jan
How will the potential waterfront residents cope with 6 months of high winds, rain and stormy weather? Not to mention the walk to work into the town centre.
Douglas Bisson
My family came to Jersey from Normandy in 1313. I was born in Canada, but tried living in Jersey on and off for the last 12 years. I love Jersey, but I am ashamed of the place and what the islanders are allowing to happen there. I come from a family with a long established history there, but was never allowed to obtain a suitable job there, yet I know a Polish girl who has been there less than 5 years who now has a good job in a bank. Everything is about money, and the island is loosing it's identity.
carol
The concensus is to build high rise apartments. This is Jersey not Australia. The taller the building the smaller the apartments are. Nothing worse than feeling hemmed in. If there has to be a necessity for these type of flats, then reduce the floors by 3 or 4 eve. Be nice to see beyond high rise buildings! The town is poorly constructed, with less parking than ever. Disabled drivers have less spaces to choose from, that is providing that someone hasn't illegally parked there first. If most people want Malls, then include that with the town. Bring back park & ride, it worked before, running every 10 mins or so, and it reduces the cost of parking fines, and headaches of where to park in the first place! considerably.
Tristan
Go for it, Tourism has been suffering lately, a new "mall" type place will put Jersey back on the map for day-trippers and holiday makers alike
Ahmed Mukalazi Kalumba - South Africa
The world today needs architects, who are innovative. This idea is good and adds on the scenic beauty of Jersey, which turns out to be beneficial by attracting for tourists and leisure purposes. Plz pursue it.
Paul Rousseau
The British experience tell us that out of town development kills the centre. Do you really want a dead town centre with all the "glamourous" shopping at the new front? And the extra traffic. It's just money making, nothing more. The planning authorities should be ashamed of the despoilation of a beautiful island. That will be their legacy
natasha Jones
I was looking for something interesting on the web and saw this awful looking development. I hope you are not thinking of ruining jersey with it!
susan e
what has happened to jersey my beloved place for over 20 years. now it is getting tackier, dirtier (st helier). i have noticed massive changes over the years, and not for the better. the few jersey people left are losing their heritage. it is so very very sad.
bill clinton
wow koolness mans
Lotta Butler
This tower is a disgust to Jersey. People say the youth of Jersey don't care - but they do!
luke
good idea however not on the waterfront.
Jed Le Rou茅
I think that their should be high rise, but only if we can manage to build the tallest builing in the world. Otherwise, what is the point
Gemma Hill
At the end of the day, whats the purpose of this? Its all very well jersey looking nice, but from what i know people are buying abroad to try and get out of this dying economy, unless this is going to be advantageous to the people of Jersey which i doubt it will dont bother.
In the 80's there was such a scarcity of houses now if u open the JEP its filled with propertys for sale and they want to build more?
O yes they look very nice when there built but give it 5 years they will look tacky and probably be falling down due to poor standards to which they are built, probably pre-fab, and as for investment purposes there is absolutely no potentail for these buildings.
Although Jersey population is steady it is probably due to influx of immigrants which cant buy for the next 16 yrs anyway and certainly wouldnt be able to afford the stupid prices that these apartments cost.
Im sure from what i heard jersey has enough problems trying to offload the apartments that exist at present so why on earth build more, Jersey could spend this money else where such as revamping the fort regent site or increasing the tourism activitys available coz if i didnt live in Jersey id never visit, firstly coz of the ridiculous air fares but the states have sucked the life out of everything that made jersey pleasurable.
Come on guys we dont need more competition in terms of property its not fair on current home owners, because as we all know if there is a lack of demand then prices begin to fall. Dont do this to island if you have any respect for it and the people who were born and bred in jersey.
mr du few
it should be geresh
samuel
i think it will be a good idea, but will it make our island look like capital city or capital zero
Simon Barnaby
Plans look great. Regeneration a good idea. We have gone far enough already to stop here, and the countryside will remain unchange at only a 10 minute drive.
Auld Lang Syne
Change is not always good but good-faith participation in honest debate IS always good.
Apathy is an insult to freedom of speech, an impediment to progress and a conduit for extremism.
When people care enough to debate, issues remain under scrutiny and the prospect for positive change remains alive.
Whatever the outcome of the development at the waterfront; those that participated in the debate should be respected.
nostranotconfused
my last posting:
I suspect this has been my point all along; I am prepared to open my eyes to architecture; I am prepared to allow myself to be persuaded rather than spend my life in jaundiced prejudice. This is not confusion -in fact, it is the very point of developing an intelligent approach to life; open to new ideas and new concepts, allowing other people to persuade, other arguments to be heard. The waterfront is just an illustration of my point - we are pre-disposed to prejudice.
Nostradamus signing off.
Ryan (Host)
Thank you to everyone for taking part in this discussion it's been ... interesting!
You're free to continue the debate here but you might want to think about heading over to our new Message Boards where you won't have to wait several hours and sometimes a day+ for your post to appear.
Registration takes about two minutes and asks for the minumum amount of info as possible.
Confused about architecture
Some confusion here?
You stated "Looking forward to checking out some art deco architecture"
You then stated " Im actually not a great fan of art deco" (sic).
I used to be indecisive but now I am not so sure?
Apologies
I am sorry you feel "abused".
Perhaps you are the victim of your own personality and should have more closely studied the self-healing books you recommend.
Miami should not form the basis for Jersey's architectural style. Jersey has its own style and should retain that.
Good taste and appropriate style will always outlast "flash".
nostradecofan
Im actually not a great fan of art deco; nor anything to do with whatever confronts me in Miami next week; I was simply pointing out that style and taste varies over time and what some may not appreciate now- may be appreciated on reflection at a later date.
Being abused by you with regard to my education is indeed quite funny; as Margaret Thatcher said "its like being savaged by a dead sheep". You obviously have an issue with your own status which is why you write about this rather than the architecture of the waterfront. I can recommend sone very good books on self healing.
Art Deco for Jersey
I doubt whether the "art deco" style of Florida (e.g. South Beach) would suit Jersey.
The "art deco" buildings of that area were, in large measure, dilapidated apartment buildings that were already there and simply renovated and painted in pastel colours.
This hardly qualifies as "groundbreaking".
Trying to emulate this style in Jersey would probably be entirely out of context; although not to someone that is apparently a fan of "flash buildings".
Groundbreaker
You are indeed fortunate to be leaving behind the gloomy Jersey weather; although the Hurricane Season in Florida continues until the end of November.
I perceive no personal slights in reviewing your posts. There is, however, no intellectual argument, you were simply wrong.
Your spelling and syntax simply reveal a poor education.
On that topic, perhaps you should not use the word "cleverer". That word, like "Ghurkin" does not exist and could give readers the idea that you are not very bright.
Bon Voyage
spellchecker
You can spell it Ghurkin or Gherkin - although the building is referred to as the latter
nostraspellcheck
Unfortunately, you appear more concerned about personal slights than the merits of any intellectual argument; Einstein couldn't spell either - a computer can spell check but can't think - does that make it cleverer than Einstein? Your arguments are pointless to the discussion so perhaps you should be a politican.
Keeping to the point -one hurricane in over two hundred years is a statistical irrelevance - a few trees got knocked down but we didnt have hundreds of people stranded in hotels without food or water in stinking sewage. Despite this, I am heading off to Florida next week as my globetrotting must continue!
Looking forward to checking out some art deco architecture which, at the time, was despised by many - I hope Jerseys waterfront will one day be considered in the same 'groundbreaking' class.
nostrasmug
Of course Jersey is hurricane-free, oh wise "globe-trotter"...
