´óÏó´«Ã½

Elton John on his battles with addiction

Elton John speaks to David Frost, 1991. Copyright David Paradine Productions Ltd.

I just actually believe that there is something that's kept me here for some reason. I mean, clinically, I should be dead.

Elton on his battles with addiction.

In 1991, just after Elton John had come out of rehab following 15 years of addiction, he was interviewed by Dad at his home in Windsor. Their conversation is staggeringly revealing and captures Elton at the rawest possible moment, addressing his battle to overcome addiction and mental health issues. Here is just a taste of Elton being incredibly frank and honest about such a personal issue:

Elton John: From 1976 to 1990, it was a catalogue of happy times and very unhappy times, periods of sobriety, periods of intense and utter pain and distress, heightened by the fact that I took lots of drugs and drank a lot.

And it got me to the position where I didn't really want to live. I used to get up in the morning and groan. That's if I got up at all.

And you know, I have so much to be grateful for. And I was so… full of self-pity. And I was so, I didn't know what to do. You know, I'm a very proud man. I couldn't ask for help. I knew there was something wrong with me. But I couldn't admit that I was wrong. And I couldn't admit that I needed to be helped.

I became spiteful, I became angry, I became irritable. And I hated that. But I couldn't stop. I hated myself in the end, I really hated myself. So… it was pretty sad.

But, meanwhile the career was still going. The only thing I had to cling on to was the career. So, the hits were still coming. God knows how they were. And that's what kept me going. I mean, that love of the music. I mean, and the fact that I still was competitive. I just actually believe that there is something that's kept me here for some reason. I mean, clinically, I should be dead.

David Frost: Really, really?

Elton John: Emotionally, emotionally, I was, emotionally dead.

Elton went on to explain how he did turn his life around and the interview is ultimately hugely uplifting. I would even say it is inspiring – particularly when you consider how ahead of his time he was when it came to talking openly about mental health issues, well before it became common place:

Elton John: There are so many millions of people who have the same problems as me and they don't communicate. Because they don't think people want to be there for them. And if any of you are out there listening just... it's okay to ask for help. I didn't think it was because I thought it was a sign of weakness. In fact, it's a very spiritual thing to do, to ask another human being to help you. And I'm very glad I did. And now as a result, my life has changed so much.

Listen to The Frost Tapes - Elton John

John Lennon and George Harrison on the meaning of life

In 1967 Dad interviewed Lennon and Harrison together just after he had interviewed the Maharishi, a yoga guru who had been teaching the pair. The conversation was deep and free-flowing – so much so that they easily ran out of time. So, Dad got the pair back to continue the conversation the following week...

David Frost with George Harrison and John Lennon, 1967. Copyright David Paradine Productions Ltd.

There are some moments in Dad’s interviews – like getting a US President to apologise – that have enormous and lasting value from the moment they occur. But there are other moments that have great value today where I wonder whether they would have seemed incongruous to the audience when they first aired – like discussing the meaning of life with two men in their 20s who, at the time, appeared to have their whole lives ahead of them…

David Frost: One of the last things I asked the Maharishi was what he thought that people were on earth for. After six weeks of his teachings, what would you say?

George Harrison: To create more happiness, and to fulfil all desires. And I personally think that everybody is going to be here until they have fulfilled all desires. I believe in reincarnation. I mean, it's just something that I feel exists, that what you sow, you reap. The ultimate thing is to manifest that divinity so that you can become one with the Creator. I mean it sounds pretty far out to be talking about things like that, but that's just what I believe.

John Lennon: Um, yeah, I believe the same. But it's just when we're talking about meditation and that, it's, it's frightening, really, for people who haven't done it or still, who fancy their meditation, but hear about… coming back and all that up there. So, you know, I'd sooner put it over and forget all about that. You don't have to live to get into heaven by being a good boy, or to go to hell, just to live better as you, as you're living, you know, do whatever you're doing better. Live now you know, not looking forward to the great day, or whatever it's meant to be.

Listen to The Frost Tapes - The Beatles

Elizabeth Taylor on Louis B Mayer

Elizabeth Taylor spoke about the infamous Hollywood studio boss Louis B Mayer in a way that will no doubt resonate with stories we have heard about the film industry in more recent years:

Elizabeth Taylor: Well, I thought he was a beast. He used his power over people to such a degree that he no longer became a man. He became an instrument of power. And he didn't care who he cut down or who he hurt.

One story that she told Dad about related to when she was 14 and went to see Mayer about a new part she had been given:

Elizabeth Taylor: I went up to see L B [Louis B Mayer], and he's given this big, long lecture, about “I am your father… whenever you need anything, come to me. And I will help you, you are all my children.” It's like Jesus! “My children!”.

