7th October 2022

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 20

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

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NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 [Strictly Come Dancing music] Oh here she is, looking all glitz and glam. Emma Tracey, she is sashaying into the studio. What dance was that Ems?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 That was the Emma Tracey blindy dance move, who doesn鈥檛 know any dance moves. That鈥檚 what that was.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檒l tell you what, Emma Tracey is looking absolutely phenomenal with her Strictly headband in.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ellie Simmonds is on Strictly.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I know, it鈥檚 so exciting.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 A disabled person鈥檚 on Strictly!

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I did a little shimmy when you came in.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Did you?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I did, but you can鈥檛, you know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You wouldn鈥檛 even notice?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 not a great deal of movement going on there, to be honest.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And because you love Strictly, don鈥檛 you, so why don鈥檛 you apply?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I love Strictly so much. Oh, well I can鈥檛 go on Strictly.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Why not?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Emma, I鈥檇 be鈥ook the thing is, I love鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Dance is for everyone.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Dance is for everyone, 100%, it鈥檚 just not for me. Now, the reason why I say that, it鈥檚 not because I don鈥檛 think I could dance because actually for somebody with limited muscle strength I think I have got quite a bit of movement. Like in the pool I can twerk, I can shimmy, and I used to love movement when I was younger. But my arms are just as weak as my legs, and I use a scooter, and I so I feel like I鈥檇 be so restricted in what movement I鈥檇 be doing. So, really all I could do is move my head, do a bit of a shimmy, and move an arm. And I just think if I was a brilliant wheelchair dancer you know like those amazing wheelchair dancers.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Kate Stanforth.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, flying around the dancefloor, flipping and dipping and doing all sorts.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 The only way 鈥� and I would consider doing Strictly with this, right 鈥� have you ever seen those sling bungee classes? You鈥檙e basically harnessed up, you do aerobic stuff. I think it鈥檚 like for you non-disableds to not wreck your joints.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Right, yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 But me I see it as a way where I can fly like Superman. And you put your little harness on and the bungees take, I鈥檓 hoping, all of your weight, though I don鈥檛 think it does, it takes some of your weight. Now, if there was a way where I could go in a sling bungee harness get-up.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 For the whole of Strictly?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 for the whole of Strictly, welcome to the floor Nikki Fox.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Would they dare vote out a bungee sling?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檇 look the audience right in the eye down the camera and I鈥檇 say, 鈥業 love this show too much for you not to vote me in just because I鈥檓 a sling bungee wearing disabled鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, it鈥檚 a reasonable adjustment.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 Access All, our weekly disability and mental health podcast from the 大象传媒. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I鈥檓 in London.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, and I鈥檓 also in London. Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 She鈥檚 in London too. Yes. Now, a lot has been going on politically hasn鈥檛 it, Emma?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It has.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Hashtag understatement. And we at Access All have been trying to solve a mystery. This is the mystery of the missing disability minister.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a bit of a tongue twister, I know. But Liz Truss has been Prime Minister for a whole month now and still there is no news on who will be appointed Minister for Disabled People. I鈥檝e been checking every day pretty much. Now, Chloe Smith, who used to in that role she has a new job, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. And despite us trying our very best, the government has told us it has not officially confirmed who is going to get that role.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Any ideas who it鈥檚 going to be, Nikki?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, funny you should say that, Emma. The Access All team has been doing some digging, as have some of our fellow disability journalists, and it feels like we鈥檙e closing in on the missing minister. So, first John Pring from the disability news service he discovered that [drum roll] 鈥� did we oversell that? 鈥� MP Claire Coutinho was listed in the role on the app for the Conservative Party conference which took place in Birmingham.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. Then lovely Liam O鈥橠ell who was on this show a couple of weeks ago talking about BSL, who writes for the Limping Chicken, he revealed that he had spoken to Scope, who told him they鈥檇 met with Miss Coutinho in the capacity as Minister for Disabled People.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e going to run out of breath there, Ems.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 one big disability charity thing that.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It is. And it gets better, Emma. We were doing a little bit of scrolling through the Twittersphere and the team itself have tweeted how wonderful it was to meet Claire Coutinho as the new Minister for Disabled People at the party conference. And, there鈥檚 more.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 She re-tweeted it!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, if the biggest charity for deaf, blind people also thinks she鈥檚 the Minister for Disabled People then it鈥檚 a done deal, right?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, you鈥檇 think so, wouldn鈥檛, you, Em? But despite putting all of that to the government they鈥檙e refusing to confirm or deny. Although the poor press officer who has had to deal with this eventually said, 鈥楾he best thing I can say is that ministerial portfolios have yet to be officially confirmed鈥� with strong emphasis on the word officially, if you catch my drift. Do you get me?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I do, I do. I think I know what you鈥檙e saying.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay. Now, we鈥檝e already put a bid in to talk to the new minister when they鈥檙e appointed, because there鈥檚 quite a lot to talk about, isn鈥檛 there, Emma?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Just a wee bit.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 From cost of living to benefits. So, Claire, if you鈥檙e listening, me and Emma would love to have you on. And I鈥檓 sure all of our lovely listeners have got lots of questions that they鈥檇 like to put to you, so come on.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, come and see us face to face in the studio.