On 16th. October, 1987, 110 mph (177 km/h) winds hit Jersey...that's a Category Two (actually 1 mph short of a Category Three) hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale.
When you mention "Ghurkin" perhaps you are referring to a "Gherkin"..see Concise Oxford Dictionary.?
People might suspect that you are not very bright but you insist on proving that fact, in writing and in public.
You appear to be almost over-qualified to be a Jersey politician.
nostrahurricane free
when we were discussing the merits of jersey, did i forget to mention that we are hurricane free? I have just spent the afternoon surveying our beautiful coastline on a sunny and warm afternoon. Whats it like in Mexico?
Anyway, this debate has gone a little flat since I last wrote so here we go:
Dandara are adding housing stock to the island. For those who ask "who will buy them" - thats a commercial decision for dandara; not for you. Jersey has spen years bemoaning rising house prices and the last e-mail has indicated its tricky to sell - hurray! That removes upward pressure on prices which is good for all people trying to get on the ladder.
The waterfornt is looking better and better; the JFSC are moving there as a financial district is forming. Cool. Big money and flash buildings. The old forum site will soon be known as the old finance industry site!
The architecture issue has died down a little; I presume most readers just accepted my argument that we need to embrace change. For anyone who has driven towards the city will tell you; the Ghurkin is a masterpiece landmark and the more of this stuff the better.
A few political messages hit the site; bizarre given the debate is about the waterfront - but if Stuart Syvret makes the top; we might as well turn the lights off now. Hes a great politician, because he asks many of the right questions - he just needs to learn the appropriate place and time to ask them.
Frank is our Ronald Reagan - a good figurehead who will allow the brains behind him to tell him what to say without actually thinking too much for himself. Perfect.
Ozouf is the best bet; a "rocky horror" version of Tony Blair; I wonder what he thinks of the waterfront.
I hope this stimulates some discussion!
Tony
Thanks Dandara!
It`s because of you i can`t sell my two bedroom flat?why don`t you redevelope existing properties instead of knocking them down and building new. i hope dandara will suffer like i have in the last two years trying to sell my flat and move on to another step of the ladder..
Apathy
Is apathy concerning such topics allowing Jersey to wither away to nothing..?
Who cares..?
Clever Ron
See, at last, someone's got the right idea..."just build the stupid towers, show some ambition".
Now you know why they built the "Gherkin" tower in London..it was for ambition.
Go ahead Jersey, build a "stupid tower" (maybe shaped like a turnip)and show some ambition too.
London Ron
Do you lot just whinge all the time? Perhaps instead of whinging pommes it should now be whinging crapauds. Just build the stupid towers, show some ambition. Jersey is like a child with attention deficit disorder, if you only found a way to apply yourselves properly then you could acheive great things. As it is your just a bunch of whingers on any issue and nothing ever gets done!
Reality
Of course you can not just throw out unwanted workers, especially those citizens of other countries, such as Portugal, who have settled in the Island after years of being exploited.
They have earned their right to be an integral and permanent part of Jersey society.
As for seasonal workers, they will continue to live in "steerage" with no rights. Their presence will, as always, be determined by the demands of the Island's economy.
Jersey's reality is probably closest represented by Jersey circa 1960. The Island's economic future depends upon its natural resources now that tourism and finance have shrunk and continue to decline.
Aghast
Both plans had more vision than anything proposed in Jersey in recent years - apart from maybe the 'bridge to France' idea, and I suspect that Dandara and Crossland did their sums a little more carefully than those who proposed the bridge. Sadly its the cynical 'can't do won't do' brigade in Jersey that have shouted loudest and the Island has lost out as a result. One day so called middle Jersey will learn that it can't have its cake and eat it. If you want to cut the population down and stop all building work then perhaps you should call for the long delayed human rights law to be scrapped before frog marching all those 'non-locals' who can't speak Jerriais to the port and revert to the good old days before the last war. Be careful what you wish for folks...
Reply to Roderick
The Island 30/40 years ago had a source of large-scale tourist volumes which no longer exists. There is now a much larger number of competing resorts and they offer lower room rates, food and drink prices as well as a tourist-oriented infrastructure (in most cases).
Travel to these resorts is not much more costly than the cost of travelling to Jersey.
Charter companies and tour operators were really never welcomed in Jersey and that may come back to haunt the Island.
Manufacturing as it was 30/40 years ago has gone. Can't think of any financial incentive for someone to invest in manufacturing on the Island, given the high cost of labour and additional transportation costs of raw materials and finished goods(to and from the Island).
The price of property was driven by the finance industry. As that demand drops, the price of property is likely to drop. Local people will be unlikely to earn sufficient to pay the high cost of housing.
When it becomes apparent that the prices are sliding, I anticipate that this will create even more momentum downwards as people sell to shed long-term debt, as all the equity in their property vanishes.
As for the agriculture, the EU now has member countries, with equal access to the market, that have climates condusive to growing without energy costs as well as paying low wages. Jersey can not compete on either fundamental cost.
Time to take stock and make realistic plans, better late than never, eh.?
Roderick
It has suddenly occurred to me that, if Jersey loses its finance industry, the island's economic structure almost will return to what it used to be 30/40 years ago.
The service sector of the economy will naturally contribute less to the local budget; tourism and agriculture will thus constitute the backbone of the local economy.
Many islanders may not realise that many of the low paid jobs currently being undertaken by Southern and Eastern European immigrant workers will need to be done by locals.
I am convinced that the above-mentioned immigrants will constitute therefore a liability to the local economy and not an asset, which will possibly lead to xenophobia and restrictive legislation.
The island's population will be significantly reduced, as "superfulous outsiders" leave the island.
Property prices will collapse, leaving many islanders in negative equity.
If the above prognosis appears negative, the truth is that this may well happen. What the States need to do is prepare themselves well in advance of the loss of finance in order that other sectors of the economy may contribute to the island's social and economic well-being.
I am currently residing on the mainland, and I would like to return to the island, but I am too scared to do so.
For donkey's years the local media have been lambasting the States for "putting all the eggs in one basket."
All one has to do is look at the case of other societies where excessive dependence on one source of revenue has left the economy in vulnerability. Take the case of Venezuela : when oil and bauxite prices collapsed in 1982, the economy collapsed...
Jersey Tourism
It's okay, everyone can relax about the future of tourism in Jersey.... you're future is in good hands.
Jersey Tourism has won the gold medal (in the U.S., which has to be a key market) and boasts that it shows "the strength of the winter season in Jersey"...!!
Okay then, problem solved... get spending on more Lilliputian projects...I'm okay, you're okay...!!
My apologies, I had incorrectly assumed that Jersey's economy was in the toilet...silly me..!!
Trala
Post Script To Brands
Your speculation about the possibility of Jersey "going it alone" to avoid strictures imposed by affiliations to the United Kingdom and/or the E.U., may indeed leave the Island free to pursue an autonomous offshore policy.
Sadly, there are other autonomous offshore jurisdictions that have also undergone international scrutiny with the ultimate intent to remove their favoured-tax status. These jurisdictions (such as The Bahamas) have begun to look anew at their tourism assets.
The offshore industry is a powerful and addictive drug to small economies....basically lots of money for nothing and a dangerous illusion of power.
Time to get creative Jersey...while you can. This is probably not the time to expend precious capital on projects that have no direct bearing upon future revenues.
Reply to Brands
I respect your concern for the Island, in stark contrast to the majority of the other "ostrich-like" postings.
