大象传媒

27th April 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 50

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Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

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NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Have I told you who I鈥檓 sleeping with at the moment, Ems?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Dave the gardener, I鈥檓 hoping. Or your new blow up legs maybe?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 No. The nozen.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The nozen?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a small little device that I shove up my nose. It鈥檚 not that exciting really. I was lying in bed the other night thinking, 鈥榃ow, when did it get to this point?鈥� when just before bed I鈥檝e taken off my make-up, got my hair all ready, then I have to insert two invisible braces, one for the top, one for the bottom teeth, and then I have to stick this contraption up my nose to widen my nostrils.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 To widen your nostrils. So, this is the need he meets for you. Why is he a he?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 This is the what, what, what?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The need he meets. This is how he meets your needs, nozen.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah, the noz-, yeah, yeah, yeah. It鈥檚 really, really hard to describe. It鈥檚 quite small, but basically it has two little things that come up each nostril and it pulls your nostrils apart once it鈥檚 up there. You bend it to get it in, and then when you release and it鈥檚 in the nostrils, it will expand out. So basically it just-

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Sort of like a menstrual cup.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] I鈥檝e never used one of those. They are far too logistically tricky for me to use one of those.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You see, this is a disability issue, isn鈥檛 it?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It is. I鈥檓 telling you. The nozen I could do on my own, unlike the menstrual cup.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It actually does fulfil a need, it鈥檚 not a 鈥� I love this term 鈥� it鈥檚 not a disability dongle?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 No. And I鈥檝e not just done it for bants either, it鈥檚 just I鈥檝e got sleep apnoea, Ems, and I snore like a wild animal, and it is getting a little bit worse as time goes on.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a tough one.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 But what a catch I am, Ems, eh?

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Theme music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 Access All, the 大象传媒鈥檚 disability and mental health podcast. Now this is a very exciting one for us because it鈥檚 our one year anniversary. [Party blower] One whole year of programmes from us. You鈥檙e welcome. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox, and I鈥檓 in London.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, in Edinburgh.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Now I should be clear, this isn鈥檛 a special birthday edition or anything, we have no extra budget. We鈥檙e not even going to the pub later, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Awh. We are, however, interviewing a disabled woman who wanted to lose her virginity so paid a man to help her do it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. For the first time, we can reveal that disabled women also like a bit of rumpy-pumpy. Melanie and Chayse will join us soon to tell their story.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Subscribe to Access All on 大象传媒 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts, and if you think your friends would like what we do, please tell them about us.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 This next item, we are going to be talking about sex and sex workers, and we鈥檙e going to have a really frank, honest chat, which might be a little bit rudey-dudey so if you鈥檝e got small kids you might just want to send them out the room.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Melanie Hawkes accepted that her dream of having a partner one day might never happen. She鈥檚 been a wheelchair user since developing an inflammatory spinal cord condition as a toddler, and for Melanie dating never quite worked out. But three months ago Melanie found a male escort called Chayse, who has been helping her explore her sexuality for the very first time. And it is such a pleasure to welcome both Melanie and Chayse to Access All. Hello guys.

MELANIE-听听听 Hello.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Hello.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 This is a real treat, a real treat to talk to you both, so much to say but let鈥檚 just get cracking on because I need to calm myself down. I鈥檓 going to start with you, Melanie. I was reading, Melanie, this kind of all started, didn鈥檛 it, from a conversation that you had with your support worker, which led you to doing a bit of online research and coming across this whole kind of world.

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Tell me more about that.

MELANIE-听听听 I had COVID in December last year for the first time. The COVID didn鈥檛 really affect me as much as I thought it would, but I slept kind of upright to minimise my coughing at night and developed a really sore, stiff neck from sleeping in a different position. I was having a bath one night with my support worker, we will call her Tracy because she doesn鈥檛 want her real name in the world wide news, and she put me in the bath one night during my week of isolation with COVID and started washing my hair. She had a few extra shampoo bubbles that she massaged into my neck, and that was the first time someone had really touched me intimately like that. When she put me to bed later that night I told her how she made me feel, and she said, 鈥淵ou know there鈥檚 sex workers out there who can do this more often?鈥� and I said, 鈥淣o.鈥� I said, 鈥淗ow do you know there are?鈥� and she said that she used to be one.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Amazing.

