EMMA- So, I was sitting on this packed train, like totally absorbed, scrolling, thinking about my holidays, tired, and I could hear a voice that 鈥� you know some people with cerebral palsy you can hear that they have cerebral palsy by the way their voice sounds 鈥� and I could hear sounded a youngish guy coming down the carriage saying, 鈥楥ould someone offer me a seat please? Can someone give me a seat please?鈥�. The carriage was packed; nobody was getting up at all.聽

NIKKI- Oh, don鈥檛 tell me that.聽

EMMA- Right? So, I jumped up. I can totally stand on a train, as long as I have the space and stuff, and he said thank you. And then as I was moving forward and opening my cane he was like, 鈥極h my god, you鈥檙e a blind person. A blind person gave me a seat, that鈥檚 terrible, that鈥檚 absolutely terrible鈥�. I was like, 鈥楴o, it鈥檚 absolutely fine鈥�. And then I could hear this voice in a kind of monotone saying thank you, thank you. I said, 鈥極h is that your communication aid? It sounds quite interesting鈥�. And he was like, 鈥楴o, no, I鈥檓 on the phone鈥�. And it was a woman on speakerphone. It was someone who probably was his mum, or someone who sounded the age of his mum. And then she started ripping into the carriage, the whole carriage.聽

NIKKI- On speaker?聽

EMMA- On speaker.

NIKKI- Brilliant.

EMMA- Saying, 鈥榃hat the heck do you think you鈥檙e doing 鈥� she didn鈥檛 say heck, by the way 鈥� not giving this guy a seat?! Another disabled person had to get up. You鈥檙e a disgrace! A disgrace!鈥�

NIKKI- Don鈥檛. I love it.

EMMA- And there wasn鈥檛 a peep out of anybody in the carriage. Nobody said a word, nobody got up, nothing. But I loved it. I thought it was great.聽

NIKKI- No, I completely, I love that that happened. But that鈥檚 upsetting that nobody got up. You see I like to live in a world where I think that if I鈥檇 wobbled onto the bus, back in the day, that everyone would have stood. But it just doesn鈥檛 always happen, does it?聽

MUSIC- Theme music.聽

NIKKI- We are back and we鈥檙e badder than ever. Yes, it鈥檚 Access All, the 大象传媒鈥檚 disability and mental health podcast. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I鈥檓 in London.聽

EMMA- And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 in Edinburgh.

NIKKI- Coming up later:

LAURENCE- I wish David narrated all of my life. In my head he does.

NIKKI- That鈥檚 comedian Laurence Clarke. He鈥檚 going to be telling us about this first TV sitcom.

EMMA- And make sure to subscribe to Access All on 大象传媒 Sounds.聽

NIKKI- The national charity, Sense, has revealed it will be awarding grants of 拢500 to one thousand families to help support them through the mounting energy crisis. It鈥檚 a really scary time for a lot of disabled people and their families as costs rise to unprecedented levels, higher still by April next year. And the government is being battered daily in the press for more solutions. We鈥檙e going to chat to the CEO of Sense in a moment to find out how we got to this point. But first, let鈥檚 say hello to Kelly. Hello Kelly.聽

KELLY- Hiya.

NIKKI- Now, Kelly鈥檚 a mum of two with MS. And you鈥檙e already struggling, aren鈥檛 you, Kelly?

KELLY- Yes, really struggling at the moment.聽

NIKKI- What do you use your energy on, Kelly? And is it related to having MS?

KELLY- Yes, it is. It is important for me to have the gas on through the winter. But it鈥檚 just really frightening at the moment because I don鈥檛 know if we鈥檙e going to be able to afford to heat the house. It鈥檚 a choice between heating or eating at the moment.聽

NIKKI- How high have they got, your bills?

KELLY- They鈥檝e trebled in price. I was paying a monthly direct debit, and I just can鈥檛 afford to pay that anymore so I鈥檝e had to cancel it.

