大象传媒

16th July 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 113

Presented by Emma Tracey聽

EMMA- What a brilliant weekend it was for British sport, right?聽

MALE- [Tennis playing and cheers] Game, set and match Hewett, by two sets to love: 6-2, 6-3. The starter line for the British number one and home hero, Alfie Hewett. He wins his first Wimbledon wheelchair singles title, and with it completes the historic career singles Grand Slam.

EMMA- That was Britain鈥檚 Alfie Hewett there winning the men鈥檚 wheelchair tennis singles final at Wimbledon at the weekend. He went on to win the doubles final with Gordon Reid on the same day. Alfie is only the second male player of all time to win every singles and every doubles title in every wheelchair tennis grand slam.聽

FEMALE- Is this the best day of your illustrious tennis career?

ALFIE- It鈥檚 been obviously a memorable day. Definitely the best day of my life [cheering and applause]. Today is the stuff of dreams really and it was very emotional earlier to clinch my first singles but, you know, I wanted to come back obviously with GO and retain the title. And I鈥檓 just very proud that we can do that.聽

EMMA- We鈥檙e really excited here on Access All because Alfie Hewett himself is going to be coming to talk to us in the next few weeks. On with the show.聽

MUSIC- Theme music.聽

EMMA- I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and this is Access All, the 大象传媒鈥檚 weekly disability and mental health podcast. But we鈥檙e really a podcast about people and their stories, so if you love the sound of that stick with us, you are so welcome. This time we鈥檒l be talking to comedian Variety D. And how does Australia deal with disabled migrants? 大象传媒 correspondent Katie Watson is here to tell us more.聽

It鈥檚 the land of the fair go, but some people applying for Australian visas are finding that their applications are being rejected because they or a family member are disabled. Australia is one of the few countries which routinely rejects visa applications on the basis of somebody鈥檚 medical needs; specifically if the cost of care would exceed AUD 86,000 or 拢45,000 over 10 years. There is a campaign to get this changed though. 大象传媒 Australia correspondent Katie Watson has just moved down under with her family and she鈥檚 got a son with Down鈥檚 Syndrome. Katie hi, thank you for joining us.聽

KATIE- Hello, hi, nice to be here.聽

EMMA- Also here is Jonathon Wales. Now, Jonathon planned to move over to Perth in Australia for a job in the police force because Western Australia has a big shortage of police officers. His visa was rejected because his son is autistic. Hi Jonathon, you鈥檙e really welcome.聽

JONATHON- Hi there.聽

EMMA- Jonathon, we鈥檙e going to come back to you, but I鈥檓 going to start with you Katie. So, you鈥檝e been working on this story about disabled migrants in Australia and those trying to move for quite a while. Tell us the situation there at the moment.聽

KATIE- I found out about it because I was applying for a visa and I was told by a migration agent that there would be some stumbling blocks if I wanted to apply for a permanent visa in Australia; which I didn鈥檛 have any intention of, I鈥檓 here on a posting. But one of those stumbling blocks was the fact that Otis, who is three, has Down鈥檚 Syndrome. And basically Australia looks at migrants as costs, and fair enough, every country has a right to say who they want to come in and how much, you know, whether they can afford those migrants to come in. But what it does it kind of has this blanket approach which it looks at, as you鈥檝e mentioned, an amount which is AUD 86,000. Now it鈥檚 actually just gone up quite considerably. Up until last month it was, like, nearly half that. And effectively it looks at the cost of what a typical Australian would need or access, so somebody with Down鈥檚 Syndrome what they would need to be supported, and if that exceeds then you fail what鈥檚 called a health requirement. Now, at that point the government says you aren鈥檛 necessarily rejected from a visa. Depending on the visa you can apply for a waiver, a health waiver and see whether they鈥檇 waive that cost, or you can appeal, you can go to the minister on compassionate grounds. But that鈥檚 not all visas, and especially if you aren鈥檛 even in Australia then it鈥檚 pretty much the end of the road if you fail the health requirement. It鈥檚 very difficult to be able to argue, to be able to come into Australia if you are seen as basically too expensive.聽

But it鈥檚 worth also saying that it鈥檚 too expensive depending on, you know, if you had private health insurance or if you decided to pay for it, or if your child doesn鈥檛 actually have any additional therapies or extra support that doesn鈥檛 matter. They look at this typical Australian what they would be able to access and that鈥檚 how they look at the cost.聽