MELANIE-听听听 I鈥檇 known this girl crazy for a few years now and she鈥檇 never mentioned it before. We鈥檇 talked about sex. She鈥檚 a polyamorous girl and she has multiple partners, and we鈥檇 always talked about sex in the bedroom as she put me to bed and I got to know her sex life, but mine was pretty much nil. It kind of just opened my eyes to the fact that maybe I could experience this. The next day I worked from home and I couldn鈥檛 get it out of my head, I just could not stop thinking about it, so I waited until after work and I Googled 鈥渕ale sex workers鈥� and got nothing, until I realised they鈥檙e called escorts here, and then up popped a website of independent escorts and Chayse鈥檚 smile and his photo caught my eye and kind of went from there.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 How did you feel when you were looking for an escort? Because we hear about it maybe a bit more from the perspective of a man finding an escort or a sex worker or whatever, not so much from women. Did it feel any different being a woman? How would you know? But I鈥檓 just interested.

MELANIE-听听听 I think it is more acceptable for a man to see a female and go to a brothel. I was surprised that there was actually male escorts on this website, it was for both male, female and trans escorts, this website. I had a look at a few of the male ones in Perth where I live in WA, Western Australia, but some of them didn鈥檛 show their face, and I didn鈥檛 want to contact someone who I couldn鈥檛 see their face on their website. Chayse listed that he did disabled clients, and I really liked his smile, and his rates were more reasonable than some of the others, which kind of shocked me how expensive it is.

That night I told Tracy what I鈥檇 done and she so pleased and proud of me that I鈥檇 taken that step and looked in. For the whole weekend I couldn鈥檛 get it out of my head. Then the Monday afternoon I found myself with a few extra minutes to kill and I looked Chayse up again and sent him an email. He called me within like 10 or 15 minutes and we chatted on the phone and I asked my million questions and told him I鈥檇 think about it. But the more I thought about it, the more I said I鈥檇 have to try it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What were the million questions? I鈥檓 interested.

MELANIE-听听听 Oh, what were they, Chayse? Have you used the hoist before was one of my questions. How hard can it be, it鈥檚 just up and down, was his answer! My place or his? I asked if he had wheelchair access and he said yes.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Logistics.

MELANIE-听听听 My first session was at Chayse鈥檚 house, and I didn鈥檛 quite get the happy ending that I was after but it wasn鈥檛 because of lack of trying. Chayse went to all sorts of lengths to try, but it didn鈥檛 work out my end. But we got on really well.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 What didn鈥檛 work out on your end, Melanie? [Laughs]

MELANIE-听听听 I鈥檓 not going to say! I didn鈥檛 get my happy ending.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Yeah, I think the big 鈥極鈥� is very situational in this kind of field, especially when you haven鈥檛 had one for yourself. This is what a lot of people don鈥檛 understand is that it takes time to find what you enjoy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You mean orgasm?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Yeah.

MELANIE-听听听 Yes.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 I wouldn鈥檛 encourage her to come here the first time expecting to have the big 鈥極鈥�, because having those kind of sexspectations on a first meeting is quite impossible, and also a bad thing to have on your mind.

MELANIE-听听听 It was my first time I鈥檇 been naked in front of a man.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Your situation is a bit different, and unfortunately Melanie鈥檚 never had one. You鈥檝e got to figure out what is going to work for her so she can make it easier in the future.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Melanie, I wanted to come to you as well because I know you鈥檙e very open and honest so I don鈥檛 think you鈥檒l mind me asking. I鈥檓 physically disabled as well and I was single for a very long time, 150 years really, Melanie, but I鈥檇 had sex before. No-one needs to hear this. I鈥檇 had sex before but it had been quite a long time, and then I met my partner and everything. But for me, when we got to that stage, it was the physical things that I was most hung up about. It was am I going to be able to get into the right position? Is this going to absolutely whack me out? Just those kind of things really played on my mind beforehand. When you鈥檙e with someone you love, or you鈥檙e with someone like Chayse who is a total professional, you know pretty quick you don鈥檛 have to worry. But did those things play on your mind beforehand?