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So, supposing, just supposing it is Claire here are five facts on 听Claire Coutinho.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Cue the music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 At five, Claire Coutinho is the Conservative MP for East Surrey. At four, she鈥檚 younger than both of us at 37.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, that鈥檚 depressing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Uh-huh. At three, before she went into politics she used to work in banking. Number two, her parents came to the UK in the late 鈥�70s, they鈥檙e from India and they鈥檙e both doctors. And number one, in 2014 she appeared in the cooking gameshow The Taste.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, there you go. Of course us doing this whole song and dance routine, it鈥檚 going to be very embarrassing if it turns out to be someone else.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I鈥檝e got confidence. And, as we鈥檝e said, the bid is already in to talk to the new minister, whoever that might be. But we definitely, definitely need questions from you Access All鈥檈rs for when that happens. So, what would like to know about her? What do you want to know about her plans? And what do you want her to know about you and the disability community?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檇 quite like to know whether they鈥檙e going to stay in the job for longer than a year.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Is that the usual?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Since I鈥檝e been in this job since 2014 there鈥檚 been around seven I think.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Who was your favourite?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Ooh, okay, I鈥檓 not talking. Ooh, that might get me into hot water, Ems. The one I had the most fun with, Emma, was Mike Penning. We were filming a news piece, we were invited by Mike鈥檚 team to go and look at an accessible beach in the UK. Mike and his team spent about two hours trying to find the accessible beach. So, we ended up walking up and down, and up and down, and up and down, looking for what was essentially a ramp onto the beach.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Oh man.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And then a walkway to the sea.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So, was he embarrassed?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 He was quite funny actually, Mike Penning. He鈥檚 a bit of a joker. He鈥檚 a bit of a cockney lad.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Right.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 He鈥檚 a cockney Tory. And yeah, he was all right. He just sort of brushed it off, he was like, 鈥極h we got there in the end鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What does a disability minister actually do?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I think the issue that a lot of disabled people have with the role of disability minister is the brief is actually quite small; it鈥檚 mainly focused on benefits. And of course, as we know, being disabled our lives are not just benefits.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 No. We鈥檙e not defined by the benefits we receive.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 We鈥檙e not defined by the benefits, no. we need improvements in many areas in life, healthcare, social care, employment.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 But they have no remit in any of those areas?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 But they don鈥檛, no. For me the role of disability minister, and you can have this for free government, right, is that you鈥檙e across everything. You should be across all areas.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And that you鈥檙e a disabled person as well maybe?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, you know, it鈥檚 a novel idea, isn鈥檛 it? I don鈥檛 know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And not all disabled politicians will want to be the Disability Minister obviously, but it would be a good role model situation, wouldn鈥檛 it?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, if you鈥檝e got any questions or concerns, or there鈥檚 anything you want us to look into, or you鈥檝e got some great stuff happening in your life that you just want to share you can get in contact with us. You can tweet us @大象传媒AccessAll, or you can send us an email accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or if WhatsApp鈥檚 your bag our number鈥檚 0330 123 9480, and you can send us a written message or an audio note, whatever. But please, if you could, put the word Access at the beginning.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Now, speaking of messages we have got some lovely ones after last week鈥檚 interview with The Chase鈥檚 Ann Hegerty. You know I love Ann, don鈥檛 I?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 She鈥檚 an absolute star.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I email her a little bit too much actually. Now I鈥檝e got her email that鈥檚 it, I鈥檓 always like, thanks so much Ann, stay in touch Ann, don鈥檛 forget me Ann. Now, she did reveal to us what her autistic life is really like behind all that glitz and glamour of TV, including very detailed lists on how to complete everyday chores. Now, Ben Potts tweeted us and he said, 鈥業t was an excellent interview with Ann Hegerty. Very relatable examples of executive dysfunction. I鈥檝e also broken a task like laundry into tiny more manageable steps because I can鈥檛 see the bigger picture and get motivated鈥�. Thank you so much Ben. I鈥檓 glad you found that interesting. I found Ann hugely fascinating.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah. I also think it鈥檚 just nice to hear someone who has stuff going on that鈥檚 relative and relevant to your own life. So, like Mr Sean Dilley, who was on the episode last week, and he was talking about his guide dog Sammy and retiring Sammy, he was also dreading a two-year wait for another guide dog. Sean told us that within 30 hours of all the coverage of his story, which was all over the 大象传媒 last Friday, the charity Guide Dogs received 110 applications from people wanting to volunteer as puppy raisers. So, hopefully that will help the whole process along.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 amazing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Is that just raising a puppy then?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You get the puppy for the first 14 months of their lives, and you get them all socialised and take them to puppy classes.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And then you have to give them back. But I鈥檓 not saying that that鈥檚 a bad thing because then you get another puppy. So, don鈥檛 worry about it giving it back, it鈥檚 all good.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 110 applications, that鈥檚 brilliant. Now, Sean鈥檚 story also prompted Angus McKinnon to email accessall@bbc.co.uk all the way from North America. I love the way Angus describes himself, he says, 鈥業 am a blind Canadian that is owned by a guide dog, and has a neurological disorder. I find it interesting that the issues you talk about are the same as the issues we are all still fighting in North America鈥�. He added, 鈥楳y ancestors are from the Isle of Harris鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ah, Scottish roots.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Hey. Now, we love hearing from you, and we especially love hearing from our North American listeners. We鈥檙e a global pod, aren鈥檛 we, Ems?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We are, listened to all over the world.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Spread the word.

