大象传媒

EMMA- Nikki, I was doing the school run this morning and I can鈥檛 tell you how close the school is to my house; there鈥檚 literally one mistake I could possibly make, and I made it. I went down the wrong turn. So, the boys had gone ahead of me and, I don鈥檛 know, it was sunny. I use my shadows to get around a lot, so when it鈥檚 really sunny I find it a little bit more difficult. My cane had something on it so the terrain was a bit different. Anyway, I ended up in someone鈥檚 driveway.聽

NIKKI- No!

EMMA- I鈥檓 saying to the boys, 鈥淏oys, where are you? Come back鈥� and they were like, 鈥淢um, you鈥檙e in someone鈥檚 driveway!鈥� And it was so funny because the older one stood there in disbelief and said, 鈥淵ou鈥檙e in someone鈥檚 driveway!鈥� and the little one was like, 鈥淢um, mum, mum鈥� and I said, 鈥淐ome and get me then鈥� and the little one came and got me while the other one just walked on up to school.聽

NIKKI- Mum, you鈥檙e so embarrassing.聽

EMMA- Yes. I could hear the older one in front of me telling his friend, 鈥淢um just went into someone鈥檚 driveway鈥�.聽

NIKKI- [Laughs]

EMMA- And I was like, 鈥淥h thanks mate, thank you鈥�.聽

NIKKI- Hashtag blind life.

EMMA- Yeah. So, I said to the younger one, 鈥淥h look at the older one who just stood there and laughed, whereas the younger one gets a gold star for coming and getting me鈥�. And he said, 鈥淥h, does that mean I get iPad after school?鈥�

NIKKI- Aw.

MUSIC- Theme music.聽

NIKKI- This is Access All. We are your weekly podcast all about disability and mental health. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I鈥檓 in London.聽

EMMA- And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 in Edinburgh. Later on in this episode I鈥檒l be looking at what the impact of a 41% rise in blue badge theft is having on disabled people and what can be done about it. But first:

NIKKI- [Hums Strictly Come Dancing theme tune] Dancing onto the podcast this week we鈥檝e got a guest that we have been after for forever, it鈥檚 Rose Ayling-Ellis. She is brilliant. We鈥檙e going to be asking her all about her brand new 大象传媒 One documentary, Signs For Change. It all sounds pretty amazing, doesn鈥檛 it? So, keep listening for the next half hour, and remember to subscribe to us on 大象传媒 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.聽

Well, she is a woman of many, many, many talents and we have been dying to get her on the Access All podcast since we launched. So, I鈥檓 delighted to say that today鈥檚 guest is the wonderful Rose Ayling-Ellis. Hello Rose.

ROSE- How good is that?聽

NIKKI- Honestly, Rose, you are always spoken about since we launched. How long have we been going now, Ems? About over a year, haven鈥檛 we?

EMMA- Over a year, and at least every two weeks someone says, 鈥淲hen is Rose Ayling-Ellis coming on?鈥�

NIKKI- Honestly, it鈥檚 more than that.聽

ROSE- Brilliant. What a lovely thing to hear. I鈥檓 here now, you don鈥檛 have to wait anymore.

NIKKI- Oh, it鈥檚 brilliant to have you on. Thank you so much.聽

ROSE- Thank you for having me.聽

NIKKI- We鈥檙e also joined by your interpreter, aren鈥檛 we?

ROSE- Yeah. Sophie is behind the screen so I鈥檓 watching her while talking to you guys.聽

NIKKI- Amazing. Well, it鈥檚 lovely to have you both on. Lovely to meet you too, Sophie. Now, it鈥檚 hard to know where to start with you Rose, because you鈥檝e packed so much in; over the last few months alone you鈥檝e been nominated for Best Actress in a Supporting Role at the Olivier Awards. And you were playing Celia in Shakespeare鈥檚 As You Like It, which sounds amazing and very hard core. I also watched you mentoring the deaf choir who performed at the King鈥檚 Coronation concert. You were brilliant at doing that. And now you鈥檝e got a new documentary coming out about deaf people and discrimination, and that鈥檚 called Signs For Change. How do you do it all?