The foundation stone to solving a problem is to acknowledge honestly that a problem exists.
To sneer and be complacent or unjustifiably arrogant only compounds the problem(s).
The Island has natural beauty and some haute cuisine. It could, if it so chose, restore the former duty-free status. These attributes, if coupled with facilities to cater to cruise ships, may be a start.
The island of St. Thomas and New Providence (Bahamas) have little to offer that Jersey could not match (especially cuisine)but they DO cater to cruise ships. Some islands in the Caribbean do not have deep water harbours and have "stand-off" anchorages then ferry the passengers ashore.
The usual cruise ship attractions may not apply (sunshine and exotic ports of call) BUT a cruise that was aimed at the gourmet, taking in the Channel Islands and St. Malo to La Rochelle...elegant and sumptuous.
I see a market that is analagous to the ocean-going equivalent of the Orient Express.
I was once advised that if you try, you could fail BUT if you do not try, you will surely fail..!!
Jersey needs to get committed to its future NOW and that future can not be the same as its past.
Habitot
Brands
To Hong Kong and Jersey :
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm convinced that the States will attempt to strengthen social, cultural and economic ties with Normandy; although I very much doubt that this will compensate adequately for the demise of finance.
The other alternative is arguably even more frightening, but it is a hypothesis which has already been suggested by a local senator ( cannot recall the surname.) The possibility that I am referring to is political secession from the UK. This would change the island's political status from UK national dependency/crown protectorate to independent nation-state.
I reiterate that I would not want this to happen, but I am convinced that many islanders would consider going down this path if it was the only way to avoid losing the finance industry.
If undependence did occur Jersey would be left in a similar role to Monaco or Liechtenstein.
I only hope that EU member Luxembourg fights hammer and tongs to retain its finance industry. Perhaps this way the Channel Islands, Isle of Man and Gibraltar could maintain their status and trade links with EU and nations from other regions.
This is a critically important debate. I wonder how many states members are reading our postings...?
not scare-mongering
Not intent on scare-mongering. Worked in finance industry in Jersey from 1970. Saw the growth from "ground zero" and now see the evident decline.
Factors outside the Island's control are sadly likely to further diminish the offshore role of Jersey.
Financial Task Force (FATF)and Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development (OECD) remain committed to the eventual removal of all offshore finance centres.
Governments are also adopting effective strategies explicitly aimed at defeating the protection of offshore jurisdictions.
Jersey has, I believe, agreed to full disclosure with the Inland Revenue and general information-sharing with EU nations; this makes it very difficult to sustain offshore secrecy.
The cost of housing and absence of infrastructure has no doubt influenced the decision of some finance houses to reduce or withdraw in favour of cheaper and more efficient "outsourcing". I sincerely believe Jersey will see a significant reduction in the finance industry.
60% of the Island's revenues was the figure you mentioned from that industry; that's a lot of eggs in one basket.
What's "Plan B" I wonder..?
brands
To Hong Kong and Jersey :
Your chronological analysis of the island's economy is correct. However, you stress that finance will leave Jersey in five years. Can you base this assumption on concrete evidence, or are you simply scare-mongering?
If Jersey lost its finance industry, it would lose 60% of its budget..economically and socially, it would be a complete disaster!
Hong Kong and Jersey
Population in Hong Kong (is it 4.5 million?) population Jersey (is it 85,000?).
Numbers of wealthy (those with disposable income) in Hong Kong versus Jersey...??
Number of air travellers visiting Hong Kong versus Jersey...?
The comparison is (and always was) apples and oranges...irrelevant.
Jersey is essentially a farming community with a low-key fishing "industry".
Jersey temporarily gained from tourists that were tired of Blackpool and the Isle of Man and this coincided with available air travel in the early sixties. That has now changed, never to return.
Then the finance industry came in the early seventies and will be gone in the next five years.
These proposed buildings would simply be epitaphs to what what was only a dream.
NostralivedinHongKong
Jersey is not Hong Kong! It will never be as dynamic as Hong Kong (come on the place has 6 million people for crying out loud). Hong Kong is great in its own right and has fantastic man made scenary, but having lived there for two years there is nothing that the local residents have more pride in than their countryside and access to the numerous beaches (some coincidentaly on the other side of Hong Kong island, the one with all the tall buildings). In other words have pride in what you have, not what you don't.
nostra
Keep the comments to the issue; no on is saying taht this alone will be the answer; no one is saying the world will travel to Jersey to see it, no one is saying that it will make us compete with many of the best known cities in the world.
The only question is, will a reasonably attractive public space, high quality accommodation, additional high end retail outlets and a harbour side cafe/bar ambience IMPROVE what we currently offer? YES.
Do we all agree about the architecture -NO; but people will rarely have a consensus
so there is no point even trying.
Does it SPOIL jersey; absolutely not; it affects a tiny proportion of the island; the rest remains untouched. Is it MORE LIKELY to attract people who spend than the so called 'bucket and spade brigade'? Of course.
Is it Public money being wasted? No-so the risk of it being a bad call lies with the investors. And everyones opinion matters; even if it adds a perspective from inside Jersey, a rare visitor, a local, or even a young, rich ,well travelled beauty like me. Get a sense of humour too!
nostrahongkong
I have spent this evening looking at Hong Kong from the top of the mountain. Awesome skyscrapers! Three floors of fab shopping under my 5 star hotel. C'mon Jersey its time to build!
Jim won't fix it
And another thing Craig, I would not go to London just to see the Gherkin and if I go to New York it is to see many places not just the Empire State building. One building (okay two) are not going to bring the tourists flooding back.
Jim won't fix it
Oh people would flock to Jersey to see these buildings would they? Excuse me but for all your excitement what is proposed is nothing to write home about in the first place! To me the buildings look like any other residential development in the docklands of London! In other words they may look great on a Jersey scale but they are not anything special on a British let alone worldwide scale!
Reply to Ryan (host)
Jersey also has a few, excellent restaurants and truly lovely beauty spots. It undoubtedly has musical entertainment too; as you promote regularly on your webpage.
Living in Jersey is, however, a different concept to tourism. The comments I offer are subjective and relative to other resorts with which Jersey competes.
Jersey does NOT cater to tourists, it does NOT have a "holiday atmosphere" it has NO significant attractions, it is NOT served by major airports any longer. The majority of Jersey buildings ARE drab and the cost of accommodation plus dining IS overpriced by comparison to other resorts chosen by U.K. tourists.
Wish it wasn't so...and the Tourism Committee probably does too..?
nostradreamus
Of course you have... of course you are a "globe trotter". It shows every time you make a comment.
Rob Mannel
I'm not a Jersey resident but do visit the island regulaly. Although the waterfront is in need of urgent attention I would be wary of over-modernising as I don't feel it would sit well with the islands image. Some of the Waterfront buildings that are already there look awful, i.e. the blue and white monstrosities that I believe are flats. Just remember, architects don't always now best. Let the islanders decide.
nostratraveller
Actually been to most places in the conde naste top 100 list of places to visit; do approximately 50,000 miles a year in big planes and have stayed in many great and famous hotels. I value Jersey for many things, which is why I have a home here, and the waterfront is small step in the right direction; its not the answer -but it is a step towards a future. I hate the attitude that because we haven't done well in the past, we cant do well in the future. Be bold, make it stunning; well done Tom and Carla - lets give Jersey a chance to do something; its not even public money-so trust those who are putting up their own cash.
Steve
Jersey is naturally a very conservative island. Now is the time to be bold and radical. I am a Jerseyman, very proud to be one and very proud of my island.
