´óÏó´«Ã½

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE ´óÏó´«Ã½ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

TX:Ìý 17.12.2019Ìý 2040-2100

Ìý

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý LEE KUMUTAT

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

White

Good evening.Ìý Does the thought of wrapping your presents fill you with dread?Ìý It does me.Ìý The first time I tried – I tried to send my mum a box of chocolates, all she got was the box.Ìý So, I’m putting myself in the hands of someone who knows how.Ìý And going all out on festive fashion – how to look the part and feel it too.Ìý Also, bon voyage to producer Lee Kumutat.Ìý Explanations later.

Ìý

But first, with last week’s election still fresh in our minds how did voting go for you?Ìý We asked you to tell us what happened to you.Ìý Listener, Andrew Paterson, did that.Ìý He found the process fairly straightforward, until, that is, last Thursday.

Ìý

Paterson

In the past I’ve never really had any major issues voting.Ìý I turn up with the guide dog, so it’s quite obviously I’m visually impaired and the staff at the polling station follow the protocol of attaching the template to the ballot paper and standing at a respectful distance.Ìý They read out the list of parties, I put my cross in the relevant gap on the paper and drop it into the box.Ìý Democracy done.Ìý My decision is equal to anyone else in society.Ìý This time, I was presented with a template which had half of it missing and it was attached to the wrong side of the ballot paper – the left side.Ìý The template didn’t have any of the outlines of the boxes on, just the spine down one side and the flaps on.Ìý I pointed out that it was attached to the wrong side of the ballot paper but the official refused to move it, saying this is the way he has been told to do it.Ìý As I disagreed with him there was a large queue forming.Ìý Eventually, I had to improvise by folding the ballot paper to try and line it up with the flaps on the wrong side and then ask the official if I had my pencil on the box.Ìý After voting, I wasn’t sure if I’d marked the candidate I wanted or if I’d spoiled my ballot and there was definitely no privacy.

Ìý

White

So, all the frustrations that many of you have told us about.Ìý Well, we do plan to keep reporting on whether and how progress is made in the provision of accessible voting, given that a court did find the current method unlawful.Ìý So, look out for more about that in the New Year.Ìý Although, it won’t be the job of producer Lee Kumutat to follow it up.Ìý Well, Lee is leaving the ´óÏó´«Ã½ at the end of this week – no she hasn’t been fired, she’s had an offer she couldn’t refuse.Ìý But it took me back – she came into a studio over 10 years ago to answer my questions on her impressions as an Australian who had moved to London, virtually on her own.

Ìý

Well in that interview she raved about how fantastically easy it was travelling on the London Underground.Ìý And realising we had a broadcasting talent on our hands I suggested that she do a piece on it for us.

Ìý

Archive – Lee Kumutat London Underground report

Kumutat

Down in Kings Cross underground station I started by asking a member of staff – Isaac Kinates [phon.] – just how it all works.Ìý What, for example, would happen if I came to the barrier and needed assistance.

Ìý

Kinates

We would not assume people need help, we would not also assume as well they don’t need help, we would not be patronising.Ìý We would approach the person and offer as much help as we can.

Ìý

Kumutat

Of course, the staff would be used to interacting with visually impaired people at Kings Cross with the RNIB close by but with six and a half thousand platform staff how does the London Underground keep tabs on whether the same level of service is maintained across its network.Ìý I asked Wayne Trevor, accessibility and inclusion manager.

Ìý

Trevor

We work directly with people themselves and organisations that represent people, like the RNIB, to make sure we say to the individuals and the members – how is this working for you, are you getting the sort of service that you expect.Ìý What we also have is a more structured way of gathering that feedback in the form of a mystery shopping survey.Ìý So, we employ disabled people, some of whom are blind or have a visual impairment, and they make real journeys, testing our staff, out on the system encountering difficulties like service disruptions and seeing how our staff respond.Ìý

Ìý

Kumutat

And now I’m off to apply for one of those mystery shopper jobs.

