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Schools must not avoid tricky subjects like Shakespeare, says biographer Sir Jonathan Bate.

Sir Jonathan, who is giving the British Academy lecture on Shakespeare at the Hay literature festival, told the World At One's Martha Kearney he still did not understand parts of Shakespeare, even though he was directing a production of Twelfth Night.

John Heilbron, who has just written Physics: A Short History and spoke alongside Sir Jonathan, said all subjects were really difficult when you grasped them.