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IN TOUCH – Blind Adventurers

TX:Ìý 20.06.2023Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý FERN LULHAM

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White

Good evening.Ìý A few weeks back we featured some of the gentler joys of walking, as a recreation, if you’re visually impaired.Ìý Walking alone in open country can be quite challenging, especially if you’re totally blind and it was good to discover that there were a number of ways for people to join groups who enjoy a gentle stroll through the countryside.Ìý But, of course, it doesn’t have to be gentle and, as we often discover on In Touch, blindness or partial sight does not remove some people’s thirst for adventure and risk.

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Well, we have two examples joining us today.Ìý One is well known to In Touch, travel organiser, entrepreneur and now well-established TV adventurer, Amar Latif and one new to In Touch but someone who discovered that walking and walking in some pretty dangerous places completely changed his initial despair at losing his sight.

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Clip

Between the rock and the rockface there’s a gap…

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Yeah.

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You’re stepping across that gap to the chain.

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How far would you say the gap is?

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It’s a two to three foot, stepover but we’re going to have it all covered, you’re going to roped on, as soon as you get over Ben’s going to clip you on but it’s a leap of faith.

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White

Well, that was Wayne Pugh and we’ll find out more about his leap of faith a little later in the programme. ÌýBut Amar first.

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Inevitably, not in this country, just explain where you are now and what you’re up to.

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Latif

Oh, do you want people to hate me?Ìý I am currently in Bali in Indonesia, I’m just near a beach, actually, I can hear the waves from my room but I’ll stop short there, shall I?

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White

Yeah, we don’t want anymore of that.Ìý I wanted to come to you first, though, because you’ve just taken on a role which, at first sight, sounds rather tame for you – President of the Ramblers Association.Ìý Is rambling really something which attracts Amar Latif, who’s hacked his way across the Nicaraguan jungle, yonked thousands of miles through the Australia outback, are you really a rambler?

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Latif

Well, actually, Peter, you know what my initial walks, I used to love challenging walks where I’m climbing 5,000-foot volcanoes and doing all sorts of things, like you said, in Nicaragua.Ìý But now, like the idea of a nice walk is something that I can really engage all my senses with and feel present in the moment, you know, when I’m out walking, feeling the sun on my back, I feel the ground beneath my feet, I hear the birds, the smell of wild flowers, if it’s that time of the year.Ìý And that has a real big effect on me.Ìý So, yeah, Amar Latif does like rambling as well.

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White

Have you got a special place because, I mean, we’re used to seeing you in ridiculously dangerous places but have you got somewhere which is gentle and appeals to the softer side?

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Latif

Oh gosh, yeah, I mean, there’s so many lovely places that I’ve been in.Ìý I mean I live in Leeds, at the moment, so, just outside Leeds is the gateway to the Dales, the beautiful Yorkshire Dales and I love going out there.Ìý Nidderdale is one of the Dales and I love walking out there, it’s like at the end, so it’s quite quiet.Ìý And it’s funny because being blind, when you go with a different person, they always, inevitably, take you a different route. ÌýSo, it almost feels like I’m doing a different walk every time.

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White

And yet, of course, you’re talking there about walking with other people but we still hear stories, like the one Dee Jones told us a few weeks back:

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Jones

This one young woman who said she approached the Ramblers who said that she didn’t think that she would walk quickly enough for them.Ìý You know, all those assumptions that people make.Ìý Maybe the world’s changing a bit more in that respect.

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White

Amar, is the world changing in that respect and is it changing fast enough?

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Latif

Well, it perhaps hasn’t changed much but, you know, having a president of the Ramblers who is blind will, hopefully, make people realise that blind people, just like anybody else, we want to go out on adventurous walks, gentle walks and, hopefully, it’ll inspire people and encourage people to actually do it as well, you know, regardless of whether you’re blind or you’re from a different background, you know, my parents are from Pakistan and sometimes that section of society don’t go out walking, maybe the image doesn’t fit.Ìý So, for various reasons, people can’t walk or don’t think that they can and, hopefully, with my appointment there that will help.

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White

What plans do you have for opening up opportunities for visually impaired walkers?

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Latif

Basically, I’ve just been appointed a few months ago and, you know, I’m really excited.Ìý I’ve created a video for the tour leaders of these walks, for the Ramblers, to show how to guide a blind person.Ìý I mean what you have to understand is that the leaders of the Ramblers, they are actually volunteers, they’re just members of the public, that decide they want to volunteer their time to lead the trips.Ìý I guess the important thing is if you are blind and you want to join a rambling group or any other walking group, I would say absolutely do it.Ìý But it’s so important to communicate well, just so that it’s not a surprise, so suddenly you just turn up and perhaps that person hasn’t got experience of blindness then it can be quite difficult.

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White

Well, we’ll come back to that and some of your plans.Ìý But if anyone is still in any doubt about blind people’s keenness to take on challenging experiences, they need to hear the story of Wayne Pugh.

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Wayne, let’s go back to the beginning, before we talk about some of your more dangerous exploits.Ìý Just explain about your losing your sight and the situation that left you in.