Ìý

White

And indeed she had another job because it wasn’t very long before she was producing, as well as reporting.

Ìý

Now it’s crunch time.Ìý I have a present here somewhere – here it is.Ìý It needs wrapping and I haven’t got the faintest idea where to start.Ìý If the store had had a service, I certainly would have used that but they didn’t and the person I’ve bought this for won’t appreciate it sitting under the Christmas tree in a bag for life.Ìý So, I’ve called for the cavalry in the form of Emma Williams.Ìý Emma is herself blind, she’s a mum of a 10-year-old and has recently started teaching daily living skills to visually impaired students at New College Worcester.

Ìý

So, Emma, this is a daily living skill, well at least it’s once a year for me.Ìý I’ve got a roll of wrapping paper and some scissors – I may not need them; it depends what you suggest.Ìý Get me started, will you?

Ìý

Williams

If you hold the roll of paper in one hand, okay, and start unrolling, making sure that the roll is one the top, rather than underneath, if you get what I mean.

Ìý

White

Oh right, because presumably the danger then is that you will take your hand away and the whole lot will unwrap.

Ìý

Williams

It might do but also you might be in danger of wrapping the present with the pattern on the inside and the white side on the outside.

Ìý

White

Oh, I see, yes, it’s very visual this wrapping paper stuff.

Ìý

Williams

Well it can and it can’t be.Ìý Sometimes you can buy wrapping paper that’s slightly textured and then you will have a bit more of an idea of which side is which.Ìý

Ìý

White

Okay, so I’ve got that.Ìý I’ve got it in the right position.Ìý What else?

Ìý

Williams

Okay.Ìý You need to place your present on the paper and you need to be thinking about the width of paper that you need.

Ìý

White

It’s about three inches wide and about eight inches long – something like that – the present, that is.

Ìý

Williams

Okay, so I would probably turn it the other way around so that it’s kind of longways in front of you from left to right.

Ìý

White

Okay, there’s not much room on this table.

Ìý

Williams

Ooh, ooh this could be interesting then.Ìý So, you need about a couple of inches on either side, on each end of the present.

Ìý

White

Okay.

Ìý

Williams

So, can you sort of feel with your finger, if you unroll enough paper, you might be able to feel with your fingers.

Ìý

White

I think I might have a bit too much actually.Ìý [laughter] Can I roll it back again?

Ìý

Williams

Of course.

Ìý

White

Yeah, okay, let me do that.Ìý Yeah, that’s better.

Ìý

Williams

Okay, oaky.Ìý So, now where your finger is marking, you then need to fold the paper.

Ìý

White

This is where – this is where it all goes horribly wrong.

Ìý

Williams

Well it can do so you might want to take the present off, okay?Ìý Then you would fold it to where your finger is.

Ìý

White

Oh, I see.

Ìý

Williams

And then to make sure that it’s straight, so you’re going to get a ring angle, you want to use the bottom and the top edges and make sure that they’re aligned.

Ìý

White

I tell you want, let me stop it, I’m already getting a bit lost.Ìý While I’m doing this, because we may be here for some time, also in the studio with me is Fern Lulham, our festive fashion correspondent, our pre-Christmas programme.Ìý Fern’s been trawling the stores and online for some of this year’s most accessible audio and tactile fashion.Ìý Fern, where are you going to start?

Ìý

Lulham

Well Peter, this year, party fashion is all about making a dramatic entrance, which I certainly did when I entered the ´óÏó´«Ã½ this morning…

Ìý

White

You were very noisy.

Ìý

Lulham

I was very jingly but we’ll get on to that in a minute.

Ìý

White

Okay.

