大象传媒

Rose Ayling-Ellis, star of Strictly and EastEnders, joins Dr Rangan Chatterjee on the latest edition of the Out of Hours podcast.

Rose plays Frankie Lewis in EastEnders, the 大象传媒 One soap’s first ever deaf character. She’s also a contestant in this year's Strictly Come Dancing along with her partner Giovanni.

Below we present a full transcript of Rose's chat with Dr. Rangan, as she speaks to him about her life and acting career.

DR RANGAN: I've been really excited about talking to you. When did you first realise that you wanted to act?

ROSE: Really it happened by accident, because I was always interested in art so I went to art college. I was thinking about doing animation.

There was a deaf event for deaf kids to get together to film. I went to do it and I tried out filming and I really didn't like filming, really didn't like it.

And they said, why don't you try acting? I did acting, and I absolutely loved it. And then the person who was at the deaf event at the weekend, decided to ask me to come to join his short film. And then from there I networked, but I never saw acting as a full time career. I always saw it as a hobby, because I’ve never seen anyone deaf on telly growing up. So I did fashion as my career, and then I do acting as a hobby. But it’s becoming full time!

DR R: Yeah, I mean it's fascinating to hear that. Obviously, many people know you as playing Frankie Lewis in EastEnders, the soap’s first ever deaf character. How was it that you ended up getting the role?

ROSE: A lot of work happened before EastEnders. So I initially did theatre work and I did TV series, and Casualty. Because normally a lot of agents don't take on deaf people because they don't think they can give them a lot of work. So a lot of deaf actors don't have an agency and because I’ve got an agent, she got me more work. And I did theatre and then she got me the job on EastEnders, but EastEnders was only going to have me for two weeks. But on my first day they offered me six months, and then another six months and then another year.

DR R: It's fascinating to hear, do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy being on EastEnders?

ROSE: It’s definitely given me the opportunity, it’s nice to go and work and act every day in the week. I mean, not many people... not many actors get the chance to act every week. So I'm very lucky to do that.

DR R: Now there is, I think, a misconception out there for many people that deaf people won't or can't enjoy music. And, I'd love you to talk about this a little bit, because I kind of feel that this is something that a lot of us potentially misunderstand. I mean, what about your relationship to music? Tell me a little bit about that.

ROSE: I think music is so much more complicated than people think. It's not just hearing it, you sort of feel it and you enjoy it and it's the atmosphere. When you go out clubbing, it's not just the music, it is the atmosphere, and you see people dancing. I go out clubbing with my deaf friends. Or, I'll go to a concert and go to gigs or a festival. I go to a music festival with a group of us. So I think with me being on Strictly it hopefully will make people stop being so like “Oh I didn't know deaf people can enjoy music?” Yeah, we do. And?!

DR R: Oh, it's fantastic what you're doing. Could you describe what it's like… I'm sure you’ve probably had to explain this to people before but when you hear music, do you feel that music means different things to different people? Some people, I guess focus on the lyrics, some people focus on the tune, some people focus on the baseline. What is it that you focus on when you're listening to music?

ROSE: It’s hard for me to explain because I don't know what you hear. So I don't know what I'm comparing it with. But all I can say is that when I have my hearing aids in, I can hear the music, I can hear somebody singing but I don't know what they’re saying. Sometimes without my hearing aids, if the speakers are on full blast, I might be able to just hear and feel it. It depends on what room I'm in as well. So in the biggest hall it’s really echoey, I can't hear that at all. But if I was in my car, it's small with the door shut and I play the music loud, I can hear it with my hearing aid. Hearing it does not really mean hearing it through my ear.

It's very complex. I can't really explain that. [laughs]

DR R: So Rose, our theme for this week's show is the Power of Dance. Now, were you into dancing before you went on Strictly?

ROSE: No I’ve never really danced. I’ve had no dance experience before. You know when you do a dancing class when you were little? I did ballet, but that didn't last very long, because all I was doing was just following everybody else and not really understanding what’s going on.

DR R: It sounds like you've been putting yourself outside your comfort zone, which is, you know, it's great for all of us to do that, from time to time. It's certainly where we can grow and learn lots of things about ourselves. What would you say is one of the things that you've learned about yourself, since you started on Strictly?

ROSE: It’s the bravest thing I've ever done Strictly. I’ve learnt that I get distracted very easily. So I have to concentrate all the time, and to concentrate for eight hours of the day is quite hard.

I'm still learning, every day I'm still learning, but I still enjoy it a lot and it’s so satisfying when I get it right. It’s so satisfying when my body does it, again and again and again, with no mistakes. It’s the best place to be, but it’s proper work to get to that point in the first place.

DR R: Yeah, I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is a lot of work. But I guess, what do they say... “nothing good comes easy”? So you put in the work, you keep practising and then it comes, which is really rewarding for all of us. What does it feel like for you? When you're dancing, you've never done it before Strictly, so this is really the first time that you are learning how to dance. Can you describe what that feels like, in that moment, when it's all coming together...

