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Katie: Hello and welcome to Adapt The World : where we're asking the question, "If you were to rebuild the world tomorrow, what three things would you change, to make life fairer and easier for disabled people?鈥� I鈥檓 Katie Thistleton from Radio 1鈥檚 Life Hacks : which you can listen to everyday Sunday from 4鈥� And with me today is my lovely co:host : social media superstar and disability rights campaigner, India Sasha!聽

India: Hello! Thanks so much for having me鈥� I鈥檓 a content creator, and I have a rare congenital hand defect called Symbrachydactyly which basically means I have no fingers on my left hand鈥� and I鈥檝e used my social media to help change the way people see disability鈥� which is exactly what this podcast is about! In every episode, we鈥檙e going to speak to a disabled person about the three things that they would do to adapt to the world, to make it more inclusive for them鈥� from the things that seem so silly, that we don鈥檛 already do, to huge societal changes we need to see. And joining us on the show today is Jazzy, she鈥檚 a deaf Youtuber and her videos are all about deaf life and aims to share all the positives of life in the deaf community and help hearing people to find out more about deaf awareness and sign language.聽

Katie: And Jazzy is joined today by her interpreter Amy, so the voice that you're going to hear is Amy's voice鈥β�

Jazzy: Hello it鈥檚 lovely to see you both, thanks for having me here today.聽

Katie: Thank you Jazzy. Jazzy can you tell us about your Youtube channel and why you set it up.聽

Jazzy: Oh that鈥檚 an amazing question. So I started in 2015 and I think I鈥檇 just left school at the time. It was before then I really loved watching YouTube and lots of the different videos on there but I didn't feel like they were accessible, there were no subtitles, there were no deaf people on YouTube I felt like even there was no inclusivity there and I just thought ooh, I was thinking what I could do and I thought why not film a video?

So I did it first linking to make up because I was studying a make up course at college at the time. I was very nervous because I put my face on a public place, but actually I received lots and lots of positive comments from deaf people saying 鈥渇inally, there鈥檚 a sign language user, a deaf youtuber with subtitles鈥� and it made me just realise that it's聽 actually really important to have different deaf role models because then we feel the same as everybody else in society.聽

Growing up, I didn't really have a role model growing up because when I was younger social media wasn't a thing, but now actually social media is such a big thing with lots of potential to have lots of deaf role models there.聽

I love to create lots of videos just linked to challenges with my hearing family. My parents can sign so I communicate with them. I use British Sign Language (BSL), to show that we have a good relationship and also to show that people who are deaf can have hearing parents, and how important it is to learn BSL for their deaf child so they can access the conversation and have a good relationship with them.

I also love travelling and I like to show that on my YouTube to show deaf people can travel just because I'm deaf it doesn't mean I can鈥檛 travel, it doesn鈥檛 stop me travelling. And also, I film challenges with my best friends and it's just lots of different types of topics.聽

But actually the main overall topic is raising deaf awareness, because growing up I did have barriers with my deafness. For example being rejected, or having subtitles or if there are no captions on any content in that world I don鈥檛 have access鈥� communication barriers, not having access to interpreters, so lots of barriers there.聽

So actually all the videos are raising that and raising deaf awareness but actually now the audience now is both hearing and deaf people so there鈥檚 a mixed audience which is good so that鈥檚 why my aim is to raise deaf awareness. So that's my journey so far.聽

India: I think that鈥檚 the sort of story that we quite often hear from people with various disabilities and differences where they've noticed this gap, where there's something that isn't being filled. There's so many people out there that need someone to look up to and show them that they are so much more capable than would often their kind of expected to be capable of and so it's absolutely amazing that you have you seen that and you've been that person to fill the gap and be that role model you didn't have when you were growing up.聽