JINGLE-听听听听听听听 Access All.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 How safe do you feel going out and about, or even using social media? According to new hate crime statistics things are getting worse for disabled people. Reported incidents of violence are on the rise, and the number of cases that result in someone being charged with a crime is at 1%. Convictions are even lower. This week two national disability charities, Leonard Cheshire and United Response, released figures looking into this. And the government has released similar information. Emma, what did we find out?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The charities submitted freedom of information requests to 43 police forces in England and Wales. They heard back from 36, with the majority of saying that disability hate crime had increased in the past year. Only 1% of all hate crimes against disabled people resulted in a charge, or a Crown Prosecution Service referral. So, that鈥檚 way before any sort of court case gets the go-ahead. Remember though those are the incidents that are reported; it鈥檚 thought that this could be the tip of the iceberg.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, Cassie Lovelock has joined us today. Hello Cassie.

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Hi.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And we really do appreciate you coming on to talk about something so awful but very important. So, thank you so much. Now, unfortunately you鈥檝e experienced hate crimes as a disabled person on several occasions. But can you tell us about one of the incidents that happened to you?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 I was getting on a bus in London and, I don鈥檛 know if you鈥檝e taken buses in London but they have automatic ramps that slide out for wheelchair users to get on.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 And there was this woman who was there with her baby and one of those non-folding buggies and she also wanted to get onto this bus. And we sort of got into this bit of a spat about her saying, 鈥榃ell I need to get on this bus because my baby is asleep鈥� and I was sort of there like, 鈥榃ell, it鈥檚 my right to sit on this place in the bus. You can lift up your baby, you can hold them. You have to fold down your buggy, that鈥檚 sort of the law鈥� and she was really angry and really refused and was like, 鈥楳y baby鈥檚 sleeping. I don鈥檛 want to do that. I need this space on the buggy. You can wait for the next bus鈥�. And the driver put this ramp down and I started pushing my way up and this woman pushed me out of my wheelchair off this ramp while I was trying to get in the bus.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Pushed you out of your wheelchair?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Yes, onto the ground. It was very humiliating.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Actually out of your wheelchair?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Yeah. And I will say TFL, the driver he was really lovely. He was like, 鈥楾hat鈥檚 not acceptable鈥�. He helped me onto the bus. She wasn鈥檛 allowed to go on the bus, and it sort of resolved itself. The disability I have it means it didn鈥檛 have any particularly very strong detrimental impacts. But for someone who had maybe like a brittle bone related illness that could have killed them.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Did you report this incident, Cassie?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 I chose not to, mostly because it was dealt with. I鈥檝e reported one to the police, and I鈥檝e tried once to report one to a social media company, and that did not work.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Could you tell us about the one that you reported to the police? Is that okay?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Essentially these two men took my wheelchair, with me in it, and sort of pushed me down the street away from where I was waiting for my boyfriend, and started threatening me. I reported this to the police maybe six days afterwards and I didn鈥檛 really hear anything back and I didn鈥檛 really get that much of a response. And these men were making sort of sexual threats at me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Did your boyfriend find you? What happened?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 I essentially pushed myself straight into a road, and luckily wasn鈥檛 hit by a car. And then a security guard in a shop found me, and I asked him to call my boyfriend, and my boyfriend pushed me home.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And it must have been unbelievably terrifying for you?