大象传媒

17th June 2022bbc.co.uk/accessallAccess All 鈥� episode 7
Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey
EMMA- Just a quick note before we start: this podcast episode has a short section on people who have had suicidal thoughts, and our section about Lizzo contains some fairly strong language.

EMMA- A little bird tells me you鈥檙e on your holidays soon.聽
NIKKI- Yes, I am so excited, Emma. I feel very lucky and I am very excited. I am going with my family and my boyfriend to Portugal.聽
EMMA- Oh wow. And are holidays a big pain or have you got stuff in place? Have you done lots of preparation and boring stuff like that?聽
NIKKI- Well, I think many people know, I鈥檓 just thinking physically disabled people here, finding a villa or a hotel that鈥檚 accessible takes a fair bit of research. So, we didn鈥檛 really decide on what country we wanted to go to; we decided on what country had the best accessible villa. And we found something in Portugal. It鈥檚 like super-duper, it鈥檚 got everything, we鈥檝e got pool hoists, the whole shebang. It鈥檚 even got a hot tub. And I just cannot wait, Em, because I鈥檓 actually a really good swimmer. I mean, I say a really good swimmer, if you saw me swimming you鈥檇 think I was drowning. In fact once I swum in a local swimming centre and the lifeguard jumped in because he thought I was drowning.聽
EMMA- Oh no!
NIKKI- But I was actually just swimming. Because it looks a little bit odd, but I am actually quite a strong swimmer. I know what鈥檚 going to happen at the end of the holiday, I鈥檓 going to get feeling really sorry for myself that I鈥檓 not swimming every day because it really does make me feel so much stronger. And often as not I can work better.聽
EMMA- Why is that?
NIKKI- Swimming is definitely the best form of exercise for muscular dystrophy, which is what I鈥檝e got.
EMMA- And that鈥檚 going to improve your physical ability?聽
NIKKI- It will. I do do a little bit of walking, which I鈥檝e told you before. I mean, I say walking; it鈥檚 like a shuffle and I have to cling on to Livy for dear life and it looks awful. But at the end of the two weeks I鈥檒l get back and I鈥檒l be able to shuffle a lot better.聽
MUSIC- Theme tune.聽
NIKKI- This is Access All, the 大象传媒鈥檚 disability and mental health podcast. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I am in London.聽
EMMA- And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 in Edinburgh.聽
NIKKI- Now, it鈥檚 been called inhumane and dangerous, and I鈥檓 talking about the practice of sending people with severe mental health difficulties hundreds of miles away for treatment because there aren鈥檛 any local beds available. The government鈥檚 pledged to eliminate this practice by 2021, but now more than a year on the Royal College of Psychiatrists have been looking at the scale of the problem. Emma, can you tell me, what have they found?
EMMA- Yeah, so let鈥檚 start off by explaining, depending on who you ask, 600 or 700 people are out of area at any one time. The Royal College of Psychiatrists says that people have spent 206,000 days out of area in the year since the deadline for stopping the practice, and it cost 拢102 million, the same sort of cost as 900 psychiatrists wages.聽
NIKKI- You see I know about this kind of practice but in the perspective of people with autism being inappropriately placed in these inpatient units, but this is different. An inappropriate placement when it comes to acute mental health is a placement that is you鈥檙e sent just miles and miles and miles away from home.聽
EMMA- Just because there isn鈥檛 a bed.聽
NIKKI- Because there isn鈥檛 a bed, okay. So, now we know the financial costs let鈥檚 find out what the personal cost is for the actual human sent so far away from home while in mental health crisis. I鈥檓 joined by the lovely Simon. Hello Simon.聽
SIMON- How are you?聽
NIKKI- Oh, I鈥檓 all right. Thank you so much for joining us, Emma and I really appreciate it. Thank you for talking to so openly about a subject that is not the easiest. But this has happened to you. It says here you had a 25-year history of depression. In 2011 you needed inpatient treatment for your mental health. What was going on with you at the time?