Ìý

Lulham

That means colour, sparkle and texture which is good news for visually impaired ladies and gents.Ìý The great thing is that all the catwalk trends are available at affordable prices in the high street, even the low-cost stores have their own versions of runway fashion.Ìý This year, there’s a lot of sequins and sparkly skirts on offer ranging from all your favourite rainbow colours to subtle black skirts with silver little tweaks in the weave there.Ìý So, these are perfect, these skirts I’m talking about with the flecks of silver, they’re perfect from going to the office to your Christmas party.

Ìý

White

Why do you think particularly at Christmas more than at any other time – visually impaired people have got more freedom with fashion?

Ìý

Lulham

Well I think a big part of it is the texture, I mean we’re quite out there some of us visually impaired ladies, especially myself, and I love all the satin, the fur, the suede, the velvet – there’s so many different textures.Ìý And today, I am wearing a fully-fledged elf outfit.

Ìý

White

There are going to be pictures online.Ìý Can you describe it?

Ìý

Lulham

The boots are Santa boots, somebody asked me earlier if I’d actually stolen them off the big man himself.Ìý They’re suede red boots with white fur tops.Ìý Then I’ve got red tights, I’ve got an elf jumper dress which is green in the middle and red and white stripes on the sleeves – traditional elf dress – with bells hanging off it and a matching hat.

Ìý

White

Let’s hear you.

Ìý

Lulham

I mean how much fun is this?Ìý [laughter]

Ìý

White

Emma, are you impressed?

Ìý

Williams

Umm.

Ìý

Lulham

Oh, come on Emma.Ìý [laughter]

Ìý

White

Well, I tell you what Emma, we didn’t get you in to talk about that, we did get you to do the wrapping.Ìý I don’t think I’m doing too bad here.Ìý I’ve got it – look – this is presumably where the Sellotape comes in, is it?

Ìý

Williams

So, we’ve got the paper cut?

Ìý

White

Yeah.

Ìý

Williams

Okay.Ìý So, now we want to put our present on the bottom edge of the paper and what I would do is I would lift up the paper with the present and I would roll the paper round the present, as many times as it will go.

Ìý

White

Okay.Ìý [laughter] It’s a bit of a mess Emma, I’m afraid.

Ìý

Williams

Well try and keep it tight and just roll the present up the paper whilst keeping hold of the paper.

Ìý

White

Something’s fallen on the floor, not quite sure what.

Ìý

Williams

Well as long as it’s not the Sellotape.

Ìý

White

Well, let’s get to the – actually it might have been the Sellotape. [laughter] While I’m looking for the Sellotape…

Ìý

Lulham

We’d say you’re in a sticky situation…[laughter]

Ìý

White

I promised that we would have some of Lee Kumutat’s favourite pieces and this is the one that we think people would have chosen.Ìý We had so much response to this.Ìý And I think it was because it’s often looked at as a bit of a taboo because it was about eating out.Ìý We had, on the programme, social worker Richard Prior, a retired social worker and we also had a regular contributor to the programme – Susanna Hancock.Ìý Susanna sadly died so we will miss her contributions but she’s sounding here in very good form.

Ìý

Archive – Eating Out

Hancock

I mean I didn’t realise, until I talked to my mum, that actually there were messy eaters who were sighted, for instance my mum, who’s always spilling yoghurt or something down herself, whereas I never do.

Ìý

White

Is that where you get your calmness from, Richard, having been sighted therefore you know what a lot of messy eaters there are around?

Ìý

Prior

Yeah, I was just thinking that.Ìý I wonder if this is a congenitally blind thing, whereas having been sighted and only achieved blindness at 28 I knew how to eat and things.

Ìý

Hancock

Yeah, well we knew how to eat, we were taught how to eat from when we were children.Ìý My mum was extremely strict and if you weren’t holding your knife properly, she would give you a bang on the knuckle with her spoon or something, you know.

