Main content

‘It felt really unfair’: The disabled migrants turned away from Australia

The challenges of relocating Down Under for disabled people and their families.

It is known as the land of the “fair go” but some disabled people hoping to move to Australia are having their visa applications rejected because of presumed costs around their health care.

Emma Tracey speaks to the ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝â€™s Australia correspondent, Katy Watson, who experienced this policy first hand when filing paperwork for her son who has Down’s syndrome. And Jonathon Wales, who planned to move to Australia for a dream job, says his family’s hopes were crushed when their plans were halted because his son is autistic.

We hear about the legislative review that is looking into this.

Also in this episode, Dominique Davis - aka Variety D - talks about how it feels to perform on stage as a black, female, disabled comic.

Presenter Emma Tracey
Production by Alex Collins and Daniel Gordon
Recorded and mixed by Dave O’Neill
Edited by Beth Rose

Release date:

Available now

27 minutes

Transcript


16th July 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 113

Presented by Emma Tracey 



EMMA- What a brilliant weekend it was for British sport, right? 

MALE- [Tennis playing and cheers] Game, set and match Hewett, by two sets to love: 6-2, 6-3. The starter line for the British number one and home hero, Alfie Hewett. He wins his first Wimbledon wheelchair singles title, and with it completes the historic career singles Grand Slam.

EMMA- That was Britain’s Alfie Hewett there winning the men’s wheelchair tennis singles final at Wimbledon at the weekend. He went on to win the doubles final with Gordon Reid on the same day. Alfie is only the second male player of all time to win every singles and every doubles title in every wheelchair tennis grand slam. 

FEMALE- Is this the best day of your illustrious tennis career?

ALFIE- It’s been obviously a memorable day. Definitely the best day of my life [cheering and applause]. Today is the stuff of dreams really and it was very emotional earlier to clinch my first singles but, you know, I wanted to come back obviously with GO and retain the title. And I’m just very proud that we can do that. 

EMMA- We’re really excited here on Access All because Alfie Hewett himself is going to be coming to talk to us in the next few weeks. On with the show. 

MUSIC- Theme music. 

EMMA- I’m Emma Tracey and this is Access All, the ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝â€™s weekly disability and mental health podcast. But we’re really a podcast about people and their stories, so if you love the sound of that stick with us, you are so welcome. This time we’ll be talking to comedian Variety D. And how does Australia deal with disabled migrants? ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝ correspondent Katie Watson is here to tell us more. 

It’s the land of the fair go, but some people applying for Australian visas are finding that their applications are being rejected because they or a family member are disabled. Australia is one of the few countries which routinely rejects visa applications on the basis of somebody’s medical needs; specifically if the cost of care would exceed AUD 86,000 or ÂŁ45,000 over 10 years. There is a campaign to get this changed though. ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝ Australia correspondent Katie Watson has just moved down under with her family and she’s got a son with Down’s Syndrome. Katie hi, thank you for joining us. 

KATIE- Hello, hi, nice to be here. 

EMMA- Also here is Jonathon Wales. Now, Jonathon planned to move over to Perth in Australia for a job in the police force because Western Australia has a big shortage of police officers. His visa was rejected because his son is autistic. Hi Jonathon, you’re really welcome. 

JONATHON- Hi there. 

EMMA- Jonathon, we’re going to come back to you, but I’m going to start with you Katie. So, you’ve been working on this story about disabled migrants in Australia and those trying to move for quite a while. Tell us the situation there at the moment. 