NIKKI- You鈥檝e had to cancel the direct debit?

KELLY- And I鈥檝e set up a standing order with them to pay as much as I can afford.

NIKKI- And how does that make you feel? Because it鈥檚 scary having to cancel a direct debit and do it that way, isn鈥檛 it?

KELLY- Yeah. It makes me feel, well I suffer with anxiety as well and depression, and it鈥檚 not helping with my MS at all. It鈥檚 making all my symptoms worse.

NIKKI- We were saying that they鈥檝e gone up and they鈥檝e trebled, so just give me an idea of the kind of figures that you鈥檝e been paying?聽

KELLY- I鈥檝e been paying 拢240 a month direct debit. And it鈥檚 just something that we can鈥檛 keep up with at the moment. It鈥檚 only my husband working. I鈥檓 not working due to my MS.聽

NIKKI- Yeah.

KELLY- It鈥檚 frightening. Everything is just going up. And the government needs to do much to support, not just the disabled, but everybody that鈥檚 struggling.聽

NIKKI- And are you in debt now?

KELLY- Yes, unfortunately we are in debt with the gas, electric, a couple of other bills as well. And we just found ourselves in this position and it鈥檚 just hard to get out of at the moment.聽

NIKKI- Do you see an end in sight? Is there a solution for you and your family?

KELLY- There鈥檚 no solution at the moment. I鈥檓 hoping the government will do something about it. They need to give more to people that are disabled, and they need to help with the rising costs of energy, fuel, the costs of living for food.

EMMA- Kelly, a household is said to be in fuel poverty if it鈥檚 spending more than 10% of its income on energy. Is that you now? Will it be you?聽

KELLY- Yes, it is us. We鈥檙e spending way too much. I鈥檇 say about 50% is going out on energy.

NIKKI- Really?

EMMA- Wow.

KELLY- So, we鈥檝e got some coming in but half of it is going out on energy.

EMMA- And you鈥檝e got kids, don鈥檛 you? And how is that affecting the kids, your relationship with the kids, quality of life etc?

KELLY- Well, I would like to have more money to spend with the kids doing things rather than finding the money to pay our bills.聽

EMMA- And in terms of food and when the kids are home for the holidays it鈥檚 snack, snack, snack, isn鈥檛 it. Like they eat you out of house and home I find. How are you managing with food with all of you in the house?聽

KELLY- Well, I鈥檓 tending to just stick to one meal a day, just to make sure my kids are eating.聽

EMMA- Is that affecting your MS, Kelly?

KELLY- It鈥檚 making my symptoms much worse: my thinking, it鈥檚 making me depressed; it鈥檚 making the numbness. Just all the symptoms of MS just get totally worse when you鈥檝e just got anxiety and depression thinking of how are we going to live.聽

NIKKI- It鈥檚 awful.聽

EMMA- Do you know if you鈥檙e entitled to any help with your bills?

KELLY- I鈥檓 going through Citizens Advice at the moment. They did say to me it was a 7-week wait for them to help me because everybody鈥檚 in a struggling position. But they have rung me and they have got the ball rolling, so hopefully they will point me in the right direction of where to go and what to do really.

NIKKI- Thank you so much, Kelly. Just stick with us, Kelly, because we鈥檙e now joined by Richard Kramer. Now, Richard is the CEO of the national charity, Sense. Sense supports people with complex disabilities. And the charity has decided to give a 拢500 grant to some of the people that it supports. Hello Richard, thank you so much for joining us.