And you'd sit down. And then he'd say, “Yes. What is it?”

“Well, we've read that I was going to do a film called Sally in our Alley. And, you know, if it's true, then I should start to do dancing lessons and singing lessons.”

Silence, dead face! He, all of a sudden, started to like foam at the mouth. And he said, “How dare you come into my office and tell me how to run my business. You are nothing!”, pointing to me. “I put you and pulled you out of the gutter. And you'd be nowhere if it hadn't been for me.” Well now I promise you, David, I would, would have been quite happy in my gutter, whatever he thought that was, without him. And he said, “Get out of here!”.

And I said, it's the first swear word I ever used. I said, “Mr. Mayer, you and your studio can go to hell.”

Listen to The Frost Tapes - Elizabeth Taylor

Muhammad Ali on racism

David Frost interviews Muhammad Ali, 1969. Copyright David Paradine Productions Ltd.

Honestly, I don’t know where to start with Dad’s 10 interviews with Muhammad Ali – what an astonishingly captivating guest. He had it all.

I have picked an exchange Dad and Ali had on racism. Ali’s views in the late 60s were pretty intense, but you can understand why given what was going on in America and specifically what he had been through personally. At one point, Dad says to him during a 1968 encounter, “you sound like Governor Wallace talking.” (George Wallace was a segregationist Governor of Alabama and perennial presidential candidate.)

Ali’s response is illuminating, and also depressing, as it reveals the scale of the racism that he and others like him must have faced.

Muhammad Ali: No, I'm with Wallace. If I had to vote, which I don't, I'd vote for Wallace 'cause Wallace tells the truth. He talks like [the] way white people feel, but they're hypocritical. As a whole, white folks feel like Wallace. And he's one who will tell it. And as a whole, black folks feel like me. They’re just scared to look you in your white face and tell you…

David Frost: Now... but Governor Wallace, said to me, I asked him the question, "Would you let your daughter marry a black man?" And he got a good deal of criticism 'cause he said he wouldn't want it to happen and...

Muhammad Ali: And he's right.

David Frost: You're saying that it was wrong of people to criticize Governor Wallace, he was right?

Muhammad Ali: No, I'm saying I like him because he tells the truth. He don't phoney it. He don't go round pickin' up little black babies, "Oh, you're so cute." See, you have a wolf and a fox. Both of 'em look alike, but when they attack the hen house, the approach is different. See, the wolf he'll warn you before he attack. You know, woooo [HOWLS] ‘Put the hens up, the wolf's comin'. But the fox, he tiptoes around the house. So, you have a rattlesnake and you got them diamondback cobras, both of 'em look alike. They're real pretty, but I like the rattlesnake better because if I get in his way, he'll [RATTLE NOISE] warn me. But the cobra he slips up on me, see? So, you have a southern white man in America and you have a northern one. That's how the black people stays tricked.

Listen to The Frost Tapes - Muhammad Ali

Sammy Davis Jr on the dark side of fame

Elton John was not the only one to open up about the darker side of fame. Sammy Davis Jr too was amazingly open across their multiple extended interviews.

David Frost: I mean, in the last five years from when you said, “I realised I was burning the candle at both ends” and so on. There's been a change.

Sammy Davis: And in the middle, too. You know, it's, see what you need in this business. If the gods of fame have been nice enough to smile upon you, as they have been for me. You got to go bananas. I don't give two cents to anyone who says, 'oh, no, I've always been straight.' You know with a raised eyebrow. I've never, you know, I went bananas. And I really went bananas in terms of clothing. I went bananas in terms of my lifestyle. And I did it all because I had to experience it.

And somehow somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, you better give that up because you can't deal with it. Because I was into drugs, and I couldn't deal with it. And again, always being in show business motivated, my pulling back and going, wait a minute, this is wrong for me. Because I remember one night I walked on the stage. And I was, I was really whacked out of my head, man, and I walked on the stage, and I was doing it. And I thought I was performing well, and I was really winging it.

And suddenly, I told the same joke twice, and didn't realise it. And I turned to George as we signal for a number, and I said to George, I don't know why the joke didn't work. He said, 'It worked well the first time.' And it was like someone just, cold water hitting your face. And I said, whatever that stuff does to me, I'm never going to do it anymore. Because it's robbing me of the one thing that has motivated my living. And that is communication between me and that audience and doing a good performance that I can be proud of.

Listen to The Frost Tapes - Sammy Davis Jr