SIMON- I was in the midst of a depressive episode, which for me involves a really flattening out of my mood. I鈥檝e been unable to concentrate, not sleeping, not eating. But really more than anything struggling with thoughts that people close to me would be better off if I wasn鈥檛 around. And it culminated in an attempt at suicide.聽
NIKKI- Were you sectioned?聽
SIMON- I wasn鈥檛 sectioned, but the impression that I was left with was either way I鈥檓 going into hospital, so I consented. So, they then went away and came back and said, right we鈥檝e found you a bed, it鈥檚 in Harrogate.聽
NIKKI- And how far was Harrogate from where you were?
SIMON- I looked afterwards, it鈥檚 actually about 90, 95 miles away from home.聽
NIKKI- What did that mean at the time? This crisis I presume you want to be close to everyone you love?
SIMON- At that immediate time it didn鈥檛 matter. I didn鈥檛 care where I was. I didn鈥檛 want to be alive. For my wife, for my family it was devastating that I was taken away, that I was sent so far away. At the time I鈥檇 got a six-month old baby, so sort of travelling two hours each way with a tot wasn鈥檛 viable, so it was really difficult for them. I was away for 14 weeks.聽
NIKKI- Wow, 14 weeks.聽
SIMON- Over the time as you start to recover then lack of visits, lack of contact becomes more and more problematic.聽
NIKKI- It鈥檚 the connection, isn鈥檛 it?聽
SIMON- Yeah.聽
NIKKI- Stay with me Simon, because we鈥檝e got a clip from Ria. Ria was detained under the mental health act in 2018 and she was given a bed far from home. Let鈥檚 have a listen to her story.聽
RIA- I am agoraphobic and I鈥檝e pretty much not left my house for all of that year. And it was August, that day that I got detained I just got to the end of my capacity to cope with that and I left the house intending to kill myself. And instead of killing myself I got detained by the police, off the streets, in the clothes I was wearing, that鈥檚 all I had with me. I don鈥檛 know why we couldn鈥檛 even stop by my flat. I was taken up to this other hospital in a car, and we couldn鈥檛 just go to my flat so I could get some clean pants. And we travelled in the car for lots of hours, and I ended up in this hospital miles away. I was there for about three and a half weeks. So, no one could visit me, no one could bring me clean clothes. I used to wash my clothes in the shower in the morning and go and stand outside wearing my wet clothes and just dry them in the sun.聽
SIMON- My experience is much further away in time. It鈥檚 heart-breaking that we鈥檙e having the same conversations. I鈥檇 been travelling from the general hospital down to the inpatient unit in Derby. We drove past my house. I was then taken to Harrogate in an ambulance and we drove past my house again, and I still went without shoes.聽
NIKKI- Ah.聽
SIMON- It sends a message that you鈥檙e not worth anything. It鈥檚 wrong, and I can鈥檛 believe that we鈥檙e still having these same conversation from sort of early 2010s through to 2018, missed targets in 2021. It feels as though nothing is changing. And it鈥檚 not right. It wouldn鈥檛 be acceptable in physical healthcare. Can you imagine putting somebody living with cancer through this? How and why? I don鈥檛 get it.聽
NIKKI- You were at your lowest point, rock bottom; what would you have done if you hadn鈥檛 gone to one of these settings? Let鈥檚 forget about the distance; let鈥檚 think about the place itself.聽
SIMON- So, I potentially would have died. I did need to be in hospital. It was exactly the right place for me at that point and it kept me safe. And now three years later I鈥檓 as well as I鈥檓 going to be.聽
NIKKI- Yeah. It鈥檚 probably a good time now to bring in Marjorie Wallace, chief exec of mental health charity, SANE. Hello Marjorie. Now, Marjorie I鈥檓 just interested there, chatting to Simon about the need for these types of places, what is the answer? I know I鈥檓 coming in with the biggest question, but what is the answer to this?聽
