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When she was a child Shirley Williams believed that being an MP would give her the power to bring about all kinds of good things for society. But she found out that politics was "the boring of hard boards". She explains why she stuck with it until 2004, when stood down as Leader of the Liberal Democrats in the Lords.

She joins Jenni to discuss a lifetime career in politics and academia and why she still believes in the fundamental goodness of the human spirit.