However at the moment the entrance to St. Helier is dire with the town being anywhere you might see in the UK. There is no natural beauty within our main town to spoil.
Get on with the new developments, Jersey may not get another chance! At least the moaners will have something to talk about for years to come!
Mr Bear
I read with interest an article in yesterdays Times about proposed developments in Brighton. Someone commented that Brighton was inundated with tourists!
Somewhere along the line Jersey has lost the plot and Tourisms marketing efforts over the last decade have been totally innefective.
Jersey needs to do something innovative and this development is needed. Wake up Jersey, get serious if you want a reason for people to visit this beautiful Island. The tourism industry has changed dramatically over the last 20 years and Jersey has failed to keep up.
Craig Brown
Actually people would flock to Jersey because of a swish building. The "gurkin" building in London has become famous, as have several tall buildings in New York, and so have the twin towers in Kuala Lumper. So actually tall iconic buildings can work and Eric has made and excellent effort to link the buildings strongly with the island. SO STOP THREATING OVER THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENTS APPARENTLY GOING TO GOBBLE UP ALL THE LISTED BUILDINGS OF JERSEY FOR GOODNESS SAKE!
Craig Brown
It is time that the younger generation have a say for once in a while about what happens on the island. It will be us who have to live with the choice made in the end. Nobody wants a mediocre waterfront, which is nice to go to but not inspiring, iconic or different.
JUST AVERAGE! HOW AWFUL! maybe those who are protesting against the development would like to put there own money into the waterfront instead of slating Mr. Crossland who has put time and money into this project or Mr. Khune, a person we should be honoured is designing a major chunk of our waterfront.
What do people think will attract tourists to this island and improve our lifestyle a cafe? a refurbished toilet? No maybe a samll museum!!
Come on Jersey we are losing too great an opportunity just once in a lifetime! Don't make it dull. You may just realise that you may like the end result with greater height!
change for the sake of change
If the debate is limited to whether St. Helier would look better with the development, the answer is probably yes, IF other similar developments were undertaken.
Would the development trigger other similar developments...the answer is probably no; since the uncertain economic future of Jersey is unlikely to entice that level of investment.
Would the development propel Jersey into the 21st. century..the answer is no but it might make it look like it.
Would the development make any difference to tourism..how, with fewer tourists spending less money per capita.
Why not invest the money in a harbour capable of handling cruise ships and also return Jersey to "duty free" status.
Give tourists something worthwhile. Toss out all your "kiss me quick" hats and "I've been to Jersey" teeshirts and last year's Jersey cream toffee. THAT would at least be a step towards the 21st. century.
Until then, the Tourism Committee (with its 1950's approach) is fishing in the wrong pond with the wrong bait.
Jersey rox
are we turning into hong kong?!
Karen White
I despair at the idea that we should compete with the greatest cities in the world. Our island has finite boundaries and therefore a limited audience to use the promised facilities.
Maintenance costs are high and I often see blocks when travelling that become run down once they have past their first bloom and unlike quality architecture do not improve with age. We are also being offered various facilities a museum/theatre etc. Unfortunately we cannot maintain and fully utilise the facilities we already have (Opera House/Fort Regent and Archive Centre). Please don't let us be wooed by fantasic 'opportunities which cannot be sustained.
Furhtermore few people aspire to actually living in an appartment block and view this as a stepping stone to better things.
Ryan (Host)
Thanks everyone for all your brilliant comments and for keeping this great debate going.
Slightly off topic for second - I just want to respond to the comment by Same Old Stuff about Jersey being Grey and going to bed early.
Yes clubs close at around 2.30am (earlier than mainland Europe) but to say Jersey is dull is just ... well wrong.
The island has a thriving live music scene (look at our entertainment pages) and top quality club scene with promoters regularly bringing world class DJs over.
Colin Murray from Radio 1 recently described Jersey as one of the coolest places in Britain on his show.
At Jersey Live we had some of the biggest bands in the world right now play in the island, a local promoter is planning a weekly gig with the top up and coming bands ... and ... Jersey has some of the best new bands around.
So say what you like about the architecture and the cost (you can get here for less than 拢50 each) but don't complain about the nightlife.
Tom
I agree with Carla, all cities/towns/islands evolve, and with this comes change. What everyone has failed to notice is that a reputable international architect has proposed an exciting design for an island that (to be honest) no-one knows about or cares about outside of the UK.
This debate is very similar to the time when Will Alsop designed La Fregate, Alsop is now a world famous architect/painter who is getting commisions everywhere (and praise). As soon as the designs for la fregate were revealed most islanders hated it.
I think most islanders are scared of change, we are so used to what we see everyday that anything different, unique or involves a degree of exciting risk will seem absurd. I think its great that Jersey is being given this opportunity to prove that its willing to take a brave step to enhance the quality of life and architecture in the island.
same old stuff
This debate does seem analagous to the passengers on the "Titanic" squabbling about whether the main course should be meat or fish.
Air travel IS required to get to Jersey and the costs of travel to the Island ARE high compared to resorts such as The Canary Islands. Volumes drive prices and Jersey can not create the volumes to get cheap fares.
Blame the latitude not the attitude. The weather is not the best, so when people can not use the beaches, where are they to go, what are they to do..?
There are no means of getting about on the Island for tourists, since there is not a viable public transportation system. Hire cars choke the roads and cost a fortune.
Jersey used to tout itself as the "continental experience with the familiarity of being at home". Well, jellied eels, warm beer and Tantivy bus rides just don't make the grade.
Tourists have simply more options than they used to, they are more savvy and demand more "bang for their buck".
Tourists flock to resorts with great weather, cheap food and booze, clubs and reasonably-priced, decent quality "al fresco" dining and an overall "holiday atmosphere".
No-one wants an austere, overpriced, grey place which goes to bed early and regards visitors as a necessary evil.
These are old, old issues that have remained unaddressed for years.
Jersey, you reap what you sow.
Richard
It is a great idea. We finally need to do something different and striking on the watrfront...Do people just want our tourist industry to wither away?
JDA
It's alright for all you people saying yes to building this horrid building, but i wonder how many of you are actually from jersey ????????????????
One thing a few friends and i were debating was if these bloody awful towers get built we can say goodbye to the jersey battle of britian air display, which has been in jersey for a lot longer then half of us have been alive, i think that would be appaling and an insult to all the people that display honours, who lost there lives in the battle of britian, are these pathetic buildings more important than that.
If the states think it is then they need a good bringing down to earth with a very large bang.
Wake up for god's sake and realise we do not wnat this bloody building.
Carla
Cities evolve, the most interesting towns and cities have a blend of old and new. The simple fact is that todays 'new' will be old in 50 years. You can't and shouldn't even try to hold back the clock. Jersey needs new and exiting designs
brands
Goodness! - this has developed into a heated debate, which in many respects is a good thing.
I reiterate that, to my mind, the project will be good for the island; it will be the centrepiece of a thoroughly modern waterfront development.
The island will not lose its charm as a result of this particular project - all one needs to do is drive out of St.Helier ( which I firmly believe is a great town compared to a lot of the visually-deprived conurbations on the mainland) in order to recapture some wonderful Jersey countryside, with beaches, reservoir walks etc.
As for St.Helier itself, I recommend that its detractors go up to the Fort Regent complex ( which used to be Europe's best indoor entertainment centre) and take a look at the town from the Fort's South West tip - it looks fantastic! Compare it to the filth and degradation of many mainland towns - you hardly see any litter on the pavements(many are still of granite!!!), nor any grafitti on the walls, nor hoardes of dubious characters accosting you with strange proposals or begging for alms.
