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Katie: Hello, and welcome to Adapt the World where we want to know the three things you'd like to change about the world to make it a better place for disabled people. My name is Katie Thistleton and I'm a presenter on Radio 1's Life Hacks which you can listen to every Sunday at four O’clock. And co-hosting with me is the wonderful India Sasha, hey India!

India: Hello, thank you so much for having me. 

Katie: Thank you for joining me, it's so great to have you tell us a bit about you…

India: So I am a content creator myself, I do a lot of TikTok. And most of my content is focused around my disability which is called Symbrachydactyly. It's much harder to spell than it is to say actually, funnily enough, but essentially it means that I don't have any fingers on my left hand. So a lot of my content is trying to normalise that. I'm trying to educate people while also giving them a bit of a giggle along the way.

Katie: Love it. Your TikTok's are excellent. I was watching them this morning. Thank you so much. We're so happy you're on this podcast with us. And we're asking the question, if you were to rebuild the world tomorrow, what three things would you change to make life fairer and easier for disabled people? So today, we're joined by a very special guest, and we're asking this very question to Blind Tobes. He's also a content creator, a blind content creator, and he shares funny stories a little bit like you do India, about how he can figure out what you're wearing, without being able to see you and what life is like as a blind man. Hello, Toby. 

India: Hello.  

Blind Tobes: Hello!

Katie: How are you doing?

Blind Tobes: Hello. Not too bad thank you, how are you both?

Katie: We're very good. Thanks for joining us. Toby, tell us a little bit about you then how would you describe yourself?

Blind Tobes: Oh, I'm a bit of a maniac. A bit of a loose cannon?

Katie: Straight in there with that!

Blind Tobes: To be fair, I've mellowed out in my older years now. I used to be a bit of a mess when I was younger. But no, I'm Yeah, similar to India, content creator, sharing stories about being disabled. Again, some of them are funny. Some of them are educational. But yeah, trying to have a laugh along the way, I guess similar to India.

India: Could you give us an example of the type of video that maybe went viral on your page just to kind of explain it for people that are listening? 

Blind Tobes: Yeah, I had one recently that blew up. And I wasn't really expecting it to. I guess that's the way that Tik Tok works, it's the ones you don't think will do well just shoot up really well. It was about parking in a disabled spot and getting bombarded with questions from people I've seen you get out and people like myself who don't have a visible disability, you know, getting out fine not only have mobility issues, and kind of questioning why you're parking there, and sort of taking the moral high ground and you know, that’s a disabled spot, right. And, you know, slightly comedic, but also kind of yet very much drawing upon my real life experiences. So yeah, that's the types of videos that go viral on my page.

India: I love that. 

Katie: Yeah,that's really, really good. Like you say, it's such an issue, isn't it that have you experienced that, Toby? Have you had somebody sort of come over and be like, hey why are you parking there?

Blind Tobes: Oh, my God. Yeah. So many times. Honestly, if I had a pound for every time someone came up to me, I could actually get a mortgage in today's climate.

Katie: Wow, that's a lot of money.

Blind Tobes: Yeah, I know, honestly. Some people are more nice about it just being like, I don't know if you're disabled. But that is a disabled spot. It's like, yeah, fair enough. Whatever, nice, good for you for checking. When other people do come over and be a bit more aggressive, like why did you park in there? What are you doing? Like, you're clearly not disabled? And then I just whip out my cane. And that shuts them up quite quickly.

Katie: Whip out my cane as if you know, you're gonna hit them with it, which you're obviously not going to, but I sort of  like the way you said that. Why don't people just mind their own business?

Blind Tobes: No no, not purposely anyway.

Katie: Toby can you tell us some more things that you've maybe done videos about that maybe people have commented and been like, oh, wow, I never knew that this was a blind person's experience. This is something I've not thought about before.

Blind Tobes: Yeah, I guess I get those comments a lot actually, it's pretty, pretty regular. Because I think people assume that as a blind person, I just sit in the dark all day, listening to Stevie Wonder and not really doing anything. So things like cooking, people are often really surprised when I can, you know, cook up a meal relatively well might not be the most aesthetic, meal in the world, but I can eat it, it's edible, or even things like just going to the gym and staying active and fit and, you know, staying on top of my health. People are quite surprised about that. And generally what assistance is available, all of the technology that we have, whether that's on our phones, or laptops, people are quite surprised at how advanced the world is for blind people now. 

