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TX:Ìý 31.12.2019Ìý 2040-2100

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PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý LEE KUMUTAT

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White

Hello.Ìý Welcome to the second in our two-part exploration of music as a career, as a hobby, as a passion for blind people.Ìý Well, if you were with us last week, you’ll know that we explored the musical lives of flutist performer and teacher, Liz Hargest and keyboardist, guitarist, singer, producer Shaun Haywood.Ìý You also heard performer and composer Andre Louis and singer Anne Wilkins.

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And Anne, let’s start with you.Ìý Singing for us first, just tell us what you’re going to do.

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Wilkins

I’m going to sing Mariae Wiegenlied by Max Reger.

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Music – Mariae Wiegenlied

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Applause

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White

Anne, thank you very much indeed.Ìý Not a dry eye in the house.Ìý Rather like Shaun, some of your musical experiences at school, for example, weren’t exactly encouraging.

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Wilkins

We’d always had a piano in the house, from a time I can remember, in fact I still use the same piano.Ìý And my parents asked when I went to school at five, whether I could have piano lessons because they recognised that I had some musical ability.Ìý But I had to wait until I was about eight before I started piano lessons.

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White

So, without that encouragement at school, how did music become such a big part of your life?

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Wilkins

It was always a big part of my life because my family enjoyed music and my grandfather had been a musician as well.Ìý And I started to do piano exams when I was about 13, 14 and then there was some pressure from my parents, quite rightly, for me to think about what I would do as a job.

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White

Yeah, because you did, you had a sensible career actually in the end, didn’t you?

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Wilkins

I did, I did, yes, very.

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White

Tell us about that then.

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Wilkins

I worked for over 30 years as firstly, a shorthand typist, then an administration assistant for South Wales Police.

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White

But – so what were you doing musically at that time?

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Wilkins

Musically, I’d given up music, I do remember clearly telling people that I’d given up music.Ìý The reason was I’d failed a grade five theory exam and to fail at the one thing I thought I was really good at was, as a teenager, devastating.Ìý And I gave up music completely for about two years.Ìý And when I left RNC, which was at Shrewsbury then…

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White

That’s the Royal National College, which I think was called the Royal Normal College at that point, for some reason.

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Wilkins

Yes, it was, yes, yes.Ìý About a year and a half later I’d settled into my sensible job and I met some family friends who were singers and we had a musical evening at someone’s home in west Wales and I joined in something that they sang.Ìý And one of them said – why don’t you have some singing lessons.Ìý And that just – it wasn’t just that comment because I’d been interested in what they were doing for some time, since I’d met these people and I was sort of fascinated by it all.Ìý But I did have some singing lessons and then applied as a part-time student to the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama and then met the teacher that I currently study with and I’ve never looked back.

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White

And ended up winning the Eisteddfod?

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Wilkins

I did, I won the David Ellis Memorial Blue Ribbon at the National Eisteddfod of Wales, which is one of the most prestigious competitions for singers in Wales and I won that in 2012 when it was held in the Vale of Glamorgan.

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White

And like Liz Hargest, who we heard from in the first programme, you got into teaching.

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Wilkins

I did, yes.

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White

And just to examine that a big.Ìý I mean singing isn’t just about voice, is it, it’s about conveying emotion, sometimes inhabiting a character and using your whole body…

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Wilkins

Your whole body yes.

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White

So, how did – first of all – how did you take to that kind of performance and also how do you teach it?

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Wilkins

Well yes.Ìý I’m very lucky that I have a wonderful singing teacher who has become, over the years, a great friend and she always tells me if there’s anything about presentation that she thinks I ought to know and all sorts of things – how to look, how to stand, what you should or shouldn’t do when you sing – frowning or looking too serious or putting one foot in front of the other too far forward – all sorts of things that I might do that perhaps other singers wouldn’t normally do.Ìý The other thing that is sometimes an issue with blind musicians is you don’t have eye contact with your audience and my friend said – your smile is your eye contact with your audience.Ìý And I thought that was great advice.

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White

You had to learn it and then pass it on.

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Wilkins

Yes, this is something I’m still dealing with because you mentioned touching people – I always ask if they’ll allow me to.Ìý But I always felt uncomfortable about it until quite recently when I was working with some students in Hong Kong and I had to show them…

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White

Because they were blind weren’t they?

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Wilkins

Yes, yes.

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White

Whereas up until then you tended to teach sighted people?

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Wilkins

Yes.