Whilst I agree that the States have erred by putting all of the eggs into the same basket, i.e finance, there is still a solution for tourism : it will need to metamorphose in order to get more tourists, old and new, back to the island.
In order to achieve a regeneration of the tourist industry the States will need to ruthlessly control inflation. This will ensure that the island will not become too expensive in the long-term( although I acknowledge that it already has for a lot of folk...)
Secondly, give visitors more than simply great beaches, shopping and restaurants. I remember as a child Tantivy used to bus LOADS of mainlanders and foreigners alike to Caeser's Palace. Whatever happened to to the Lido de France? - that was a great venue, too. Ditto the Inn on the Park, demolished to create condominiums for the wealthy...
Having a fishmonger to run tourism is not the ideal way of doing things; it is symptomatic of a rather dotty and nepotistic system of government... I remember that the top banana of a UK tour operator used to live on the island ( was it Airtours?).
He pointed out years ago that the island's tourism had to modernise in order for the island to remain a viable tourist destination. I wonder if the States would have the insight to actually employ this gentleman's services and spearhead a committee that would effectively achieve what he is suggesting himself... modernisation - it's a great word!
Just Curious
Mr. Houghton may have a point. St. Paul's Cathedral was completed in 1710 and here were are, nearly three humdred years later, glad to have the building.
So build away, critics be damned and, in about three hundred years, people may indeed praise the proposed development.
Of course, this development (in of itself) will probably have zero impact upon the Island's economy, apart from the non-taxpaying casual labourers that will do the construction before moving on.
What might it do for tourism? Well that depends upon whether or not there are actually any tourists?
Still, if it looks good then that's what really matters..duh!!
Lorraine
The plans do look great but I just don't see why there seems to be a need to block out the stunning view of the bay.
Surely that is so much more unique than any building? Also you can't rely on a few modern buildings to improve the island. Money could be spent on so many other things to improve island life starting first with the people themselves.
More and more people are suffering in Jersey and no matter how many posh buildings you put up to hide this fact these people will still be there. People in Jersey want to be proud of their island. If your not proud and respectful of the people you will never truly improve it.
Old Ethel
I hate all these modern builings - what's wrong with mud huts like we used to have
Jersey Bean
If its not granite - I don't like it!
Rob
It's good - build it, full stop.
Richard Houghton
Having read the comments ( from the start) its a shame that so many prats have ( as usual) ruined a sensible debate - The scheme looks great - has anybody told the geriatric complainers that St.Pauls Cathedral was dubbed 'far too modern' and would ruin London's skyline when the plans were first announced!
epilogue
nostradamus seems confused about who submitted what posts (muppet references?) whilst posting puerile comments that have no bearing upon the topic or fact.
It is obvious that nostradamus has not travelled nor developed the maturity or sophistication to avoid blurting out total nonsense.
Anyone that has spent any time travelling at the level belittled by nostradamus knows that he has NOT actually been anywhere (except in his own mind) and creates his own reality to compensate.
It is hilarious, nostradamus presuming to question whether someone that has lived in San Francisco, Vancouver and Palm Beach, whether they understand "HIP"...??
nostradamus would not recognize "HIP" if it sat on him.... and the poster that accused him of being a Muppet was being generous.
Reality check nostradamus ... you live on a tiny island (9 miles wide by 5 miles long). This the size and scope of your world. You are a passenger in life and sitting at the back of the bus.
All the architectural miracles in the world will not change what Jersey is.
To the Muppet
Why go to Jersey when you can go to Brighton or Bournemouth by train in the same amount of time from London or fly cheaply to Newquay or Poole which are both starting to attract higher spenders and have just as good beaches and restaurants as Jersey?
Nostradumbass
So we return to the key point of your argument in favour of the high rise buildings in St. Helier...that Jersey is close to London and this makes Jersey a natural target for "young, beautiful and loaded" (whatever that means in your world).
Perhaps a weekend in the Cotswolds at Le Manoir Aux Quatre Saisons or the Bibury Court is more appealing to the "young, beautiful and loaded".
Newsflash... London isn't bad either (of course it lacks the action of St. Ouen).
When you imply that someone living by The Gulf of Mexico must necessarily eat Mexican food... well that is just retarded..!!
It is apparent that you might benefit by leaving the Island for a while... get to see the world.
Jersey Ann
I think the idea is awful, Jersey is too small for this kind of project. Aim for something smaller if you must, but please don't chnage Jersey too much, it is a beautiful island, and I would like to recognise it when I come home.
pompous nostradamus
Im not saying that rich people are pompous; Im saying that the type of person who enjoys 'the pomp' of the George V in Paris shouldnt be our target audience; wealthy young people care more about style and service quality than gold leaf on high ceilings -hence the popularity of places like Babington.
Young beautiful and loaded muppet
OK lets start again; try limiting your answer to places within a forty five minute flight from London. Everywhere you mention misses the point; Tahiti and Fiji?!!! Cannes Nice and the Lido in Venice are dull stretches of overcrowded beaches. Who wants 'tourist attractions' anyway? Let me repeat for the hard of thinking; short break, long week end, leave London at 5.30, sitting in a fab restaurant by 8. With (in future) nice Hotels, great shops, and five or 6 great (not grand) restaurants.
Now come back with the competitors and you will understand the argument. Even gonzo would see that you have missed the point. Too much mexican food perhaps?!
My criteria - young rich and loaded dont really care for the pomp of the Hotels you name; havent you heard of HIP Hotels? Small, well designed, luxurious; we may not have too many -but there are some suprising Jewels in Jersey already. The Waterfront will encourage others to move upmarket and hey presto.
mass debater
IF someone agrees with your point of view, no matter how lame or ill-informed, they are okay. BUT if someone has a differing point of view, they are negative..?
This a common method of stifling honest debate. If someone merely questions racial or gay issues, they are often branded "racist" or "homophobes". On Jersey, any opinion contrary to the mainstream is considered almost heresy. This trend of not allowing the facts or reality to influence a history of hubris, prejudice and self-deception is probably the root cause for Jersey's plight.
Yes, yes I know....what plight...??
memory lane
Jersey (in the 60's) WAS a premier resort. The airport traffic was among the highest density in Europe and hotel occupancy rates were sky-high. There were shows at night for the tourists and locals alike and the cost of drinks and tobacco was half that of the U.K.
Jersey shops were duty free and there was a discernble margin between the cost of jewellery and high value watches (such as Rolex)in Jersey versus other countries. The French used to flock to De Gruchy often to buy cashmere at (to them) bargain prices. The Island had its own identity and charm...
THEN....
The Island got infected by delusions of grandeur, fueled by the finance industry. It ended up looking like a diluted version of Portsmouth, prices rose and they (THEY) brought in a zero-growth policy.
The large hotels have been demolished and/or converted into flats. Air travel to and from the Island is virtually no more. There are no Summer shows full of tourists having a great time and the pavements are no longer full of people on warm Summer nights.
The Island got accustomed to just taking money from tourists without reinvesting in infrastructure or a viable marketing strategy. Their tourists of the 60's are now dead and no-one bothered to create anything that could appeal to today's tourists. The head of tourism for many years was a fishmonger for pity's sake....
In those interim years, other resorts DID invest and are now seeing the tourists Jersey might have had.
Build all the fancy buildings you want... it's over..!!
notsofast nostradamus
By what criteria are you able to draw the sweeping distinction between, in your words, "pompous rich people" and "beautiful, young and loaded"..??