ROSE- Oh, my agent manager she鈥檚 got my timetable and she adds it all in. Sometimes I get a bit like, what am I doing tomorrow? And I鈥檓 like, oh I鈥檓 doing this tomorrow, I鈥檓 doing that tomorrow. I try to do it week by week, because if I look at it more I would get completely overwhelmed. So, week by week I just take one day at a time. I just love what I鈥檓 doing at the moment so it feels like everything is just so enjoyable.聽

NIKKI- Well, listen, we鈥檙e going to get into your new documentary in a minute. But first, we鈥檝e got to do it, we鈥檝e got to talk Strictly.聽

[Clip]

CLAUDIA- And we can now reveal the Strictly Come Dancing champions 2021 are鈥�Rose and Giovanni! [Cheering and applause]

[End of clip]

NIKKI- How was it? Because I know other people that have gone on Strictly and they say it鈥檚 so all-consuming, for those months you鈥檙e on the show it鈥檚 so intense. What was it like for you the whole experience?聽

ROSE- I love it. I really, really love it. I have such a great time. When we finished Strictly I did not have one week of doing absolutely nothing, and I鈥檇 forgotten what it was like to sit on a sofa and watch telly. It was such a great experience. I learnt so much about myself, mentally and physically, and I learnt how strong my body could be.

NIKKI- Well, going on from Strictly and this huge moment, this dance and all the change that came from that, you鈥檙e now carrying on with that theme, aren鈥檛 you, with this documentary that you have made. So, tell us a little bit about that? It鈥檚 for the 大象传媒 and it鈥檚 called Signs For Change. Did you鈥�? Well, tell us a little bit about it first.聽

ROSE- Basically this documentary is looking at my life, so there are some clips in it from my childhood, which is very emotional to watch, and kind of linking it up to the people I meet and the journey that goes on. And looking at the problems that me and my family experienced 30 years ago are the same problems that people still deal with nowadays, and what has changed and what is different from then. We鈥檙e looking at technology, we鈥檙e looking at the different choices of language and stuff, and the attitudes against sign language. I think that was a big thing for me because with Strictly it became a big trend of everyone wanting to learn sign language and it being seen in such a positive light. But it hasn鈥檛 always been that case, it hadn鈥檛, and it had actually been a struggle. Because sign language is an oppressed language; it had been oppressed for many, many years. And I鈥檓 really excited for people to watch this documentary.聽

I think for a lot of people, a lot of hearing people they never met a deaf person before. The first time they鈥檇 ever met a deaf person would probably be me on Strictly. So, this would be a good way to educate people. And also not just for them but also for parents, for parents who found out their child is deaf they won鈥檛 feel so alone; they have people talking about me. And the other thing is a deaf person presenting a show about deaf people on the 大象传媒, I mean, how can that ever happen?聽

NIKKI- Yeah. And you know you were saying you were going through those clips and you were getting emotional, why were you getting emotional? Was it because things haven鈥檛 changed in all these years? Or was it just going back to that moment in time?聽

ROSE- Well, because when you鈥檙e a child you don鈥檛 know any different; that is your world and that鈥檚 what you鈥檙e in. And I think looking back I realised how much harder it was. And you don鈥檛 realise it until you look back to it. And I鈥檓 sure everybody gets emotional looking at the child picture or the child video of themselves. And also my own character and where I came from.聽

NIKKI- What was hard, Rose?

ROSE- There鈥檚 a moment in the documentary that I did go up to my mother and said, 鈥淚 wish I wasn鈥檛 deaf鈥� and that really shocked me because I don鈥檛 actually remember that. And I was thinking that鈥檚 really sad that a child feels like that, and it鈥檚 not the child鈥檚 fault; it鈥檚 the attitudes of society and environment that made them feel like that. And that made me really emotional.

NIKKI- But if you contrast that as well, because in the opening of our podcast we have a clip of you going, 鈥淚t鈥檚 such a joy to be deaf鈥�, and that change from how you felt when you were younger to now.聽

ROSE- Yes. I had to go on my own journey to get to that point and understanding it more. And I understand it more by meeting more and more deaf people throughout my life. I met a lot of deaf people, and a lot of people would be surprised how much deaf children are on their own; they barely ever meet each other. I think it鈥檚 heart-breaking.聽

NIKKI- Why is that? Is it just because it鈥檚 difficult to integrate in schools if they may be in a mainstream environment? Why?