MARJORIE- Well, I鈥檓 so sad. The stories, I鈥檓 nearly in tears. But actually we hear these stories all the time. Now, what is the answer, you鈥檙e saying what might be the answer, shall I just say the reason that this is happening. The reason is that the all governments have had a relentless agenda to actually close down psychiatric beds, on the grounds partially of costs and partially because it looks good because everybody can be looked after in the community. And in many statements say however disturbed, however ill when they get to rock bottom, like Simon, it鈥檚 still that they can be looked after in the community. And that鈥檚 partly because on the back of an envelope cost they would say that the cost of one person in a psychiatric bed with staff and qualified people with them they can treat 44 people, or rather not treat 44 people, in the community. And over the last sort of 30, 40 years we鈥檝e lost two-thirds of psychiatric beds. And actually since 2000 we鈥檝e lost half of the remaining psychiatric beds. Now, that leaves about 18,000 beds in the whole country for anyone with psychiatric problems or who need to have care. And that is the reason it鈥檚 happened, and they鈥檙e not doing anything to address it. In the ten-year plan that鈥檚 being proposed and we鈥檙e being consulted on there is no mention of reopening the closed units.
NIKKI- So, if I鈥檓 being quite basic about it, the government is saying that actually it鈥檚 early intervention, it鈥檚 community support, it鈥檚 all of that, close these places down, much like they say for people who are inappropriately placed with autism, they want to close these kinds of places down. But what you鈥檙e saying is there is still a need for people like Simon and Ria to have access to these places so they can be supported close to home. It鈥檚 a mixture of the two, is that the ideal situation?聽
MARJORIE- Absolutely. What we at SANE have been saying is that every trust should have at least five, six beds available so that if somebody is in crisis or they turn up at A&E and they鈥檝e self-harmed or they鈥檙e feeling suicidal or they鈥檝e attempted suicide there should be a safe place for them to go in their own area. And there is no place of safety. Sometimes it has been a police cell; that鈥檚 slightly reduced now. But otherwise people are driven these hundreds of miles, they鈥檙e shunted like parcels around the country just where there is an available bed.聽
NIKKI- And what do you hear from the families that you support?聽
MARJORIE- The impact on families is awful. We鈥檝e been working with a family, they have a young girl who has severe anxiety and depression, she鈥檚 self-harmed and attempted suicide and there were no places. This was actually in Cornwall, there was no bed available in the whole of Cornwall. And so she was taken to six different places, from Wales to the North of England to the South of England, six different places, just moved around. And the family actually drove 25,000 miles trying to visit her. And again and again we hear of the impact on the families. They may have other children. They鈥檙e not given any grant to go and visit, so it costs them a great deal if they drive, they can鈥檛 necessarily drive all those miles. And for them, I mean one mother just said to us it's every morning it鈥檚 absolute heartbreak knowing that my son is in despair and I can鈥檛 visit him. So, these stories show there鈥檚 impact on families as well as on the patient. And in a way this actually makes their condition worse in the end because by disoriented as you鈥檝e heard, having no contact, feeling sorry, you鈥檙e already frightened and feeling alone and feeling rejected. The worst thing to do is to take someone into an unfamiliar place where they don鈥檛 even know the nurses, the doctors or anyone around them. I mean, that鈥檚 going to delay their recovery.聽
NIKKI- Yeah.