Katie: Is this something you find as well, India? 

India: I feel like with different kinds of disabilities, you kind of get the same kind of questions that pop up all the time. I'm sure you're the same. There's certain things that you probably get comments on all the time in your comment section. And you're just like, it's getting so old. I don't know how many videos I've done addressing this question or this comment. 

Katie: Oh, what's yours then? 

India: Umm mine is actually one of the most common ones is how I do my makeup, which kind of doesn't really make sense to me because I still have one other completely functioning hand and you only need one hand to hold something. So it's kind of funny at the same time, it's like I can't believe people have these these questions like what has how they went their whole lives without kind of making that sense and not ever being in the position to learn something about that like, it just it seems strange to me, but I suppose it's my reality. And it's kind of hard for other people if they haven't lived that life, to see the things that are obvious to me, but maybe not so obvious to them as I'm sure like Toby, you're very familiar with.

Blind Tobes: Yeah, definitely. It's the concept of familiarity for us. Life is so mundane, and we don't have to think about it. I'm sure you obviously with your makeup. It's just like, oh, put it in my good hand. You know, I mean, people obviously have these questions that pop into their head, and they feel the urge to, to ask them, I think it's a good thing that they do ask because obviously, it means that you're creating a space where they feel comfortable to ask. But for us, yeah, it can get annoying when the same questions just keep popping up, and up and up. And we've made 10s of videos on it before.

Katie: Yeah, scroll down the page there's already a video about this. Go to the pins guys!

Blind Tobes: It’s literally in the pins. 

Katie: It's there…Toby, let's get on to these three things that you would change in the world then, to make it more inclusive for disabled people. What would be your first one?

Blind Tobes: Okay, so the first one that I've gone with is kind of looking at the mindset, or the attitudes that people have towards disabled people, which sounds really vague. But I've alluded to it earlier in the sense that people think that I just sit at home all day doing nothing. I think the general consensus is that disabled people are totally dependent on others, not independent at all, not capable. So if I could, I'd like to alter the the mindset that people have, you know, and see that we are actually functioning human beings I've been sort of in in public places where, you know, it's maybe a staff room or in sixth form in school, and I've been maybe making a cup of coffee, pouring a kettle, and someone's come over and grabbed it off of me and said, Oh, you shouldn't be doing that you get you're gonna hurt yourself, or things like crossing the road, if I'm stood there for a second too long, just because obviously, I'm relying on my ears not looking. So it does take me longer to do things like and I've just been grabbed and pulled over the road. Which is obviously not a great thing because, you know, I rely on knowing exactly where I'm at all times. If someone moves me out of my kind of path, I'm totally disorientated again. You've done more harm than good. So I think, yeah, it's important to know that we are functioning people, we do know what we're doing, we're trained, or most of us have been trained to live our lives independently.

India: I love that. I love that I can feel that as well. You're always underestimated. I feel like whenever you've got a disability, people completely, almost write off that you're a completely functional human being, you're just your reality just looks slightly different to what their reality would be for them. So I agree with that. And I like that one.

Katie: Yeah, I think that's really great. What would be a second one, Toby?

Blind Tobes: My second one. And this is going down the blind avenue cause obviously that's what I'm most familiar with. Keeping pavements clear. I can't stress enough how much hassle it causes me when someone parks over a pavement or there's like someone put their bin right out in the road and I don't know what I'm doing. People with wheelchairs can't get by, people with potentially crutches or walking sticks, it'll be a struggle for them to get by. So it's a very, it's not a world changing one but keeping paths clear is a massive bugbear for me. 

Katie: Wow. See, that's something I have seen a little bit of online. And I'll be honest with you until sort of a few years ago, I sort of maybe saw those comments. I had not really thought about it, I suppose. And like you said, people do people, I live on a street that's there's not much room for the cars to people park on the main road. And people do sort of park their cars onto the pavement. And then I tell you why I came became aware of it. You know, like when you have a community Facebook group, and my sort of town has a community Facebook group. And by the way, I think they're absolute gold. Like they're full of people complaining about stuff, and there's always drama, there's so much comedy on them. People always going, why is the helicopter going over? Who's setting fireworks off? You know what's going on down the Spa? I love it. It's gold. But I've seen comments on there before from people saying yeah, they can't get past with mobility, scooters or with buggies. And it's something that selfishly you don't think about when you're a driver, selfish drivers not thinking about pedestrians as always. 