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah. Well, that鈥檚 the whole reason I booked Chayse was to explore what works and what doesn鈥檛, what my body鈥檚 capable of and what it鈥檚 not, what I like and what I don鈥檛 like. I didn鈥檛 want to get into bed with or go home with a guy from a bar and find out these things in an awkward vulnerable unsafe manner. I knew by booking Chayse and paying for the service that I would be in control, and we would work together to explore all these different things in the bedroom.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And you guys must have such a good relationship. I guess it鈥檚 a conversation, isn鈥檛 it, as well as-?

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 That must be probably one of the most important parts.

MELANIE-听听听 Although I do like the spontaneity and the surprises that come up with each other.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What did you learn about your own body, the positions and how you move?

MELANIE-听听听 I know that my legs can be unpredictable and fling off the bed at any stage. [Laughs] That kind of hurts.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 They go up, then the go down. I鈥檓 with you there, Melanie.

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah. So now I鈥檝e worked out that they need to be fastened to the bed beforehand, and then there鈥檚 no worry about them flinging off the bed at any moment. I had to see my physio a few times after each session because we got into a bit of trouble with my legs going all sorts of places.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 You know what you鈥檙e doing, Melanie.

MELANIE-听听听 [Laughs] Now I do. After seven sessions now I know what I鈥檓 doing, yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 What do your mates and family think about this?

MELANIE-听听听 They鈥檙e really happy for me. They see how happy it鈥檚 made me. Whenever I have a session with Chayse I鈥檓 always looking forward to it and really excited and can鈥檛 wipe the smile off my face afterwards.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Awh.

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 been really great.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Awh. How does that make you feel, Chayse? Is that why you do it?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 It鈥檚 definitely not why I do it, but it鈥檚 a reason to why I do it. I鈥檓 naturally a giving kind of person, which I think is a really important thing, because if you鈥檙e not a naturally giving person people can feel that energy. That鈥檚 the important thing. And I think who doesn鈥檛 want to help people, and help people explore different things and better other people鈥檚 lives? I have my own form of self-care and self-therapy that we all need, and why I can鈥檛 be there for other people that need that and deserve and want to feel beautiful?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Melanie, it鈥檚 not cheap though, is it?

MELANIE-听听听 No, not at all. Especially when I wanted longer services. I went from two hours the first one, to three hours, and then I jumped to five hours. And then what did we have, eight hours?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 You had a couple of nights together?

MELANIE-听听听 Our last session was 48 hours together.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Wow! What prices are we talking about? What鈥檚 the ball park?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 It鈥檚 in the thousands. But what a lot of people don鈥檛 understand is when you鈥檙e seeing someone for 48 hours, as rewarding as it can be, you鈥檙e not doing anything else you want to do in your life for those two days. Every moment, every action, is being there for them and making that experience about them. As much as I love doing it, it does take a lot of preparation to do, a lot of spending time on myself afterwards, which I think is important, so that I can give that amount of time to someone.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 like a week鈥檚 work, isn鈥檛 it? And it鈥檚 Australian dollars we鈥檙e talking about here when you say thousands.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Yeah.

MELANIE-听听听 What price do you put on that? My confidence is growing heaps. I鈥檓 happier than I鈥檝e ever been. You can鈥檛 put a price on that lifechanging experience.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 I love that, Melanie. Has it also made you think differently about your future, maybe settling down with someone, finding the right fella?

MELANIE-听听听 Definitely. I never thought I would go on dating apps and talk to men online, and now I鈥檓 doing it pretty much daily. I鈥檝e got a date tomorrow and on Monday.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Stop it! You鈥檙e on two dates in a couple of days?