EMMA- It does sound very complicated. And what鈥檚 also interesting is that the Migration Act is exempt from Australia鈥檚 Disability Discrimination Act, is that right?聽

KATIE- That is right and that鈥檚 something that campaigners are really trying to argue. And in fact the UN in 2019 flagged Australia鈥檚 migration policies as potentially discriminating against those who have got disabilities, those who have chronic health conditions and said these things needs to be addressed.聽

EMMA- Jonathon let me come to you. You鈥檙e a police officer in Scotland and you had planned to move with your family to Australia. And that was a dream of yours, wasn鈥檛 it?聽

JONATHON- My wife and I spent a year in Australia when we were younger, and we鈥檝e returned on holiday numerous times since then. We鈥檝e got family and a good network of friends in Perth. Every so often the police seem to do an international recruitment drive where they鈥檒l look to a country like the UK to try and boost their own numbers with experienced officers.聽

EMMA- And what happened when you did apply?聽

JONATHON- I鈥檝e got three children, our middle child, Freddie, he鈥檚 five years old and he was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder about three years ago now, so he was just turned three when he was diagnosed. Now, I had never considered that that diagnosis would have any impact on our prospects of emigrating to Australia. It鈥檚 not something that even our family and friends in Australia had ever highlighted to me that they thought it may be an issue.聽

EMMA- But it did?

JONATHON- It certainly did. So, it鈥檚 quite a robust recruitment process, a lot of expense as well to go through to obtain the offer of employment, which eventually I did. So, I went right through the recruitment process, was offered the position at the end of that, even so far as I got my station where I was going to be based in Perth. But during that sort of process I started to become aware of wee snippets of people who had experienced similar issues with visas, with children or family members with disabilities, so I鈥檇 started to try and find out what I could from sources online and previous stories that had been covered. When I started to see that there may be an issue we employed the services of an immigration based in Perth to really assess our prospect of success with an application. They said to me there鈥檚 no prospect of success with our visa application, and at that point it was not financially viable for us to submit an application based on that and pay all that money when we had no prospect of getting it.聽

EMMA- Do you still want to go to Australia and does your wife still want to go to Australia? How does she feel about what鈥檚 happened and what the process has been like?聽

JONATHON- I suppose yes, it鈥檚 been a dream, I would love to go to Australia. However, it does change the way we think about the country because it feels like they鈥檝e told us that your son鈥檚 not good enough to come here. That鈥檚 how it feels, you know, they have basically written him off. Now, he may have his challenges but I鈥檝e got absolutely no doubt that he can achieve what he wants to in life, and I don鈥檛 feel it鈥檚 fair that they can say that especially to children, to say that you鈥檒l certainly be a burden to us and you鈥檙e not going to bring anything to society. Whereas I would be working full time contributing, my wife would be working as well contributing. We鈥檝e got two other children who would I鈥檓 sure contribute hugely to Australia and to society there. So, it felt really, really unfair. And certainly I think my wife might be a bit more bitter, if that鈥檚 that correct term to use, about the whole thing and she is almost like 鈥榳ell, why would we go there now if that鈥檚 their attitude?鈥�

EMMA- Well, one disabled adult who did make it down under was Tim Rushby-Smith whose wife and children are from Australia. But he did have to jump through lots of hoops before he could get there. Here鈥檚 his voice note:

TIM- I was 45 when I moved to Australia with my wife and two kids in 2013. I鈥檓 paraplegic and a wheelchair user, and I was working as a freelance journalist at the time of the move. We had a migration agent who explained to us that we would go through the process of applying for my residency and that I would be rejected on medical grounds because of my paraplegia. However, she explained that she would lodge an appeal at the same time as the original application, so I still had to go through a medical examination and have my medical records scrutinised. The appeal was made on the basis that the decision would negatively impact on other Australian citizens. That鈥檚 to say my wife being an Australian citizen and both my children having dual nationality, if they were to reject my application for residency they would effectively be dividing the family up. And so that was the basis by which I was successful in the application. So, I moved in 2013 and I got Australian citizenship myself about four years ago now and I鈥檓 very happy over here.聽

EMMA- Katie, what鈥檚 your reaction to everything you鈥檝e heard?聽

KATIE- When I filled out a form for my visa I had to answer a question for each of my children, and one of the questions was, 鈥楢re you physically or intellectually disabled which will impede you from being independent or holding down a full-time job?鈥�. I wrote in it no, this was for Otis, I said, 鈥楴o, he has Down鈥檚 Syndrome which means he has an intellectual disability. That does not mean that he will not be independent or hold a full-time job. What will impede him from that is the fact that he is two. And none of my other typical children will be able to do that either鈥�. But then the migration agent said, 鈥榊ou can鈥檛 do that鈥� [laughs].