India: Like same with me though, even though I'm kind of in that space. I genuinely hadn't really thought about it, because it doesn't affect me or my disability or my life. So I hadn't thought about it until maybe a couple of years ago whenever it was drew to my attention.Through, I think it was like one of those Facebook page or maybe Tik Toks or something that i'd seen that it was somebody talking about their life experience. And that's why I think it's so important for to make your own life experience kind of available. Whenever you're comfortable, obviously, like you are and just kind of share what you feel. And that's why I really like this question as well.

Katie: Alright, Toby what's your third one?

Blind Tobes: For people to start taking the initiative, if you feel as though someone is distressed, if they're disabled, and you feel as though you could offer them some help take the initiative, don't tread on eggshells and think you're gonna offend the person by offering help. I think a lot of people with disabilities like myself would agree but we'd much rather have the help offered to us than be ignored. So there's times where I'm stranded. I don't know where I am. I've got totally disoriented and I've stood there sort of 10-15 minutes. Just while trying to figure out where I am. If someone were to come up and just said, are you okay? Do you know what I mean, can I put you in the right direction that would have helped me out and saved me a hell of a lot of time. That's happened countless times. So I think people are very scared to offend. But I think sometimes it's okay just to take the initiative and offer up some help if you can.

Katie: That's a really good point, you know, like, on the one hand, you don't want, like your first point was obviously, like, don't assume that disabled people can't look after themselves. But at the same time, you don't want to go too far the other way, and just not ask somebody for help. But I think people are maybe a little bit scared that they'll offend someone, like you say that, you know, they offer somebody who's blind, they offer somebody who's blind help, that there'll be offending them. But you would say to go for it, would you?

Blind Tobes: Well, this is why I mentioned these two points, because they're almost contradictory, which is what you just highlighted there. And it may seem as though it's kind of a catch 22 for someone without a disability. But I think it is just a balancing act in the sense that, you know, don't come to me while I'm pouring a kettle and say, oh, I'll do that for you. You know, don't try not to be condescending with it. But if you can genuinely see that someone's in a bit of distress. Don't feel as though you need to tread on eggshells and scoot past them and not to offend them. Do you know what I mean, it's a hard one. And that's why I mentioned both of them.

Katie: Yeah, but I think there is a balance there that I think most of us would know.

India: Yeah, I think I definitely think there's a kind of a difference between assuming someone needs help. And asking them if they need help. I think there's a clear thing kind of there about not assuming that they can't do it. But if they want the help, it's there. And it's offered to them, you're not assuming that they can't do it just by saying, let me know if I can give you a hand in anyway, I feel like that's something that can generally but just be kind of that perspective. Do you know what I mean? Like the not that if but the can?

Katie: Yes, that's exactly what it is, isn't it? And it's and it's about how you do it as well, isn't it like you say not patronising somebody, and I suppose with the point that you were making Toby about people say, you know, being almost surprised that disabled people can do things. So if somebody was like, what you go to the gym? You know, that would be like, Yeah, I do. But that's different to if somebody saw you struggling, saying, oh, excuse me, do you need some help? And that should go for just human beings in general, whether you're disabled or not. We can apply that to literally everybody, can't we? 

Blind Tobes: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it was summed up perfectly there by India, it's not about the assumption that we can't do it. But having that help available is a different thing altogether.

India: Yeah. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. I think that's the saying.

Katie: Good, good saying. Yeah. And everyone needs a bit of help sometimes, like no matter who you are, everyone needs a bit of help. Well, thank you for educating us today Toby. So what we've kind of learned from you today is the three things to change. Don't assume that a disabled person can't do something. Offer them help though. If you know, you think that they are struggling don't feel like they're gonna be offended if they do need help. And don't park your cars on the pavement.  

India: Keep it clear. Keep the footpath clear.

Katie: I think there's some really good points. So thank you Toby for sharing that with us.

India: Thank you so much for coming on this episode. 

Blind Tobes: Thank you, thank you both.

India: And thank you so much for hitting play. On this episode. We've spoken to more inspiring people just like Tobes which you can listen to right now by searching Adapt the World on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Sounds App. See you soon. Bye bye.