RICHARD- Hello there.聽

NIKKI- Why has Sense decided to give a 拢500 grant to some people?聽

RICHARD- We鈥檝e been campaigning for government to do more to tackle the cost of living crisis facing disabled people. And families were telling us that they were finding it impossible to pay their energy bills, they were cutting down on essentials, and they were getting into debt. They were also saying we can鈥檛 wait until the outcome of the leadership election or when a new support package is announced. So, we decided that we needed to do something positive and practical to put more resources into the hands of disabled people. And that鈥檚 why we鈥檝e set up the emergency fund in conjunction with the anti-poverty charity, Turn2Us, who are distributing the grant to disabled people and families across the country. But there鈥檚 a gap. We want government to step up to the plate and do more. And at the same time we can鈥檛 expect government to make all the difficulties go away. So, there鈥檚 an opportunity for charities like us to intervene and provide direct support, but at the same time we don鈥檛 want to let the government off the hook. And we鈥檙e going to campaign for them to provide more long-term support for disabled people.聽

If any politician were to go into a house they would know that disabled people, a lot of people need to have the heating on 24 hours a day because of medical conditions. We know that the washing machine is always on, and disabled people need to have more baths for hygiene reasons for example. But families are now saying actually we鈥檙e going to have to leave clothes soiled because we need to save on energy. And families are now telling us that they need to keep their son or daughter in one room as they can鈥檛 afford to heat the whole house. People are struggling to run life-saving medical equipment. You can鈥檛 stop charging a wheelchair or running an oxygen machine or a ventilator. And I think that鈥檚 not understood. I think charities talk about the extra cost of disability, they talk about how people spend a disproportionate amount of money on food and energy, for which prices are rising the greatest, but I think politicians need to be more curious and inquisitive and really understand what it鈥檚 like to be disabled, what it鈥檚 like for a family carer looking after a disabled son or daughter, facing the pressures they do. People have already cut back; there鈥檚 nothing left for people to cut back in existing budgets.聽

NIKKI- Richard, do you think other charities should be following your lead and actually supporting the people that they support with some extra money?

RICHARD- I think all charities need to be doing more, and all charities need to be refocusing and telling their story to their supporters about poverty and the impact on the people they support. This isn鈥檛 a substitute for a government acting; but there is a responsibility for charities to fill the gap where they can do so.

NIKKI- With cash?

RICHARD- Well, cash grants are one option available. We鈥檝e made the decision that what people want now is money in their hands to pay their bills, to get decent food, to repair equipment. That is the decision Sense has taken. And I hope other charities will do so.聽

There are other things that we need to do: we need to talk about the benefits of a social security system. Benefits are a good thing because they enable people to live an independent life, and one with dignity. And if government are serious about helping people they need to restore benefits to a level that people can work on.聽

NIKKI- Yes. And Kelly, I can imagine you鈥檙e nodding your head here listening to Richard?

KELLY- Yes, I am yes.

NIKKI- Because I know hearing about all these one-off payments it鈥檚 quite complex as well. And that is part of the problem, isn鈥檛 it, Emma?

EMMA- From 20th September disabled people are going to get 拢150 payment. And then that鈥檚 for rising prices and equipment. And then you鈥檝e got the 拢650 that disabled people on means tested benefits are getting. Then you鈥檝e got the 拢400 reduction in fuel bills that we鈥檙e all getting. And then you鈥檝e got the 拢150 council tax rebate that鈥檚 already been issued.

NIKKI- Kelly, have you received your cost of living payment yet?

KELLY- Yeah. Well, I鈥檝e received half of it, the 拢325 of the 拢650 cost of living. It has helped me in buying school uniforms for my son, because he starts the comprehensive now in September, because uniforms are so expensive to buy.

NIKKI- So, you had to use that money for uniforms rather than for knocking off your energy bills?

KELLY- Yeah.