ROSE- No. I think it鈥檚 because we focus so much on trying to get them to integrate into the hearing society and to fit in, and to fit them. But sometimes we tend to forget 鈥� we鈥檙e only trying to do our best, we obviously give children different things like hearing aid and learning to speak and stuff because we want them to be able to try in this world that is made for hearing people, because we鈥檙e only trying to do the best for people. And in that attitude we try to fit people. But sometimes no matter how hard you try they will always be deaf, they will never be hearing. Okay, we try to fit into society, but we also need the feeling of belonging somewhere. We need to belong to something and have a community that we can relate to. I think all of us as humans that鈥檚 our nature. Take that away and you will never feel like you belong to either world.聽

NIKKI- First and foremost, Rose Ayling-Ellis, you are a banging actor, aren鈥檛 you? Well, before Strictly you were in the largest soap, my PA Libby Quinn is in the gallery now, she鈥檚 obsessed with EastEnders, she knows everything about it when it comes to EastEnders. So, she鈥檚 actually staying in the gallery so she can watch you today. What was that like playing Frankie? That was your character, wasn鈥檛 it? Did you feel like that was a big moment for you as well?聽

ROSE- I think so, yes, because it was really fun to have the opportunity to act every day and go to work and you鈥檙e doing that famous series. It really pushed you to understand how the programme worked, how it filmed, your position. And I realised there鈥檚 so much you learn from it naturally anyway. And that鈥檚 something I will keep on with me forever. And Frankie was a great character. She wasn鈥檛 just a deaf person, she was also feisty. She鈥檇 get violent very quickly in a short amount of time. But she鈥檚 also very kind and very loyal, and I just love her character. And her grandmother is Shirley Carter. I mean, that is a dream come true. I love Shirley Carter in that; she鈥檚 such a great actress. And to be around with them was like being in a theatre all the time. They treat the set like a theatre, it鈥檚 great.聽

NIKKI- After you left you were saying that you sometimes felt a bit frustrated about the way your character was written. How would you have liked Frankie to have been portrayed?聽

ROSE- It鈥檚 not EastEnders鈥檚 fault at all. The frustrating thing is that I didn鈥檛 have anyone deaf writing the script or behind the scenes to sort of look over it. They could write a good story and great. The thing is it鈥檚 great that Frankie isn鈥檛 just a deaf person and the story isn鈥檛 about her being deaf, but you need to balance that; you can鈥檛 forget that she鈥檚 deaf too. And it鈥檚 such a fast pace; it鈥檚 like five months for a script to go on a TV. Five months, which is a really short time.

NIKKI- Sometimes you need just someone with the lived experience to have a look. I know what you mean. It鈥檚 a bit like Liz Carr in Silent Witness.

EMMA- Yeah, she did a lot.

NIKKI- She did a lot, didn鈥檛 she?

ROSE- Oh, she鈥檚 brilliant. Sometimes you need someone behind the scenes because sometimes I鈥檇 turn up on a set and they鈥檇 be like pointed back arguing or something, and I can鈥檛 follow everything that鈥檚 being said. So, little details like that do get missed out. But it was still a great opportunity to do EastEnders; but could have been an opportunity to also slightly educate what our life is like at the same time.聽

EMMA- So much work though, Rose, on top of a very gruelling job, I would imagine.聽

ROSE- Yeah. And that鈥檚 what I keep doing still. I still do that. But I don鈥檛 mind it because I want the end result to be perfect. But sometimes you have to put in extra work if you want it to be perfect. But sometimes I鈥檓 like I just want to turn up and just act, just like another actor would do, and just be good at my role.聽

NIKKI- So, Rose, you have got another drama coming up, haven鈥檛 you, for ITV. It鈥檚 a crime drama.聽

ROSE- Yes.

NIKKI- Can you tell us anything about that?聽

ROSE- Yeah, we probably start filming it next year at the wintertime. It鈥檚 a crime and a thriller, and there鈥檚 lots of problems within it, and I think a lot of people will be surprised by it.

NIKKI- I鈥檓 surprised about this, Code of Silence. Will you come back in and tell us all about it when it鈥檚 due to go out?

ROSE- I have no idea when it鈥檚 going to be released.聽

NIKKI- No, well don鈥檛 worry about Rose. But will you come back in?

EMMA- What we鈥檙e asking is will you please come back?