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Pugh

It was about 13 years ago, I believe.Ìý It was New Year’s Day. ÌýI’d driven me mum and dad to a working man’s club because my brother was singing and I was having pains in the back of my eyes and I just thought it was an headache or a migraine or something along them lines, so I just kept on taking painkillers, thinking I’d be okay.Ìý I drove home that night and took everyone else home, then woke up the day after unable to see anything at all.

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White

So, it was literally out of the blue.Ìý I mean had you had any warning that this might happen?

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Pugh

In my eyes, like, when I was looking, I think I could see like little things appearing from time to time but I just thought stress, work, I just thought it’s something or nothing.Ìý And to leave me totally not being able to see anything at all depression hit very, very fast.

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White

What effect did that have on you because we hear people on this programme who kind of pass it off as just another of those events in life, I don’t think it was like for you was it?

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Pugh

No many a night I just sat wide awake thinking basically how I’m going to end me life, so I don’t have to live any longer because I couldn’t just go outside and do what I wanted to do anymore, I couldn’t go and jump in me car that I’d been driving for years.Ìý Just everything I’d known and everything I’d been brought up to know, in a heartbeat it changed.

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White

I mean you mention cars, were there other things, I mean what were the key things you missed?

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Pugh

More than anything I’ll never get to see me family’s faces as they get older – me niece, me nephew, people like that I’ll never be able to do it.

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White

And I think things went sour domestically for you as well, didn’t they?

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Pugh

Yeah, everyone just dropped me – all me friends left, I struggled to make friends and where do you go with life then and that was the mentality of it for me.Ìý Me partner left me through sight loss, I lost everything.

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White

That doesn’t happen to everyone in that situation, I’m just wondering why you think you lost these people?

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Pugh

Because I think they’re scared of what they would do in my position.Ìý I think that’s what it is. ÌýI think people fear what they don’t know and what they don’t understand, instead of asking the questions.

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White

What turned it around for you because that little clip we heard at the beginning, people know that it has been turned round, what made the difference?

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Pugh

I left me mum and dad’s house and I went live with me brother and with him doing long distance lorry driving I had to look after his six-year-old son and I was kind of thrown in the dark but because I never wanted his son, Jordan, I never wanted him to see me fail.Ìý So, he was the one that got me out with me cane, he was the one that took me to shops, he was the one that helped build me confidence.Ìý Ever since that day it was always then what can I do to help people with what I’ve learned on my journey.

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White

So, where does the walking and the adventuring come in?

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Pugh

Basically, I started posting videos of me and me guide dog, Vince, walking together to show people what it is actually like.Ìý And a woman called Maureen McKay from Dundee messaged me out of the blue and basically, offered me the chance to go and stay in Dundee, anytime I wanted.Ìý So, I jumped at the chance, never meeting her ever in me life, and met a guy called Brian Cunningham there.Ìý Ever since the day of meeting Brian, it’s just been one adventure after the other, just being free, forgetting the sight loss and trusting who you’re with.

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White

But why the daredevil challenges, I mean where did that come from?

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Pugh

I suppose it’s just – I still want to live, I don’t want to be Wayne that lost his sight and disappeared, I’m still a thrill seeker inside.Ìý I’ve always lived life at 100 mile an hour, so I’m after the next challenge, I’m after the next thrill, I’m after the next buzz.Ìý Climbing a mountain, going across a cliff – it’s fear but that fear is also excitement.

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White

Well, let’s talk about a couple of things that you’ve done and which we heard you doing there, I mean tell me about the Elie Chainwalk.

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Pugh

It’s eight chains and it’s a cliff face and it’s about two-three-inch ledge, if that.Ìý And I got rock climbing trainers on so I could grip to the tiny bit of ledge that I’ve got.Ìý I’ve got leather gloves on and I’m holding on to this big chain for dear life.Ìý Nobody told me how high it was, nobody told me how low it was but all’s I could hear was the sea crashing in below me and every now and then people would be saying – right, there’s scree and it’s dead slippy.

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Actuality

Now [indistinct words] at the start is very slippery, okay?

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Yeah.

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It’s scree, it’s slippery.

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Oh wow.Ìý So, it is actually down, down.

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Oh, it’s a down but you’re heading in the right direction all the time. [Laughter]

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Pugh

I’m petrified of swimming, since I’ve lost me sight, so, I was always worried about dropping into the sea more than anything at all.Ìý It’s just electric to be up there.Ìý To find out I was the first blind person to ever attempt it and finish it, to me, it’s amazing, I’ve done something insane and I’ve enjoyed every second of it.

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White

You see, what’s sort of really puzzling about that is you say that, you say you’ve absolutely loved every minute of it and yet, I can also hear the fear – the remembered fear in your voice.Ìý Surely, there must have been a number of times when you thought – what on earth am I doing this for.

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Pugh

I’ll be honest with you, as we walked across the beach, walking to it, I was having a quiet word with myself.Ìý But the team of people I’ve got with me, when I do these things, they’re second to none at guiding.Ìý We’ve just taught ourselves how to do it.