SIMON- As you move towards discharge it makes it much harder as well I think to join up inpatient and follow-on care. I鈥檓 sure that I was in hospital for longer out of area than I would have been at home.聽
NIKKI- We have a statement here from the Department of Health and Social Care. The statement reads, 鈥楨veryone should have access to safe appropriate mental health care, and we recognise the impact that receiving care far away from loved ones could have. That鈥檚 why we are investing an extra 拢2.3 billion per year to transform NHS mental health services by 2024鈥�. That does sound like a lot of money, doesn鈥檛 it, Marjorie? Is that enough?聽
MARJORIE- Well, it鈥檚 a question of what the money is going to and will it reach people like Simon and Ria, will it go to the frontline for people who need help. And the evidence is that it isn鈥檛 going to the frontline.聽
NIKKI- This has been a fascinating chat. I would say if you鈥檙e worried about your own mental health or anything we鈥檝e spoken about today then you can visit 大象传媒 Action Line website.聽
MARJORIE- May I just add that you can ring our helpline. They can go to the website, they can leave their number and a suitable time to call and someone will call them back within 24 hours and then we can have sustained contact with people who have no one else.聽
EMMA- And that website address is sane.org.uk.
NIKKI- Thank you so much Marjorie. Thank you so much Simon, you explain so beautifully that situation that鈥檚 one of the darkest times for you. And I can鈥檛 thank you enough for coming on. And thank you Ria, for sending us that message as well.聽 So, we can鈥檛 not talk about Lizzo Emma.聽
EMMA- No.聽
NIKKI- [Sings] I toss my hair, check my nails, baby what you doing, feelin鈥� as good as hell. But it wasn鈥檛 that song that caused controversy.聽
EMMA- No. I do have it. it is stuck in my head, I just keep going [sings] da, da, da, girls.聽
NIKKI- Grrrls, that鈥檚 it. Now, controversy was language that Lizzo used, and she used an ableist slur. I don鈥檛 get this whole ableism thing. You鈥檙e going to have to teach me one day. As a disabled person it means nothing to me. I鈥檓 just going to call it a rubbish word, an awful shitty word that we should really not be using right now.聽
EMMA- A word that鈥檚 hurt people who are disabled in the past.聽
NIKKI- For many years, yes.
EMMA- For many years.聽
NIKKI- Yes, yes. It鈥檚 really bad, outdated and we鈥檝e sort of been toying with the idea of whether or not we should even, but I think we need to say it Emma, she used the word spaz.
EMMA- Yeah.
NIKKI- Which is obviously short for spastic, which is a horrible word that I hope that I鈥檒l never hear anybody use again in my lifetime, but it was used in the track. Now, we have to say that when she was called out on this she did listen and change it pretty much immediately, didn鈥檛 she, changed all the versions as well.聽
EMMA- Yeah, really quickly she changed absolutely everything. There鈥檚 a universal love of Lizzo, and a lot of the calling out by disabled people for using that word was, I really love you and I don鈥檛 love this word and it would be great if you could just not have it in the song. And that鈥檚 exactly what she did: she listened and she went and took it out of the song. It鈥檚 not in the song on any of the streaming services. People generally won鈥檛 hear that word in the song anymore and that鈥檚 really all she can do, right?聽
NIKKI- Yeah. I think a lot of disabled people at the time were shocked that it had come from Lizzo because she鈥檚 all about embracing you and your body and all of these kinds of things. She鈥檚 brilliant, you know, she鈥檚 always been a bit of a symbol of inclusion and all of that.聽
EMMA- Yeah.
NIKKI- I think a lot of disabled people were a bit shocked and hurt.
EMMA- Yeah.
