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Michael Evans's brother Thomas travelled to Somalia in 2011 to join the terrorist group al-Shabab and was later killed in 2015.

Michael describes the difficulty when people ask about his brother. "How do you say, oh my brother's a terrorist? It's not something you can really bring up in conversation".

He describes the moment when he and his mum found out that Thomas had died. "We got a call from a journalist at 10 o'clock at night and he just asked for a comment on how my mum feels about the death of her son, and that was the first we ever heard of it".

Michael has helped create the support group 'SAFE' (Supporting Affected Families from Extremism) to help the families of people who have been radicalised or involved in acts of terrorism.

This clip is originally from 5 live Breakfast on Saturday 25th November 2017.