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White

Can I bring Liz back in on this because I think you, on the whole, avoid touching, don’t you?

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Hargest

I don’t avoid it, if I need to touch, I do.Ìý Picking up on Anne, I’ve had to learn about stage presence and how to move on stage because if you’re blind you don’t see how other flutists move or how they bring their pianists in.

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White

Can we talk a bit more broadly about this issue of performance for blind people?Ìý I mean – I’d like to bring Shaun in on this – because so much of the sort of music you do, that must be about look isn’t it?

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Haywood

Very much because that’s what it’s about, it’s about that USP and getting it over.Ìý And going back to the previous thing about blindness.Ìý In my case, now, I think it is a use to me.Ìý At first, when I was creating, I was thinking – god, do I look – am I looking the wrong way – are the hands going the wrong way.Ìý But people, I think, are fascinated when they come to see these pre-shows I’ve been doing in that it’s like the guy – is he going to score the goal, you know, because I’ve got a rack of pedals on the floor, I’ve got a vocal unit attached to the mic stand, I’ve got two microphones, I’ve got a keyboard to the side as well and I’ve got an electric guitar round my neck.Ìý So, it’s like, every time I go – ooh is it, oop ooh he did it – you know.Ìý So, I think there is that – and that part I’ve had to accept and use.

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White

It sounds like you’re being successful, you see.Ìý I’ve certainly had friends in the music business with great musical talent who feel they’ve been held back by the way they look on stage.

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Haywood

I felt it sometimes, you know, and it’s these key things that give you the confidence, it’s an inner thing of yourself and you go – do I look okay, do I look terrible – you’re dealing with your imposter, all that stuff.Ìý And you have to accept that when you’re in that music you’re just in it.Ìý And I think if you shine truly in the music, being absolutely well practised and on point, then when you do the performance that will shine through you.

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White

Andre Louis, do keyboardists have to have image?

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Louis

I will always leave my house looking as pristine as I can.Ìý I think that’s really important because the thing is the way people see you at first look and they perceive you is going to last through the rest of the day and for any gig that you may get with this person in a later date.Ìý And the kind of music I do maybe it’s less important.Ìý Now I don’t think it is, personally, but because I’m in bands most of the time, the way I look, even though I wouldn’t allow it to be, wouldn’t matter as much.Ìý And the thing is I’ve turned up at gigs in a shirt and trousers and most people are in tracksuits and I’m the odd one out.

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White

So, you’re the smart one?

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Louis

But I don’t care, I’m going to look good whether you do or not.

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White

So, your musical beginnings, what were they?

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Louis

A very cheap keyboard at three and apparently, I learnt to play the EastEnders theme – Go ´óÏó´«Ã½!Ìý And yeah, later on, apparently, I’d had lessons when I went to Worcester, between ’92 and 2000…

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White

That’s a school for visually impaired borders, yeah.

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Louis

Yeah it is.Ìý I didn’t actually enjoy piano lessons at school at all because I could never remember braille music.Ìý I was taught it and I promptly forgot it, when I walked out the door the last time.Ìý And I basically, then, became self-taught and learnt everything by ear.

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White

It is difficult, I can still remember hiding at school because I couldn’t learn stuff…

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Louis

I think I did the same.

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White

…by braille music, I did in the toilets to avoid my… Shaun, do you use braille music at all?

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Haywood

No, I have a joke about that because people do that, we were talking about the Steve Waller thing earlier, whatever, all that stuff you know and just identify the one thing – we’re all put into these blocks and they say – do you read braille music – I say – no – well, it’s fascinating, how do people do that.Ìý And I say or they play the piano – how do they touch – and I’ll say – they read it with their tongue.

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White

That is – I mean that is the problem that you can’t read braille with your hands and play a piano or a guitar or anything else.Ìý Did you just ignore all that stuff then Andre?

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Louis

I was made to try and learn it and I’d read a passage and I’d forget what I’d read from beginning to end because it took me long to understand it.Ìý And it was like my teacher then just said – right, I will teach you by ear.Ìý And that worked better.Ìý So, I did grade three classical, grade four jazz and then when I left Worcester to go to RNC in Hereford, not Shrewsbury…

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White

It had moved by then.

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Louis

Yeah, it had got up and walked away – I studied sound engineering and that was really fun for two years.

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White

What about writing music?

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Louis

When I was young, I would just sort of play things onto tape because that was the thing you did in the ‘80s and I was like – ooh, sound, let’s make it happen.Ìý It wasn’t until I went to school that I was able to actually multi-track my stuff, so I could have piano on one track and bass and drums and all that.Ìý And I actually still have all of these really pathetic entry level things I used to do on disc as midi-files, no longer on disc of course.

