大象传媒

Caitlin Benedict decided to come out as non-binary last year and they quickly realised how much stuff they needed to figure out. So they made a podcast about it – called NB.

Here are the best pieces of advice Caitlin heard from the friends they made along the way.

You might know Amrou as Glamrou – their fabulous drag alter-ego. They’re also Caitlin’s co-host on NB.

Amrou as Glamrou (right) with their co-star Crystal in their drag act, Denim.

You鈥檙e constantly questioning and interrogating yourself

“They’re a writer, performer, and aquarium enthusiast who describes almost everything as iconic”, says Caitlin, “About five minutes into the first conversation I ever had with Amrou, I knew I wanted to go through this process with them beside me”.

Amrou came out as non-binary a while ago. But that doesn’t mean they have everything figured out either.

“Being non-binary for me is such a constant questioning of my gender and my sexuality and my world view," Amrou says. "I feel like in a way you can’t really have your shit together as someone non-binary because you’re constantly questioning and interrogating yourself. I still have a lot of questions.”

Jamie is the editor of FRUITCAKE magazine and, as Caitlin says, “looks amazing – 18th-century white foundation, a shaved head, and flamboyant outfits”.

Caitlin, Jamie and Amrou have fun in a charity shop.

But they admit it can be really scary the first time you wear something different. Sometimes it can even mean you’re less safe because you’re more visible.

When Jamie was experimenting with different looks, they made the decision to wear a skirt for the first time in a place that felt safe.

"I was just going for dinner with my friends and I was just like, this feels like great! I felt very empowered, like I was in a safe space with my people," Jamie says. "For me, I think once I've broken that boundary of doing it once, I then don't really bat an eyelid when I do it again. I literally don't care. I feel cute!"

Victoria Sin is Amrou’s very best friend.

Amrou, Victoria and Caitlin in Victoria's studio.

Having people take you seriously shouldn鈥檛 be this crazy ask!

They are a non-binary drag perfomer, whom Caitlin and Amrou visited when Caitlin was first beginning to articulate that they were non-binary.

Victoria told Caitlin that it’s fine to try things out temporarily if you want to. It doesn’t have to be permanent.

"It should be like, this year I feel like a 'they', next year I feel like a 'she'," Victoria says. "It's not anything to be ashamed of - to be able to play with your gender and try some things on. And having people take you seriously shouldn’t be this crazy ask!"

CN Lester is a musician, and author of the book Trans Like Me.

Caitlin, CN and Amrou.

Caitlin describes reading CN’s book as "hitting them like a tonne of bricks", because it's so persuasive and honest. Caitlin and Amrou met with them to talk about making peace with their bodies. CN pointed out that when it comes to finding happiness, none of us has forever to find it.

“I’m not trying to be morbid but we get a very short amount of time in our bodies. We kind of take it for granted they’re not going to change but they will change. It feels really important to me that we face up to that so we can go, right, how can I be happy? And however my body changes, how can I honour how I am in this space and bring joy into my life? Because we haven’t got much time!”

Like Amrou, Caitlin had a lot of questions when they came out as non-binary. Lots of them were around what they should or shouldn't do, and whether they were, they say, "non-binary 'enough'".

Making the podcast NB meant that Caitlin could talk to lots of people who identify as non-binary. They’ve found that talking to these people, who all express themselves in different ways, has been crucial.

"There is no way I would ever say to anyone that I’ve met throughout this process that ‘you’re not doing this right, you’re not trans enough, you’re not queer enough’, and it really stops me saying any of those things to myself."

You can listen to all the great advice Caitlin heard in NB, available on 大象传媒 Sounds