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 For me, obviously it was scary, I don鈥檛 ever want to downplay that, but for me that was really awful was I was asking people around me for help, I was looking at people sort of left and right, like please help me, I鈥檓 not with these people. I always thought of it as like I guess me being disabled and me being visibly disabled really made what I was saying irrelevant to them.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 What else made it a disability hate crime, in your opinion?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know if you鈥檝e ever experienced other types of hate crime, but I鈥檓 black mixed race, so I鈥檝e experienced racism in the street and hate crime in that way. And you sort of feel like, oh this is tied to my race, and oh you wouldn鈥檛 be yelling at me or treating me in this way if I was a white person. And it鈥檚 very much a similar feeling of what you鈥檙e doing now you feel entitled to do because of my disability, and if I wasn't disabled would you have picked on someone else or would you have just moved on with your day. And they feel or felt it was acceptable to take advantage of that fact and to treat me however they wanted, because of how society raises people to think about disability.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And you said it took six days to report it. How come you didn鈥檛 report it for six days?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Mostly I wasn鈥檛 sure what it was. Partly of it was like the most extreme thing, did someone just try to kidnap me, what was this.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 What just happened, yeah.

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Sort of thing. And I don鈥檛 have the most faith in the police before this event, but I also didn鈥檛 want to go to the police and be shrugged off. So, I was like I need to figure out what this is and what I can go to the police with before I can start talking to them.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Were you saying there that they were quite verbal as well, verbally abusive and mentioning your disability in that way?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Yes. I have collapsible handlebars so they were sort of pushing those on, breathing in my face. It was during the pandemic and they didn鈥檛 have masks on, and they were clearly drunk. It was a lot of them sort of spitting on me and being like, 鈥極h does the wheelchair mean that you can鈥檛 run away? Oh, can you not run away in bed? We鈥檒l show you a good time. Let鈥檚 post some pictures of you鈥�.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 How did all of that leave you feeling about just going out and about and doing everyday things?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Oh, it鈥檚 terrifying. I use a range of mobility aids, I use my wheelchair, I use crutches, I use walking sticks, all sorts of things. And even now, whichever one I鈥檓 using, I get the same anxiety about what if something happens, am I going to be able to get away, am I going to be safe. How do you get over all of these things? I don鈥檛 really think that you do.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Has it stopped you doing anything?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Oh yeah, absolutely. I changed where I food shop. It鈥檚 changed a lot of little things about like how is this journey safe, where is this journey going to take me, is it going into alleyways, those sorts of things. I鈥檝e changed little things. And I鈥檝e also changed big things about missing out opportunities in my career because I didn鈥檛 feel safe going to where they were happening, or I didn鈥檛 feel safe on public transport or the train, those sorts of things.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 The Home Office released its annual hate crime figures for England and Wales at the same time as the charities. Now, it stated there had been 14,242 disability hate crimes in the year ending March 2022. An increase of 43% on the previous year, and double since 2017, with stalking and harassment offences the most commonly recorded. But when the two charities, Leonard Cheshire and United Response spoke to disabled people many said they didn鈥檛 really know what counted as a hate crime, and they wouldn鈥檛 know how to report it if something did happen to them. Now, we鈥檙e joined by Ali Gunn from United Response, which gave us these figures, and Ali is going to put all of these into perspective for us. Thank you so much for joining, Ali.

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hi.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 One thing I was touching on there with Cassie is what is a hate crime and what is a disability hate crime?