Jazzy: Yeah definitely, I feel like growing up I just felt like there was the gap and I felt like I needed to do something, I couldn鈥檛 just back off. I needed to do something and set up the videos, and now I work with brands and TV so I think it's just we need to do something. So I noticed that you鈥檙e right, when I was growing up there was something missing, I felt like there was a gap and I needed to fill that gap. So, from then, in my journey I鈥檝e worked with brands, TV and I think it鈥檚 just important to have deaf representation and just to make other deaf people feel included because if you see an advert with a disabled person or a deaf person, it鈥檚 like oh that鈥檚 like me! You don't feel alone and you don't feel isolated, so actually, when you see people being represented on just general adverts on the TV which is unique and it makes me feel happy when I see deaf people on TV adverts, or brands working with deaf people because I feel like I fit into society and the deaf community fits in, it鈥檚 lovely.聽

Katie: And everyone deserves to feel like they fit..聽

Jazzy: Yes, yes definitely. So growing up I didn't feel like I fit into that mould.聽

Katie: Let's get into the three things that you would change if you have to rebuild the world then to make it back to a place for disabled people. What's the first one Jazzy?聽

Jazzy: Oh it鈥檚 a big question, I鈥檝e got lots of things on my mind! Erm鈥� What鈥檚 really, really important is to put captions on any content that people create because deaf people like me, we want to enjoy the videos like every other hearing person so when you speak and there鈥檚 no captions it just means it's hard for me to access. I can鈥檛 enjoy the video the same as the hearing people in society. It could just be, not just the videos, it could be videos in places at work or the cinema, cinema have few subtitles available, which is very limited. Sometimes the cinema puts subtitles on a really late night show like 10pm and I don't want to go at that time, I don't want to be restricted. The subtitles are limited. So I actually think about subtitles, I just want to see a big change of more subtitles and more captions. when you think about Instagram, now there's an automatic option to add captions so I think people should use them more as it is quite easy to do.聽

Tiktok, they have automatic captions and you can edit them so that you automatically click the button, it automatically does it and then if there's a word that's wrong you can change it, so it only takes a few moments to change and edit it and that means deaf people in the community to access your content, so you can have more views!

Katie: That鈥檚 really interesting.It's probably something that a lot of content creators haven鈥檛 thought about but like you say it takes 2 seconds and that just means a whole other audience gets to enjoy your videos.聽

India: I actually thought about this before whenever I was doing my videos it was maybe about a year ago I noticed this new future something on Tiktok where you could automatically have your captions turned on and so I do have them turned on but I even myself sometimes don't think to actually have a look to see if what they have generated is accurate because even with my accent it can so quickly change it to something that isn't accurate and even after this conversation I'm going to take that little bit of extra time for all it is to make sure that my videos are absolutely accessible.聽

Jazzy: Yeah, it only takes a few moments, it鈥檚 so simple. It鈥檚 much harder for me, because I鈥檓 deaf so I never use my voice, so I have to create subtitles for everything I sign, iIt does take a long time but I do for both my deaf and hearing audiences too so it means that everybody can enjoy them. I just want to ask you the same thing for the same thing in return.

Katie: Jazzy what is the second thing you would change about the world?聽

Jazzy: Okay, so the second thing that I would like to change to make it easier, is to have deaf awareness training, in workplaces, or in schools or in education settings. Really I just feel like a lot of hearing people just don't realise like deaf issues. For example, if you want to get a deaf person鈥檚 attention, you can just tap them on the shoulder, or wave, don't feel nervous to approach a deaf person, just go over to them and tap them on the shoulder or wave. And when you鈥檙e talking to a deaf person, make sure you鈥檝e got eye contact because some hearing people when I'm talking to them will not look at me, they will look at my interpreters or they will just not give me eye contact, it makes me feel like, Hello? Where am I? I feel like I鈥檓 invisible when I don鈥檛 get eye contact. So, that鈥檚 part of deaf awareness, so just look at me please when I鈥檓 talking. So just deaf awareness in general actually, I think that's really important to educate ,a lot of people don't realise the simplest of things, and I just think make it a bit more of a normal thing in places of work and educational settings.聽

Katie: Something that鈥檚 come up a lot in these podcasts is that diabled people just wanted to be treated like everybody else and it seems to be quite common that people will avoid disabled people and they feel quite isolated because people don't know how to treat them so again, you've raised that point by saying you can approach as you can tap us on the shoulder, don't avoid me because of my disability.