EMMA- Right.聽

KATIE- 鈥楤asically you won鈥檛 get a visa if you do that.鈥� And I guess for me, it鈥檚 similar to what Jonathon said, I felt completely unable to advocate for my child. I absolutely expect Otis to be independent. He will not be living with us when he鈥檚 in his 20s. I don鈥檛 want him to be living with us [laughter]. He absolutely will have his own life.聽

EMMA- And what鈥檚 the Australian government saying about all of this?聽

KATIE- So, they held a review and there have been submissions to this review. Now, we don鈥檛 know what鈥檚 going to be in that review. One of the campaigners I spoke to is really pushing for is that they don鈥檛 include education support, because that鈥檚 one of the things that probably takes out the likes of Jonathon鈥檚 son or my son if I was wanting to move permanently. As soon as you factor in needing support in education services that costs much more and will go over that threshold that we鈥檝e been talking about. And what they鈥檙e arguing is that you shouldn鈥檛 include education in it. At the end of the day education is a tool that will help people integrate and be part of society, so you shouldn鈥檛 see that as a cost; that should be a benefit to Australian society.聽

EMMA- So, separate education from the health aspect?

KATIE- Absolutely, exactly.聽

EMMA- So, this review is due to come out really soon. Any other legislation do you think might change?聽

KATIE- Unfortunately apparently the Migration Act being exempt from the Discrimination Act, according to a migration lawyer who I was speaking to said that鈥檚 probably unlikely to come out of the review because I think that needs to go through the Attorney General. So, that鈥檚 something that probably won鈥檛 be changed any time soon. But I think it鈥檚 still the model of seeing the overall cost, seeing anybody as a cost to society as opposed to looking at the overall contributions and what contributions people make. I think that model will be a hard one to shift in Australia, but it鈥檒l be interesting to see whether indeed that coming out of this review they will shake this system up, because certainly they鈥檝e been asked and told by lots of people that maybe they need to relook at it.聽

EMMA- All right, well we鈥檒l keep an eye on this story and we鈥檒l let our listeners know the results of that review when they come out. Katie Watson, the 大象传媒鈥檚 Australia correspondent, and Jonathon Wales, police officer in Scotland, thank you so much for joining me.聽

JONATHON- Thank you.聽

KATIE- Thank you.聽

EMMA- If you have a story that you want to share with us please do get in touch in the usual ways. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can find us on social media @大象传媒AccessAll.

My next guest describes herself as the UK鈥檚 only black female disabled comic. Dominique Davis, known on stage as Variety D, has been performing stand-up for over a decade, having started at just 16 years old. Variety D has epilepsy and is visually impaired, and does not shy away from speaking about disability on stage, as you鈥檒l hear:

VARIETY D- I had a brain surgery and I think before the brain surgery, the night before I was thinking, okay 鈥� it was a private hospital I got into by the way, a private one 鈥� and the nurses and doctors looked like porn stars [laughter], general triple X hospital, like a soap drama [laughter], before they take their clothes off.聽 Because he has that chiselled chin, you know, because doctors usually in Britain don鈥檛 have that look. They have that Captain Birdseye, like, I want to retire look [laughter]. Professor Jekyll and Hyde, you know what I mean, the Incredible Hulk鈥檚 best friend, you know, them ones there? [laughter]

EMMA- Variety D joins me now fresh from a major gig hosting at the Greenwich and Docklands festival. Hello Variety D, you鈥檙e so welcome.

VARIETY D- Hiya.

EMMA- And how was the festival?聽

VARIETY D- Oh, it was brilliant. So, you鈥檙e talking in the daytime families, little ones, toddlers, you know, they鈥檙e so cute. And then you have carers with people who have different disabilities, like cerebral palsy, different stages of autism, even visual impairments, blind 鈥� basically like us. And鈥�

EMMA- [Laughs] glad to see we were represented.聽

VARIETY D- Oh definitely, we were not missed out. And then later on in the nighttime the carers take their friends back home and they come back and let their hair down, it鈥檚, 鈥榃oo!鈥�.聽

EMMA- I鈥檓 sure there鈥檚 some disabled people letting their hair down as well.聽

VARIETY D- They were there. They wouldn鈥檛 have gone home for no one.聽

EMMA- Okay, so you started stand-up at 16 years old. Why did you start so young, do you think?聽

VARIETY D- I wasn鈥檛 meant to, because I went through the back doors of this place called the Comedy Caf茅, which is not there anymore, in Shoreditch. And it was amateur night and I did really well. The comp猫re at the time knew that I was 16 but the audience didn鈥檛 really know. At the time Catherine Tate was the hot stuff back then, and she could imitate a teenage girl, whilst I WAS a teenage girl, so they thought that I was like a black Catherine Tate.聽

EMMA- Oh okay, so you were of the moment, kind of thing.聽

VARIETY D- Exactly [laughs].聽

EMMA- Oh okay. Was that part of your act, black Catherine Tate?

VARIETY D- Nope.聽

EMMA- No [laughs].聽

VARIETY D- Because I was 16, I鈥檓 a real teenager, you know. Not, 鈥楢m I bothered?鈥� I am here, I am, you know, bothered to be here, to be funny.聽

EMMA- So, you started at 16. You just kept going or did you try to look for other jobs or what did you do?聽

VARIETY D- No, because I鈥檓 not really able to work like many other people who do work hard in places like Tesco鈥檚 and Sainsbury鈥檚 鈥� no sponsor.聽

EMMA- [Laughs] Other supermarkets are available.聽

VARIETY D- Exactly. Because of my epilepsy it鈥檚 very unpredictable when I could have a seizure, and at the time there was no way I could get a job. I would have to be on things like disability benefits and stuff.聽

EMMA- Why do you think you can work as a comedian but no other job is suitable? How does being a comedian work so well for you?聽

VARIETY D- The best thing 鈥� I know it sounds weird 鈥� but when you think of people like the late, great Tommy Cooper, he died on stage. So, if I had a seizure and I was in an office I don鈥檛 think people would notice until too late, [laughs], there may be one, two people. But if it鈥檚 the stage, then people will know me and my legacy will go on.聽

EMMA- Right.聽

VARIETY D- Do you see what I鈥檓 saying?聽

EMMA- So, A, there鈥檒l be someone there if you have a seizure, and B, it might actually further your career or your legacy would live on?

VARIETY D- Exactly.聽

EMMA- [Laughs]

VARIETY D- In the industry you鈥檝e got the people on standby who could be at your aid, especially now in the 2020s. But if I was in an office block or something or in an aisle at the shops no one would know, like, if I鈥檓 having a seizure or something, or they鈥檒l probably assume that I鈥檝e drunk too much or, you know.聽

EMMA- Interesting take on that. I don鈥檛 know in the performing arts how many people feel that that鈥檚 a good employment option, but you鈥檝e made it work.聽

VARIETY D- But I鈥檓 breaking the cycle because even when you introduced me I love that I was known as the first black British disabled comic.聽

EMMA- Yeah.聽

VARIETY D- Especially in this era. But I鈥檓 not the first anymore; there are more other black disabled comics. I met a few of them up in Edinburgh Fringe, and I鈥檓 going there again next month.聽

EMMA- So, who are the other ones we should be looking out for?聽

VARIETY D- You鈥檝e got to look for鈥�oh god, I can鈥檛 think off the top of my head. This is when the neurological disorder stuff will happen.聽

EMMA- Oh.聽

VARIETY D- I can think of their faces when I met them on the Royal Mile and the South Quay but I just can鈥檛 remember their names.聽

EMMA- So, was it quite exciting to see?聽

VARIETY D- Yeah. You know, the mad question I asked them was, 鈥榃here have you been?鈥� because all these years it felt like I was in the mountains by myself. And when you climb the mountain very high it鈥檚 cold, it gets colder, you know.聽

EMMA- And lonely.聽

VARIETY D- Exactly, cold and lonely.聽

EMMA- In terms of the highs and lows and the audience reaction does that have any impact on your epilepsy? Does it ever bring on any sort of seizures?聽

VARIETY D- No.聽

EMMA- Does it ever cause you any problem?聽

VARIETY D- There was only once, and because I don鈥檛 drink alcohol, thank god, there was only once I had a seizure before a gig, literally half an hour before a gig, and that was in Cardiff. And the promoters at the time had never seen anything like that so they were kind of scared, especially with my type of epilepsy. And they said to me, a random question when I got back to consciousness, they were like, 鈥楢re you all right? Do you want to go back home?鈥� and I鈥檓 like, 鈥楳ate, we鈥檙e not even in London, let alone Croydon 鈥� that鈥檚 where I live now. We鈥檙e in Cardiff!鈥�.

EMMA- Yeah, there鈥檚 no way I can go home right now.聽

VARIETY D- I can鈥檛 go home from here just like that, you know, unless I鈥檝e got some magic shoes like Dorothy then yeah, I can go home [laughs]. I told the audience what happened though.聽

EMMA- So, you actually went on stage after the seizure?聽

VARIETY D- Yeah. I took my emergency medication because I think my body was getting used to this thing called gabapentin, so it was immune, so I made sure I took some of those. So, I went on stage because I was on first 鈥� they always put on ladies first 鈥� and I told the audience what happened and then I got a standing ovation, like, 鈥榃oo!鈥� you know, shout about it.聽

EMMA- It鈥檚 resilience. We love a bit of resilience.聽

VARIETY D- Yeah. And the audience were so lovely because someone was saying, 鈥楳y son has epilepsy, I should鈥檝e brought him here to show that there鈥檚 a comedian that has epilepsy and, you know, is black too鈥�. You know, in the accent they were saying that. I can鈥檛 do the Welsh accent.聽

EMMA- Yeah, so that鈥檚 an interesting combo. I guess it鈥檚 interesting for black audience members to see鈥�

VARIETY D- Exactly.聽

EMMA- 鈥�a disabled person and someone with epilepsy as well. And what was it like growing up in the African Caribbean community disabled? Was it inclusive of your impairments? What did you come up against?聽

VARIETY D- Well, growing up in the 大象传媒, the black British community, it鈥檚 really interesting because some people, it鈥檚 not our fault, they think it鈥檚 taboo, you know, it鈥檚 like a curse. It鈥檚 like, 鈥極h your parents have been bad, that鈥檚 why you鈥檝e got this stuff鈥� and blahdy-blah.聽

EMMA- Does that still happen?聽

VARIETY D- Yeah. Or, 鈥榊ou don鈥檛 go to church every Sunday and, you know, you ain鈥檛 done your homework, you鈥檙e not reading your English books鈥�. I鈥檓 like really? Really? Really? It鈥檚 always those family members you don鈥檛 see, once in a blue moon, someone passed away or every Christmas, and they don鈥檛 give you presents, they鈥檙e just wondering what鈥檚 going on in your life.聽

EMMA- That鈥檚 interesting that people in the community who said that your impairments were maybe god鈥檚 punishment. Where do you think that comes from?聽

VARIETY D- Oh, from way, way back. It鈥檚 generations, you know, the bible in the hand, you know.聽

EMMA- It must be hard not to believe that yourself if you鈥檙e being told that all the time?聽

VARIETY D- Yeah, I mean it鈥檚 a fact of changing things. If you can鈥檛 change it who will? Who will change it for you? And the woman that inspired me for saying things like that is Angie Le Mar, who鈥檚 one of the Caribbean queens of comedy from here. And another comedian by the name of Gina Yashere is the African queen, you see.聽

EMMA- Right. So, you鈥檝e taken what they鈥檝e said and put a bit of a disability slant on it as well?聽

VARIETY D- Oh yeah. So, I鈥檓 the disabled one. Them two they鈥檝e got their own things going on.聽

EMMA- They鈥檝e got their USPs and you鈥檝e got your USP.聽

VARIETY D- Absolutely, that鈥檚 my unique selling point.聽

EMMA- Variety D, what is next for you?聽

VARIETY D- So, coming up next, besides the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, I will be performing at the Comedy Incorporated which is held in Herne Hill.聽

EMMA- And then you鈥檙e in Edinburgh Fringe. Are you there for the full festival?聽

VARIETY D- No, only half. So, I鈥檓 going to be there mid-August till the end.聽

EMMA- Right, okay we鈥檒l look you up.聽

VARIETY D- Yes, please do look me up. I鈥檓 googleable. I tell people this, especially in South London, I鈥檓 googleable. Google Variety D.聽

EMMA- Okay.聽

VARIETY D- Or comedian Variety D, comedian. Because people put Dee, and that鈥檚 not how you spell my name. They think I鈥檓 like a deejay.聽

EMMA- Oh okay, so it鈥檚 just Variety and the letter D.聽

VARIETY D- The letter D for delightful or delicious, you know.聽

EMMA- Aha.聽

VARIETY D- Or disabled [laughs].聽

EMMA- Well, Variety D it鈥檚 been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being with me on Access All.聽

VARIETY D- Thanks for having me.聽

EMMA- That is almost it for this episode, but before we go we did promise to let you know about the new Disability Minister鈥檚 appointment. And with a little fanfare [makes trumpet noise] Stephen Timms is the new Minister for Social Security and Disability. Now, he is a Minister of State, because you will remember that for a little while in the last government the post was downgraded, some might say, to Parliamentary Undersecretary of State. He is a Minister of State. He鈥檚 an experienced MP; he has been in parliament since 1994 and held various government positions under the Labour government when Tony Blair was Prime Minister. Most recently in the last parliament he was the chair of the Work and Pensions Committee where he ran two enquiries around disability employment. Now, disability campaigners are sceptical because of how broad his brief is: it鈥檚 disability and social security. But only time will tell. We have requested an interview with Stephen Timms as soon as possible.聽

Also Stephen Kinnock is Minister of State for Care, and that includes special educational needs and disabilities. And remember Vicky Foxcroft? She was the Shadow Disability Minister. She鈥檚 been made a whip in this government, and she said on X that she鈥檚 absolutely loved getting to know the disability community over the last four years.聽

That is really it for this week鈥檚 episode. Thanks to our guests Katie Watson and Jonathon Wales, and also comedian Variety D. Please do subscribe to us if you like what you hear, you can do so on 大象传媒 Sounds. Also do send us messages because that is how we know what you want us to talk about. You can find us on the socials @大象传媒AccessAll. You can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or you could actually send us a text message or a voice note on WhatsApp, our number聽 is 0330 123 9480. I鈥檓 actually on my summer holidays for the next couple of weeks, so lovely Paul Carter will be in the hot seat for those two episodes. See you when I get back. Bye.聽

[Trailer for Reliable Sauce]

KIRSTY- Do you want to know what鈥檚 going on in the world but you can鈥檛 really be bothered to read the news?聽

JONELLE- Want to understand what鈥檚 gone viral and what鈥檚 trending?聽

BOTH- Hey, hey, hey!

KIRSTY- Join me, Kirsty Grant.聽

JONELLE- And me, Jonelle Awomoyi on our weekly podcast, Reliable Sauce.聽

KIRSTY- We鈥檙e both journalists at 大象传媒 News.聽

JONELLE- And each week we鈥檒l be breaking down the stories everyone鈥檚 obsessed with. What the hell is going on with this Stanley Cup craze?聽

KIRSTY- How often do you think about the Roman Empire?聽

MALE- There are weeks that it will come up in my brain more than once.聽

JONELLE- Expect interviews with the hottest influencers and content creators.聽

KIRSTY- Jordan Theresa, welcome along. Matt, joins us now. Welcome to the Reliable Sauce studio!

MATT- Thank you for having me.聽

KIRSTY- Let鈥檚 talk more about this with Catie Baser who鈥檚 in the studio with us.聽

CATIE- Hi.

KIRSTY- And hand-picked experts to help us make sense of it all when we need them.聽

FEMALE- So, the law is there, but we really need these social media companies to act.聽

FEMALE- Terms like this seem quite flippant, but of course they can be really serious.聽

KIRSTY- And we will聽 have a little giggle too [laughter].聽

JONELLE- So, please come and join our spicy band.聽

KIRSTY- Listen on 大象传媒 Sounds now.聽