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The Home Office definition of hate crime is any criminal offence that鈥檚 perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic. So, with disability hate crime we mean that any criminal offence is motivated by a person鈥檚 disability or perceived disability.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 How do you go about reporting it?

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 There are several ways that you can report a hate crime: you can obviously go directly into a police station once a crime has happened, or after, as Cassie did, a few days later. You can call 101 if you鈥檇 rather report it by the phone. But we know that that鈥檚 not always accessible for everyone. Or you can report online on the True Visions website, which is a website run by the police specifically for disability hate crime. But we know that people can be really nervous about reporting hate crime, so there are support services set up that can help you prepare your report and help you talk through what happens and how best to describe that to the police. There鈥檚 also third party reporting centres who will actually make the report on behalf of you.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Also Ali, why are the number of incidents increasing but the charge at the end of the day why is that figure so low, that 1% figure?听

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, the numbers increasing could be down to a number of different factors. It could be that hate crime is on the rise; or it could be that actually reporting procedures have improved. So, whilst those numbers are rising, obviously there鈥檚 an issue there that disabled victims aren鈥檛 getting access to justice. So, this year for the first time United Response asked police forces to reveal their no-charge outcome data. That鈥檚 the reasons why a disability hate crime report didn鈥檛 result in a charge. And what we found was that around 50% of the no-charge outcomes were a result of either the victim withdrawing support, evidential difficulties despite there being a named suspect, or that the police were unable to find a suspect.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What can the disabled person do when reporting a hate crime? What sort of information would be good to include?

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Whilst it鈥檚 really important for the victim to capture as much as possible what they hear, what they see, or what鈥檚 happening the date, the time, the location; we actually think it鈥檚 a duty of all of us, so the community, to support disabled victims. So, if you witness a crime you might feel uncomfortable or nervous to go up at the time, but afterwards please go up and support the victim. Give your phone number, give any information that you were able to record at that point in time about what happens.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And Cassie, just bringing you back in, do you think there鈥檚 enough support out there for victims? Did you get any support for anywhere?

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 think I received any, but I will readily confess I didn鈥檛 look that hard.

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 why it鈥檚 really important that every police force should have a disability liaison officer because that person would be your point of contact, they鈥檇 be the link between the community and the police force, ensuring that you get access to support as and when you need it. And signposting as well, because you might not feel comfortable or you're experiencing trauma, so you might not be in a place to look for it, like you described.

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Even in the most basic sense it would have been helpful to have someone just validate the fact that it was a horrible experience.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, this story crosses a whole lot of organisations, which we have reached out to. I鈥檝e got a few statements here. The first one, a National Police Chiefs Council鈥檚 spokesperson said to us that, 鈥楶olice always pursue action against perpetrators where there is evidence to do so. We are already working closely with our Criminal Justice partners to understand the reasons behind the reduction in the percentage of crimes that go to court. Victims should speak to the police as soon as possible after an offence has been committed鈥�. Now, the CPS told us that of the cases referred to them by the police, that鈥檚 that 1% figure we spoke about earlier, it authorised charges in 84% of those cases last year. It added, 鈥楿pon conviction we always seek to apply for an increase in sentence to reflect the hate crime element鈥�.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, thank you both so, so much. Ali, I guess United Response are going to keep on collating these figures on a yearly basis?

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, absolutely. This is a really important issue for us and the people we support, and we鈥檙e not going to stop until we stamp out hate.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, thank you so much. And Cassie, you鈥檙e a superstar. Thank you so much for talking about something so horrific. We really do appreciate it. but it鈥檚 very important, so thank you so much.

CASSIE-听听听听听听听 Thank you for having me.

JINGLE-听听听听听听听 Access All with Nikki Fox.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, I鈥檝e already binged the TV series my next guests star in. It鈥檚 the fabulous brand new 大象传媒1 sitcom Ralph and Katie. I know Emma is a massive fan.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Oh, I love it.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e a good man, Ralph. What I鈥檇 give for a man like you. I鈥檓 taken. For now. Perfect couple. Not perfect maybe, but at least you know you鈥檒l never have your heart broken. Never again? What do you mean? My heart was broken once, but not by Ralph. Was it? Tell me girl? I鈥檓 not going back there.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, I love that one. The series is all about Ralph and Katie, who have Downs Syndrome. If the names sound very familiar that is because we first met both of them in the 大象传媒1 drama, The A Word, where they shared a few storylines with the main character and we saw them get married. Oh, that was beautiful too, I watched that. They were so popular with viewers they鈥檝e now got their own show, which is all about the domestic challenges, and of course the bliss, that all newlyweds face in the first few months of marriage. And they鈥檙e here with us now. And Emma and I are beyond excited; we鈥檙e both very fan girly today.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yes.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It is the wonderful Sarah Gordy and Leon Harrop, and the producer of the programme, Jules Hussey.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yay.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Hello everyone. 听