Ìý

Prior

There should be training for it.Ìý I was very lucky in that when I lost my sight the Manor House at Torquay was there, so, that was a residential unit and I was there for 12 weeks and if we had any problem with eating then there were ways and means to advise on how to get around it.Ìý So, you know you’d have crispy fried bread in the morning and you’d say to the person opposite – I’m about to cut my fried bread, get ready to catch it.

Ìý

Hancock

Oh, it does remind me of a story about David Blunkett, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me telling it because it’s in a book.Ìý Where he went to a restaurant one day and there was a big event, some formal do, and he was sitting next to somebody and he noticed that they had a little finger bowl beside their plate, to sort of wash their fingers and he thought – ooh, that’s a really good idea.Ìý And he said to his neighbour at the table – isn’t this a good idea, the fact that we’ve got these finger bowls to use if we need to wash our hands.Ìý And the bloke next to him said – actually David, you’re the only one who’s got one.

Ìý

Prior

Ahh – how awful.

Ìý

Hancock

Yes, that’s what I thought too.

Ìý

Prior

Yeah.

Ìý

White

Richard Prior and Susanna Hancock.

Ìý

Fern Lulham is here, before we come back to your fashion, have you got any eating out tips?Ìý I mean is it something you worry about when you’re…?

Ìý

Lulham

Yeah, I don’t know about tips.Ìý I am a messy eater.Ìý I don’t even know if it’s because I’m blind, I think it’s just the fact that I’m a messy eater and so also happen to have a visual impairment.Ìý The first date with my boyfriend we went to an Italian restaurant and we had spaghetti, I mean that’s going in the deep end…

Ìý

White

That was not a good move was it?

Ìý

Lulham

I know, he’s still with me.

Ìý

White

You’re just showing off.Ìý Emma, you are teaching daily living skills, presumably a daily living skill is eating decorously.

Ìý

Williams

We get students that come to New College and sometimes they might not even have been able to use a knife.Ìý So, yeah, we will start right from the beginning about their posture at the table, how they’ll sit with their tummy up against the table, so that actually then they cannot bend down and merely plant their face in their food.Ìý So, we will teach them how to use a knife and how to hold it quite far down, to hold your fork also quite far down with your index finger nearly on the back of the fork and how you can then use that to feel for your food around your plate.

Ìý

White

Fern, fashion tips.Ìý I’m almost in tears over here with this wrapping, so tell us a bit more about your fashion tips – accessories and things.

Ìý

Lulham

Yes, let me tell you what to wrap yourself in rather than your presents.

Ìý

White

Oh, very clever.

Ìý

Lulham

Too clever.Ìý There’s lots of small backpacks around this season, which are perfect for keeping all your little bits in, to also make your hands free because if you’ve got a guide dog, like I have, I’ve got Nancy in one hand, you need your hands to do things with.Ìý Right, hats for ladies we’ve got overly big pom poms still in fashion with added sparkle for Christmas.Ìý Can you pull off a hat Peter?

Ìý

White

No.Ìý

Ìý

Lulham

Well just leave it at that…

Ìý

White

Probably not, no.

Ìý

Lulham

No?Ìý I bet you look great in them.Ìý For the guys, tartan is still popular for the season, along with the usual novelty festive jumpers, socks, hats and scarfs and I’ve actually got a festive jumper here which also plays a tune, it has got Rudolf the Red Nose Reindeer, he has got a sequinned red nose and when you press his nose he sings a few little Christmas hits to you.

Ìý

Musical jumper playing

Ìý

Hey.

Ìý

White

Rudolph on speed, yeah.Ìý I’m going to wrench us back to serious things.Ìý We’ve been talking about Lee and her contributions and during the 2016 conflict between Gaza and Israel in the Middle East we interviewed two blind women, one on each side of the war.

Ìý

Archive – Two Blind Women in Gaza and Israel clip

Shang

Another sound that we hear as well is explosions, whether it’s the rockets or the interceptions, so that sometimes we hear that before the sirens.Ìý We are fortunate in that we actually have a shelter in our flat. So, it’s a matter of walking 10 feet.Ìý

Ìý

White

And what would happen if you were out?