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah. Two different guys. Yeah, got to try it.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 That鈥檚 one thing me and Melanie have been working on from the start is it鈥檚 not just a service just for right now, it鈥檚 a service that we鈥檙e building together to be able to get her out there and dating and having that kind of confidence. I had a meeting with a person that does coaching for dating and stuff so I can work with clients and a dating coach together in creating a plan for them for the future with dating success and sexual confidence. I think it鈥檚 something a lot of people haven鈥檛 seen or know that鈥檚 out there, and I think that鈥檚 important as well.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 great, that accommodation, because life is all about the confidence, isn鈥檛 it?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 What do you do if you鈥檙e married for 25 years and your partner passes away, and you don鈥檛 know the tango of dating nowadays and you haven鈥檛 been intimate with anyone in 30 years besides your partner? Those are real challenges, and this is a kind of service that can help people gain that confidence again within their own self and their body and to move past their partner, and to work with a coach for dating as well to be able to know the ins and outs on how people go about dating more nowadays. Because there is an intergenerational change between what dating was like 30 years ago and there is now.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And Chayse, I was just wondering what the laws are like in Australia when it comes to this kind of work?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know all the technical laws, I鈥檓 not a lawyer. But I did hear recently that they were decriminalising it in other states like Northern Territory, Victoria and Queensland, they鈥檙e announcing that. But no decrim in WA. It is legal for private independent sex workers, but you can鈥檛 hire staff, security, receptionists. There鈥檚 a lot of like grey areas when it comes to support from police against crimes against sex workers by their clients. So we really want to push full decriminalisation of it, which will bring more resources to people in this industry that need it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And it鈥檚 a legit business for you, isn鈥檛 it? This is your business. I presume you do your returns and all your stuff that you have to do, taxes. She says very knowledgeably.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Yeah.

MELANIE-听听听 And Chayse is a very good businessman. I鈥檝e tried contacting other male escorts and they just don鈥檛 get back to me like Chayse does. He鈥檚 a very good businessman.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e good at your admin, Chayse.

MELANIE-听听听 He鈥檚 also very good at his job. But also, if he hadn鈥檛 have called me within that first 15 minutes of my first email, I might have changed my mind and got cold feet.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

MELANIE-听听听 Chayse was right onto it and he was very convincing to come for that first session. It鈥檚 hard not to fall in love with Chayse.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Have either of you ever felt like you were doing something wrong?

CHAYSE-听听听听听 No.

MELANIE-听听听 I do feel a bit funny seeing Chayse so many times, like it鈥檚 hard not to fall in love with Chayse and what he does for me. But I have to remind myself that it is a professional relationship, even though we鈥檙e very romantic together. He was my first. He鈥檚 always going to be my first.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You鈥檒l always remember your first.

MELANIE-听听听 We have such a great communication and relationship now that I just kind of went, 鈥榊ou know what, I鈥檓 just going to keep seeing Chayse.鈥櫶� And no-one else has got back to me so I鈥檓 going to keep seeing Chayse.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Another thing I was thinking as well, Melanie, I think people with all kinds of disabilities would feel this at some point, but for me particularly as someone with a physical disability there鈥檚 that thing about power and about sometimes you can feel, well I can feel a little helpless in certain situations just because I can鈥檛 physically do something. But when you鈥檙e looking at sex and stuff and there鈥檚 power games sometimes at play and all of that kind of stuff, did any of that worry you that you were kind of having to let go really and put all your trust in somebody?

MELANIE-听听听 It was a huge step the first time, I have to admit, just going and putting myself out there and trust seeing this man that I had just walked through the door for. We鈥檇 talked on the phone and we鈥檇 FaceTimed each other so I knew kind of who he was and where he was set up. But when I got out of my chair and my support worker left, it was just the two of us and I had no idea what I was in for. Two hours later we were best of buddies and we knew each other quite well. But yeah, it was that first step. I knew I was out of my depth with sexual knowledge, and I felt completely overwhelmed with the sexpert that was standing in front of me. But then I鈥檓 an expert with disability and Chayse had no idea about some things. We end up laughing at each other鈥檚 ignorance and naivety, and completely ended up level-headed kind of thing by the end of it, and that meant a lot to me to make me feel more comfortable.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 Anyone that is having sex for the first time, or anyone that is being intimate, there鈥檚 always a sense of vulnerabilities. Melanie鈥檚 got a much higher vulnerability in that sense because the lack of being able to move or fight back. That鈥檚 why I take every act I can to create a safe, welcoming space where she鈥檚 in control. That鈥檚 why we鈥檝e done the phone calls, all that kind of stuff, so that I can create that space where she can relax and receive and communicate and have that sense of control. But at the end of the day, nothing鈥檚 ever going to happen if you don鈥檛 have a sense of vulnerability, if you don鈥檛 trust your gut. I applaud her for putting herself in that extreme vulnerability state, but she鈥檚 gained so much from it, and that鈥檚 a great thing.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 How often do you reckon you guys are going to carry on seeing each other? I guess it鈥檚 more a question for you, Melanie.