If you are now trying to pitch Jersey's beaches against other resorts, I would throw in Maui (Kaanapaali Beach, St. Johns (Caneel Bay), St. Thomas (Megans Bay). I expect Cannes and Nice or the Lido in Venice would also favourably compare to Jersey. No need to mention Tahiti or Fiji...!
I now live by the Gulf of Mexico and have white sand and azure blue ocean... a far cry from St. Ouens, St. Brelades, Grouville or any of the other Jersey beaches.
Jersey has invested NOTHING in enhancing its beach resources. The beaches on Jersey are largely barren without tourist attractions. Raw sewage goes into St. Aubins Bay, does it not..?
It is this unjustified "superiority complex" that plagues Jersey and always did. The expression "if you don't like it, the mail boat leaves in the morning" continues to resonate the xenophobic Jersey attitude. They want the money (evidenced by your posts) but NOT the ghastly grockles.
Back on topic.... to assume that building a couple of high-rise buildings in an otherwise tacky town will draw the "beautiful, young and loaded" is probably naive.
You are a muppet
Look you muppet, Dubai is in a completely different class to Jersey. It has world leading hotels which Jersey does not. The Burgh al Arab (the one with the sail) vs Pomme d'or? absolutely no contest, the Burgh is a 6* resort for bleeding sake, the hotels are like the ones in the tropics or the carribean, proper high quality resorts with massive swimming pools right next to a beach with year round sunshine! Dubai has fantastic beaches, all year sun, the tourism infrastructure and most importantly it is a aviation hub connecting Europe and Asia. People go there for short stop over breaks on their way to Asia. Jersey is not an aviation hub and will never attract high spending tourists flying in on a fantastic airline like Emirates in huge 747's coming in on regular numerous flights each day! Your living in a dream world!
not so negative nostradamus
You could have said the same about Dubai ten years ago -but look at it now! Its called having a vision; and having the courage to take the steps required to achieve it. Of course we are not offering the same as Paris, Monaco or Venice (although restaurants and nighlife in Venice are notoriously awful)thats not the point. The point is to offer SOMETHING which makes for a worthwhile week-end break; and NONE of the cities I mentioned have our beaches-in fact few places in the world compare and I have been to most of them! We just need the quality of Hotels and boutiques to accompany the natural offering of Jersey; I would argue that we already have some of the best cuisine -it may not be grand like the George V - but we dont want pompous rich people; beautiful, young and loaded will do fine!
notso nostradamus
Venice is on par with Monaco as is Paris. Haven't spent any time in Prague or Florence...so can not honestly comment.
You are indeed correct, Jersey is on par with Wigan, Scunthorpe and Bognor.
I am trying to remember the name(s) of the top notch store(s) on Jersey or the internationally-acclaimed restaurants of Jersey compared to Monaco, Paris or Venice. I have been fortunate enough to have stayed at the George V in Paris, Gritti Palace in Venice and both Hotel Mirabeau and Hotel Hermitage in Monaco. I have also stayed at Jersey's finest.. there is NO comparison...UNLESS I do as you suggest and use my imagination...Beam Me Up Scottie...!!
Nostradumus crime report
I forgot to mention that it is not uncommon in hotels and villas in Monaco to wake up confronted by gun wielding burglers; ask Trinnie and Susannah. Not a lot of that in Jersey!
nostradamus notnutstradamus
I am not suggesting that Jersey is better than Monaco; vencie, prague, paris, florence, barcelona; Europe is full of fantatsic places -of which Jersey is/could be one. At present we are competing at a level with Wigan, Scunthorpe and Bognor. The Waterfront will put us amongt the A list of top short hall destinations - look at the success of Dubai; just sand and shopping -but it attracts the wealthy because it has outstanding (tall!) hotels and top quality service. Lets have a Jersey equivalent of the Goodwood festival of speed, a Jersey International film festival,
a Jersey international beach sports festival. Use your imagination!
nostradamus nutstradamus
Sooo... the principal attribute of Jersey is its proximity to London... sooo wealthy people can visit the Island and have a really groovy time...whereas Monaco is not a short hop from London...! Well Dude, Jersey isn't a quick hop from Nice (7 minutes to Monaco by helicopter)or less than an hour by train from the Italian Riviera..!
What (I mean WHAT) does Jersey have to offer...are you kidding...Monaco has top quality hotels and restaurants (check the Michelin Guide, there are no greater number of highest-rated restaurants anywhere) there is the Casino, top notch stores (for your wealthy people) and great climate. The Grand Prix compared to The Battle of Flowers...mmmm. To compare Jersey to Monaco is a joke, right...? Yes, of course it IS a joke..nice one nostradamus; you had us all going there for a second, you rascal..hehe
nostradamus revisited
The reason we can be a competitor of Monaco is that Monaco is not a short hop from London;
Everyone should stop harping on about how much it costs to get here; the whole point of being rich is that you dont care how much it costs; it just needs to be easy -and Jersey can be.
For Islanders who say outsiders are pricing you out of your homes; get real. Its called economics. If you were born in Mayfair, you have to pay Mayfair prices if you choose to live there when you grow up. I am looking forward to having a Jersey equivalent of Hampstead on a Sunday; fab bars, restaurants and public spaces where we can meet friends, shop, drink, dine and generally hang out. Why will the rest of Jersey lose its character? If people want somewhere cute and cheaper; try moving to Devon.
John Featherstone USA
Great idea! I think one unit is sufficent! adjacent to this unit should be a park and a state of the art marina unlike any where else in the channel islands to deal with the enormous tide swings that Jersey has! This would also help for the sea travel and the local folks econamy! Jersey is absolutely a beautiful island!
Cheers for now
Just Curious
So they have announced that a one-bedroomed flat in Jersey costs 拢161,000 so what would a "luxury" flat in this development cost...?
More importantly, WHO will be buying these overpriced properties. Does no-one read the JEP, the Island is broke and prices MUST drop... the bubble has burst... wakey, wakey..!!
A Godel
I think this idea is awful.I have graduated recently and this type of tacky developement of the waterfront is putting me off coming home. People love Jersey because it is so unique-well it was
!I was horrified when I found out about the 10 screen cinema etc.I really think we should stop trying to copy the UK and embrace our own identity.Surely nobody agrees with this plan and if they do maybe they should go and live in the UK instead of runining the island.
Nostalgic No More
Mr. Amy's comments apply now and also applied in 1990 and 1980 (with the exception of the "tall buildings made of steel and glass").
There has NEVER been a viable public transportation system and the costs of getting to and from Jersey have ALWAYS been disproportionately high.
The prices of hotels and restaurants are ludicrously high compared to those in resorts overseas.
There are NO facilities for tourists (witness the poor creatures wandering up and down King Street in the pouring rain).
The "warm pint and fish and chips" Old Time Music Hall tourists have long since passed on. Baby Boomers don't want to sit on a barren beach with a tray of tea and scones.
If Jersey had at least invested in facilties to attract cruise ships, they may have had a chance but the folks in charge still roll out the same old attractions that existed in the days of Clary Dupre.
You reap what you sow...
Mike Amy
If they really want to attract more people to visit Jersey do they really think this will help? What do you think people look for when they come here to spend money? Tall buildings made of steel and glass, high prices, poor public transport, soulless financiers in luxury yachts, and to top it off ridiculous air ticket prices? Or are they looking for a break from all that?
The real answer is to get rid of this culture of greed, start charging realistic prices (look at the price of a taxi from the Airport to St Helier), and promote Jersey's core values of community spirit, world class food and idyllic natural beauty. Get rid of the protectionism and deregulate our economy.