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 Hi guys.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh this is the dream, this is the dream. Let鈥檚 start off. I wonder, how did you feel when you found out, following The A Word, that you were going to be getting your own primetime series?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 I felt like it was amazing. I can鈥檛 wait to actually do Ralph and Katie. It鈥檚 something that I love doing with Leon. Leon is my partner in crime really.

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 I was absolutely happy and excited. I was jumping around.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I love that you鈥檙e such a tight team and that you love working with each other so much. It鈥檚 that mix, isn鈥檛 it, because your comedy timing, both of you, is just absolutely wonderful. But then you get the emotion, and it鈥檚 the perfect balance. And you two are just phenomenal actors. Leon, I was saying I have watched quite a few episodes, and I hear you鈥檝e got your own favourite episode and I wondered what that was.

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 My favourite episode is episode five.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, Ralph, why did you want to see me? I found a lump on my testicle. You鈥檙e absolutely right to come and get yourself checked out. Men with Downs Syndrome are known to be of higher risk of testicular cancer. Oh.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And how did you prepare for it, Leon?

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 I went to this cancer thing.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 You went to an exhibition, yeah.

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 And I learnt a lot around what it鈥檚 like to have cancer or what.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 Episode three Sarah Gordy excels in. It鈥檚 a fantastic episode about caring and about how Katie learns to care for Ralph and not be like her mum.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I feel like a pothole. I think you鈥檝e been brave. I鈥檝e been a pillock. You haven鈥檛, I love looking after you.

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 The thing is Katie鈥檚 mother can be a nightmare at times, and she鈥檚 very, very negative. But Katie doesn鈥檛 do that. She鈥檚 more caring, more loveable with Ralph and his position. And Katie鈥檚 the one that knows him.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 What I love about the whole programme is okay, you guys both have Downs Syndrome, and you鈥檙e touching on areas that other people may not be familiar with, but it鈥檚 not about that at all. You鈥檙e just any married couple. Jules, I wanted to ask you, was that kind of the main drive with the series?

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 about a married couple just navigating through friendship, jealousy, tensions, parents potentially splitting up. And it was really important that that was the driving force. We have an amazing group of five disabled writers that worked with each other, and they all had an episode each, and they鈥檝e all done some fantastic stories. And Downs is touched upon occasionally. Katie gets very angry in episode one about assumptions people make about her because of her Downs Syndrome.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Every day of my life people think I can鈥檛 do things for myself. Every day I have to take that shit. But not from you, not from my husband!

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 They鈥檙e just people. And these guys, when they talk about their Downs Syndrome, they talk about it being not how they want to be described.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 it.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 Isn鈥檛 that right, Sarah?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 not about disabilities and it鈥檚 not about Downs Syndrome; it鈥檚 about the person behind it basically. That鈥檚 what I鈥檓 always pointing out.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Assumptions. Ooh, that grinds my gears, I tell you.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Grinds my gears. Leon and Sarah, I want to ask you both this question, what was your favourite episode to film? Shall I start with you, Leon?

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 My favourite is episode six, right at the end.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 At the end of episode, I鈥檒l try not to do spoilers, but Ralph and Katie make a big decision to live their lives the way that they want to, and they just do their own thing. It鈥檚 just fantastic to see.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Sarah, what was your favourite filming day?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 When Ralph and Katie get together and have a talk about what鈥檚 wrong with Ralph. Because it was very, very windy and very, very wet and you can鈥檛 even hear my voice that well.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 Sarah鈥檚 very good at remembering the worst day, aren鈥檛 you Sarah? That was in the Lake District. How many layers of clothes did you have on in the Lake District, Sarah? Can you remember?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 I can鈥檛 remember. Was it 13?

