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THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE ´óÏó´«Ã½ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

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IN TOUCH – St Vincent’s School in Liverpool

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TX:Ìý 29.05.2018Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý KEVIN CORE

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School noises

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White

When I left a special school for blind students many years ago now I could tell you about the type of long bow used to beat the French at the Battle of Agincourt, I knew about the tonnage of ships leaving the port of Liverpool in 1882 and I had a rough idea what a logarithm was.Ìý Trouble is I couldn’t iron a shirt, I could barely boil an egg or peel a potato.Ìý

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But things are very different now in places like this.Ìý I’m at St Vincent’s School for visually impaired students in Liverpool and the students eating their lunch here, in the dining room, are learning to fend for themselves in a way I never did.

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Class actuality

And place your finger into the jug [indistinct word] because what happens is it won’t overflow then, pull it away from the tap and you’ve got enough water.Ìý Is that okay?

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Beach

Hi, my name’s Paula Beach, I teach cooking and nutrition and independence.Ìý We’re standing in a kitchen which has got four individual kitchens.Ìý In each kitchen they’ve got their own sink, their own microwave, their own toaster – it’s fully equipped for the child to work on their own.

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Student

I’ve been taught how to use the one cup but I am the best chef in the world.

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White

You’re starting from scratch, what are you trying to instil into the youngsters who’ve been here today?

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Beach

I think that people are frightened to let young people use, say, a hot oven or a grill.Ìý What I instil in the children is safe techniques at all times.Ìý But also, Peter, what I have to do from the beginning is show the equipment cold.

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White

I mean if you’ve not actually touched these things you wouldn’t – a blind person wouldn’t know what they’re like.

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Beach

You wouldn’t know.Ìý And understandably, as well, at home they maybe be told to stay away from the iron because it’s dangerous and they can hurt themselves.Ìý So, while the iron is cold I actually show them how it works.

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White

Joe, has been having a go at it, with help from Paula Beach, I’m just going to go over and see how he’s getting on.

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Joe

So, basically, I’m just going in an up and down movement and keeping your hand away from it, so you don’t burn your hand or whatever.Ìý You put the flex around your wrist.

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White

So. can you explain what those are, Joe, what you’re putting round your wrist?

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Joe

The flex, the wire, because then you’re not ironing the wire.

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Beach

So, you’re not going to iron over the flex, yeah, yeah.

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White

Which could very nasty I guess, if you burn through the flex all sorts of things could happen.

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Joe

Game over.

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White

Yeah, game over.

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How sophisticated can you get with the things that you’re teaching the children?

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Beach

Well I do go to a level of and doing a B Tech, Jamie Oliver course, where the children have to be able to cook for themselves.Ìý So, it’s a broad range.Ìý It starts, Peter, they start from being able to make a cold drink to ironing, to using the oven, to being able to do a three-course meal.

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White

What’s the ultimate aim would you say?

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Beach

To make the children as independent as possible for when they go out, either to college or eventually they might have their own home.Ìý It’ll give them confidence to be able to look after themselves – that’s my biggest aim.

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Simpson

I’m Angela Simpson and I’m Deputy Principle at St Vincent’s school.Ìý On a Wednesday afternoon we have enrichment – anything from ceramics to fitness, to extra mobility, cooking and nutrition but not national curriculum cooking and nutrition, more the fun sort of cooking and nutrition that you have to do to survive.Ìý And we have not only our pupils, there are visually impaired pupils who come from local schools to access enrichment activities.

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White

I have heard it suggested that there’s a need for independent living and rehabilitation to be more a part of a curriculum, almost in a sense have part of the curriculum designed for them.Ìý What’s your view about that?

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Simpson

Independence is something that we promote wherever they are and even within the more academic lessons independence will always be mentioned, as well as their academic studies they do need to be able to get the academic qualifications that they need to pursue the career that they have in mind.Ìý It’s no good having a handful of qualifications if they can’t get themselves to work and they can’t interact with the other employees and they can’t get their lunch ready and go to wherever they need to go.Ìý It’s the whole person that we’re trying to evolve, if you like, so that they’ve got all the necessary skills to survive and succeed.

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White

You do have a broad range of education here and some visually impaired children may well say – I don’t want to do all this stuff, I can get somebody to boil me an egg, I can get somebody to make me a cup of coffee, I want to learn history, English.Ìý Is this compulsory?

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Simpson

It’s not compulsory, no, the enrichment is an opportunity for our pupils to try new skills.Ìý A lot of the areas of the enrichment will tie into national curriculum subjects anyway – so the ceramics can be – will tie into the art.Ìý We do aquaponics that will tie into science.Ìý There’s a drama session so that ties into drama and English.Ìý So, all of the enrichment activities do tie into our curriculum and the subject areas.

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White

Well I’d better get a bit of a move on because I understand that Marcia is just about to have a mobility lesson, that’s kind of getting from A to B.Ìý She’s due to go to the bus stop, catch a bus and go into town.Ìý Cheryl McKellen is her instructor.