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White

Well you’ve mentioned technology, Shaun, I know, is very much into what’s going on.Ìý How big a part has technological development played in your career and has it widened the range of ways in which you can involve yourself in music?

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Louis

Technology has definitely played a huge part in, particularly the last three years for me, because I was the first blind person in the world to see Native Instruments products become accessible and Native Instruments, for those of you who don’t know, is one of the music industry’s largest companies with a huge amount of sample libraries and things like that.Ìý And as a result, then, I was using hardware at that point but I used to have a problem with hardware that you could get two pieces from the same manufacturer and you’d learn the menu system on one and you go to the next one and it was completely different.Ìý Such things as ‘menu down’, ‘down enter’, ‘left enter’ does one thing on one thing and it might format your disc on another, so don’t do it.

White

More broadly, because you’re already losing me…

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Louis

This is the point, I was losing myself, this was the problem I had.

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White

Technology is… I mean we heard in another career only a few weeks ago on the programme about physiotherapy and the fact that it was driving some people out of the business.Ìý I just wonder if with the speed of developments and everything is it all pluses – the technology – as far as music’s concerned?

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Louis

No, it’s not all pluses but I think at the moment where we are in – well not even 2019 for much longer – it’s more pluses than it is minuses and I think that’s a really, really good thing at this point.

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White

Shaun?

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Haywood

Sorry?

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White

Sorry, you’d dropped off.Ìý No, is technology all good, is it all pluses as far as blind people are concerned?

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Haywood

Again, like what Andre said, up, down, left, right – you’re memorising.Ìý It’s just – you spend most of your life trying to avoid Alzheimer’s I think, it’s really working your brain.

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White

Andre, you’ve got some tech here with you, quite a lot actually, you almost needed a removal van to bring yourself in here.Ìý And you’re a one-man band, so what have you chosen to play for us?

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Louis

This was a little impromptu thing I thought up as I was sitting at the keyboard this morning.Ìý So, here it is.

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White

You mean you haven’t rehearsed and you’re just improvising?

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Louis

Yeah, basically.

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White

Okay, take it away.

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Music

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Applause

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White

Andre Louis, how do you fit all this in because you’ve got a young family, young children I think, how do you manage to do it all and work and stay sane?

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Louis

Staying sane – I don’t know about that.Ìý I mean I’m still a kid at heart.Ìý I’ve got a 10-year-old and a seven-year-old and yeah, they’re great, you know, they think I’m supposedly by the way – their words not mine – I’m the best musician in the world, which is just so touching and I love ‘em to pieces.Ìý But trying to keep them and behave like that and make them still fell like that when they see me on videos and on TV and on Instagram is hard work but good work.Ìý And so, it keeps me on the straight and narrow, behaving like a good person, doing as many gigs as I can and just trying to achieve and better achieve all the time, you know.

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White

If somebody wants to start on the 1st January 2020 and say a New Year’s resolution, what’s one bit of advice you’d offer them?Ìý Shaun?

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Haywood

No matter how many times you get that door slammed in your face, if you believe in it, keep going it and the longer those years go on you might start listening to other people and they’re telling you – oh no, you want to go this way – and if it doesn’t feel right, do not waste your time.Ìý Time is precious.Ìý And make the music that you want to make and then you’ll be authentic and you’re you.

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White

Liz Hargest.

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Hargest

I think you have to believe in yourself first because if you don’t, no one else will.

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White

And just be determined basically.Ìý Andre, one bit of advice?

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Louis

Push forward and don’t look back and become what you know you can become.

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White

When you say don’t look back – how do you mean?

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Louis

Because everyday that you look back you think about how you were this time yesterday, think about what you can be this time tomorrow.

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White

Okay.Ìý And Anne, you’ve talked about discouragement that you experienced, what would your advice be?

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Wilkins

A very small point – don’t be put off by braille music, there is a good side to it.

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Hargest

I’d…that, there is, I use it.

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Wilkins

There is, yeah, there is.

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White

Right.Ìý And one bit of advice from me.Ìý Never agree to play a gig for free, except this once on In Touch.Ìý So, can we perhaps persuade you all to play us out.Ìý I wish you all a very happy New Year and thank all my guests:Ìý Liz Hargest, Shaun Haywood, Andre Louis, Anne Wilkins – thank you all very much indeed.

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Music