NIKKI- There is that worry that this support isn鈥檛 going to touch the sides. Is there anything else out there?聽

EMMA- If you use an oxygen concentrator, if you rely on oxygen most of the time, you actually can get the money back on the electricity that that uses 鈥� because Richard did mention oxygen earlier 鈥� and if you stick oxygen therapy NHS into your search engine then you鈥檒l get all the numbers to ring. Then if you get yourself on your supplier鈥檚 support register you can just get knowledge that there鈥檚 going to be a power cut so you can charge stuff up, if you can afford to charge stuff up; you can get help with your meter, kind of reading it or moving it etc. So, maybe it鈥檒l just give you a bit more peace of mind.聽

And then if you鈥檙e in debt, it鈥檚 not disability specific, but suppliers do have charitable trusts and you can apply for grants etc from those. All the big charities do have round ups, but also there will be a transcript of this podcast and lots of the information, well everything I鈥檝e said, is going to be on it.聽

NIKKI- Well, we鈥檙e going to continue to cover this subject. But I鈥檇 like to thank Kelly and Richard so much for joining us today. Thank you both.聽

KELLY- Thank you.

RICHARD- Thank you.聽

MUSIC- Access All with Nikki Fox.

EMMA- It gets under your skin when too much stuff in your life is unnecessarily, needlessly inaccessible, doesn鈥檛 it Nikki?

NIKKI- It really does. You just want to get on with what you want to get on with. In your case you鈥檝e got your kids and family, you鈥檝e got your job, and you want to have a social life and just live your life. And then when those kind of everyday things just stop you from doing just the basics really it is frustrating.聽

EMMA- Yeah.

NIKKI- I keep it quiet. I keep it to myself, I just keep quite quiet about it and just sort of, I don鈥檛 know, I just sort of try and get over it. But it is difficult. It鈥檚 hard.聽

EMMA- So, what do you keep to yourself? Do you keep the inaccessibility of things to yourself or do you keep how you feel about it to yourself?聽

NIKKI- How I feel about it I think. I just try and remain as positive as I can in life, in this inaccessible world that we live in, Emma Tracey.聽

EMMA- Yeah. But it鈥檚 good to have a moan every now and again. It鈥檚 good to remind people that this is actually happening so that they might know why it鈥檚 taking you longer to get back to them, or to fill in that form or whatever. You鈥檙e not just being lazy or you鈥檙e not putting it off; you鈥檝e actually tried five times and been knocked out of it, or a box has been inaccessible. I tried to do a survey, in work actually, the other day and it was to do with diversity and it had buckets I had to drag different things into, and stuff like that is totally obviously inaccessible with a screen reader. And I was just like, oh. And then there was training, like actual mandatory training and it鈥檚 totally video based, the interface was totally inaccessible. And then I started looking at the school apps for school to get the kids lunches, to get the holiday calendar, to see whether the teacher had put up any work for them to do, couldn鈥檛 get into that. Like I just felt like breaking something.聽

NIKKI- Did you?

EMMA- I did, and having a little cry.

NIKKI- Did you break anything?聽

EMMA- No, I didn鈥檛. I pushed down the little cry as well because I didn鈥檛 have time.聽

NIKKI- No.

EMMA- I had to get up and get ready and get out the door. I just had to get on with it. But it hurts me, it hurts me.聽

NIKKI- Oh Emma.

EMMA- But do you have anything like that?聽

NIKKI- No, I do. I suppose for me it鈥檚 not being able to physically access. I guess I鈥檝e noticed it more because, as you know Emma, I think I might have told you about my fella.聽

EMMA- Uh-huh.

NIKKI- And we鈥檝e moved, we鈥檙e spending time in our cow bungalow is what we like to call it. It鈥檚 basically the disabled鈥檚 best friend, the bungalow, next to a farm.聽

EMMA- So, that鈥檚 why you鈥檙e calling it a cow bungalow.

NIKKI- Teenage mutant ninja turtles. So, yeah, we are very sad, my boyfriend and I. But I realised, coming from my family home where I still reside as well, which is all set up for me, I鈥檝e got a lift, my dad鈥檚 a builder, he鈥檚 done some fancy-pants ramps, I鈥檝e got all the kit that I need, I can pretty much do whatever I need to do with minimum assistance.

EMMA- And if something is really inaccessible you can say, mum.