NIKKI- But like you say she changed it. She obviously didn鈥檛 get the significance of that word and the fact that it鈥檚 a hurtful word for so many people.聽
EMMA- People were shocked that she didn鈥檛 get it, but there鈥檚 always talk that it鈥檚 used quite differently in America. I think we鈥檙e surprised when people don鈥檛 know stuff about disability, but actually not a lot of people do. I hear people say that word in this country, in this time, even though I鈥檇 have thought that we鈥檇 had this conversation a million and a half times and everyone would know that it鈥檚 not an appropriate word. So, I sort of feel like because she鈥檚 fixed it and because she鈥檚 genuinely said that it was unintentional I think her realm, her community, the people she speaks to maybe it鈥檚 felt differently about. There was a black American disability commentator, she was saying that Lizzo was called out differently than a white person would and that there鈥檚 lots of white men鈥檚 songs with those sorts of words that have just been left in and not such a big thing has been made of it. So, there鈥檚 all that to navigate as well.聽 We have to say fair play. And all the disability commentators on my social media and who I follow have all said, that鈥檚 how to do it, that鈥檚 how to fix something like that. Yes, I鈥檓 a little surprised that you did it in the first place and that it got through all the producers and all the promoters etc, etc, etc, but that was the response that now you鈥檝e set the bar, that鈥檚 what people can do.聽
NIKKI- Yeah exactly.聽
EMMA- And also I think when we talk about this we can never assume how words are used in different communities and how reclaimed words are or how words are used within different places. I think the thing about the N word that鈥檚 a difficult one; I鈥檓 not going to get into that.聽
NIKKI- No.聽
EMMA- But what I would ask is were you ever called spaz growing up?聽
NIKKI- I was probably called a few things in primary school. But I was just a bit delusional. I literally used to go round school with my headphones on listening to the Beatles鈥� Sergeant Pepper and just letting things wash over me. I don鈥檛 take it for granted that I鈥檓 just somebody that filters out rubbish and forgets about it. That鈥檚 my nature, and I鈥檓 blessed, I get that, because I understand very much so how hurtful that word is for so many people. And it hugely upsets me. And it鈥檚 like the R word, I loathe it with a passion, like the S word and that, because I think people with learning disabilities as well have such a tough time with it as it is and often have problems advocating for themselves or not necessarily have support around, and I鈥檓 like come on.聽 But I think it鈥檚 a lack, I said education at the start, but it鈥檚 more, I don鈥檛 mean that in a snobby education way, I mean it鈥檚 a lack of understanding, of knowledge. I think with disability we are moving forward quite well in this country. Okay yeah, it would have been great for us 20, 30 years ago, but it is happening now. I can feel it happening. And I think potentially, not to lump an entire country, but I just think potentially in the US when it comes to disability there are certain areas, and language potentially being one of them, where there鈥檚 just not that understanding.聽
I tell you what confused me, because me and my sister didn鈥檛 grow up around anyone else who had a disability, any other disabled people, it was just me and my sis, mainstream education, the whole thing, and obviously bad language is bad language, but then what confused me was when I started getting into TV and I started meeting more and more disabled people with different disabilities, different impairments, I started hearing like say Liz Carr, who I adore, use the word crip to describe herself. And I get it now obviously, she can say whatever she likes about herself.聽
MUSIC- Access All with Nikki Fox.聽
NIKKI- Now, we鈥檙e getting a big highbrow this week, Em. How is your knowledge of Shakespeare?聽
EMMA- Not great. I did Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet at school and I鈥檝e watched some of the CBeebies versions of Shakespeare plays. That鈥檚 about it.聽
NIKKI- Very good. And I once played Juliet, but I just got cast because my boyfriend was Romeo. And I do remember, Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo, deny thy father or refuse thy name, or if that will not be鈥� Yeah, anyway.聽
EMMA- Beautiful.聽
NIKKI- Thanks, lovely. Well, the Royal Shakespeare Company won鈥檛 be hiring me. But they have hired their first ever disabled actor playing the part of Richard III when it opens in Stratford-upon-Avon. A quick history lesson for you: King Richard is the one who allegedly locked his nephews in the Tower of London, never to be seen again. He lived more than 100 years before Shakespeare wrote his play. So, while the bard never actually met him he famously depicted Richard as having a hunchback as well as being an A-grade villain. Here鈥檚 an amazing fact: when Richard鈥檚 body was discovered underneath a car park in Leicester ten years ago they discovered he had scoliosis, which is a curvature of the spine. Now, Arthur Hughes who has starred in the Then Barbara met Alan, which we absolutely love, Help with Jodie Comer, and played Rory Donavon in the Archers will take on the role of Richard III next month. And he is here.聽
ARTHUR- Hello.