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McKellen

Okay Marcie, we’ll start on here, on our tactile paving, and what I want you to do is make your way to the end of the path and find the cobbles.Ìý Okay?Ìý

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White

So, that’s a roller cane, isn’t it Marcia?

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Marcia

A jumbo roller tip.

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McKellen

It’s just a bigger round ball at the end of your cane and what it tends to do, it doesn’t snag as much on uneven pavements, so a lot of the students actually prefer these now.Ìý Right, so you you find your blister paving, so you know that that’s indicating that you’re road crossing now, so do you want to position your cane ready to cross?

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White

You’ve got a bit of sight Marcia, how much are you listening, how much are you looking?

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Marcia

I struggle with my hearing, I have to utilise my sight as much as I can because my hearing can fluctuate and my sight can fluctuate quite a lot.Ìý So, it could be that in the next couple of minutes my sight will change and my hearing will get better, so I have to rely on both of them to be okay.

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McKellen

So, when you’re ready Marcia you make your decision to cross and make your way to the cobbles at the end of the path.Ìý As we make our way through the trees, obviously the trees above your head are blocking out the sun, so once you’re through the trees it will become lighter and again that’s another clue for you to use that let’s you know you’re at the end of the path.

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White

So, we’re just catching up with Marcia because I got stuck on the other side of the road, Marcia was too quick for me.Ìý

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McKellen

Okay Marcia, so what I want you to do now is find the landmark and then square off from it to find your down kerb.

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White

… that’s about the fourth road crossing in 400 yards isn’t it, it’s almost been designed as an obstacle course.

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It would have been handy if they’d moved this bus stop a bit nearer but it wouldn’t have been as good a challenge.Ìý It’s quite interesting for me, watching Cheryl instructing Marcia, because I’m only using a symbol cane.Ìý I must admit I’d find this quite a challenging walk, it’s just a lot of crossings and a lot of turnings in a very short space of time.

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McKellen

So, if you just want to come out of the bus stop for me, stand a little bit closer to the kerb and put your cane upright and out in front, so that the driver can see you.Ìý The way we do this – they have the cane out and it’s visible to the driver, the drivers should stop with the doors opening as close to them as possible.Ìý Obviously, we don’t live in a perfect world and it doesn’t always happen but we try.

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White

So, Marcia, we’ve got to the bus stop and your kind of next couple of challenges in our head which is the bus and going into town, what are the tricky things about that?

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Marcia

On the odd occasion sometimes bus drivers will decide that they don’t want to stop at bus stops, so then I’ll lose count of how many bus stops I have to go until I get to the location I’m going to.Ìý It can be quite hard with noise on the bus as well, sometimes, if there’s children screaming, adults shouting at the children.

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White

When I was at school a long time ago we just didn’t get this training, we just went and picked it up as we went along really, it was very haphazard, how we all survived I’m not quite sure.Ìý How valuable do you find this kind of training?

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Marcia

It allows us to have that extra little bit of independence and it allows us to be able to travel independently without having to have someone constantly there [indistinct word] you on, nagging you about going such and such a place, you go somewhere on your own.

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White

Any things you’re looking to to do today, you’ve done the walk, anything that you particularly want to develop your skills at?

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Marcia

I’ll be working on the likes of talking to the people at the counters and asking them for help and asking them to help me find things and on the bus, asking them to tell me where we’re going.

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White

It’s really interesting you mention that because you can learn all the skills in the world but I mean one of the things I’ve found that got me out of trouble most often is being able to talk to people.Ìý So, you still, although you’re learning these skills, that is something you still value is it, this confidence to actually ask for help when you need it?

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Marcia

I struggle a lot with confidence, with most things, so trying to find the confidence to talk to the people, to get their help can sometimes be quite hard.

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McKellen

Oh, so you’ve identified that it’s the correct bus, okay?Ìý Do you know how to find your way to the doors?

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Marcia

Thank you, can you give me a shout when we get to Sainsbury’s please?

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Driver

[Indistinct words]

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McKellen

Okay, alright, bye.

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White

There she goes, off into town.Ìý

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You can probably hear the youngsters in the background, getting their dinner, we’re just going to walk into the dining room.

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Interesting change of surface there.Ìý It’s one of the things I’ve already noticed at the school that there are a lot of different qualities of surface and so as soon as you walk in here it feels different, you know where you are.

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Angela Simpson again.

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Simpson

We have a talking menu outside that the children can press the button and it will say what’s available for lunch each day, so that when they come and queue up they know what they’re going to ask for.

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White

So, it’s a talking menu rather than a braille menu is it?

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Simpson

It is, yes.Ìý We did used to have braille menus but the talking menu is quite popular, they just press the button on their way in and it will tell them.Ìý And it’s updated everyday to say what’s on the menu.

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White

Yeah, and I suppose that is also something that everybody could access because not every child is going to find braille all that easy, are they?

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Simpson

Yeah, exactly, we used to have braille and large print menus on the wall but sometimes by the time you’ve found the menu and read it it’s much easier just to know where there’s a button the wall and press it and you get the menu.

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White

Okay, let’s grab something to eat if we can.