ROSE- Oh, will I come back when it鈥檚 been released? Yeah, of course, of course I will do.聽

NIKKI- Thank you so much for doing what you do, and thank you so much for coming on the podcast.聽

ROSE- It was lovely to meet you both.聽

MUSIC- Access All.

EMMA- Ages ago you said you were going to a fancy-pants gym. And I want to know whether you wimped out like the rest of us do when saying that we鈥檙e going to go to a gym and never do or whether you actually went and what it was like?聽

NIKKI- I鈥檝e been dying for you to ask me this because I鈥檝e been so excited. I wouldn鈥檛 say fancy-pants; it鈥檚 not really. It鈥檚 a place called VIM Healthcare and I paid for a session. They鈥檙e based in Brighton so it was quite a long journey but, oh my goodness, it was so worth it, Emma. This place is unreal. This was the gym part of the whole thing they do, because they do do a lot of rehabilitation, and a lot of things if you haven鈥檛 got enough money they鈥檝e got lots of things they can do to help. But I had a session in the gym with two experts. Now, this was such a big deal for me because with muscular dystrophy 鈥� I know everyone has their own struggles 鈥� but I鈥檝e had a big hangup about the gym because mine鈥檚 a muscle condition so my muscles will never get stronger. So, I鈥檝e always felt like when I鈥檝e gone somewhere to try and exercise I kind of got the feeling people are like well, why are you bothering, there鈥檚 not much we can do. And I鈥檝e always felt a bit like no one鈥檚 wanted me to be there. I know that sounds a little bit pathetic.聽

EMMA- That鈥檚 lousy.

NIKKI- But there鈥檚 something about my disability. You know, with a spinal injury you can 鈥� it鈥檚 not Top Trumps, you know 鈥� but obviously people with a spinal injury can work out their upper body and all that kind of stuff.聽

EMMA- Or whatever bit of body isn鈥檛 spinally injured, that isn鈥檛 affected by the injury in their spinal cord.

NIKKI- Exactly.

EMMA- But your muscles鈥�

NIKKI- Are all weak, every single part. I don鈥檛 think my facial muscles are weak [laughs], but I think the extremities are supposed to be quite good.聽

EMMA- Your vocal muscles are pretty good.

NIKKI- Oh, I don鈥檛 know whether they are. Not too bad. Not too shabs.聽

EMMA- Not too shabby.

NIKKI- But my arms and stuff, so I really did get that feeling. And I did go to the gym with my mum years ago but I was a lot stronger back then. But it really is one area that鈥檚 intimidated me quite鈥�anyway. So, I went there and I was blown away. I will tell you one thing though, Emma, this will make you laugh. What does old Foxy do for the first time going to a gym in years? Really excited. Dave was there. A bit nervous actually. What do I do?

EMMA- You get the best sportswear you can, you limber up, you do all your stretching, you鈥檙e ready to rock and roll, you鈥檙e ready to smash this thing.聽

NIKKI- No. You don鈥檛, I didn鈥檛 tie my hair up, nor did I wear a bra.

EMMA- [Laughs] So, everything that could wobble about or fling about and annoy you was doing that?聽

NIKKI- It was quite something. I was like, what on earth have I done? I鈥檝e come to a gym, and I鈥檝e got very long hair and it鈥檚 annoying at the best of times, I think my hair actually disables me more than having muscular dystrophy. They鈥檝e got an exoskeleton, okay, an actual exoskeleton.聽

EMMA- That鈥檚 that thing, that walkie thing?聽

NIKKI- Robocop suit. You can stand up and you can exercise standing up. Now, they鈥檝e got a standing frame which I spent so much time on and they helped me do like, it looked like you were skiing because it鈥檚 one of those standing frames where you can ski. There was this reformer machine because exercises and core strength and all that are very important.聽

EMMA- What鈥檚 a reformer machine?聽 聽

NIKKI- Kate Hudson and Goldie Hawn have got them, all the celebs have got them. They鈥檙e like a piece of kit that looks like you can do Pilates on it.聽

EMMA- Is this the thing with the bands, the rubber bands?聽

NIKKI- Yeah. They鈥檝e got like things you can hold onto and so you can lean to one side and it will give you some resistance.聽

EMMA- Okay, but it kind of supports you?聽

NIKKI- It supports you, yeah. Then you had to lean to the side and then you held onto this strap. And normally I鈥檇 just be like, baby left, baby right, I鈥檇 just be flying over. But because I was holding on I could really go for it. oh my goodness it hurt, everywhere hurt, everywhere hurt, but it was so good. And after the whole experience I just felt one, just so happy, I was a bit emotional actually; and two, yeah, even when I think about it now it was just so nice, it was just so nice to stand up. I鈥檝e said this to you before, Emma, and I鈥檝e probably said it on the podcast before, it鈥檚 not like I want to walk again like I used to, it鈥檚 just that standing up and moving helps me feel better sat down. I can get through my day better because I don鈥檛 hurt as much, I don鈥檛 swell up as much.

