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IN TOUCH – The New Elizabeth Line; Do You See What I See?

TX:Ìý 14.06.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý It’s pretty obvious that if you want the built environment to be accessible for disabled people by far the best way is to put the right features in from the ground up.Ìý But it’s not often that you get the chance to do that.Ìý However, at the 40 plus stations which make up the Elizabeth line, which crosses London from west to east, they have had that opportunity.Ìý So, how well have they grasped it?

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Well, I’m here on Tottenham Court Road station, in the Elizabeth line part of the station, to find out.Ìý Later in the programme, we’re going to be visiting the art gallery just a few miles to the south of here, down in Wandsworth, where visually impaired people have been collaborating with professional artists to give people an idea of what the world looks like to them.

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But first, I’m joined by Clive Wood of the Guide Dogs campaign team, who’s been involved in the business of trying to provide consistent features for blind and partially sighted travellers on the Elizabeth line.

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So, Clive, first of all, what kinds of features are we talking about?

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Wood

The stations are like cathedrals actually, they’re massive, they’ve got high ceilings, they’re very open and airy.Ìý They’ve got good lighting in them.Ìý And there’s step free access from all 41 stations from street to platform, which is wonderful.Ìý And that’s not just for people with mobility issues, that’s also for other passengers, including blind and partially sighted people, who prefer not to use an escalator, or who have got a guide dog who isn’t trained to use an escalator.Ìý We think that’s really positive.

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White

So, what is less positive, if you like and what haven’t they done because I mean they’ve spent £19 billion on it, so you might expect that they could have done just about everything with that?

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Wood

When Transport for London have taken on the Elizabeth line from Crossrail, it was handed over to them as a project, there were some things such as signage.Ìý We don’t think that there’s enough wayfinding that’s going to allow people with a sight loss to be able to navigate round the stations because they are enormous and we’d like to see some good tactile being used at the entrances to the train because they have a big glass screen that blocks you off from the line, so when the train comes in those screen doors open but it’s very difficult to know where they are unless you actually can see.Ìý So, it’s a bit of a guess, you have to hang around and listen to see where those entrances are.Ìý The colour contrast on the trains isn’t great, so you can’t see if you’ve got some vision, the handrails, the grabrails, which is really important.Ìý And the one other thing that would have been really lovely and would have helped a lot of people with sight loss, is knowing which side the doors are going to open when they come into a platform.

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White

Right.Ìý Well, that could be done with announcements, couldn’t it?

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Wood

Absolutely.

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White

I mean that’s just training, isn’t it?

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Wood

The announcements are automated, so they can be made to make that announcement.Ìý I think there was a concern from Transport for London that if they have too much information, because the stops are very close to each other, that might have caused a problem.Ìý But we think this is really important for people with sight loss and others, I should say, because those trains aren’t in the platforms for very long.

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White

Well, I suppose the next thing we ought to do is go for a ride, isn’t it?

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It’s so quiet.

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Wood

I know.

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Train announcement

The next station Farringdon.Ìý Exit for trains to Gatwick and Luton airports.

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White

And that, presumably, is where you’d like them to have said which side you would exit the next station?

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Wood

Absolutely.Ìý And I think it would make a real difference.Ìý And, you know, it’s only a few words.

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They have a sound so you can hear where the doors are opening.Ìý Could you determine which side it was?

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White

It’s a bit tricky if you’re sitting side on – as we are.

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Wood

Sideways – there we are.

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White

Er left?Ìý The trouble is acoustically that sort of noise is not very directional, is it?

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Wood

No.Ìý And, of course, we’re travelling, at the moment, mid-afternoon, so the train isn’t too busy, you generally will get a seat but the great thing that they’ve introduced, which we feel is really helpful, is that actually you can walk through the whole length of the train.

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White

So, that’s good for blind people but good for everybody.

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Wood

Good for everybody, absolutely, yeah absolutely.Ìý And this is what we’re saying about inclusive design, Peter, it’s not just for people with sight loss, it not just for the wider disabled community, it’s for everybody.Ìý Everybody is going to benefit.

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White

Clive Wood from Guide Dogs, alighting with me on Liverpool Street.

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Well, listening to our journey has been Mark Evers, he’s Chief Customer Officer with Transport for London, who are now responsible for the Elizabeth line.

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Mark, as you heard there, much to like from Clive but still more to do, that was his verdict, I think.Ìý Can I ask you, first, about that absence of tactile paving on the edges of the platform as you board the trains?Ìý That seems surprising, given the concern that’s been expressed, on this programme amongst other places, about the slowness of putting tactile paving on mainline and other underground lines.Ìý Wouldn’t this have been an ideal opportunity to do this right from the start?

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Evers

A lot of work has gone into trying to ensure that the Elizabeth line is accessible.Ìý Obviously, within the central section stations, on the Elizabeth line, there are platform edge doors that provide additional safety, so that certainly there is no way that an individual can fall down on to the platform.Ìý But, I guess, we will get lots of lived experiences of people making use of the service and then we will sort of pick up that and sort of try to make improvements in the future where that’s necessary.