ROSE: I feel like, to be very honest with you, I feel a bit of relief. “Oh, okay. I just did it. And I didn’t miss a beat”. But I always feel that I could do more, I don't know why. It feels really good to get it done on a Saturday night and everyone is hyped up and you feel like “Yes, I got it!” and it’s going really well. But I always feel like there's room for improvement. I feel like… arghh! I could do a bit more! [laughs]

DR R: Do you think dancing could help, I guess you, but the wider population? Do you think dancing has the power to help all of us with our mental health and our well being?

ROSE: Definitely. I thought dancing was, you just dance, but it’s not. You learn so much more about yourself, about who you are really, what you're capable of, and how far you can push it. And to never give up. Even when you feel like it, just don't give up, just keep going.

DR R: I always say it's almost impossible to feel low and sad if you are dancing to a happy and upbeat song. What if someone's listening to this right now and they're thinking... “You know what, I like watching other people dance, whether it's on television, whether it's at a wedding or on the dance floor, but I feel self conscious. And I feel a bit nervous as to what people around me are going to think if I dance.” Do you have any words of wisdom for them to give them some inspiration?

ROSE: Just go for it. Don't worry about what other people think, that’s Giovanni’s advice. If I'm worried about what other people think, tell yourself “Nobody care, nobody care. Just do it!”

DR R: In Strictly you have been partnered with Gio. What has it been like for you working with him?

ROSE: He’s a very, very nice person, he's a very good teacher. He’s very good at pushing you and he really wants the best out of you.

DR R: I mean Gio, what's it been like for you? How's it been for you working with Rose?

GIOVANNI: It's been fantastic. It's a challenge, it's something different, new for me but I'm loving every single second of it. I'm always up for a challenge. I'm always up for discovering new ways to teach and definitely this is happening this year.

DR R: What has the reaction been like within the deaf community Rose to you being on Strictly?

ROSE: They love it so much because finally they get to see someone like them and I think it’s making people look at the deaf community in a very, very positive way.

DR R: I mean, I understand that I can imagine that when they see you there, it must be very, very powerful for them. What do you hope for the deaf community after this? You know, by you being on Strictly. Yes... I guess you're showing the non-deaf community that you can connect to music, how you can dance, which of course is going to shatter a lot of misconceptions out there…

ROSE: Me being on TV has shown society that representation is really important, it really does matter. And I think... I hope that the TV industry will change their attitude towards disabled people and start hiring them more. Diversity is a massive topic, everyone’s talking about it, but visibility is still so behind. Can you think of any other deaf person? No? Can you think of any other disabled person? Maybe… We need so much more.

DR R: Gio have you been learning sign language?

GIO: I've been learning sign language, yes. I'm in the process to learn it more. But it's something that definitely, definitely everybody should do as well, you know, to make accessible to everybody else.

DR R: And what would you say your favourite part has been, so far of working with Rose because obviously there's something very different from what you're used to.

GIO: My favourite part is just basically on the Saturday night when you can see the final product happening. Because obviously we train a lot during the week, we work hard. And then on Saturday night do the performance, it’s a nice performance. And that's when it's rewarding. So it's just a nice feeling really.

DR R: How would you rate Rose as a dancer?

GIO: As a student? It’s a 15 out of 10, as a dancer, we are getting there… [Rose cheers] as a dancer we are getting there [Rose laughs]. It’s a journey you know, obviously she never danced before and we have something that is more difficult than anybody else really. The focus, our focus is… this could go different ways. So it's actually more difficult for her to learn how to dance, but yeah she's doing alright. So far, so good.

DR R: Yeah, I mean, 15 out of 10 as a student, that's pretty good going?

GIO: Yeah, yeah, she really wants to learn, she really wants to try hard. What the difference is between the brain and the body, is just two different things, you have to connect the two of them. But this takes time. This is the stuff that takes time and repetitions.

ROSE: Yeah, my body doesn’t always do what my brain wants to do and that’s the most frustrating part of it.

DR R: I can imagine, but good for you for getting stuck in, good for you for the effort that you're putting in. That's just really fantastic to see. I mean Rose, what's next for you? Obviously, Strictly at the moment, you've got EastEnders, have you got anything else exciting in the near horizon that you want to share with us?

ROSE: I think I want to be the first of everything! [laughs]

DR R: You mean you want to keep breaking down new barriers to people and say, look, this is possible.

ROSE: Yeah, I really do. I want to keep breaking them down, but also more deaf people come in. I don't want to be the last.

DR R: Well, guys, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you both today.

ROSE: Lovely have had a chat with you too.

DR R: Keep up the great work that you're doing, and good luck and hope to see you soon.

GIO: Thank you very much.

DR R: I’ve got to say I really enjoyed that conversation with Rose. There were so many little bits there, that again, have caused me to stop and reflect a little. I loved what she was saying about the deaf community, about how she is a representative for them, about how she wants to inspire them.

And how she also wants her participation in Eastenders but also in Strictly to challenge some of those misconceptions that many of us have had in the past. Maybe you had some of those misconceptions before you heard Rose speak, maybe people in your community do. So I think that was really powerful at getting that message out there.

I also loved what she said about dancing. She’s never really danced before, certainly not in the way that she does on Strictly but again she’s pushing herself, she's trying really hard, she’s practicing. And when it comes together it feels absolutely fantastic, and I think all of us can resonate with that experience. I also love what she said about “Don’t worry about what other people think, nobody really cares”.