NIKKI- Now, I am no historian Arthur. Hello, how lovely to meet you.聽
ARTHUR- Hello, and you.聽
NIKKI- We鈥檝e had a little chat before, haven鈥檛 we? I already feel like I know you very well. Now, I鈥檓 no historian and I feel like a bit of a philistine because I was dyslexic at school so Shakespeare was like I could barely read the basics, do you know what I mean.聽
ARTHUR- Right.聽
NIKKI- But from what I鈥檝e read about Richard III he was a bit of a wrong 鈥榰n wasn鈥檛 he?聽
ARTHUR- He was a bit of a wrong 鈥榰n. Well, from what we know about him, most of what I think generally people know about him is the Shakespeare play.聽
NIKKI- Yeah.聽
ARTHUR- And how he鈥檚 portrayed in the Shakespeare play is just absolutely a murdering wrong 鈥榰n, as you put it. He murders his way to the top until he鈥檚 king.聽
NIKKI- Is that how we got to the point in our careers now?聽
ARTHUR- Yeah! Well, you know, that鈥檚 the only way to do it isn鈥檛 it really?
EMMA- Disability glass ceiling, need something to conquer it.聽
ARTHUR- Just smash through and murder who you have to.聽
NIKKI- And how does it feel playing a character like that? Because it must be quite exciting for you as an actor?
ARTHUR- It鈥檚 so much fun to play a villain. He鈥檚 just a marvellous villain. His relationship with the audience is a big part of it, so how he will be speaking to the other characters and then turns to the audience and go, oh yeah but you know, you know what鈥檚 going to happen later. So, there鈥檚 like this real complicity with the audience of going oh god, isn鈥檛 he terrible, he鈥檚 going to do all these things. Playing that is great fun. But throughout the play, he鈥檚 an actor as well, to get to where he needs to get to he pretends to be all these different things and manipulates and tricks people. So, as an actor playing him it鈥檚 great. He鈥檚 so two-faced and so duplicitous that to play all that is a dream.聽
NIKKI- And for people that don鈥檛 know much about Richard III, like me before I met you, give us a little run down of him and his story.聽
ARTHUR- So, he鈥檚 brother to the king, King Edward. But what most people know about Richard is he鈥檚 one of the most famous disabled characters in the English language. That鈥檚 the real hangover that kind of infiltrates all of disabled representation and culture since Shakespeare鈥檚 time. He鈥檚 a damaged young man who has been brought up in an ableist world, also through a civil war which he fought in. And then by the time he鈥檚 kind of finished that war he鈥檚 left in this peaceful time, but actually this peaceful time is a world that doesn鈥檛 accept him. And he鈥檚 like, do you know what, I don鈥檛 want to conform to all these rules for a world that just doesn鈥檛 want to have me so do you know what, I鈥檒l play by my own rules.
NIKKI- Oh that鈥檚 brilliant that.
ARTHUR- Yeah, and he does. He makes his way to the top, but when he鈥檚 there kind of finds, am I any good at this. Well, I鈥檒l leave it on that cliff-hanger.聽
NIKKI- What disabilities did he have then? Scoliosis?