Jazzy: Yes, definitely. So honestly just talk to a deaf person like you would talk to any other person. It鈥檚 just a little bit of a different way of communicating. All deaf people have different ways of communicating, so some deaf people can speak, some deaf people only sign, some deaf people can do both, maybe just ask their preferred communication methods. Maybe you could type notes with each other like we were doing earlier, India. We were sitting outside and we were passing our phones over.聽

So I normally use that with hearing people or we can gesture, it鈥檚 just basic signs would be really good. Some deaf people prefer speech and that is fine, so deaf people just have all the different communication methods.

Technology is crazy, wow, I never had that when I was little. Like, it鈥檚 crazy, technology changes massively. I'm really grateful that there is technology at the moment, because if I ever feel isolated or lonely I can just FaceTime my friends rather than texting because BSL is my first language, so I prefer signing with my friends.聽

If I want to approach a person to communicate and they can鈥檛 sign we can use paper or we can use notes we can use either method so it's crazy the advancement technology have made and the benefits I can have out of that.聽

Katie: Yeah, amazing.聽

India: And what would be your final thing that you would want to change about the world if you could tomorrow?聽

Jazzy: So the last thing I would like to change is, I just wish big events, or GP appointments or any appointments, interpreters were booked. Because it would actually make the life of a deaf person so much easier because it's a big burden for deaf people to make interpreters are booked. They can鈥檛 find an interpreter, it鈥檚 a big burden to look for an interpreter and for a deaf person to have that extra responsibility. It鈥檚 not our fault that we can鈥檛 communicate with hearing people, we can鈥檛 help it, being deaf. And it would be really good if theatres, festivals or raves automatically booked the interpreter so that deaf people have more opportunities to go and enjoy things like hearing people do. Even appointments like GP appointments, doctors and when I鈥檓 making an appointment I always let them know that I am deaf and I wish it was an automatic that it was on my system that an interpreter was booked, rather than me having to chase it up, making sure the interpreter鈥檚 booked.聽

Like problems with booking interpreters, it is a huge problem in the community and I just wish it was easier for deaf people to access, so I think that's what I would aim to change in the future.聽

India: So, if you were going to go somewhere for example to a doctor's appointment or to a concert or something, would it be your responsibility, would you have to go and find an interpreter and book yourself?聽

Jazzy : So really, it just depends, so if I make an appointment at the hospital, I always ask them to book it, so they book the interpreter but sometimes I arrive and the interpreter isn鈥檛 there, they鈥檝e not turned up or they鈥檝e forgotten to book it. Quite often, and we get fed

up because we feel like we can鈥檛 have full access. So for my medical appointments it's like a huge thing, part of our life and it just happens that there's lots of communication breakdown. We maybe use paper but it's not the same for my communication. I just wish people took it a bit more seriously to book the interpreters.聽

I love going to festivals with my friends, my group of friends love to go, we love to dance, we love to watch the show and the lights and the event. But rarely there are interpreters, and I just wish there were interpreters there.

I just wish it was automatic, so we could just enjoy it, and have more options so we can enjoy events like everybody else and we can have the option to go.聽

Katie: Well Jazzy thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, you鈥檙e a fantastic role model.聽

Jazzy: I feel like I've signed quite fast today! I鈥檝e had so much to say.聽

Katie: Thank you so much Amy as well, you do incredible work and thank you for being here today.聽

India: Thank you both, honestly it鈥檚 been great to have a chat with you and to hear your experience of life, it鈥檚 been great to have a chat with you.

Jazzy: Thank you for having me here today.聽

Katie: If you want to hear more incredible people like Jazzy share how we can make the world a better place for disabled people download the 大象传媒 Sounds app and search for Adapt The World.