P A Lee
It is too big, too high. The Waterfront is built on a rubbish tip. What is going to happen to all the old rotting babies nappies & other rubbish when they dig out the huge hole for the foundations - where will this go? They are supposed to be including 600 flats - there are hundreds of flats unsold at the moment - who is going to buy them? - I could go on for pages & pages
Absolutely Nostradamus
This is so Zen...reducing things to their basic minimum...So, why come to Jersey...???
Reality Nostradamus
Hey Nostradamus, ummm you see the problem with your idea is that it is already taken by a place called Monaco. Why on earth come to Jersey when you can go to the sunny south of France (Monaco also being a tax haven). Your plan is seriously deluded!
nostradamus
If we want to replace poor tourists who clog up our roads and use our water whilst only spending 拢3.40 on lunch for their family of 5, we need to have things to do which attract rich people for three to five day breaks. We already have loads of fab restaurants to keep a gourmet happy every mealtime for a week; so what we need is somewhere that rich people can enjoy themselves; boutique shops selling expensive wares (Louis Vuitton, Prada, Gucci, Hermes, Harvey Nicks, Ralph Lauren etc) cafes and bars overlooking big superyachts so that the rich can sip champagne, after spending obscene amounts of money in our shops whilst their partner attends some business seminar in the 5 star hotel; nothing the rich like better than prominading and parading their good fortune in front of the proletariat. Fabulous buildings, fabulous shops, fabulous bars and restaurants - and tons of money for the local economy.
Be bold and welcome them; for they bring with them lots of money and a chance to see at first hand the dysfunctionality of wealth!
Hugh Macpherson
St Helier is seriously tatty and outdated but it doesn't need this - it isn't Boston, Sydney or Cape Town - and it doesn't need to look the same. Promoted by fools and designed by idiots
stuart
im still waiting for people to recogise the genius of my proposal; the rotato potato, a thirty foot vegetable that slowly rotates, firing a spud over the St.helier skyline on the hour, every hour. It should replace the steam clock.
Peter G
Anything to cover up the disaster that is CineWorld & the Gym (Swiiming Pool is OK). I think the design is great. Dandara should consult with Mr Crossland though to make their two designs consistant with each other. I would prefer it if the towers were a little lower and
as one contrubutor mentioned, who will live in these towers. Dandara can't sell what they've built already. I suppose thats their problem as long as none of my income tax is used to subsidise all this building.
I'm leaving Jersey when I retire anyway as I do agree with others when they say that the Island has already been ruined mostly by developers and their Jersey polictian directors (no names but guess who?)who don't even live here most of the time so aren't worried about ruining the island for everyone else.
Kevin
Nick - well done and spot on
Bob
Iconic buildings is what Jersey's needs more of, I mean look how happy we all are to see Le Marais flats shooting up into the sky bringing out the natural beauty of the parish.
I'm joking of course, but I do have a point.
I'm all for building a world class development on the Waterfront... I just don't think this is it. It's basically a very tall building in a town without any, disguising the idea under words like 'iconic' is PR spin for Joe Public. What it is profitable...
Where's the use of local materials? Or influences of local architecture? It's considerations like this that make the difference. If you put the Empire States Building in Sydney Harbour it wouldn't look right simply because it's built to fit it's environment, same goes if you tried to put the Sydney Opera House in New York.
This is what the Waterfront needs to be thinking about if it wants iconic. A build by numbers block of flats probably found in every harbour around the world where developers saw a quick profit won't do.
Granted it will make a quick buck, but will it ever measure up to what Sydney Opera House or the Empire States Building has done it terms of long term money making and reputation. Will any body say to me 10 years from now, 'Oh, your from Jersey, I'd love to see the Waterfront there one day' or will we have another Le Marais that tourists have never heard of and we all pretend we don't see.
Spike
What we currently have needs "tidying up" categorically. We seem to be looking at the developments piecemeal, how about looking at all developments together and see what the front will look like with the proposed Crossland and Dandara sites side by side.
Also why on earth do we feel the need to allow "restaurants" (and I use that term extremely loosely!) such as KFC and Pizza Hut on to a prime site. I just pray that whatever the new development ends up being that the powers that be ensure it is classy, not tacky! Restaurants not american chains, cafes not fast food chains, Bean Around the World not Starbucks, individuality not brain washed american rubbish.
Nick
I lived in Jersey for the first 10 years of my life & visit every year for a relaxing break.The front of St Helier has already been ruined with amongst other things thise horrible multi coloured flats near Immigration. St Helier does not need these towers,what would it look like from the sea as tourists approach by ferry? The front should be not be built up with high rises otherwise it will look like many other seaside resorts in Europe. Any buildings should be made of local materials - granite & not steel.
Steve
well, New Jersey rocks and is very developed so maybe old crappy "Jersey" needs to get with the game.
bombass
Fact is St Helier is a mess. The Whole lot needs to be knocked down and rebuilt into 20 story sky scrappers.
Mark
Whilst I agree with everyone who states that the towers might spoil the look of the waterfront from the harbour anything that blocks, even partially, out the sight of the cineworld slab of concrete can't be all bad.
Where the states have let everyone down is by not having an intergrated development plan from day one.
Instead they have gone off on flights of fancy such as the now forgotten waterfront bridge and allowed monstrosities such as the cineworld site to go ahead.
Given that the area is already spoilt why not get some businesses in there that will provide tax revenue to make up for all the white elephants paid for in the past with our governments approval (hole under fort regent, steam clock, over sized airport etc etc etc). Rather than block the development lets spend the energy in making those responsible for the fiscal mess the island has found itself in more accountable.
Michael
Great plan...who will be the occupants..?
Glad I lived there during the sixties and seventies because whatever charm and innocence Jersey had back then was bought and paid for in the eighties, by the finance industry.
Now the "offshore party" is over...what is "Plan B"..?
From where does Jersey expect to attract tourists, what can it offer them..er, The Battle of Flowers..?
Who would invest in building a business and creating employment in Jersey with all the bureaucratic hurdles...?
You can buy property in Spain or U.S.A. for one third of the price, better weather and cheaper cost of living.
If you want to see what Jersey will look like, visit the Isle of Man.
Kevin
I agree that certain buildings throughout the world are magnificent architectural achievements but for me, it's important that Spain's style of concrete jungle like ugly tower blocks are not brought to Jersey. Jersey is not a big city which could hold some of the buildings in your list below without it looking ugly and plain ridiculous and having lived in cities in periods of my life I can assure you and everyone on this board that the way Jersey is now is the way it should stay. Quality needs to be looked at but the size of these buildings is too big to belong on an island as beautiful as ours.
Chris
So your telling me that the skyline of Manhattan is overrated, that the Empire State building is ugly? That the Burj Al Arab Hotel in Dubai (the one that looks like a sail) is overated? that the Norman Foster designed HSBC building in Hong Kong is a disaster? Jersey's problem Kev is that everytime something new gets built here, we never do it well enough and it gets stuck in the world of mediocrity (i'm thinking about the stupid steam clock and the tree thing). What places like Dubai and Hong Kong do is create outstandigly different modern buildings that become icons. In its day I am sure Elizabeth Castle stood out like a sore thumb as I suspect did the pyramids. Just because London, New York, Dubai and Hong Kong all have modern buildings, does not mean that they all look the same. In fact Kev they all look very different.