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White

One thing I think it would be easy for you to do something about, which really resonated with me, was that point about announcements to tell you which side you’d exit the train.Ìý I mean when there’s a lot of pushing and shoving and you’re a blind person, you’re a long way from the door, that would be really helpful, to know which side you were going to get off.Ìý That’s easy to do, isn’t it?

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Evers

Well, it’s certainly something which with sort of new rolling stocks are the trains that are on the system, we’ve got better information with both sort of audio and visual displays, because we are mindful that you do need to provide customers with that information.Ìý Obviously, as you sort of heard in the recording there, there is a noise that sort of sounds within the environment to indicate where the doors are opening and when they’re opening.Ìý Certainly, on some of our tube lines we provide that directional information.Ìý There’s this balance, that we’re always trying to strike, between the right amount of information, that’s helpful and bombarding people with too much information at key decision making points.Ìý So, again, it’s one that we can reflect upon as people start to use the Elizabeth line in greater numbers and if there’s a really good case to make those improvements, and that’s something which we can certainly look to do.

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White

Well, my personal view, is that’s a really helpful bit of information and it won’t do anybody else any harm.Ìý One final thing, I mean some people will say, this project began 13 years ago, it’s cost £19 billion, as we’ve said, in spite of all the good things, couldn’t we have expected the kinds of features that you and I have been talking about being in from the start?

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Evers

The job isn’t done and there is more work that we can do and I think that certainly, as people use the Elizabeth line, but also start to use the Elizabeth line alongside other parts of the transport network, I’m sure that we’ll learn new things as well and certainly the job is by no means done and it’s something which we’re committing to, as an organisation, doing more of in the future.

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White

Mark Evers, thank you very much indeed.

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Well, to get to our next story was a bit of a culture shock, actually.Ìý Back to the old trains on the Northern line down to Nine Elms to an exhibition at the Outlined Gallery in Wandsworth, with the intriguing title Do you see what I see?

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The exhibition was a result of visually impaired and fully sighted professional artists working together to try to show what people with a variety of visual impairments see when they look at art.Ìý And the professional artists are sometimes in for some surprises.

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Well, I eavesdropped as Samantha Leftwich peered – I don’t think she’ll mind me using that term – at a painting by professional artist Lindsey Whitelaw and told Lindsey what it looked like to her.

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Leftwich

So, on the bottom lefthand side, towards the corner, I see a silhouette of what looks like a face, in particular, maybe, the Queen’s face?Ìý You know like on a coin, that sort of… and there’s sort of a black bit that goes up around the top of her head, which I see as her crown.Ìý And as it goes further down, I see a silhouette which is jet black of what I describe as Mosses parting the sea.Ìý The sort of bit of her crown looks like his staff, that he’s holding up in the air.

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Whitelaw

So, Mosses is standing the middle…

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Leftwich

In the middle, at the bottom.

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Whitelaw

It’s brilliant.

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White

Now the problem that people are going to have with what we’ve just heard is to figure out what’s going on.Ìý I have found it difficult to figure out because I haven’t actually got any sight and people listening to this will find it difficult.Ìý Lindsey Whitelaw, can you just explain the process that was going on with you and Sam?

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Whitelaw

When she was describing what she saw, I was hastily interpreting it with my paint.

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White

So, she – Sam is looking at a painting, describing what it looks like to her and then you’re changing it, is that right?

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Whitelaw

I’m painting…

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White

You’re trying to paint what she – Sam says?

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Whitelaw

That’s right, yes.

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White

Why?

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Leftwich

Well, I suppose, maybe, that’s where I come in.Ìý I have clearly a very overactive imagination.Ìý With the vision that I do have, I’ve got voids and patches, when I look at something I can see small bits and I have to piece together and I think my brain maybe slightly overreacts.Ìý So, I always say that my life has become more interesting since I haven’t been able to see properly because actually it makes up things that aren’t actually there.

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White

Yeah, because I was going to ask you that, what do you get out of this, of the process?Ìý I can see it’s quite interesting, I suppose this is to explain it to other people, is it?Ìý What’s it for?

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Leftwich

Yeah, I think that was the whole point of this sort of process was to show the different ways that people with lots of different vision impairments see and it has been really interesting because Lindsey’s worked with a number of different visually impaired people and we’ve all seen completely different things in the same piece of artwork.Ìý So, we’ve done the process before, I think it was back in 2021…

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Whitelaw

We were about to…

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Leftwich

Twenty twenty – twenty-one?

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Whitelaw

We were going to meet at the Tate and I was going to show some paintings, we were going to do that and then lockdown came, so I sent you some photographs of my paintings and you described.Ìý The hilarious one was I had some Allen keys that I’d painted and you looked at it and said – Well, I see a spider – a tarantula on a pistol.Ìý And I was going – this is amazing because there is no tarantula.Ìý But anyway, so I’ve painted a tarantula on a pistol.