NIKKI- Yeah, and say, not now, you鈥檙e 42, love. But I鈥檝e realised in the cow bungalow there鈥檚 not much I can do. And my boyfriend is brilliant; he鈥檚 very practical. He鈥檚 a gardener but also he can do a lot of things. He鈥檚 very handy around the house. And he gets very excited about technology and how technology could potentially help me. And I was like, I need Emma Tracey. Because he asked me the other week, he was like, 鈥榃hy don鈥檛 we get those lights where you clap and they turn on?鈥� And I鈥檓 like, 鈥榃hat are you talking about, love?鈥�. And then he鈥檚 like, 鈥榃hat about one of those speaker assistant things where you go, hey, whatever it is, I don鈥檛 know, make me a coffee. I鈥檝e no idea what they do, or something to help turn the telly on. Because I did think if I was there on my own I wouldn鈥檛 be able to open the door to let anyone in, I wouldn鈥檛 be able to get out, I wouldn鈥檛 be able to turn the lights, well I might be able to turn the lights on. But there are so many things and it really hit me. Help me Emma.聽

EMMA- That thing to turn the lights on that used to be on Tomorrow鈥檚 World a lot and stuff, didn鈥檛 it. I think it was a piece of kit called the Possum, that was the main thing for disabled people before the smart speaker. Someone can write in if I鈥檓 wrong.聽

NIKKI- That reminds me of Dame Edna Everage, possums.聽

EMMA- Yeah. Maybe she had something with the company, I don鈥檛 know.聽

NIKKI- I can hit both hands together, but there ain鈥檛 much sound coming out, Emma.聽

EMMA- And this was sound activated so you did actually need to do a [claps] get the things on.聽

NIKKI- Exactly, to do that. I tell you what I could do, I could do this [beeping noise]. That鈥檚 my scooter honker.

EMMA- You see that would be clever if they could set that up to activate the lights and curtains, wouldn鈥檛 it?

NIKKI- There you go, there鈥檚 the future.聽

EMMA- So, why do you not want one of these smart speakers? We have them all over our house.

NIKKI- I don鈥檛 know. I feel like they鈥檙e a little bit intrusive. I don鈥檛 like the idea of chatting away and there鈥檚 a thing that can鈥 know they don鈥檛 listen. I just don鈥檛 know. You see, I don鈥檛 know. Am I just being a conspiracy theorist? I don鈥檛 know. I just don鈥檛 really like the idea of them.聽

EMMA- Your phone is already doing that. We have a doorbell where we can open up our phones and see the people at the door. Then you could say to them, oh open it, just come in. Or if it鈥檚 someone you know really well, the key is under the ceramic cow. Do you know what I mean? You could just say it. And then you could also set it all up with the lights, and not only can you turn the lights on with it but you can change colour and you can dim them and make yourself a real romantic palace for yourself.聽

NIKKI- That鈥檚 what I mean, I鈥檓 going to that. Do you just get a regular bulb then?

EMMA- No, it鈥檚 a smart bulb. Your heating that鈥檚 another one that we have set up with the smart speaker. And do you know what I think most about accessibility, and that doesn鈥檛 mean that people shouldn鈥檛 make things accessible, but it鈥檚 when it was accessible and now it鈥檚 not, that also really hurts me.聽

NIKKI- But actually things have regressed you mean?聽

EMMA- Yeah, like if an app gets updated. Last weekend, to the best of my knowledge, and Instagram may come back and tell me I鈥檓 wrong, but I had a couple of people test it for me, but with Apple and IOS I couldn鈥檛 share other people鈥檚 stuff on Instagram suddenly. So, I had been able to and then I couldn鈥檛. And then I am able to again. Every time I download an app I don鈥檛 know if it鈥檚 going to be accessible. So, I want to download one of these learn to read apps because there are some really good ones for kids now, but actually the anxiety is stopping me from doing it because if I download it and it鈥檚 not accessible, and then it would be a really good opportunity for the kids but I wouldn鈥檛 be able to manage it and check their progress and stuff like that, it just makes me sad.