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White

You’ve done a number of other things as well – you did Ben Nevis.

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Pugh

Yeah, I did Ben Nevis in 2019, that was me third mountain I climbed.

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White

Ben Nevis is a bit of a doddle, isn’t it, compared to what you just described?

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Pugh

I don’t know about a doddle; it took me 13 hours up and down.Ìý I’d say coming down was the hard part.

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White

And what about this latest challenge, this bridge – this sounds the most horrific of all – this bridge with a drop either side?

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Pugh

It’s a ridge walk and I believe it’s about a 3,000-foot drop either side.

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White

So, you haven’t actually done this yet?

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Pugh

No.

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White

Can I persuade you not to?

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Pugh

Well, you’ve got me there, no.

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White

Clearly this was a way of sort of fighting back, I mean are there other reasons?

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Pugh

Me dream is, to be honest with you, Vince was my guardian light, he’s the one who saved me, I say.Ìý He changed my life.Ìý I just want to give everyone else that chance.Ìý If I’m going through a thrill-seeking moment to do it, it’s more fun.

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White

Let me bring Amar back.Ìý Amar Latif, you’ve been listening to that.Ìý You’ve taken on your fair share of challenges and are still doing so, what was driving you?

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Latif

Oh, my goodness, firstly, I just want to say well done Wayne.Ìý I was 18, when I woke and I couldn’t see the picture opposite the end of my bed and walked around bumping into things and not being able to see the faces of my mum and dad and brothers and sisters and realising that I was now blind.Ìý And I remember thinking that I didn’t want to be blind, I was just hoping that I could wake up and be my normal self.Ìý But I knew that my life had now changed forever.Ìý And, yeah, for many months I was down and the world doesn’t wait for us, we can be depressed and in a prison in our head and in our bedrooms, the world keeps going on, so you just start to think – well, okay, I’ll just get out there and start putting one foot in front of the other.Ìý And it boosts your confidence and you’re on your journey.Ìý

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I remember saying to my dad that I didn’t see any point in going to university when I couldn’t see, I wanted to always be an accountant and I don’t know why but I wanted to enter into the finance world and I remember saying to my dad – what’s the point, I don’t see any point in going to uni – and my dad just – look, son, let’s just take things one step at a time and we’ll see how it goes.Ìý And having the confidence of my dad there, the love and support from my mum.Ìý Don’t get me wrong, my family would say – Amar, you’re blind now, you can’t leave the house unaccompanied.Ìý And that sort of drove me to – when I went to uni, in third year I realised that I wasn’t going to tiptoe through life and be wrapped up in cottonwool and that’s when I went and studied abroad.Ìý And it just takes a moment like that.Ìý And yes, you’ve lost your sight but because travel opportunities didn’t exist and I set up a travel organisation, I can safely say that blindness has helped me see the world and that wouldn’t have happened if I was sighted.

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Pugh

Sight loss is actually the best thing that’s ever happened to me because although I can’t see a single thing anymore, I see clearer than I ever have done in my entire life.Ìý I will grab it with both hands and I’ll love every second of it.Ìý Just appreciate life, it’s too short and it’s family, friends, people who still real with you, they give you that strength to just move forward with life.

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White

Just to bring us back to Amar’s new job because, of course, the challenges don’t have to be big and, I guess, they don’t have to be scary.Ìý I mean what do you think it is that walking, rambling if you like, can give to visually impaired people in particular?

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Latif

In a way it is hard to get out there but when you’re out there in the open space, you can use all your senses and with a sighted guide you’ll end up with an incredible picture in your head.Ìý So, I always say it’s a bit like reading a book when you’re blind, compared to watching the film when you’re sighted.Ìý And we can all agree, the book’s always better.Ìý That wildness follows you back.Ìý So, it’s just so incredible for both your mental and physical wellbeing.Ìý There’s 700 Ramblers groups up and down the country and there’s 200 that are wellbeing walks, so they’re a bit more gentler.Ìý So, I’d say if you’re VI and you’re going out there on a walk or a challenge the key is preparation, so, do contact the leaders beforehand, let them know how you manage, just so that it’s not a surprise for them.Ìý And I’ll do my bit in the Ramblers to improve the understanding and together, if we improve communication, you know, I really believe that we can change things.

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White

And Wayne, there may well be people listening to this who feel or who have felt as low as you did 13 years ago, what would be your message to them?

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Pugh

It’s just one step in front of the other, just keep going forwards and don’t look back.

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White

Amar Latif in Bali, Wayne Pugh in Stoke-on-Trent – bit of a contrast there – thank you both very much indeed.

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If there’s been something, it doesn’t have to have been as dramatic or scary as Wayne’s experience, which turned your life around after losing sight, perhaps made life seem worth living again, tell us about it.Ìý It could have been an experience, could be meeting someone, a discovery of something new you’d never tried before.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave a voicemail on 0161 8361338 or, if you’re able, go to our website, that’s bbc.co.uk/intouch where there’s more information and you can also download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme.

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From me, Peter White, producer this week, Fern Lulham and studio managers Sue Stonestreet and Jonathan Esp, goodbye.

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