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Leftwich

Yeah and it was really, really exciting to kind of wait until we showed it at the Bloomsbury Art Exhibition last year, that was the first time I actually got to see Lindsey’s interpretation of my description of the interpretation of Lindsey’s original piece of work.Ìý So, it was really – yeah, it was incredible to go – yes that’s exactly what was in my mind when I described it to you.

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White

So, it did actually work from that point of view, it did look like you’d…

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Leftwich

How I remembered it.

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White

…been seeing in your mind?

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Leftwich

Yeah.

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White

People do think blindness and partial sight is all one thing until they experience it but of sight getting less, rather than of a different quality or character.Ìý Do people misunderstand a lot what you can see and what you can’t see?

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Leftwich

Yeah, I mean I quite often get mistaken for a puppy raiser because they say – you’re young and your eyes they don’t look like you’re blind.Ìý Being able to show people what it’s like for me to see has been incredible and so rewarding because people have given me feedback and said – I never knew that that is how you saw, Sam.Ìý For a sighted person to be able to actually see what it’s like for me to see, I think has been more powerful for the sighted community than maybe the vision impaired community but it’s been an amazing experience, definitely.

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White

Lindsey and Samantha, thank you both very much.

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Well, Elizabeth Manuel who leads this group of blind and partially sighted artists, has her own paintings in the exhibition.Ìý Elizabeth was a judge until all that ended with a catastrophic stroke which resulted in the loss of most of her vision.Ìý Art, for Elizabeth, has proved a saviour.Ìý She told me how she got involved with this group.

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Manuel

Well, I was asked over two years ago through the Royal National Institute of the Blind if I would like to take part in an exhibition which was called Do you see what I see?Ìý And that had resonance with me, as someone who’s mostly blind, because one of the challenges is always trying to show and demonstrate to people exactly what it’s like to have sight loss.

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White

So, have you gone through this process yourself?Ìý I mean, we’ve just been listening to Sam and Lindsey working together but have you actually done this too?

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Manuel

Well, I have painted some of Lindsey’s paintings, which is really mad, for a blind brain injured person to take on the challenge of trying to copy a professional artist’s work.Ìý I have painted what I can see of the three paintings that she gave to me.Ìý And over the years I’ve kept some paints but because I was a barrister, I had two young children, I was leading a very busy life and then I became a judge at 39, so my life was always full on and I didn’t have time, really, to take on anymore art or do anything.Ìý It was only when I had a brain haemorrhage and a stroke in 2011, when I was 46, that I was presented, bizarrely, with an opportunity to go back to my art.Ìý

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White

I mean we should say this stroke was a pretty catastrophic stroke, wasn’t it?Ìý And sight loss was only one element of it.

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Manuel

It was, Peter.Ìý I had, what’s called, a GCS of three which has, I think, a 99% mortality rate in most cases.Ìý And my then husband was told to go home and tell my teenage girls that mummy would probably be dead by morning.Ìý I was in a coma for two weeks after the surgery and when I came round, I was paralysed all down the left and I’d lost the entirety of the left field of vision in each eye and also some in my right.Ìý But I also had diplopia, so I had double vision, which meant that it was almost impossible for me really to see or read.

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White

And I ought to say all this time you were having a very rough time domestically as well, weren’t you?

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Manuel

I think it’s fair to say I had no support from my then husband and just criticism.Ìý So, that was really hard because I felt bad enough about myself but being told you’re stupid or you bump into things or… because you can’t watch TV with the rest of the family, sadly that was the story until 2019.

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White

As you say, things have changed radically for you.Ìý What part has the art and this work that you’re doing now, what part has that played in that?

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Manuel

It’s been significant and as I sit here and look at the four paintings I’ve done of my brain journey, what I see and what I hope everyone else sees is that through art it speaks a thousand words, it doesn’t just speak the words that are on my paintings.Ìý But also, by telling my story, that was healing me.Ìý But the process of doing it is so therapeutic, so mindful.

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White

So, if people come to this exhibition, what will they see, what’s the sort of totality of what they’ll see?

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Manuel

It’s not just what you see on the canvas, it’s what you feel.Ìý I’m really conscious that people with visual impairments coming here may not feel that they’re going to be able to get as much from it as they would but there’s audio descriptions, there’s people on hand, always, to explain.Ìý And sighted people and visually impaired people will be able to see that sight loss covers a very wide spectrum of experience.

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White

Elizabeth Manuel.

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The exhibition – Do you see what I see? – is on at the Outlined Gallery in Wandsworth until 25th June.Ìý

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And that’s it for today.Ìý Do keep your comments and suggestions coming.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.Ìý Museums and birdsong on the agenda next week.Ìý

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Simon Highfield, goodbye.

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