NIKKI- Yeah.

EMMA- Because it鈥檚 needless.聽

NIKKI- Could I hire you as an accessibility consultant for the cow bungalow?

EMMA- Bring my husband round is probably better.聽

NIKKI- Ah, there you go.聽

EMMA- Because he knows all the stuff. So, we鈥檒l come round and we鈥檒l talk to you and Dave about it. But I wouldn鈥檛 rely on it like a person, but it鈥檚 a handy thing to have.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, okay. Thank you Emma.聽

MUSIC- Access All.聽

NIKKI- Hello Laurence.聽

LAURENCE- Hello.聽

NIKKI- How are you? He鈥檚 here, Emma.

EMMA- You鈥檙e still going then? Fair play.

LAURENCE- Yes, still going.聽

NIKKI- Oh you鈥檙e a charmer, Emma.

EMMA- I鈥檓 only kidding though because he鈥檚 just won a BAFTA.

NIKKI- Still going, love. Now, my next guest has a piece of silverware I鈥檇 very much like in my bathroom. Laurence Clark is a comedian and a writer with cerebral palsy, and the proud owner of a shiny new BAFTA. Hello.

LAURENCE- Hello. I should say it鈥檚 kind of co-owned by the people who run TripleC, and there are about eight of us. So, what we鈥檝e done is we鈥檝e got it on timeshare so everybody has turns to have it. It鈥檚 not been my turn yet, but someone told me the other day it鈥檚 now got a dent in it. So, we鈥檝e got a disabled BAFTA.

NIKKI- You鈥檝e got a disabled BAFTA.聽

EMMA- Did it get a dent in it because of a disability related incident as well?

LAURENCE- I think it might have been on the dance floor later in the evening.聽

NIKKI- Now, you mentioned TripleC there. Tell us a little bit about it, Laurence.

LAURENCE- TripleC is an organisation that I chair that recognised that disabled people really needed a voice in the arts and TV and film industry.

EMMA- It鈥檚 really important now. The industry people are sort of coming to you now, aren鈥檛 they? What are you going to nobble them on next? What are you going to make them change?

NIKKI- Are you going to nobble them on something?聽

EMMA- Nobble them; does that even mean what I mean it to mean?

NIKKI- Keep it. It鈥檚 brilliant.聽

LAURENCE- Ralph & Katie, which is the new spin-off series from The A Word, we鈥檝e had 30 trainees.

EMMA- 30?

LAURENCE- Yes 30, go through a course whereby they look at every aspect of that production and learn how a high-end TV drama is made, as an introduction.聽

EMMA- High-end TV drama with two disabled people as the main characters.

NIKKI- Yeah.

LAURENCE- And a lot, I mean a lot, of disabled people work in other areas of that production. It鈥檚 really been ground-breaking.聽

NIKKI- Amazing. Now, Laurence, Laurence, Laurence, when I knew you I was always introducing you as comedian Laurence Clark. You obviously are a comedian, but you鈥檝e also turned your hand to scriptwriting, haven鈥檛 you?聽

LAURENCE- Yes, I have. I鈥檝e always wanted to be a screenwriter, going back to as far as I can remember. And I kind of got seduced by stand-up comedy because it was an easy way to get what I was writing heard.聽

[Clip] I think it鈥檚 often assumed that people with cerebral palsy would just naturally understand one another. They think it鈥檚 like French. It鈥檚 not. My voice in my head doesn鈥檛 sound like what you鈥檙e hearing now. No. In my head I sound like an audiobook read by Benedict Cumberbatch.聽

Because of lockdown all of the stand-up just went overnight. I finally had time to sit down and write. One reason my writing has taken off is because I鈥檝e been on the 大象传媒鈥檚 Writersroom, writers access group for the past 18 months. So, the 大象传媒 Writersroom actively looking for disabled, deaf and neuro-divergent writers, people will be able to apply and send in a sample of their writing.聽

NIKKI- Amazing, Laurence.