MELANIE-听听听 My plan was that 48 hour session would be the last because I鈥檇 learnt pretty much everything. But then I鈥檝e had some very disappointing and frustration with the dating apps that I鈥檝e had,听 men that just don鈥檛 get back to me, or say they鈥檙e going to meet me and then they don鈥檛 turn up. I was so disappointed and annoyed with it the other day that I contacted Chayse and booked my eighth session for next week.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Honestly, dating is a nightmare.

MELANIE-听听听 At least Chayse won鈥檛 let me down and he鈥檚 always been reliable, and I can fall back on Chayse at any time. Plus he鈥檚 going away for three weeks and I had to get another visit in before he goes away and get my fix before that happens.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Melanie, what are your hopes for your future?

MELANIE-听听听 To be honest, I鈥檓 looking for a Chayse replacement for free this time. Somebody who loves me and loves what I like, and can replace Chayse and do everything for free. That鈥檚 my ultimate goal. And Chayse knew that from the very beginning, that he would teach me everything I needed and then I would find someone who could do it. Chayse has set the bar very high. I don鈥檛 know if I ever want to live with anyone now because I鈥檝e been on my own for so long, I think it would just get annoying. But if they want to visit and stay a night every now and then, that would be my ideal set-up.

CHAYSE-听听听听听 We鈥檝e had the chats about online dating. It takes time for the best of us to find someone. It鈥檚 not anything to do with who you are and you鈥檝e always got to think that, you can鈥檛 take things personal around online dating, because the most socially attractive beautiful people get rejected too. I get rejected too. We all have bad experiences. It鈥檚 keeping that lovely positive mind that you have open and accepting, and you will find someone. 100%, I absolutely guarantee it.

MELANIE-听听听 Yeah. And if I don鈥檛 have any luck, then Chayse will be the guy I go to for the rest of my life.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well listen, come back on. Because I know you鈥檙e going to find someone, you鈥檙e too cool to not. Come back on and let us know when you do find somebody. And I reckon you and Chayse will probably stay in touch. I鈥檇 love you to. You鈥檙e brilliant. Thank you so much for today.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, how do we follow that, Emma? What a conversation.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 An absolute education.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Brilliant. Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed that.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Loved it. Loved it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Now what I鈥檓 about to talk about is potentially not as sexy, but I did find out something new this week, Nikki.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 What did you find out, Emma Tracey?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, let me tell you. I found out that the Minister for Disabled People, Tom Pursglove, is also responsible for fraud, error and debt for the Department of Work and Pensions.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Hmmm, hmm. Hmmm, hmm.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Some might say that the coming together of these two roles is a bit unfortunate.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Because disabled people have felt like they鈥檝e been seen, as one blogger put it, benefit scrounging scum, so they will have their backs up if the same person is dealing with benefit fraud who is dealing with their benefits.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Because they look to Tom to help come up with ideas on how to support people into work, or support if you can鈥檛 work. Then you鈥檝e got the whole benefit... It鈥檚 just a bit unfortunate, isn鈥檛 it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well it is. And do you know how I found out the information? Because I didn鈥檛 even know he was accountable for fraud in the DWP. But I did see it on a video that came out.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, I saw that. Was it that video tweeted out by the DWP last week where Mr Pursglove attends a dawn raid on the house of a benefit fraud suspect? Now I鈥檓 only slightly giggling as I鈥檓 saying that because it was very much in the style of Taken.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The Liam Neeson film. Listen to it, tell us what you think. Here鈥檚 a clip.

