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BONUS EP 9

[00:00:00] ED: Before you listen to this episode of the Traitors Uncloaked, please be warned that there is some naughty words that may be unsuitable for younger ears ´óÏó´«Ã½ Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. ED: Hello and welcome to this little extra bit, especially for you are loyal ´óÏó´«Ã½ sounds. Listeners alongside me in the studio we still have Nick Grimshaw, Danielle Harold.

And we have Zach and Jasmine, and now joining us from series one, it's Faithful Ivan! IVAN: Hello! ED: Thank you guys for sticking around, and Ivan, thanks so much for joining us. Now, you've been tracking everything that happens, I think, on every iteration of The Traitors globally. IVAN: Yeah. ED: You're an obsessive, is that fair?

IVAN: Oh, I mean, you're saying that, not me. But yeah, I mean, I do. I do love the show. Maybe I'll watch it angrily to see who did better than me and find a way for them not to deserve it. Perhaps that's what today is, catharsis. ED: This is the thing about you run games. You work within these sorts of games, really. IVAN: So I have no excuse.

ED: But we wanted to [00:01:00] get you in for a little roundup of this series. You know, we've got the finale tomorrow, of course, but we wanted to hear some of your thoughts on how they've been playing the game. Um, so I think you've prepared for us, haven't you? Your top three strategic moves and top three massive tactical blunders.

IVAN: Yeah, I want to run these past you. I want your opinions on this. ED: Yes, please. IVAN: So should we start with the blunders? JASMINE: If I'm in these blunders

ZACH: That chair is fragile. I could toss it over very easily. IVAN: And why not? Um, okay. So what I've done, I've tried to judge this by the effect that each one has had. All right. So how big an impact did it have in the game? So I've got a top three. Um, and so my third worst best strategic blunder would have to be the elusive fiasco, right?

So you've got Andrew who definitely does say to Ross like, oh, Harry's being a bit elusive. Ross decides to go and feed this back to Harry. And you're thinking, okay, who's he going to side with? Who are the two who are going to come out of this smelling of roses? And then when you [00:02:00] see it go down, and Andrew and Harry fully nope him at the round table, it is just unbelievable.

In a way, it's one of the most terrible tactical blunders because he just doesn't see it coming. ED: No. IVAN: But the reason why it's only number three on the list for me is because he was already going home, right? ED: I think so. I think the chances were there and they were waiting to leap on anything that he said.

But this elusive thing was perfect for them. And how quickly Andrew just went, I didn't say that. It was incredible. JASMINE: I felt so, sorry in that moment because he was speaking the truth and it's like, yes, you're a traitor, but like, traitor, you didn't lie. IVAN: But what's amazing is I believed Andrew as he was saying it.

I don't know, something about the way he said it, like, oh, maybe I was wrong. Maybe I didn't, I don't even know what elusive means. ZACH: I mean, I, to be fair, I never heard him say the word elusive. So is it? ED: But I'll tell you when I would have, my suspicions would have been raised was when he said, I, I never used the word elusive.

I don't even, what is it? Exclusive? I've never heard that word. And then, and then he said, and then he said, I don't even think you've been elusive. So you do know what I mean. JASMINE: But to be fair, the word [00:03:00] elusive is very off brand for Andrew. ED: Yeah, and he knows that. He absolutely has an idea of how people perceive him.

So it was very clever from Andrew. IVAN: He does the same lie a few episodes before where he says what's recruitment? Like what does that mean recruitment? ED: That was too far that We think they've recruited. He's like, what's that mean?

ED: What's your next tactical blunder IVAN: number two more impact more clout because it did fully lead to someone being banished It's got to be Brian's implosion at the round table. He was one of many. ZACH: I think it's too sad to bring up. NICK: That was like, I, we need a, we need Brian Uncloaked as a separate podcast. We need to know everything about that.

IVAN: I still feel so sorry for him because it feels like, yeah, he was, he was under suspicion, but as were about seven people. Your series are not scared of just like coming out with names. And so he was just one of them, but he was really hurt by it. It was the same day when the whole sheep thing had come out and he clearly felt really attacked.

And so he went, go on then, everyone tell me. And you remember in [00:04:00] my series, Aaron did the same thing. So it was something to do with the delivery or the timing or the way he like said, but you're all thinking Ammon, right? And it was just too much. And actually, you were the one, Jasmine, who was like. This feels dodged.

ZACH: What is happening? You are on my list. JASMINE: Me and my big fat mouth. I think it's just because it was so early on and none of us had really felt the heat of your name coming up at the round table because when it comes up it is so like, it is so crazy and if we had all felt that and being able to look at Brian and be like, Oh, okay, his name's just come up and he's just really scared about it because I've been in that position.

I think it would have been, I think I would have had a bit more sympathy. But yeah, Brian, I did feel really, really bad about, um, love him. ZACH: I felt like, um, Brian, I've said this to him. I think he did me a bit of a solid because I think he was the kind of experiment of voting out someone who's nervous and jittery and like anxious.

And he kind of took the, [00:05:00] I'm sure he didn't mean to, but I felt like I was on the chopping block at that round table. Um, and him taking the kind of hit for us anxious people, it kind of felt great or not great, but it kind of, it kind of shielded me from any future criticism for that subject, because it basically just because you're nervous doesn't mean you're a, you're a traitor or vice versa.

Um, So, yeah, I feel like I would not have been in the show for as long as I was if we didn't have that Brian meltdown in episode 3. JASMINE: Yeah, I did it for Zach. ED: Brian, I hate to bring it up again, but Brian was a sacrificial lamb. No, no, okay. Uh, and what is your top tactical blunder? IVAN: Most impactful tactical blunder by All accounts was Paul and Ash deciding to go into the dungeon.

ED: Yeah, huge. IVAN: It led to both their banishments. There's no question about that. Ash directly and Paul. I mean, we heard Molly say in episode eight, Oh, this is because he went in the dungeon. None of that added up from the second he went in the dungeon. You were onto him. I think you were onto him. I know Evie was.

I'm pretty sure that, um, Jazz certainly was. There was enough people from then thinking he wasn't there and he sat on the popularity thing [00:06:00] and that was a good, a good call, but it didn't work. So for me, that's it. That's the biggest blunder in the whole show. ED: It's when he started to get a bit. Big for his boots.

JASMINE: Yeah. ED: When he was like, I'm gonna put myself out there. I feel so safe where I am, that I think there's gonna be no, no comeback for any of this. IVAN: It's, it's ZACH: obviously gift. A gift for the faithful. IVAN: Yeah. I think if you think of it short term, it really works what he did. 'cause he knew Ash would go home, so he was like, great, Ash goes home, one person gets Spanish, not me, and then I'm, I'm free.

That's fine. People will, you know, continue to think that's, but. doesn't work like that because everyone's under suspicion and don't I know it. Our equivalent of that in my series was the trial thing and none of us got out of that alive. Alex eventually tried to recruit her, but then she went home anyway.

John and I went home really quickly after that. It just, you're under suspicion. People get it in their head that it could be you and they can't get it out of their head again. It was never going to work. ED: No. The traitor's unclothed. IVAN: In at number three is going to be Paul's downfall, right? Um, this was a kind of, this is a shared accolade between I think Harry And you, Zach.

Um, JASMINE: Whoop! Shout out.  Yeah, there you go, mate. IVAN: There [00:07:00] were some amazing moments when Harry just whispers to you like, that's two traitors arguing, isn't it? And you're like, yeah, it is. And the funny thing about it is, you're both right, despite the fact that he's lying to you in a different way. The way that you piece it together and he feeds you the bits you need to know is amazing to watch.

ZACH: Yeah, it's props to Harry, I guess. But yeah, it's seeing that Miles and Paul bickering in the roundtable. It was it was too obvious. JASMINE: It felt so real, didn't it? ´Ü´¡°ä±á:Ìý It was incredible. Yeah, it's because I guess because it's such compelling arguments, despite the fact they were both traitors, because they both knew they were traitors.

Yeah, they just they had like, you know, really persuasive dialogue with one another. And I guess, yeah, it was just, it was too much to be just a coincidental argument. JASMINE: There's something about seeing two traitors argue with each other that just, it's hard, you can't articulate it, but there's just a switch.

Like, it happened with Paul and Miles, and it also happened with Elusive Gate, that Andrew and Ross, when, when, um, you saw that Andrew was lying to Ross, like, There was [00:08:00] such a switch of, like, genuine anger and, like, ZACH: Just, like, panic as well. Yeah. It's like, you know, this is your team. JASMINE: Yeah, exactly. ZACH: They ran me under the bus.

ED: And they almost know what's happening in that moment. So it's not confusion, why have I been called out, it's Oh, the game's on now. JASMINE: Yeah. ED: It's almost like two lawyers arguing with each other. IVAN: And it always feels so personal. Yeah. And as you say, they always hit their beats. They have, they have gathered all the information about, they're only watching each other.

They don't care about the faithful. They're just hitting all those beats. It was amazing to see. But I think also it was just like, it was a grabbing power. Harry grabbed it, he was like, Okay, well, uh, Paul thinks of me as a little kid. I'm gonna take over, grab the entire series by the reins. And that was the moment where he did.

So I feel like it was, It was interesting for Harry to see him ascend to that point. And then he actually, like, got elected president of the house. Like, it was, it was amazing! They literally were like, Oh, but Harry for president! Like, what's that all about? ED: Um, what's your next Uh, best play and is it Harry again?

IVAN: No, it's not. It's Diane dragging Miles to hell. So what I love about this move is, you know, [00:09:00] you hear her whispering during that incredibly camp mission, which I just adored it. Um, if I die, it's Miles. If you die, Paul. It's Jazz. And that was enough, right? She does die. And kind of in her memory as her legacy, you guys get her.

And what I find really powerful about this is she's able to get rid of Miles without even being at the round table. JASMINE: Yeah. ZACH: Right. And it kind of reminded, but so I don't know how, you know, how great was my exit. But like, I made sure when I left that show that I take down Tom with all I wanted out of those last few words. It’s just take Tom down too.

I love the guy, by the way, he's great, but JASMINE: Shoutout Tom NICK: I love Tom ZACH: We all felt really personally attacked by Diane's death JASMINE: Yeah Especially Ross, oh my god. Burying your mum. ZACH:  Yeah, it felt like, it felt like they'd taken like The matron from the group is JASMINE: Yeah, like mom. ZACH: Yeah. So like, ED: can I just say everyone who saw that went, oh my God.

Imagine having to fake bury your mum on a show and keep it quiet that [00:10:00] she's your mum. We've interviewed both of 'em and they're both going, yeah, that was fine. They're so cold about the whole thing. They're like, yeah, it had to be done. ZACH: Just cold people. JASMINE: It's just traitors at the end of the day, isn't it, of his family.

DANIELLE: Yeah, the coffins! NICK: We thought they were quite chic. Ah, yeah. ZACH: Do you know what? They're very basic. DANIELLE: Yeah, they're quite nice ones. Yeah. NICK: We quite like the rustic feel, don't we? ED: I don't think we should have had you two watching over us. NICK: Yeah, we've ordered them. IVAN: There were three of those, right? Can I have one? ED: Ivan, you're top.

play of the whole series. IVAN: By sheer impact alone, and by ingenuity as well, the only thing I can put at the top of this list is Harry's shield ploy, right? There's so many facets to this, so many elements that make it great, but first of all, he was the first person in the entire series to keep the shield private, which we all know is a much better strategy, because it makes the traitors run scared.

ED: There was less opportunity to keep it quiet this time, I think. You had to be very sneaky, so Harry was incredibly sneaky. I think you won a shield at one point, and Claudia said who won the shield and you had to put your hand or she said Jasmine won it. JASMINE: Yeah, exactly. I actually kind of, [00:11:00] well, everyone saw me get the shield because it was like bright and glowing.

Yeah. And it was just like, but I do think that this year, because the way that you get the shields are in this challenge and everyone is around you, unless you are just so happen to be, get the shield when no one sees you, and then you have the opportunity to keep it to yourself. You can't really keep it to yourself because The odds are someone's seen you.

ED: Yeah. JASMINE: And the gig is up. But I do agree. I think that, um, it definitely adds, uh, something to the game when no one knows who the shields are, but who's got the shields because the traitors, yeah, everyone's scared. ED: But it makes it so if you can get the shield without anyone seeing, even though it's harder this series, you can see what an impact it has.

IVAN: Yeah, it's amazing. And at first I was saying, Harry, why are you doing this? Because he should, if anything, be teaching the faithfuls to keep it in the open because it benefits the traitors if they know who's got the shield. But then you see the ploy. First of all, he can use the recruitment, hide it. with the shield.

But then because Molly and who else was it? Was it? Was it you, Zach? And it was jazz had known about the shield. And then Andrew was like, Oh, I do too. That meant that there was just three of you left. And one by [00:12:00] one. Well, we don't know about Evie yet, but it directly led to two banishments. Yeah. And potentially a third of Evie goes for that reason as well.

JASMINE: Yeah. IVAN: With that one move, you recruited. Banished three, exonerated himself. NICK: Good move. ED: So good. JASMINE: It actually pains me to say, but yeah, it's a great point. ZACH: Gives me bloody nightmares.

ED: Sad to end it on Zach mumbling, it gives me nightmares. Thank you so much Ivan, that was absolutely fantastic. Round of applause for Ivan please. Now we've heard from loads of series one guests plus our banished and murdered players from series two and if you've been listening and thinking this all sounds like a splendidly good time then you've only got until February the 11th to apply to be on the next series of the traitors all you need to do is go to bbc.co.uk forward slash shows and tours and click on the take part page.

ED: Thank you to Nick, Danielle, Zach, Jasmine, and Ivan for being fabulous guests. JASMINE: Thanks for having us. ED: And thank you all for listening at home. We've only got one more of these to go, [00:13:00] so make sure you're with us tomorrow night on ´óÏó´«Ã½ Sounds following the final episode of Traitors Series 2.

It's gonna be a good one. Until then, goodbye!

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