Kevin
Modern architecture gets much praise nowadays but, for me, it will never come close to the traditional stuff we see in Jersey today. I think this is a bad idea and is a case of just doing what everyone else is doing - whether it be right or wrong. Jersey has always been different for the right reasons. I really hope that isn't spoiled by a desire to be just like everywhere else. Don't be like everywhere else as everywhere else tends to be vastly overrated.
"JERSEY WONDER"
ARRR YES!
MODERNISE DEVELOP 21ST CENTURY AT LAST.
THOSE WHO DISAGREE ARE TO OLD AND SHOULD BE BURIED BY NOW,THE OLD SCHOOL FOR EXAMPLE,STICK TO THE ANTIQUES ROAD SHOW AND CROSSROADS.YOU GET MY POINT.
Carl
Does Billy work for the developers?! ;o)
SAS
We come to Jersey every year,the new waterfront scheme looks just like docklands,tall buildings and no charecter,it used to be so nice just to see Elizabeth Castle in the bay now it's dwarfed by the harbour developements
Billy
I think its a good idea and if anyone agrees i'm going to burn their house down and fart on the ashes
Andy
I'm getting a bit tired of hearing that St.Peter Port has more charm than St.Helier - yes it has obviously, but don't forget we've also got the stunning St.Aubin, Gorey and Rozel :o)
Jenny Curtis
Jersey has already run out of space to build on! That it why building up is the only way if you want to preserve the countryside. I can't believe that none of you twits can see that! That is the only way that places like Singapore have been able to preserve their countryside - which there is plenty of I assure you.
Ari
The towers are a terrible idea, there has been enough developments recently. Im all for moving forward but there must be ways of doing this without ruining the island, we are not London or any other major city and soon they will run out of space to build on!! Unfortunatly I dont think the publics concerns will make the slightest difference.
Guernsey Donkey
Jersey isn't in danger of losing it's identity because that went down the pan years ago. St Helier is just like any other town in the UK, full of multi story car parks, high rise flat...its horrible. St Peter Port has Character and beauty.
Mark
well they have ruined most of the island so might as well carry on ruining whats left glad i left the island when i left every time i go back somthings changed for the worst dont know where these planners get thier ideas from
Andy
I'm surprised that Matthew R, with all his undoubted technical acumen, can't see that the 21st century Way Forward is to make the best of use of new technologies to live in harmony with the environment - this doesn't mean stepping back in time to the hardships of centuries past. Jersey should be making the most of its natural splendours and show the world how to hang on to a green and pleasant land while still providing the lifestyle and luxuries that we all have come to believe we deserve (and stuff the rest of the planet, so it seems).
Tom
In case people have forgotten what Elizabeth Castle looks like - Take a trip to the hairpin bend on Westmount Road (overlooking where the "Pav" used to be!
I refreshed my memory there yesterday - and also decided what I would "like" to do with the other monstrosities currently on the waterfront!
Jamie 'Oliver ' Malac
What we need for sure is more cafes and restaurants because there simply isn't enough on the island already!!!! I just can't find a place to buy a sarnie sometimes, plus can't we get a sainsbury's over here...pretty please
Ken
I just hope they can find room for another nightclub for us gays to go in the development. I'm kinda getting bored of cosmo
Scott
Looks like the silent directors (aka some local politicians) will be on a nice little earner with this development. Not forgetting that they are the people who gave our land away, only for it to be sold back to us. Love jersey...love politicians. PS How can land which is made of shyte and rubbish technically support these towers?
Matthew Richardson
I'm all for Jersey becoming more modern and getting these great new developments.If it were up to the people who think just this would ruin the landscape, we would still be using candle light to go to the toilet in the middle of the night.
Andy
No to the towers! They would be totally the wrong scale for Jersey and would spoil the charm of the island - a blot on the landscape visible from so many natural beauty spots, it's just unthinkable. People come to Jersey for it's unique charms, and tower blocks are certainly NOT unique. We do not need 'radical' - we can show the world that the 21st century is all about living in harmony with the environment as much as possible - THAT would be REAL progress.
JDA
I THINK IT IS AWFUL, WE ARE NOT LONDON, AND JERSEY IS TO SMALL TO ACCOMODATE THESE TYPES OF BUILDINGS.
THE STATES HAVE ALREADY RUINED JERSEY, AND THE TOURIST'S WILL NEVER BE BACK JUST BECAUSE YOU BUILD A SWISH BUILDING, IT IS EXTORIONATE THE PRICES PEOPLE PAY TO GET TO JERSEY, YOU CAN GO TO THE U.S.A FROM THE U.K. FOR THE PRICE YOU PAY TO COME TO JERSEY (WHERE WOULD YOU GO ???).
THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO FUND JSY HOSPICE ETC!! AS THEY HAVE NO MONEY, BUT THEY CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR THIS MONSTROSOTY OF A BUILDING.
STATES OF JERSEY GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT.
I AM JERSEY BORN & BREED AND I DON'T WANT IT, IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU LISTENED TO WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY INSTEAD OF IGNORING OUR OPINIONS.
THEY WILL SIT EMPTY FOR EVER AND A DAY LIKE ALL THE OTHER LUXURY OFFICES & FLATS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT.
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!!!
Melanie
The new waterfront plans are very adventureous .. and they need to be. The existing buildings (Cineworld) etc are a disaster and hopefully WEB realise now that they have to build something exciting rather that dull and safe.
Lee Horton
This is certainly a distinctive development; but is the scale too big for the island? Probably not, as it will not be amongst the more traditional buildings.
Jenny Curtis
The world's great financial cities are crafted by their wonderful skylines. To me looking at New York, Hong Kong or Singapore's (all concidententally islands in their own right) skylines shows you how beautiful tall can be.
DAVID HAWKINS
I think this sort of development is just what is needed to refresh a jaded St Helier. Well done to those who designed it.
Mr Bear
It's not about losing ones identity it's more about creating a new identity and style. Jersey has lost it's way over the last decade and needs something radical to shake it out of its slumber. Rather than be viewed as boring old farts let's do something innovative for a change. Get real Jersey move forward!
Yana Vibert
I think that this development is outrageous, I am a local girl and feel that the development does not fit in with the way of life we are trying to achieve and will do nothing to enhance the Island.
We already have plenty of luxury apartments in the island and many of these remain empty, I feel this area would be put to far better use if it was developed to make an area for the youth of our island, they need somewhere that they can meet up with each other and grow into responsible young adults while being able to enjoy themselves and keep out of trouble, I think it's about time we gave them somewhere to go as we had when I was young, unfortunately Fort Regent no longer has facilities for the youngsters like it used to, instead of finding projects to make the rich even richer use the area to enhance our young peoples education and experiences and maybe this may just help enrich everyone in the islands life by keeping our youngsters out of trouble by giving them somewhere exciting to go!
JOAN BEVIS
This proposal is quite unsuitable for Jersey.
I say NO.
Simon Teller
I think it's great for Jersey. Fantastic modern architecture - something seriously lacking from St. Helier.
Jersey Tracuer
WOW it looks amazing it should definately go ahead like brands said "catapult the island into the 21st century" it looks so modern, neat and slick a nice change to all the granite and brick everywhere which to be honest looks ugly compared to the smoothness of steel and glass
Tigger
It's not right for Jersey, we need to get it right before we destroy St Helier as it is now. We are losing our identity, we don't want to be like every waterfront
brands
The plan looks wonderful - I hope they go ahead and catapult the island's image into the 21st century. Here in Canterbury, where I live, the place is dominated by Elizabethan architecture; give locals some glass and steel and they panic!
Good luck with the project, down with the reactionaries!