Ìý

Shang

Well this is the thing.Ìý We kind of stopped going out except for very, very necessary things because I didn’t want to be caught out and not know where to go and it’s very, very hard to just follow other people or to see signs or things like that.Ìý And I found it very disruptive, even if one of us went to walk the dog or to throw out the rubbish, it was scary, I just wanted everyone to be inside and it’s all consuming, it really is.

Ìý

White

And Dalal, what about you, what about warnings?

Ìý

Al-taji

Actually, we don’t have the warnings and we don’t have sirens like what Naama was talking about.Ìý We just hear the warning and because we’ve been – I mean I’ve been living in Gaza for around 18 years now and we’ve seen two wars before that and I’ve been living in Lebanon so I know where – I mean the sounds that come are different.Ìý I know that the warnings from the sea, due to the sound I hear that it’s from the sea.Ìý Another thing that we have is the drones, we call it [Arabic name] in Arabic because it gives [indistinct words] the drones and that’s basically here all the time, I mean I can hear it now.Ìý we don’t have shelters where people could just go to because there’s no place for them.Ìý Of course, we keep the windows open, we have to keep windows open because if any bombing happens and it shakes the glass then doesn’t break.

Ìý

White

Well, it was a wonderful bit of radio.

Ìý

Still with us is Emma Williams.Ìý I’ve had rather a lot to contend with here, Emma, along with the wrapping but I have found the Sellotape.

Ìý

Williams

Ooh yippee.

Ìý

White

I’ve also found that Lee Kumutat couldn’t bear me struggling any longer.

Ìý

Kumutat

I couldn’t watch, it was…

Ìý

White

It was too painful.Ìý

Ìý

Kumutat

Do you want some help – I’ll do the Sellotape bit for you.

Ìý

White

Okay, you do the Sellotape.

Ìý

Williams

So, have you got the paper wrapped around the present?

Ìý

White

Well sort of.Ìý It’s at this point that I have to – because I’ve been embarrassed here because Lee’s come in and the present’s for her.Ìý [laughter]

Ìý

So, you’ve given our game away Emma Williams.

Ìý

Williams

It’s not my fault!

Ìý

White

So, in a way if she wraps it up.Ìý Just tell us what we should do alright.

Ìý

Kumutat

You know, I’m used to being a producer, I could wrap my own present if you want.

Ìý

White

No, I don’t want you to.Ìý I don’t want you to.

Ìý

Kumutat

Well here’s a bit of sticky tape and I promise I won’t look.

Ìý

Williams

Okay, so now you should have roughly an inch or so of paper hanging over each end of the present. [laughter] Or a bit more or a bit less.

Ìý

White

Well, yeah, okay.

Ìý

Kumutat

I’m sensing there there’s about half a foot.Ìý And while you’re concentrating on that, do I get to say something?

Ìý

White

You do.

Ìý

Kumutat

Here’s your tape.

Ìý

White

Thank you.Ìý Go on.

Ìý

Kumutat

All really, I want to say is that I’ve had almost 11 years of involvement with In Touch.Ìý It’s taught me a lot about what I can do as a person but mostly it’s taught me about what visually impaired people are doing day-to-day – their struggles, their misfortunes and triumphs.Ìý And I do want to say, I’m going to get it out before I get teary, that working with Peter White has been a joy, a pain in the neck and a privilege and thank you to everybody who’s had involvement during my time here.

Ìý

White

Okay.Ìý Well I’m filling up now, so we’d better end the show.Ìý That is all we’ve got time for tonight but there are two more programmes from me – on Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve – we’re going to have episodes where we’ve gathered four blind musicians together to talk music, stereotypes and careers.Ìý I’m going to have to give Lee her present off air.

Ìý

That’s it from me, from Lee Kumutat, from Emma, from Fern and the team, goodbye.

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý