大象传媒

NIKKI- I鈥檝e got a pain aux raisins and I鈥檝e just got to eat it Ems, after last night鈥檚 shenanigans.

EMMA- Yeah, Christmas night out.

NIKKI- We know how to party.

EMMA- Yeah, we did. We do know how to party.

NIKKI- We do know how to party. It was our Christmas do, wasn鈥檛 it?

EMMA- How was that second party you left us for, Nikki?

NIKKI- Yeah, I didn鈥檛 mean to, you know. I wanted to go but I had to go. But it was great, but I did miss you all. But then you went home anyway.聽

EMMA- Well, I had to be ready for today. I had to get my beauty sleep.

NIKKI- She left at ten. Very professional. But I went on somewhere else, didn鈥檛 I, Ems. And yeah, it was a bit of a showbizzy party; the minute we got out of the cab 鈥� which you kind of gave us, thank you Emma 鈥� Libby and I got out and I was like there was going to be Davina McCall there, there could potentially have been Ant and Dec, I know Rylan, he could鈥檝e been there, so really, really showbizzy. I know a few people but not that many. I get out the cab and I see the train guy, Francis, on鈥�

EMMA- I鈥檝e never heard of him.聽

NIKKI- Okay, well you should know. He鈥檚 literally got a gazillion followers. He鈥檚 like this unbelievable train enthusiast, and he鈥檚 a young guy and everyone loves him. Anyway, I only got introduced to him by Libby, my young PA. And I turned around and I went Libby, it鈥檚 the train guy that you like. And Libby immediately called her boyfriend, you鈥檒l never guess. Everyone else, Paddy McGuiness, Davina McCall, they were all absolutely lovely; but she wasn鈥檛 really fazed by. It was the train guy, Francis.聽

EMMA- Was there anybody else disabled at the party? I mean, I wasn鈥檛 there for a start. But was there anyone else disabled?聽

NIKKI- No, having assisted any agency I go to I must be the only disabled. I鈥檝e insisted on that as part of my clause.聽

MUSIC- Theme music.

EMMA- Let鈥檚 do it.

NIKKI- This is Access All. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I鈥檓 in London.聽

EMMA- And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 also in London.聽

NIKKI- Woo-hoo. Now, this is your weekly podcast all about disability and mental health from the 大象传媒. Made by the same team as Newscast and Americast, the big boys. If you like it subscribe, share and tell everyone you know about it.聽

GEORGINA- Nikki Fox, the presenter of Access All podcast, is sitting in front of a screen with wavy purple and pink lines on it. And possibly in a departure from her normal outfit, she鈥檚 wearing a Santa Claus red cape with a white collar and has a green bauble dangling from her microphone.聽

EMMA- Nikki, you changed?聽

NIKKI- I love you. It鈥檚 not my usual get-up.

EMMA- No. When did you do that? That鈥檚 so funny. I鈥檓 really glad I know what you look like now. But that is the voice of Georgina Rose, audio describer extraordinaire. We鈥檝e mentioned it a few times over the last few months so we鈥檝e had Naked Attraction:聽

GEORGINA- Trouser snakes.

EMMA- We鈥檝e had Strictly:

GEORGINA- Johannes walks towards Ellie, standing in the centre of the clock face, then takes her hand. They step to the side, extending their arms, then curling their hands into fists while lowering them.聽

EMMA- I鈥檇 never really thought about the ins and outs of body description. I used it, I listen to it all the time; but since you started asking me questions, Nikki, I have become mildly obsessed with the people involved in audio description and the process. So much so that I invited Georgina Rose to come in for a wee natter. And she鈥檚 here!

NIKKI- Oh my goodness, Georgina, this is like for me having George Clooney in the studio. First of all can I just thank you for not saying, 鈥楴ikki Fox has got 5 inch dark roots鈥�?聽

GEORGINA- I very much wouldn鈥檛 mention that because otherwise I鈥檇 have to say, 鈥楪eorgina Rose, who has hair the same colour as a dead rodent鈥�.

NIKKI- Georgina, that is my natural hair colour actually, you just described that bang on there.聽

EMMA- Stop it. I don鈥檛 know what the dead rodent鈥檚 colour is, so that wouldn鈥檛 be an ideal term in my opinion. Sorry Georgina.聽

NIKKI- Honestly Emma and Georgina, I鈥檓 absolutely obsessed by this, because I think it is the most incredible art form what you do. There鈥檚 a real skill, Georgina, because you must have this kind of line to know what you can and can鈥檛 say, because I guess you could cross it in a way, couldn鈥檛 you? I mean, obviously you鈥檙e not going to say, 鈥楽o and so off Strictly has a magnificent rack鈥� or anything like that. But how much of the personal do you bring into it? Like, how do you know what鈥檚 going too far? Do you know what I鈥檓 trying to say?聽

GEORGINA- Absolutely, and it鈥檚 something that we鈥檙e always reviewing and talking about to make sure where that line is. We also have the issue of exactly how much time we have to describe someone. If I had all the time in the world I could give so many details about eye colour and their hair and how the person carries themselves. But sometimes we only have maybe three or four seconds to get a very, very quick snapshot of what someone looks like. So, we鈥檒l try to do it, like Emma was saying, in a more broad strokes, just to get across, so the person鈥檚 race, an idea of age. But you have to be careful because I don鈥檛 want to put someone down in their 50s and they鈥檙e actually 47.

NIKKI- I know.聽

EMMA- And the race thing is really, really interesting because I watched Bridgerton, and you didn鈥檛 personally audio describe that, and I don鈥檛 believe your company audio described that, but 鈥� I mean, I clearly didn鈥檛 read the blurb about what Bridgerton was 鈥� but it was like a half an hour in before I realised that unlike other costume dramas the cast wasn鈥檛 all white. And it took longer for the describer to mention it. Then on Strictly it was musicals special, and the professional dancers鈥� number you immediately described the colour of the singers鈥� skins. But that is so interesting. How do you make that decision?聽

GEORGINA- I think it鈥檚 really important to say what someone鈥檚 skin colour is straightaway when you鈥檙e introducing someone for the first time. And those singers I definitely thought that it was important. I鈥檇 already introduced all the celebrities and the dancers way back in the launch show with a brief description. So, Jade Adams was a white woman with white blond hair, things like that, because it鈥檚 not my job to make a decision for a blind and visually impaired audience as to what they want to know. I want to think about right, what am I seeing, and I鈥檓 going to directly relate that to our audience. And I hope that it鈥檚, again it鈥檚 something that we鈥檙e always talking about, we鈥檙e always looking at across lots of different areas, but it鈥檚 certainly something. Bridgerton definitely opened up some floodgates about who do we describe, how do we describe them, and it鈥檚 always important I think.聽

NIKKI- What about the rumpy-pumpy in Bridgerton? That鈥檚 where I thought you were going, Emma, if I鈥檓 being honest.聽

EMMA- Oh, the description was great for that, it was really good.聽

GEORGINA- Rumpy-pumpy is my Achilles鈥� heel, because I get really embarrassed when I鈥檓 doing it. And there鈥檚 also an element of am I over-describing it and making it a great deal more explicit than actually what is happening on screen. You don鈥檛 want to say things are going in things when it鈥檚 not actually happening.

EMMA- Well, you have to only say what you can see, right?

NIKKI- Say what you see.聽

GEORGINA- So, you鈥檙e more sort of describing the intensity of what鈥檚 happening and bodies being pressed together, and urgent, hungry kisses.

EMMA- How on earth did you get into this?聽

GEORGINA- I did a degree in theatre. And then I worked more part-time jobs than I care to mention. And I started at the 大象传媒 as a subtitling assistant. I joined the Access Services department. An opening came up in audio description, which was a very, very small department then. I joined and I鈥檝e been with Red Bee Media for 23 years now.聽

NIKKI- And do you love it?聽

GEORGINA- I absolutely love my job. I really enjoy it. I love that when I start work in the morning I could be describing a very deep intense documentary, they I will move on to a programme for pre-schoolers, I鈥檒l hop on to a soap before I finish. So, I love the variety of what I do, and particularly Strictly now that that season鈥檚 in. I basically elbowed everyone else out of the way.

NIKKI- How long does it take you to audio describe an episode of Strictly?

EMMA- And what is the process?聽

NIKKI- And what is it, yeah?

GEORGINA- Okay, so I will get the media file on Monday morning first thing. I will start scripting it. Now, at the moment it鈥檚 slightly shorter because there were less dances recently, so that鈥檒l take me about a day, which is a ten-hour shift to get it scripted.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, I can imagine it does take that long.聽

GEORGINA- I don鈥檛 actually send the script off; I voice it straightaway and then it goes.聽

NIKKI- Amazing.聽

GEORGINA- But now that they鈥檙e doubling up the dances I think for the semi-finals, so that will probably take me a good two days. Then I鈥檒l voice that. Then I do the results show as well, so that鈥檚 more dances and the repeats of the dances that were on the previous episode. So, it鈥檚 normally about three shifts, I would say, and I work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday to get them all done.聽

NIKKI- And I know that you wouldn鈥檛 say things so mean as people say to me on Twitter like I look like a hamster or something like that. You鈥檇 say something nice.聽

GEORGINA- My job is to describe what鈥檚 in front of me, and I can categorically state you do not look like a hamster.聽

NIKKI- Thanks, Georgina, I鈥檓 just getting that on the record from the number one audio describer in the country. Thank you.聽

EMMA- When you鈥檙e watching TV on your sofa do you turn off audio description in your head or are you actually describing what you鈥檙e seeing in your head?聽

GEORGINA- I am describing all the time.聽

NIKKI- I bet you are. It鈥檚 a curse.

GEORGINA- Whatever I鈥檓 watching it鈥檚 always in my head. I鈥檒l be like oh, or I鈥檒l be like, glad I didn鈥檛 work on that. I always think I鈥檇 like to have a go at Raiders of the Lost Ark where there鈥檚 a scene where Indiana Jones has set off a load of booby traps inside a temple, he鈥檚 just taken this gold idol off a stone plinth, he thinks he鈥檚 home and clear, and he runs through and there鈥檚 poison arrows shooting at his head, and then this massive, massive boulder starts rolling down a slope after him. And you鈥檙e like, this guy鈥檚 going to get squashed. He鈥檚 running, he鈥檚 running, he鈥檚 running. That鈥檚 one I鈥檝e always wanted to have a go at.聽

NIKKI- I swear, honest, Georgina, you make me want to be blind. [Laughter]. I just closed my eyes then and I鈥檓 like, yes! You blind guys have got it made; you鈥檝e got Georgina.聽

EMMA- I don鈥檛 even know what to say with that.聽

NIKKI- No, I鈥檓 just well jell.聽

EMMA- Or where to go with that. If we do a live podcast in the theatre we should invite Georgina to come to do the audio description for iPlayer for it.聽

NIKKI- Yes, I鈥檓 in it.聽

EMMA- Georgina, thank you.聽

MUSIC- Access All.聽

NIKKI- This next story is a bit of a toughie. Seven families have just one week to find new residential schooling for their teenage children. Now, that was after they were asked to leave Purbeck View School in Swanage, which is in Dorset, after it was rated inadequate by Ofsted. The parents were told this noise just two weeks ago. Emma, you鈥檝e got more on the story.

EMMA- There are seven pupils who all have complex special educational needs are residential pupils at Purbeck View School, and are settled there. Their parents say the teenagers, who are all 17, have such complex needs it normally takes years to transition them into a new environment. They鈥檙e worried that with nowhere for their kids to go they could end up in emergency placements on the other side of the country at Christmas.

NIKKI- This school, which is run by a private company called Cambian, is registered to care for up to 40 children, all with autism and/or learning disabilities. Now, this is the thing, while as a school Ofsted has rated it good, as a social care provider and children鈥檚 home it鈥檚 been rated as inadequate in the last four inspections. Now, Sarah London is frantically looking for placements for her son, Harrison, and she鈥檚 with us today.聽 Hello Sarah.聽

SARAH- Hello.

NIKKI- Thank you so much for talking to us.

SARAH- Not a problem. Thank you for having me.聽

NIKKI- Thank you so much. Now, first up Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about Harrison?聽

SARAH- Well, Harrison has extremely complex needs. He has autism, severe learning disabilities, he鈥檚 profoundly deaf, he鈥檚 non-verbal, and he has ADHD and behaviours that are challenged. So, to move him from the only home he can remember is going to be devastating for him.聽

NIKKI- And how long has he been where he鈥檚 at now?聽

SARAH- It鈥檚 nearly ten years. He moved to the school when he was seven.聽

NIKKI- And how does he feel about the school?聽

SARAH- It鈥檚 difficult to know because his communication is so limited. But he鈥檚 settled and he relies so heavily on consistency and structure that it鈥檚 all he鈥檚 ever known and he鈥檚 settled there. And he very much enjoys his education because it is very structured, and he鈥檚 built some great bonds with staff down there. Obviously there are problems within the care provision, and I have been looking to get him moved for over a year now, but due to shortage of placements there鈥檚 just been nothing available.聽

NIKKI- And what is the situation as you understand it at the moment? What is going to happen?

SARAH- Honestly I鈥檓 not sure, because we鈥檝e been given very little information. This is such a short timeframe to try and move children with these kinds of needs. A transition would usually take about two years, so there鈥檚 just no way of knowing. But especially because I know there isn鈥檛 a placement for Harrison.聽

NIKKI- Have you tried to explain this to Harrison, what鈥檚 going on?

SARAH- No, we鈥檙e not able to say anything to him until we have a new placement sorted. But obviously we鈥檙e struggling with that, we now face the fact that he鈥檚 going to have no time to process this information and it鈥檚 going to be very, very difficult for him to understand why he鈥檚 got to leave.

NIKKI- And he鈥檚 leaving so quickly. Where is he going to go, Sarah?聽

SARAH- I don鈥檛 know. It鈥檚 been made very clear that it isn鈥檛 safe for him to come home. We can鈥檛 manage his needs, and I have two other young children and it wouldn鈥檛 be safe. And Harrison wouldn鈥檛 cope well with it at all.聽

NIKKI- So, what鈥檚 the worst case scenario then? What are the options?聽

SARAH- The absolute worst case for me, for him going into a hospital, which would be devastating because he will not cope with that, will not understand any of it, and it鈥檚 not in any way meeting any of his needs.聽

EMMA- So, it鈥檚 a week away from this recording day that he鈥檚 supposed to leave. If nothing鈥檚 in place will he actually have to leave next Thursday? How can there be nothing in place? Will the local authority have to jump in and find something for him?聽

SARAH- Yes, the local authority is doing all they can, and it is their legal obligation to find somewhere else. But they鈥檝e just been put under so much pressure with this timeframe. And if the places don鈥檛 exist they don鈥檛 exist, so there鈥檚 only so much anyone can do with this.聽

EMMA- And what, will they kick him out next week?

SARAH- Potentially yes. I won鈥檛 be going to get him, because where would I take him to?聽

NIKKI- Yeah.

SARAH- It is his home, and they have a duty of care and a responsibility to those children.聽

NIKKI- We know you鈥檙e not alone in this, Sarah. There are seven families impacted, aren鈥檛 there? And earlier this week dads, Paul Barren and Kevin O鈥橲ullivan, spoke about the impact on their sons, Eden and Louis, and their worries about the situation.聽

PAUL- We have no idea where he鈥檒l end up because as a family he can鈥檛 actually come back due to the needs that he has and the issues that he has. He has a sibling of five and she would be at risk, so therefore mum and daughter can鈥檛 be in the same facility on their own, which means that I would have to stop work.聽

KEVIN- We鈥檙e concerned that Louis will perceive this as a rejection. He鈥檚 had to deal with a lot of loss in his life: he鈥檚 had to leave home at the age of eight. And Swanage is a home he鈥檚 known for such a long time. So, we鈥檙e concerned he鈥檒l actually see it as a loss of trust in us.聽

NIKKI- Sarah, do you as a parent have any power in this situation? Are you able to appeal the decision or do anything?聽

SARAH- We are challenging the decision legally but again it鈥檚 very complicated, it鈥檚 not a maintained school, it鈥檚 a private company. They鈥檝e removed their exclusion policy off their website, so as parents we don鈥檛 know how to appeal directly to them about the exclusion. So, there鈥檚 very little we can do.聽

NIKKI- When Emma and I were talking about this story as well we kept saying, just before Christmas; it just seems like such a horrendous time to do this as well.聽

SARAH- It is. It鈥檚 heart-breaking. I know Harrison is requesting information about what鈥檚 happening at Christmas, when will he see his family, and I just can鈥檛 give them anything. So, it鈥檚 just horrible. And they鈥檝e done this to the staff as well; potentially there鈥檚 a lot of staff losing their jobs just before Christmas.聽

NIKKI- So, during the most recent Ofsted inspection in October 12 children were residents at the school across five houses, including your son. The report found that there were serious and/or widespread failures that mean that children and young people are not protected, or their welfare is not promoted or safeguarded. Now, that鈥檚 pretty damning, isn鈥檛 it? I mean, are you relieved at all in some ways that your son won鈥檛 be there? How do you feel about that?聽

SARAH- I鈥檝e known that that has been true for a long time, which is why I decided to move Harrison when they had their first inadequate, so I鈥檝e known there are problems. And in some way it was comforting to finally feel that my fears were reinforced by what Ofsted were saying. And I want him out. I want that perfectly clear. It鈥檚 not the right place for him. He is not getting the care he deserves. But this is not the way to do it.聽

NIKKI- But again it comes back to that transition process, doesn鈥檛 it?聽

SARAH- Yes.

NIKKI- And having that time and having that support, and having a suitable provision to go to.聽

SARAH- Yes. And of course they鈥檝e chosen all these children that are 17 or over, which seem to be one of the hardest groups to replace because they鈥檙e not children and they鈥檙e not quite adults. So, where do they go? Harrison can鈥檛 get into another school like he鈥檚 at because they鈥檝e already started transitioning them out at that age, so they won鈥檛 accept someone new coming in; which is completely understandable because it鈥檚 a lot of disruption for them. But then why as a care provider have they then chosen this older group of children to be evicted? As a duty of care they鈥檝e not thought about how complex this process is going to be for these seven children.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, at that age.聽

EMMA- Sarah, I know it鈥檚 a difficult thing to think about at the moment because you鈥檙e in this position, but what are your long-term hopes for Harrison for his future?

SARAH- My aim for Harrison is to get him close to us and his family, because from the age of seven he was forced out of county because there was no provision for him. He鈥檚 missed out on so much, and he deserves to have his family around him. Every day is a struggle for him. The least we can do is give him a family life.聽

EMMA- You鈥檝e said what that鈥檚 done to him, but what has that done to you having him out of county?聽

SARAH- Oh, it鈥檚 changed me as a person, as a mother. It鈥檚 a devastating thing to hand your child over to essentially strangers, and knowing that you won鈥檛 be there to care for them. Especially with Harrison because I can鈥檛 phone him, he can鈥檛 talk to me. I can鈥檛 video chat with him because he鈥檚 obsessed with technology, so that would just only cause other issues.聽

EMMA- A spokesperson for Purbeck View said, 鈥楾his decision was taken after careful consideration, with the aim to focus staff, to address concerns from Ofsted, and to ensure that we have a service that鈥檚 both sustainable and operating at a standard we would expect. We will support the positive transition of the young adults as best we are able on to new services鈥�.

NIKKI- Just quickly, Sarah, how do you feel about that statement?聽

SARAH- It鈥檚 laughable. How can the transition be positive in any way when you鈥檙e giving children with these needs three weeks? And it wasn鈥檛 over careful consideration because they have not had a good rating with Ofsted in their care provision since 2014. They had plenty of time to put in measures and make improvements, and they haven鈥檛.聽

NIKKI- Sarah, honestly, thank you so much for talking to us about this. Please do keep us updated with any developments and also give our love to your lovely son.聽

SARAH- Brilliant, thank you.聽

NIKKI- Now, Em, this is part of a much bigger story, isn鈥檛 it?聽

EMMA- Yeah, that鈥檚 right. The government did a review into SEND, that鈥檚 special educational needs and/or disabilities, earlier this year after saying the system is failing to deliver for children, young people and their families. It wants to improve the system because it predicts that within ten years there will be close to 100,000 children in care, up from 80,000 today. And that includes all care settings, from residential schools to foster care. The government will publish its national SEND and alternative provision improvement plan next year.聽

NIKKI- Now, we do really want to keep across this. Sarah actually got in contact with us on Access All and we looked into this, and that鈥檚 how this came about. So, please do keep emailing us with anything you want us to have a little look into, and we will do it. You can email us with all your thoughts and obviously stories on accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or alternatively open up WhatsApp 鈥� this is my favourite thing to do 鈥� and send us a text or voice note. Our number is 0330 123 9480.聽

EMMA- Just a little warning that this next item discusses young people鈥檚 mental health and hospitalisation. If that鈥檚 not something you want to listen to at the moment come back and listen to us next time. 聽

NIKKI- Now, we鈥檝e got a jam packed London studio today. I鈥檓 normally on my own and Emma鈥檚 in Edinburgh, but I鈥檝e got three people with me today and I鈥檓 very excited about this. We have first of all got James Ledbetter, aka the Vacuum cleaner. Now, we鈥檙e going to get to that in a bit.聽

EMMA- James draws on his own experience of mental health disability when collaborating with young people to make art about mental health. Over the years he鈥檚 asked hundreds of people to tell him what they would like to see in their perfect mental health ward. He also set up a mental health sanctuary in a disused Argos in St Helens. Yup, he did.聽

NIKKI- I love that.聽

EMMA- I know! And for his latest project, For They Let in the Light, James spent time in a centre for young people with mental health difficulties during the height of the COVID pandemic.

NIKKI- Now, two of the young people that James met we鈥檝e got them in the studio as well, and I鈥檓 very excited.聽

EMMA- Woo-hoo.聽

NIKKI- We have Violet and Nemo. Not your real names, but I鈥檓 digging them. And in fact actually I鈥檓 remembering them, which is very unlikely. How is everyone today? Are you all all right?聽

ALL- Yes.

NIKKI- That was done in perfect synch. Now, James, let鈥檚 get this out of the way first, the elephant in the room, why the Vacuum Cleaner?聽

JAMES- So, when I came out of CAMHS myself 鈥� CAMHS is Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services 鈥� after a few years of that getting stable I started to make art as a way to find my place in the world. The very first thing that I did it involved a vacuum cleaner. And like these two I didn鈥檛 want to use my real name so it was just like, well it鈥檚 the Vacuum Cleaner.聽

NIKKI- So, you would say you have experienced mental health disability 鈥搚ou call it, don鈥檛 you, of your own?聽

JAMES- Yeah.聽

NIKKI- So, how does that inform your life and your work then? Give us kind of an idea.聽

JAMES- You make art about what you know, and what I know is my disability, so I make art about that, but increasingly I鈥檓 trying to support other people who might not consider themselves professional artists and going, actually you can make art. I鈥檓 particularly interested at the moment in young people because of my own experiences of going when I was in hospital as a young person I wanted to do creative things but I just didn鈥檛 have that happening in my life, so going actually how can I bring that back for other young people.聽

NIKKI- How bad did it get for you?聽

JAMES- I was in hospital for a year when I was quite young, and that was scary and long. And then I went through some other challenges around homelessness and some problems in my own life, so things got really bleak for me.聽

NIKKI- Really bleak.聽

JAMES- Yeah.聽

NIKKI- And that experience of being in that kind of setting, for someone has it, what鈥檚 your everyday life like when you鈥檙e there?聽

JAMES- It鈥檚 a combination of losing your liberty, so the frustration of that, like you lose control over your life, and just utter boredom. There are some other people nodding right now.聽

NIKKI- Violet and Nemo are nodding along very much.聽

JAMES- It would be much better if we were using hospitals less. But I also don鈥檛 think there鈥檚 something inherently bad about being taken out of a situation in your life and going somewhere to rest and recuperate. I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 a bad idea. But we shouldn鈥檛 be punishing people for that.聽

NIKKI- And so this project, For They Let in the Light, this is where you鈥檝e gone around visiting young people in adolescent mental health settings, that鈥檚 right?聽

JAMES- Yeah.聽

NIKKI- What kinds of situations might lead someone to becoming a patient at one of the centres you were working in?聽

JAMES- That was in one particular hospital and the young people there were struggling with a range of difficulties from common things like depression and anxiety, but also some experiences of self-harm, some suicidal experiences, also some difficulties with drug injury, psychosis, so it鈥檚 a full range. And also that intersecting with learning disabilities and neurodiversity, and then other kinds of social difficulties that a lot of young people are growing up around nowadays.聽

NIKKI- Yeah. And what was the impression of the ward that you visited?聽

JAMES- I would defer to the words of the two other young people in the room who called it a prison.聽

NIKKI- Right. Both nodding, both smiling. Actually let鈥檚 introduce you brilliant people in the room with me. I鈥檝e just got to explain for our listeners who can鈥檛 see, one is wearing a Wolf Alice top, one of my favourite brands ever, and the other is wearing a Fragile, Do Not touch t-shirt, which I think is absolutely brilliant. That鈥檚 Nemo wearing that t-shirt, which is a brilliant way Nemo of saying, back off, I don鈥檛 like touching.聽

NEMO- It鈥檚 on the front and the back.聽

NIKKI- It鈥檚 on the front and the back, just to be absolutely clear.聽

NEMO- Yeah.

EMMA- Nemo, can I tell you my joke?聽

NEMO- Go ahead.聽

EMMA- What is the scariest thing to read in braille? Do not touch! [Laughter] Anyway, as you were.聽

NIKKI- Emma, that was brilliant. Nemo and Violet, thank you so much for being here. If you guys don鈥檛 mind, I just want to get an idea of what it鈥檚 like being in one of these settings from you guys. Shall I start with you, Violet?

VIOLET- It鈥檚 kind of like you鈥檝e been taken from everything you know against your will in some cases, and, I don鈥檛 know, it鈥檚 terrifying.聽

NIKKI- Really?聽

EMMA- Because it sounds scary and hard as it is, but with COVID restrictions on top how did that make it harder?聽

VIOLET- I wasn鈥檛 allowed to see my family. I had to see them through a window for about a month. And then they weren鈥檛 allowed to come onto the ward for about three months. Then I was allowed out to see them.聽

EMMA- What were the staff like? Did they have to wear masks all the time? Could you see anyone鈥檚 face?聽

VIOLET- No, we couldn鈥檛 see their faces; they did have to wear masks all the time. Most of the nurses were in scrubs or like uniforms, so it just felt very impersonal. When I first got to the ward I had to isolate for about three days in my room on my own.聽

EMMA- And that was you coming into a mental health inpatient setting, so you weren鈥檛 feeling very well anyway, and you had to stay on your own?聽

VIOLET- Yeah.聽

NIKKI- And do you mind me asking, Violet, how bad were you feeling at that time? And did you need to be taken out of your environment and put somewhere else at that particular moment?聽

VIOLET- Yeah, I was not safe at home. I didn鈥檛 get the help that I wanted. I didn鈥檛 get a therapist immediately. So, I was in for an eating disorder. Initially I didn鈥檛 go in for an eating disorder; I went in for suicide ideation.聽

EMMA- So, it sounds like it was pretty bleak. What happened when James came in to visit? What did you guys get up to when James arrived?聽

VIOLET- At first I absolutely hated him.聽

NIKKI- Oh my goodness!

JAMES- No, no, it鈥檚 fine, it鈥檚 fine.聽

NIKKI- Not James. I loved him immediately.聽

VIOLET- Because it was like a change to my routine, and it was different, and these new people came in and they thought they could relate to us. And then he told us about his own struggles and kind of allowed us to relate to him.聽

NIKKI- Nemo, can you tell me about your experience of being in one of these inpatient settings?聽

NEMO- Like James said, it was the equivalent of the prison, but funded by the NHS. So, the staff were always stressed and they would take it out on us, when we were having our own problems. It made me personally feel like I was an inconvenience for being there. And it was just really difficult being in that situation when I was already in pretty much the worst place you could be.聽

NIKKI- Really?

NEMO- Yeah.

NIKKI- How old were you at the time?聽

NEMO- When I was first admitted I was 16. I had my 17th birthday on the ward.聽

NIKKI- So, when James came and you met him did you take to him straightaway, Nemo, or did you have instant dislike?聽

JAMES- You can be honest, it鈥檚 fine. I can take it. I鈥檝e had therapy.聽

NEMO- They sort of had to prove themselves to me in a way. They weren鈥檛 here to hurt me; they were here to help make us feel comfortable and safe and have fun. And that鈥檚 what they did.聽

EMMA- What would you say to the people who say that the money that鈥檚 being spent on art would be better spent on like therapy and medication and research and beds?聽

JAMES- I guess so first of all we鈥檙e not funded by the NHS, we鈥檙e funded through the Arts, so it鈥檚 a different funding stream. But also yes, the human brain might need things like medication and therapy and a healthy diet and all those kinds of things, but we鈥檙e also talking about the human mind, and the mind is different. The mind needs soothing. And I think one of the amazing things that art can do is sooth the mind. These guys will tell you about what that did for them in terms of being able to talk about what they were going through. The thing that we were trying to do is make a film. Obviously the young people in the hospital couldn鈥檛 appear in the film, so we gave them iPhones and we said, 鈥榊ou film it, you direct it, you write the script, you write the text, and we鈥檒l get the staff to perform it鈥�. Immediately we鈥檙e flipping the power dynamic in that environment. And then we鈥檙e saying to the young people, we brought questions in like, why are so many young people struggling with their mental health? You tell us. There are enough researchers looking at the question, but you tell us what鈥檚 going on. And then they would write responses to that. And often that began with a sentence, 鈥楧ear adults鈥�.鈥� And then through that they鈥檙e bringing in other material. So, Nemo wrote a song; Violet wrote a letter to 鈥榤y future self that wants to relapse鈥�. So, they were making films that involved, like one of the young people did a whole dance routine where they choreographed all of the staff in the central courtyard where all these guys filmed it. So, it was just about capturing a sense of that environment.聽

NIKKI- Why are so many young people right now struggling with their mental health?聽

VIOLET- I have a rant about mental health crisis care that I wrote.聽

JAMES- This actually opens the piece.聽

NIKKI- Violet please, let鈥檚 hear this.聽

VIOLET- Why is it that those struggling are left until crisis point to receive the care they most desperately need? Why is it that we are left until we are quite literally on our death beds before anyone even believes that we are in pain? Why are so many vulnerable people put in inpatient units as a last resort, when community treatment wasn鈥檛 even attempted properly? It is not coincidence that there are more people in crisis than ever, given that we are left alone to deteriorate while being told to have a cup of tea, when in need of real support. As someone who has struggled since age 12 I have been through the system for years, and not only is it not improving, but it鈥檚 getting worse. At age 12 when I first presented to CAMHS with severe mental health symptoms I was given medication and told I would grow out of it. I did not grow out of it. I hate to break it to you CAMHS, but a prescription for fluoxetine and six weeks of counselling with a psychologist who didn鈥檛 even remember my name is not going to solve anything. CAMHS is impersonal and ineffective, treating young people with mental health struggles as problems that are inconvenient to them. It took me to reach crisis before anyone took my struggles seriously. And by then it was too late, and I was beyond the point of believing there was any hope for me to get better. I was put into a ward against my will, my rights and belongings stripped of me, and I was forced into treatment. This is not recovery; this is traumatising for anyone, let alone a child. We are not being listened to. Stories of children dying in inpatient units across the country are horrific and scary, that children are allowed to take their own lives in places meant to keep them safe, that wait lists for support can be up to two years, and even then medication is forced down your throat and you are told to shut up and stop being dramatic, that people have it worse. Things need to change drastically, and if you keep quiet about this you are part of the problem.聽

NIKKI- Oh Violet, that鈥檚 so powerful the way you鈥檝e written that. Thank you for sharing that with us. Honestly, thank you so much.聽

EMMA- Thank you Violet.聽

NIKKI- Can I just ask Nemo and Violet, are you doing okay at the moment? Are you in a good place?聽

VIOLET- Yeah.

NEMO- I鈥檓 fine.聽

NIKKI- Nemo鈥檚 fine.聽

EMMA- Grand.

JAMES- That鈥檚 what Nemo says to everything. But if you dig a little bit below that you鈥檙e doing incredible, compared to where you were when I met you a year and a half ago, the transformation is ridiculous. You're now at the 大象传媒, you鈥檙e showing in a major London gallery. That鈥檚 a phenomenal transformation.聽

NIKKI- Thank you James, thank you Nemo, thank you Violet. It鈥檚 been really wonderful, so thank you so much and thank you for sharing your personal stories.聽

EMMA- We spoke to the NHS trust that Violet and Nemo鈥檚 care falls under to get its point of view. We鈥檙e keeping the trust鈥檚 name anonymous to protect the identities of both young people. this is what it had to say:聽

NHS TRUST- When young people come to the point of needing hospital admission it comes at a difficult and unsettling period in their lives, both they and their parents and guardians have quite likely been on a long and upsetting journey. They can feel quite desperate, out of control and extremely worried about the deteriorating situation. Despite out adolescent mental health unit having a positive impact on many, it can be hard for young people to trust that things will get better and that treatment plans will help them get back on track in the end. We are really sorry that it has felt so difficult for these young people. We are supporting our staff to deliver the best care, and are working with service users to listen and learn from their experiences as well as develop services to support more young people at home.聽

EMMA- Nemo and Violet though?聽

NIKKI- I know, they were amazing. That takes a lot as well to open up like that.聽

EMMA- Yeah, absolutely. And James was all right too, wasn鈥檛 he?

NIKKI- Yeah, James was great. It鈥檚 been a great show. Thank you so much for listening. Now, as always you can email us. The email address is accessall@bbc.co.uk. And if you want to grab your blower now鈥�

EMMA- My blower?

NIKKI- Telephone Ems, telephone.聽

EMMA- Oh yeah, okay.聽

NIKKI- Open up WhatsApp and put our number in, save it, drop us a voice note or send us a message. The number is 0330 123 9480.

EMMA- And put Access at the start please.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, that鈥檒l help us out a bit.聽

EMMA- And we listen to every message.聽

NIKKI- We do. And thank you very much for listening, and we will see you again next week when we will drop it like another pod like it鈥檚 hot, drop it like it鈥檚 hot. Bye.聽

EMMA- Bye.聽

[Trailer]

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