LAURENCE- I applied to get on the course.聽

NIKKI- Can you tell us what you鈥檙e working on at the moment writing wise, Laurence Clark?

LAURENCE- A sitcom pilot called Perfect, about young disabled people on a Back to Work job scheme that鈥檚 training them to shove trolleys around a supermarket car park, and they rebel against that.聽

[Clip] What kinds of jobs are realistic for people in your鈥ositions? Shelf stacker. Aha. Data entry. Aha. A hat stand; that wasn鈥檛 me. Venture capitalist. You wish. Artist. I said jobs, not hobbies.

So, Perfect won the TriForce UKTV Writerslam at the end of last year. There were four winners, and each of the winners gets a pilot made and broadcast on Dave.

NIKKI- Oh, I like Dave. That鈥檚 good channel, Dave. I can鈥檛 believe this because I remember talking to you about this around ten odd years ago. It was a time when you and your lovely wife, Adele, you let TV cameras into your home to document the birth of your second son. And the documentary was called, We Won鈥檛 Drop the Baby. We鈥檝e got a clip, we鈥檙e just going to play it out now.聽

[Clip]

DAVID- Laurence and Adele have chosen not to have any prenatal tests which could predict impairments in their unborn child.聽

ADELE- We鈥檙e in a position where our impairments aren鈥檛 hereditary, so we haven鈥檛 got hat to think about.聽

LAURENCE- I think our biggest worry was that he could have been born a Tory.

ADELE- Your biggest worry at the time was would he have ginger hair.聽

LAURENCE- Oh yeah.

NIKKI- Oh Laurence.聽

LAURENCE- Those were the days. I wish David narrated all of my life. In my head he does.聽

NIKKI- Are you a Doctor Who fan?

LAURENCE- I am.聽

EMMA- Can I go back to the documentary clip? Ten years on, Laurence, how do you feel about having done that?聽

LAURENCE- I鈥檓 glad we did it. I would never, ever, ever do anything like that again.聽

EMMA- Why not?

LAURENCE- It was seven months of probably they say the most stressful parts of your life are, what, getting married, having kids鈥�

NIKKI- Moving house.

LAURENCE- 鈥oving. Since we had our house remodelled and Adele was pregnant and we had a camera in our faces three days a week saying, how do you feel about that.聽

EMMA- But it did make a difference though. It was definitely for me, who was sort of thinking about potentially going for it with kids at the time, it was useful.

LAURENCE- Going for it.

EMMA- Yeah. It was nice to see other disabled people having a laugh and having a lot of the same conversations and thoughts that we were having as well.

NIKKI- Laurence Clark, you wonder, keep on being brilliant.聽

So, now just a reminder, you can catch Laurence鈥檚 comedy pilot, Perfect, which is about three young disabled people getting up to all sorts of shenanigans on a Fit for Work scheme. It鈥檚 on Dave and it鈥檚 on 26th August at 10pm. But don鈥檛 worry if you miss it because you can catch up afterwards on demand.聽

EMMA- I have seen it already Nikki.

NIKKI- You鈥檝e seen it?

EMMA- I have and I absolutely loved it. There鈥檚 a guy with a really funny sounding communication aid and an absolutely filthy sense of humour, and I really love him. It鈥檚 a great show. Do check it out.聽

NIKKI- You can subscribe to us on 大象传媒 Sounds. And it would be great if you could tell your friends about us too because you never know, they might like some of this random disability chat that me and Emma have every week. What do you reckon, Emma?

EMMA- Tell your mum, tell your teacher, tell the person you always meet on the bus, tell the mountain.聽

NIKKI- Thank you for listening and goodbye.聽

EMMA- Bye.聽