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 It was a lot of layers, wasn鈥檛 it? It鈥檚 a lovely scene with you and Nigel, who plays your dad, it was a lovely scene, but you were absolutely bloody freezing, sorry, you were absolutely freezing, weren鈥檛 you? I can tell you one big secret about Leon Harrop: in the episode three where he鈥檚 hurt his leg and he was on the sofa a lot, he was so tired that he quite often fell asleep.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Leon!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So, Leon your on-screen mum, played by Pooky Quesnel, you guys are going to host a podcast series together. What do you talk about in that podcast?

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 We鈥檙e talking about all the episodes and have special guests.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 On episode four that was quite an unusual guest.

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 That was my mum.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ah. I鈥檓 so glad you said that because, can I just say, thank you to the disabled writers who wrote this show and to Pooky Quesnel because from my experience being disabled and having a mum they鈥檝e written the mother of a disabled person so, so brilliantly. But I鈥檓 absolutely in love with the mum character in Ralph and Katie as well. Did you and Pooky get on well on set, Leon?

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檝e got three mums: my real mum, Tanya; I鈥檝e got Pooky who plays my mum; and also Jules as well.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Leon, if anyone asks, tell them your real mum is your favourite.

JULES-听听听听听听听听听 Another mum I want to give a shout-out to is Sarah鈥檚 mum, Jane, who鈥檚 been fantastically supportive of your career, hasn鈥檛 she?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 My real mum is Jane, and she always supports me, she always helps me with my lines. She鈥檚 been a great friend to me.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Is this the only job you ever want to do? Do you love it, love it, love it?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I love it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Can you imagine doing anything else, Sarah?

KATIE-听听听听听听听听听 I love doing acting because I always read books, and I think about the different characters.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 escapism, isn鈥檛 it? And Leon, this is the real deal for you, isn鈥檛 it? You want to carry on acting for as long as, I imagine?

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 I have got stuff in mind, but I cannot tell you that yet.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ooh.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Secret, secret. You guys are really leading the way. Thank you so much. I just want to mention Ralph and Katie will air on Wednesday night on 大象传媒1, or you can binge the entire lot on iPlayer. And don鈥檛 forget you can also listen to the sitcom鈥檚 companion podcast, Inside the World of Ralph and Katie. And that鈥檚 presented by Leon and Pooky, and it dives further into living with Downs Syndrome. Thank you both so much.

LEON-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 been absolutely amazing, thank you.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Good luck with it all guys. Oh, I love Leon and Sarah. I was about to say I love Ralph and Katie.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I know, you really have trouble figuring out which is which, don鈥檛 you? You kid of think they鈥檙e real people, Ralph and Katie.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 We love that series, don鈥檛 we?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We do. We鈥檒l be watching the rest of the episodes and listening to the companion podcast.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, if you like what you hear subscribe to us on 大象传媒 Sounds and tell your friends, tell people you鈥檙e dating, tell strangers, because it really helps us get heard by others. Oh, and then also press them to subscribe as well. Oh, and then they can rate us as well.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, and they can review us too if they鈥檝e got a few minutes spare.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, if they want to say something nice, go for your life. Bye.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Bye, see you next time.

JUSTIN-听听听听听听听 So, Sarah, we鈥檝e been asked to put together a trail for Americast. What do you think we should put in?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Well, is it too obvious to just say that we鈥檒l be covering all the biggest stories that a coming out of America?

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 We have to be prepared to tear it all up because something that we鈥檙e not expecting is going to happen.

JUSTIN-听听听听听听听 I think that works, but it鈥檚 not just that, is it? We need to talk about the undercover voters investigation, looking at what鈥檚 happening online, what everyone鈥檚 getting in their social media feeds.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 What they allow us to see is what someone who has a specific set of views or is from a specific demographic or a specific place might be seeing on their feeds. 听

SARAH-听听听听听听听 And of course we鈥檝e also got to mention all the amazing guests and experts that we have on the show helping us understand the stories.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 This is a great talking point for him in the court of public opinion, but it is not going to go very far in a court of law.

JUSTIN-听听听听听听听 And Americast of course isn鈥檛 just about politics and news, is it? Can we get something in about the more cultural, the social stuff too?

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It kind of is in keeping with the conversations that we鈥檙e having in this country about race and colonialism and the legacy of those things.

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Yeah, as long as you include that I think that about covers what we do.

JUSTIN-听听听听听听听 And then all I need to say at the end is, Americast is a podcast from 大象传媒 News and you can find it on 大象传媒 Sounds.

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Yeah, well you have just said that.

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