TOM-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Police sirens in the background] We will track you down, we will find you, and we will bring you to justice. I鈥檓 here at dawn to see for myself a joint operation, a raid that鈥檚 being carried out between the DWP Economic and Serious Organised Crime Team and the Metropolitan Police, to make sure that we bring to justice fraudsters who are cheating our benefits system.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 not Liam Neeson, guys. It鈥檚 not Liam Neeson. This is Tom Pursglove. We鈥檝e had him on the show. That was Tom Pursglove.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The Disability Minster, yeah. Disabled people were upset with the first tweet that went out, which didn鈥檛 have much of the context of the fraud raid that they were on so they actually deleted that tweet, which caused even more interest, I think. Then they put out another one with that same video, so they鈥檝e put out two different tweets with this video, but they put more context and more text around the fact that the alleged fraudsters that they were going after had created 15 identities and defrauded the system of 拢800,000 of disability benefit money. They put all that in the tweet the second time because I think people got a bit confused the first time, because the Disability Minister, Tom Pursglove, was front and centre in a video about disability benefit fraud.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. I鈥檇 love to have been part of the storyboarding session for that. [Laughs] 鈥淭om, we need you to channel Liam Neeson. Have you watched Taken, Tom?鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I think he鈥檚 too young even to have watched it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh gosh, don鈥檛 say that, Ems. But in all seriousness, there has been a lot of reaction. Disability Rights UK Chief Exec, Kamran Mallick, told us, 鈥淎s the cost of living crisis continues to impact heavily on disabled people, he should be doing all 鈥� he as in Tom 鈥� should be doing all he can to support those on benefits and ensure it鈥檚 a fair system for all. This video was shocking to see from the DWP, and with the Minister fronting it this language and approach can promote more hatred towards disabled people.鈥� He ended with the word 鈥渦nacceptable鈥�. So, you know, that鈥檚 the side, that is definitely very much the point-of-view from a lot of disability campaigners and disabled people themselves. Whether it鈥檚 something we need to put to Tom and get him on again, Ems?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The DWP told Access All, 鈥淲e make no apology for using our channels to both deter fraudsters and reassure the public that we are using every tool in our armoury to protect taxpayers鈥� money. As is usual, the Minister鈥檚 portfolio also covers other areas, one of which is fraud against the welfare system. This cost the taxpayer 拢8.6bn last year, and it is right that we do all we can to reduce that and ensure money goes to those who need it.鈥� It was definitely a talking point this week.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 It was a talking point, but my goodness, I鈥檓 never going to look at Tom Pursglove again.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 In the same way.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 In the same way, no. I鈥檝e seen his arms. I鈥檝e seen his biceps. He was wearing a flat jacket. So get in touch about this or anything else. You can send us a text or voice message to this WhatsApp number, 0330 123 9480. Don鈥檛 forget to start your message with the word 鈥淎ccess鈥�. Or you can tweet us on @大象传媒AccessAll, and our email is accessall@bbc.co.uk

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, that鈥檚 it for another week. And what a week, 鈥淧hew鈥�, I feel a bit hot. Hot baby!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I haven鈥檛 recovered yet, I鈥檒l be honest. It was brilliant.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Great birthday edition, wasn鈥檛 it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Access All, that鈥檚 us, returns every week on the usual channels, on air and online.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 And you can look out for us on 大象传媒 News site, because every week wonderful Beth who鈥檚 a part of our team, the online ninja, will whack up an article, and she鈥檚 going to be writing one about Melanie and Chayse, so definitely check that out on the site.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And if you鈥檇 had to skip it because you鈥檝e got small kids in the room, you can nip online and have a wee read.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 a good idea.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We get some really great stories from listeners, don鈥檛 we Nikki?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And we have been checking some of those out this week, so do email us because it might be something that we call follow up and bring to the podcast.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, we might be in touch. Until next time though lovely listeners. Goodbye.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Goodbye.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Music

[Trailer for Eurovisioncast]

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, United Kingdom. This is Eurovisioncast.

FEMALE- 听听听听听 Who鈥檚 going to win Eurovision?

FEMALE- 听听听听听 12 points go to: Ukraine! [Cheering]

MALE- 听听听听听听听听听 We aim to make the Ukrainian people and the rest of Europe really proud.

MALE- 听听听听听听听听听 Welcome to Liverpool. [Cheering]

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听 Eurovisioncast.

FEMALE- 听听听听听 The ultimate backstage pass to Eurovision 2023 in Liverpool.

MANS- 听听听听听听听听听 Join Nina, Daniel, Ngunan, and me M氓ns.

FEMALE- 听听听听听 As we bring you all of the news, views and gossip鈥�

MALE- 听听听听听听听听听 From the greatest show on Earth.

MAE- 听听听听听听听听听听听 Hey guys, I鈥檓 Mae Muller, please come and join our Eurovision family.

MALE- 听听听听听听听听听 Oh wow.

FEMALE- 听听听听听 Eurovisioncast.

MALE- 听听听听听听听听听 Listen on 大象传媒 Sounds.