EMMA- So, you鈥檝e been stretched out?

NIKKI- Yeah. And this kit is too expensive; I can鈥檛 afford it at the moment. What was also lovely is they come up with a little app for it as well, so at the end of it you鈥檝e got your own tailormade plan. And so I鈥檝e been doing the exercises. And then they sent me a whole list of equipment that, as and when I can afford it, I can get. They try and source me the cheapest stuff as well. I am going to get a standing frame when I can afford it. They found me some hand splints that I鈥檝e needed. They鈥檝e told me to get a better splint boot situation. It鈥檚 just amazing. I struggle to articulate it because it was just that amazing.聽

EMMA- No. How much would a standing frame be, even the cheapest one?聽

NIKKI- Well, the one that I ideally could do with that would do the job correctly is around about 5 grand. I can鈥檛 afford that at the moment; I鈥檝e got too much accessibility stuff to pay for when I鈥檓 doing up my bathroom. As we know, it鈥檚 so expensive all this stuff is so expensive. There are cheaper available but you just don鈥檛 know whether it鈥檚 a false economy, whether it鈥檚 going to actually do the job. So, I鈥檓 still researching with that. I always thought, when I did get to stand in the exoskeleton years ago, I really felt quite lucky. I wish everyone that would want to have a go in this would get to have a go. And actually you can now, and that makes me really happy.

EMMA- I mean, this is another day鈥檚 conversation because I was just about to say not everyone would want to go in an exoskeleton and standing frames aren鈥檛 for everybody either.聽

NIKKI- No, they鈥檙e not.聽

EMMA- It鈥檚 hard to stay active when you're disabled, really hard.聽

NIKKI- I want to take you to this place. I鈥檇 like to do a healthcare special. It would be nice, wouldn鈥檛 it Ems, to know if everybody else would like a little healthcare special because we could properly plan that. So, if you would let us know. Get in contact with us on Access All. Email your thoughts to accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can tweet us @大象传媒AccessAll.

MUSIC- Access All with Nikki Fox.

EMMA- Nikki鈥檚 not here for this bit so it鈥檚 just me. You might remember back in March we had the wonderful Sophie Morgan on talking about when her blue badge got stolen.聽

[Clip]

SOPHIE- So, yeah, my car got broken into. They鈥檝e smashed the window on the passenger side.聽

NIKKI- So, your car鈥檚 damaged as well?

SOPHIE- Yeah, car鈥檚 damaged, exactly. It鈥檚 a Motability car and so I鈥檝e got to get that fixed and that鈥檚 going to take some time; I think they said three weeks. And then obviously got to get the badge replaced, that鈥檚 going to take some time as well; I think again another couple of weeks. So, in the meantime it鈥檚, what, taxis and tubes. And as we all know, they鈥檙e either expensive or unreliable, so it鈥檚 not ideal at all.聽

[End of clip]

EMMA- Well, since then the 大象传媒鈥檚 data unit have been investigating the issue. They鈥檝e found that there鈥檚 been a 41% rise in blue badge theft. And they鈥檝e also spoken to disabled people who have been so upset with their car being broken into and with the weeks of waiting for their often specialised vehicle to be fixed and not having transport in the interim that they鈥檝e stopped using their blue badge in new places, even though they really need to. I鈥檓 joined by Mary, who has had her blue badge stolen, and also by Emma Vogelmann from Transport for All, the UK鈥檚 only disabled led group campaigning for better access to transport. Hi both, it鈥檚 absolutely brilliant to have you with us. Thanks for joining us.聽

MARY- Thanks for having us.聽

EMMA V- Pleasure to be here, thanks so much.聽

EMMA- Let鈥檚 start with you, Mary. What happened with your blue badge?