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I’m intrigued by this speaking menu, so I’m going to give it a go.Ìý It’s a big round button on the wall, I wonder what happens if I press this.

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Talking menu

Wednesday 16th May.Ìý Today’s menu is:Ìý Cheese pie, sausages, mash, cauliflower, broccoli, jacket potato, salad, fresh fruit and yoghurt.

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White

Right, I think I’ll have the cheese pie.Ìý Thank you, madam.

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Simpson

Some of the younger ones do take great delight in sometimes running past it during the day and pressing it to see if the menu’s on.

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This radiator here, when they trail the wall, this radiator here – when they get to that – if they turn, do a 90-degree turn, straight opposite them are the doors.

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White

Right, because I noticed going into the dining room it was a complete – it’s a wooden surface and you notice it.

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Simpson

It is.Ìý Yeah, it’s wooden in the dining room, outside the dining room it’s a different floor.Ìý Here it’s vinyl tiles and then when you go through the next double doors it’s carpet.

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White

Right, well I’m just making my way down another school corridor here, we’re coming into another of those changes of texture.Ìý And this, I understand, is going to be called the independence suite.Ìý But it’s much more than that, it’s almost a microcosm of the community.

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Simpson

Right, this was a large room but we’re dividing it into four sections.Ìý Two sections are going to be for pre-work experience placements.Ìý Because we’ve got a café on site we’re doing a mock café in here, which will allow the children to learn some skills.Ìý We’ve got an office area that’s going to be set up and will be connected to the school office, so they can learn some office skills before they go out on work experience.Ìý The rest of the complex we’ve got a room which is going to be the lounge with a fireplace, sofas.Ìý We’re going to have a bedroom.Ìý There is a bathroom and there is the kitchen.

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White

So really actually this is much more than a house, isn’t it, it’s a mixture of house, workplace, leisure space, café – you’re almost trying to create a microcosm of life down here.

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Simpson

Well yes, we are and then we’ve got one more space that we’re going to use and at the moment I’m thinking we’re going to set it up for a careers section.

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White

This is much more than used to happen, isn’t it, without you being unduly modest, I mean what you seem to be saying is we have to prepare visually impaired people for the whole of life, not just what was conventionally thought of as learning, if you like?

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Simpson

Yeah, yeah, we do.Ìý We want to ensure that visually impaired young adults are part of society as a whole and not just somebody that people might treat with some trepidation, might be a little bit afraid of how they should approach somebody who’s visually impaired.Ìý And give our children the confidence to be able to go out into the sighted world, as it were, to show that they can do everything that everybody else can.

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White

Has this been expensive?

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Simpson

Not really, not really.Ìý

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White

I suppose irons don’t cost much and yet you’ve put very ordinary things in here.

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Simpson

We have put very ordinary things in.Ìý The only thing that I would say that is different than what you might find in an ordinary kitchen is a talking microwave.

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Talking microwave

Door open.Ìý Door closed.Ìý Start.Ìý High power one minute.

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White

I mean what is striking me, as I’m standing in the middle of all this with irons and sofas and all that, is how different this is to when I went to school, which is you went from geography to history to maybe physics or whatever and it just – it didn’t occur to anybody really that we should do all this.Ìý It does feel very different.Ìý And it does take a leap of faith to entrust your child to a school like St Vincent’s.Ìý Well I’m just about to meet someone who’s done exactly that – Pam – who’s the nan of head boy Robbie Pennington.

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So, Pam, we’ve been talking about, in a way, that sense of risk that parents or guardians must feel when they entrust their children to a school like this, especially when they’re doing things like messing about with hot fat, boiling kettles – all that sort of thing.Ìý I just wonder what your own reaction to that has been?

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Pam

Yeah, the risk is always there, no matter where you are.Ìý I feel quite comfortable when he’s in the kitchen and using all of the skills that he’s learnt since he’s been here.

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White

Did you always feel like that, though, I’m just asking you to cast your mind back to when you first knew that he was in the kitchen messing about with hot water and fat and all that kind of stuff?

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Pam

Oh no, I was hysterical.Ìý No, I was like out my mind, like oh no, oh no.Ìý But just as time goes on and everything you sort of – obviously he’s supported in everything that he does but it is – well it’s a scary moment, isn’t it, even with a sharp knife.

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White

Were you letting him do those kind of things at home, in your kitchen?

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Pam

No.

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White

So, Robbie did you notice the difference?Ìý What is the significance of doing this kind of thing – the lessons that you learn here?

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Robbie

I’m comfortable in a place like this but at the same time it’s nerving, like when you’re dealing with objects like knives or anything like that.Ìý I can get from A to B if I have a cane and I’m capable of getting daily things done but I do still need obviously support in some things that my visual impairment makes me lack.

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White

What’s clear to me from the time I’ve spent here is that today’s visually impaired students are being taught living skills in a way that pupils like me had to pick up for themselves and which some of us never did.Ìý What maybe hasn’t changed is that, as Marcia said, having the confidence to ask for help when you really need it is still a vital tool in leading a full life.