ARTHUR- A form of scoliosis, but yeah, it鈥檚 scoliosis. In Shakespeare鈥檚 play there鈥檚 a list of things, describing like an arm like mine. My disability is radial dysplasia; I don鈥檛 have a thumb on my right arm, and missing one of my radius bones and my hand is slightly shorter. There鈥檚 stuff in the play which is similar to that. But there鈥檚 no evidence of this. What we know of him he lives in this legendary mythical status. And even in the play the way people talk about him is like, oh have you heard, he had teeth in his head when he was born, he鈥檚 got this and he鈥檚 got this. But actually when presented with the actual person people are like, oh. People make up rumour and myth about who he was, and that鈥檚 how he鈥檚 existed through history. No one actually knows, until they dug him up and they went, oh so now it鈥檚 that. Which I think it鈥檚 quite an interesting world to live in of like no one can get a real finger on who I actually am, which is I think quite useful.聽
NIKKI- I love it. Do you think the play, Arthur, has significance in the world that we live in today really?聽
ARTHUR- Absolutely. I think having a disabled actor playing Richard, I鈥檓 not the first but first at the RSC, it鈥檚 a big statement to have just a leading role at the RSC with a disabled actor on stage. Fantastic. But the play is about a leader, well a person who becomes leader, who鈥檚 just absolutely not up to it and is like a real tyrant. Look around the world today right now, how many tyrants? We鈥檝e got tyrants everywhere. Well, we鈥檝e got people who are leading who are completely unfit to do it and making terrible decisions. You go like, how did you get to be there? I think you could do this play five years ago, 20 years ago, 50, I think whenever it鈥檚 done it's always a real look at power and how people use power.聽
NIKKI- Talking about you as an actor, Arthur, where do you think we鈥檙e at now when it comes to disability and the arts industry, TV, media, film all of that?聽
ARTHUR- It鈥檚 kind of twofold. I鈥檝e been acting about ten years now, and it feels a really exciting time to be a disabled actor. It feels like things are on the ascendance, fingers crossed, which is exciting. But not to take the foot off the pedal because there have been recent reports about, and we all know this I think as disabled actors and disabled people know that representation is like woefully under what it should be, and now it鈥檚 been reported that it actually is. So, there鈥檚 a lot of work to do. Things like incidental casting where people鈥檚 disability is just there.聽
NIKKI- That鈥檚 right, yeah.聽
ARTHUR- And it鈥檚 not the explicit reason for being there. You鈥檙e just there telling the story you鈥檙e telling. That has a real power that we should see. And we should see it in the spotlight, but without having to go鈥�
NIKKI- Ta-da!
ARTHUR- 鈥�yeah, and be like, and here鈥檚 the reason why we鈥檙e doing it.聽
NIKKI- Yeah. I wonder what point we鈥檒l get to when we can say, ah that鈥檚 it, true equality. I wonder what that will be. Will that be the first superhero using a wheelchair or will it be just anyone being cast for any role?聽
ARTHUR- Yeah, that鈥檚 it. I鈥檇 love to see, like with the Royal Shakespeare Company, it鈥檚 great that they鈥檝e got a disabled Richard, but why not a disabled Macbeth?
NIKKI- Yeah. And where can people see you as well, what theatre?聽
ARTHUR- It鈥檚 going to be at the Royal Shakespeare Company in the Royal Shakespeare Theatre in Stratford-upon-Avon. And that鈥檚 June 23rd till October 6th I think are the rough dates.
NIKKI- Well, there鈥檚 plenty of time to catch the wonderful Arthur. The Royal Shakespeare Company also offers chilled or relaxed, signed, captioned and audio described performances. It鈥檚 been a pleasure, really honestly, and I hope I get to catch you as well.聽
EMMA- I鈥檓 loving the bit of Shakespeare. It鈥檚 always good to get a bit of culture.聽
NIKKI- A bit of culture. Did you like my attempts? Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou, Romeo.聽
EMMA- It鈥檚 a modern take.聽
NIKKI- Thanks darling. Well, please keep your emails coming in because we鈥檙e getting more and more and more and more, and it鈥檚 very exciting. Email us accessall@bbc.co.uk. You can WhatsApp us, send us a text or a voice note to our number which is 0330 123 9480. But crucially can you start your message with the word access. If you want to send a voice note just do the same thing too, just write access and then send the voice note. That would be fab.聽 Well, I鈥檒l see you in a couple of weeks everyone, so bye from me.聽
EMMA- Bye from me.聽