MARY- Unfortunately my blue badge was stolen. I went out with a friend. I went to a restaurant, and outside of the restaurant there were three parking positions, and one of them was a disabled bay. I thought oh, I should be considerate and take up the bay that I can park in, the disabled bay, and leave the non-disabled bays available for others who wouldn鈥檛 be able to park in the disabled bay. And as I was in the restaurant enjoying my meal towards the end of my meal a man tapped me on the shoulder and said, 鈥淚 think I鈥檝e seen somebody break into your vehicle鈥�. Now, I鈥檝e had unfortunate luck and I鈥檝e had a car stolen before off of my driveway. And so because of that I don鈥檛 leave valuables in my car 鈥� or so I thought. He said, 鈥淚鈥檓 telling you I鈥檝e just seen somebody break into this vehicle. They rode up on a moped or motorbike, broke the driver鈥檚 side window and reached their hand in, and then drove off鈥�. And I thought, what on earth could they have taken. So, I went to see the car and it dawned on me it was the blue badge that they had taken. I had no idea that that was considered a valuable.聽

EMMA- And how did you feel when it was taken? What went through your mind?聽

MARY- Initially I was absolutely fuming that somebody would do that, because the very reason I have a blue badge is because I have mobility issues, and so without that blue badge now I am unable to park anywhere. I called the police and I was given a crime reference number, and I was told if I get stopped on my journey home by the police for driving with a broken window I can give them that crime reference number. And I was informed that they wouldn鈥檛 investigate the theft of the blue badge.聽

EMMA- And did they give any reason for not investigating it?

MARY- No, they didn鈥檛 actually. They just said that鈥檚 not the way they deal with blue badge theft. They advised that they鈥檝e given me the crime reference number so if I get stopped that should be fine. And then it鈥檚 upon me to then register the blue badge as stolen so that they can block it. But the blocking is a redundant exercise because the blue badge has my picture at the back, so if you are using the blue badge and an enforcement officer is around at that time that you put the blue badge out the enforcement officer could potentially ask a person, let me see the badge and ensure it aligns with the person. But oftentimes when you park there aren鈥檛 enforcement officers standing there.聽

EMMA- So, you think even though a badge might be blocked it will still be used by someone?聽

MARY- Yes, 100% certainly, definitely.聽

EMMA- What was the impact on you in the time after you got your blue badge stolen in terms of emotional, in terms of what you could do, in terms of the idea of someone having your picture on their dashboard as well?

MARY- So, the picture side of things, I guess I鈥檒l go backwards, the picture side of things was really scary. It鈥檚 similar to when a house has been burgled, the person has been in your house and they鈥檝e seen your picture everywhere, but you don鈥檛 know who the person is. They could be somebody standing right next to you and they鈥檝e got this picture of you, and you鈥檙e unaware. They know what they鈥檝e done to you but you have no idea who the person is. So, it is scary in that sense. Physically it was draining dealing with getting the car fixed. And the way that the person had broken the window meant that it actually required quite specialised repair work, and so it took quite some time, a number of weeks, which was highly stressful. It impacted my ability to work, my ability to get to and from work.聽

EMMA- We鈥檝e heard from people who鈥檝e been afraid to display their blue badge, the new one, after one has been stolen before; are you one of those people?聽

MARY- Definitely. Now I think twice, I think thrice about using my blue badge, particularly if I鈥檓 going to a new area.聽

EMMA- Yeah. Now coming to you, Emma, you鈥檝e been listening to Mary鈥檚 story; and we know that 1,484 badges were stolen in England in the year up to March 2022. That was a 41% rise on the previous year. That鈥檚 according to figures from the Department of Transport. We know why they鈥檙e stolen or we know some of the reasons: we know they鈥檙e stolen to sell on the black market; we know they鈥檙e stolen to get out of congestion charges, particularly in London. But Emma, what can be done to stop these thefts?聽

EMMA V- Ultimately we really need a commitment from law enforcement to take this as a serious issue. Particularly when a car is broken into and it shouldn鈥檛 be that a disabled person needs to view their badge as a valuable, but unfortunately it now is, as you mentioned, with it being sold illegally. So, I think we really need a commitment from law enforcement to take this seriously.聽

EMMA- So, in terms of investigating thefts or in terms of stopping them in the first place or both?聽

EMMA V- I would say both because I think once the blue badge is stolen it is very difficult to track its usage.聽

