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Katie: Hello and welcome to Adapt the World, which is all about learning how we can make the world more accessible and inclusive for disabled people from content creators that you might have already seen online. My name is Katie Thistleton and I'm on Radio 1's Life Hacks every Sunday and I've got my wonderful co-host, India Sasha with me, who you probably have seen coming up on your TikTok.

India: Hi Katie. I'm India, I'm from Belfast and yes, I'm one of those content creators! I make TikToks and stuff about my disability, which, it's called a big, long name called Symbrachydactyly but I just call it my baby hand. I have no fingers on my left hand and I love to make content about it. I like to make people giggle and I feel like comedy's the best way to kind of, you know, connect with people in the universal language of laughter.

Katie: It's very true. It is the universal language. Well, in this podcast, we're asking disabled people. If you were to rebuild the world tomorrow, what three things would you change to make life fairer and easier? And in this episode, we are speaking to Jessica Ping Wild. Jessica was born with a rare genetic condition called child syndrome. 

She has a shortened arm and an amputated leg on the left side of her body. She was born in America and she now lives in London, where she runs her own blog called The Rolling Explorer. Hello, Jessica! 

India: Hi. 

Jessica: Hi! 

Katie: Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Jessica: Thanks for having me. 

India: So tell us more about you. Tell us more about what you do.

Jessica: So like you India, I make content online about my disability, about my experience, and mostly actually about my lifestyle and like kind of what it really looks like authentically to live with the disability, the good, the bad, and the purely chaotic as I always said…

Katie: What are some of the types of videos that you've made then? Can you give us a little example of some that have, maybe done particularly well? 

Jessica: Yeah, I just actually did a commentary on, um, the new kind of phrase that's coming out, people of determination. Uh, I make a lot of videos about travelling that I do, I'm actually about to put out some content about a recent trip to Ireland I went on and just stuff like that. Just like lots of little fun things. Some fashion stuff, some casual coffee chats. It's all there. It's all fun. 

Katie: Your neck of the woods. [India]

India: Yeah. Yeah. Funny. Yeah! We're in ireland. Did you go? 

Jessica: Dublin. 

India: Oh, lovely. That's a bit more glamorous than where I’m from, I'm from Belfast. 

Katie: Oh, Belfast is great! 

India: Well, it's not glam, but if you say it's great, then...(laughter)

Katie: They're both great cities. What made you wanna start your own blog then? 

Jessica: I've always loved writing, so actually my blog and content really started on my website with proper, like, blog posts that I would write and have a lot of fun doing. And that's what I studied in school too. So that's like what I felt like I was born to do but then within that, it kind of, turned into this thing where I was starting to make videos to promote the blog posts and I really enjoyed that. And then I got signed by a modelling agency and started getting more involved with that sort of thing and it just kind of all spiralled and snowballed, in the best possible way.

India: Amazing. Well, let's start with the first thing. What would you change about the world, Jessica, if you could change everything tomorrow? 

Jessica: The first thing that I would change if I could change anything and everything about the way the world works is, I would make sure that every major city had accessible public transport.

Jessica: I personally find the transport system in London to be very frustrating, but at the same time, I know it's better than a lot of the rest of the world. So it's one of those things that I know how much that public transport is important for making sure that people can get to work and get equal opportunities and even just go to the grocery store or go visit family and friends and live a full life and if the public transport is not accessible, then disabled people are instantly excluded, instantly discriminated against, instantly left out, and not invited to the table. 

Katie: Hmm, that's a really good point. 

India: Yeah. And how do you find that with, I suppose you said that you do a lot of travelling and stuff. Have you found anywhere that is, is doing better?

Katie: Well, yeah. Where's, where's setting the standard? 

Jessica: You know, I'm from the US and I would say Washington DC was one of the best cities that I've been to in terms of public transport. The buses there were all accessible. I'm pretty sure most of the underground stops were at least every single one that I went to was wheelchair accessible, so I was really impressed by that. Um, but. I don't necessarily, I, I've not lived there. I feel like one reason that I can be so critical of London's system is because I live here and I experience it every single day. And I feel like that's a real calling card because in my experiences with traveling, public transport tends to be more accessible in touristy destinations. 

Katie: Yeah. I'm always quite surprised by how few tube stations in London are wheelchair accessible. 

Jessica: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: and you know, I don't have a disability, so that only affects me when I've got a big, massive suitcase. And it always makes me think every time I'm like, God, you know, what are people… what are wheelchairs doing?Like, you know, how are they able to, to get around? And in a city like London, you know, You rely on public transport to get around, don't you? You can't drive everywhere. It'd be an absolute nightmare. What kind of difficulties have you come across when you are, you know, using the tube or using the buses?

Jessica: The buses in particular? I know most people are like, oh, well, all the buses are accessible. But I have faced so much discrimination on buses, from bus drivers, from people with buggies, from people with suitcases. And everything in between that I, I really am put off of using the bus at this point. Um, so I would prefer to use the tube, which is, as you said, not very accessible.

So it just makes it get, like, getting around very difficult. But I'm very lucky and blessed to live in Central London so I can drive my wheelchair around to most locations, but it's not perfect by any means, especially if it's raining and cold outside. That's not the ideal. Yeah. 

Katie: So what kind of discrimination is that then? So is that, if you are in sort of like the disabled seats and, and people are not wanting you to sit there because they've got prams or cases or whatever?

Jessica: It's a mix of people already being there and the bus driver's not requesting that they move even though there's space or the other thing that has happened, unfortunately, is I've been in the space and a buggy user has tried to get on and kicked up a whole, whole just mess of a fight with the bus driver trying to get them to boot me off, and I'm like, that's not, okay. 

Jessica: What! It's a first come, first served situation. You're already on the bus! 

India: Literally there's a big sign on public transporters, or not, that this is priority scene or this is priority space for people who have mobility. Like, is that not... 

Katie: There's always a sign there isn't there? It's obvious you can sit here if, if there's no spot. But like move if somebody needs this seat. Yeah, that's how it works. Can't boot someone out and they're already on the blooming bus!

India: Yeah. 

Katie: Wow. That is, that is, uh, awful. Yeah. Can't believe people behave that way.

India: I'm in shock on that one. 

Katie: Yeah, I am. Let's get onto the second thing that you would change about the world, Jessica. What would it be? . 

Jessica: The second thing I would change would be the representation of disabled people in the media. I think that is one thing that I really push for on my own blog and my own channels, because to me, I always look at representation as being a mirror of our society, and if disabled people are left off the roster, then we're gonna be left out of so many things.

Jessica: And I took this really insightful college course when I was at University. That talked about the way that celebrity culture and media and all of that really does impact the way that society thinks, and it kind of tells society what we should and should not care about. And so to have authentic representation is so, so important.

So I would love to see every single production that gets made, whether that's on stage or in a magazine or a commercial, a TV show, a movie. All of these things I would love to see. Adequate and authentic representation of the disability community. 

India: I was actually gonna ask you about that because I feel like, obviously there is a big push right now for diversity and inclusivity and stuff in a lot of different areas, but I feel like a lot of the time it's not just about being included, it's about being positively included.

India: Like for example, in movies and stuff, the characters, they're always playing the disabled character. They're not just playing the love interest, they're not playing a teacher, they're not playing. Just normal people and that's exactly what we are. We're just, our reality looks slightly different and I completely agree with you.

India: I'd love to see a lot more just regular people with disabilities just playing regular roles that everybody else,

Katie: so it's not about that necessarily. 

India: Like yeah, 

Katie: the film's not about their disability, but just in a romcom, but they have a disability. 

India: Yeah. Yeah. We just so happen, to also be disabled. 

Katie: Yeah.

Jessica: Exactly. That is a hundred percent. Like I picture, like a show, like Friends where there's just.. Like Joey's in a wheelchair instead of like, just on two legs, then that would be cool. Like why not? Why not? Why can't we just have that be part of ...

India: normality? 

Jessica: The picture that we need for ourselves? Yeah, normality.

Katie: Yeah, you're absolutely right. It should be and hopefully we're, hopefully we're stepping in that direction. Yeah. 

What's the third thing that you would change about the world, Jessica? 

Jessica: The third thing that I would change would be the fear that people have about disability. Fear is a huge reason why disabled people are still so discriminated against, and if you look back throughout disability history, you can see that that is oftentimes what has led to such horrible treatment over the past centuries of existence. And I believe honestly that if we were able to get the general population to be more empathetic, understanding and take away that fear and help them understand that disability is not this big spectacle, it's a normal part of the human condition, and really show that it's just natural. It's part of life, it's part of just being an existing human being on this earth. We can do that.. then I believe a lot of other things will fall in line. If the fear is taken away, then we can change the world. 

India: Yeah. I love that. I absolutely love that. 

Katie: Yeah, it's an amazing point. And, and you know, to go back to your, your second point, if we had that representation, that that fear would go away 

India: mm-hmm.

Katie: Wouldn't it? Because it would just become so normal 

India: Yeah. 

Katie: To see people with disabilities. I was saying to you, India, that, you know, the ´óÏó´«Ã½, we hire a lot of disabled people. The ´óÏó´«Ã½ just seems to be, I don't know what the stats are, but seems to be quite a good employer for that kind of thing. 

India: Yeah.

Katie: And I remember when I first started working at the ´óÏó´«Ã½, I saw more disabled people than I'd ever seen in my life. 

India: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: And it became, um, it just became so normal to walk into a room and see somebody with a disability. Obviously not all disabilities are visible, and I remember thinking at the time, like, oh, I, haven't seen that many people.

I've got an uncle with a disability. But other than that, I hadn't seen this representation before and I remember thinking, If that had just been everywhere as a kid, you wouldn't get people staring, you wouldn't get people being shocked. You wouldn't get that fear, like you say, of like, oh, I dunno how to treat this person because you, it would just become so normal, wouldn't it?

India: Yeah. And it is kind of like, it's, it's hard because you can't really know these experiences. You can't really, have that perspective, you kinda need to be exposed to people with disabilities 

Katie: yeah it's the exposure. 

India: Yeah. And I think that's something that really we can push for and can try and do better with having that representation, so that people are getting or being given the opportunity to be exposed to different types of people, so that the people that actually have disabilities have a better interaction just in general in life.

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

Jessica: 100%. Like it's, it's so, that point is so important to me and that's one of the reasons why I make the content that I do to show that disabled people can live their lives and we are out here living our lives. And it's not something to be afraid of. It's something to, it's not something to be inspired by either. It's just something that happens. It's just life. And that's normal and that's okay. And that needs to be accepted. 

Katie: Jessica, you are brilliant. Thank you so much for chatting to us today. 

Jessica: Thank you so much for having me. I hope you guys have a great day. 

Katie: Thank you. 

India: Thank you.You too, it was great chatting to you. And if you want to learn more about how we can make the world a bit better for disabled people, there's more episodes just like this one that you can listen to right now by searching for Adapt the World on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Sounds app. Bye! 

Jessica: Bye!