EMMA- It鈥檚 hard when it鈥檚 all kind of administrated by different councils. Apparently most of the prosecutions were dealt with by four councils out of all the councils. So, it sounds like some councils are caring about it more than others. Mary, what鈥檚 your ideal scenario? What do you think needs to happen with blue badges to cut down on things like what happened to you?聽

MARY- So, I think the current blue badge system is quite archaic. I think the fact that we have these physical plastic cards that are easily stolen, I think if we cast our minds back a few years or decades ago, I can鈥檛 remember how far back it was now, we used to have to display our road tax discs in our windscreens and suddenly people realised that this was inefficient, and so now cars have road tax without those discs displayed and where a car is driving on the road without road tax that is easily detectable by law enforcement and is picked up. I don鈥檛 understand why in 2023 we can鈥檛 have something similar for blue badges.

EMMA- Emma, some London boroughs have companion passes which are electronic and work alongside the blue badge so that you don鈥檛 have to have it displayed. Why is this not happening all across the UK? Why is it not a national scheme?

EMMA V- It鈥檚 not accessible to all disabled people. And I know that the current blue badge processing system is not perfect either; but relying on technology isn鈥檛 potentially the answer. And I think that鈥檚 because so many disabled people either don鈥檛 have access to the internet all together or have huge accessibility barriers. And another reason that it鈥檚 difficult to attach a blue badge to a specific vehicle for example is for disabled people who don鈥檛 use the only one vehicle. Lots of disabled people will rely on being transported in different carers鈥� cars, different friends鈥� and families鈥� cars, and with them as a passenger. So, the ability to move that blue badge from vehicle to vehicle is really important. So, I think technology can certainly play role in this. I don鈥檛 think that that current trial for electronic blue badges is the right way to do it, and that trial wouldn鈥檛 support it being rolled out nationally as it currently is.聽

EMMA- The British Parking Association, the BPA, which represents the UK鈥檚 parking and mobility sector said, 鈥榃hile traffic wardens can report the misuse of a badge, the process of recovering it is more difficult. The vehicle鈥檚 owner must be identified or present for a badge to be seized鈥�. We also contacted the Department for transport about this issue and they said, 鈥榃e鈥檙e deeply concerned by anyone exploiting the blue badge scheme, a vital resource helping many people travel with confidence. Whilst theft is a police matter, we work closely with local authorities to help them tackle fraud and misuse鈥�.聽

Emma and Mary thank you so much for joining me. Now, I do want to hear from you on this. Have you had your blue badge stolen? Are you afraid to display your blue badge? What should be done to prevent blue badge thefts? Get in touch. you can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. You can tweet us @大象传媒AccessAll. Or you can send us a WhatsApp, either voice mail or text, and make sure you put Access at the start. And our number is 0330 123 9480.

NIKKI- Hey, that was a proper great programme that, Ems.聽

EMMA- So brilliant to speak to Rose.

NIKKI- I mean, she鈥檚 just beautiful.聽

EMMA- Friend of the programme now.聽

NIKKI- I know it sounds a bit luvvie, but I鈥檒l tell you honestly listeners, she鈥檚 lovely.

EMMA- Now, tell your friends that you listen to Access All. That is your job for this week, okay?

NIKKI- Yes, it鈥檚 your only job. because I鈥檓 off on holidays and I鈥檓 back in July, Em. It sounds like such a long time, doesn鈥檛 it?聽

EMMA- You鈥檙e not going to be away for long but I will miss you.聽

NIKKI- You are going to be on your tod for the next couple of weeks.聽

EMMA- Yeah. So, you can join me. I鈥檒l be with my guests, Stevie Wonder, Lady Gaga and Michael J Fox, live from our Hawaii studios, broadcast at the same time on 大象传媒 One.

NIKKI- Oh stop it! You鈥檙e haven鈥檛 really. If you get Michael J I鈥檓 flying back. Oh no, I鈥檓 not even flying, am I, I鈥檓 getting the ferry.聽

EMMA- You鈥檒l be a while [laughs].聽

NIKKI- [Singing] I don鈥檛 care how you get here, just get here鈥�

EMMA- Get here in the end.聽

NIKKI- lg okay, we should probably say goodbye now, shouldn鈥檛 we, to everyone. Goodbye. 聽

EMMA- Bye.聽

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