KATIE- I found out about it because I was applying for a visa and I was told by a migration agent that there would be some stumbling blocks if I wanted to apply for a permanent visa in Australia; which I didn’t have any intention of, I’m here on a posting. But one of those stumbling blocks was the fact that Otis, who is three, has Down’s Syndrome. And basically Australia looks at migrants as costs, and fair enough, every country has a right to say who they want to come in and how much, you know, whether they can afford those migrants to come in. But what it does it kind of has this blanket approach which it looks at, as you’ve mentioned, an amount which is AUD 86,000. Now it’s actually just gone up quite considerably. Up until last month it was, like, nearly half that. And effectively it looks at the cost of what a typical Australian would need or access, so somebody with Down’s Syndrome what they would need to be supported, and if that exceeds then you fail what’s called a health requirement. Now, at that point the government says you aren’t necessarily rejected from a visa. Depending on the visa you can apply for a waiver, a health waiver and see whether they’d waive that cost, or you can appeal, you can go to the minister on compassionate grounds. But that’s not all visas, and especially if you aren’t even in Australia then it’s pretty much the end of the road if you fail the health requirement. It’s very difficult to be able to argue, to be able to come into Australia if you are seen as basically too expensive. 

But it’s worth also saying that it’s too expensive depending on, you know, if you had private health insurance or if you decided to pay for it, or if your child doesn’t actually have any additional therapies or extra support that doesn’t matter. They look at this typical Australian what they would be able to access and that’s how they look at the cost. 

EMMA- It does sound very complicated. And what’s also interesting is that the Migration Act is exempt from Australia’s Disability Discrimination Act, is that right? 

KATIE- That is right and that’s something that campaigners are really trying to argue. And in fact the UN in 2019 flagged Australia’s migration policies as potentially discriminating against those who have got disabilities, those who have chronic health conditions and said these things needs to be addressed. 

EMMA- Jonathon let me come to you. You’re a police officer in Scotland and you had planned to move with your family to Australia. And that was a dream of yours, wasn’t it? 

JONATHON- My wife and I spent a year in Australia when we were younger, and we’ve returned on holiday numerous times since then. We’ve got family and a good network of friends in Perth. Every so often the police seem to do an international recruitment drive where they’ll look to a country like the UK to try and boost their own numbers with experienced officers. 

EMMA- And what happened when you did apply? 

JONATHON- I’ve got three children, our middle child, Freddie, he’s five years old and he was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder about three years ago now, so he was just turned three when he was diagnosed. Now, I had never considered that that diagnosis would have any impact on our prospects of emigrating to Australia. It’s not something that even our family and friends in Australia had ever highlighted to me that they thought it may be an issue. 

EMMA- But it did?

JONATHON- It certainly did. So, it’s quite a robust recruitment process, a lot of expense as well to go through to obtain the offer of employment, which eventually I did. So, I went right through the recruitment process, was offered the position at the end of that, even so far as I got my station where I was going to be based in Perth. But during that sort of process I started to become aware of wee snippets of people who had experienced similar issues with visas, with children or family members with disabilities, so I’d started to try and find out what I could from sources online and previous stories that had been covered. When I started to see that there may be an issue we employed the services of an immigration based in Perth to really assess our prospect of success with an application. They said to me there’s no prospect of success with our visa application, and at that point it was not financially viable for us to submit an application based on that and pay all that money when we had no prospect of getting it. 

EMMA- Do you still want to go to Australia and does your wife still want to go to Australia? How does she feel about what’s happened and what the process has been like? 

JONATHON- I suppose yes, it’s been a dream, I would love to go to Australia. However, it does change the way we think about the country because it feels like they’ve told us that your son’s not good enough to come here. That’s how it feels, you know, they have basically written him off. Now, he may have his challenges but I’ve got absolutely no doubt that he can achieve what he wants to in life, and I don’t feel it’s fair that they can say that especially to children, to say that you’ll certainly be a burden to us and you’re not going to bring anything to society. Whereas I would be working full time contributing, my wife would be working as well contributing. We’ve got two other children who would I’m sure contribute hugely to Australia and to society there. So, it felt really, really unfair. And certainly I think my wife might be a bit more bitter, if that’s that correct term to use, about the whole thing and she is almost like ‘well, why would we go there now if that’s their attitude?’

EMMA- Well, one disabled adult who did make it down under was Tim Rushby-Smith whose wife and children are from Australia. But he did have to jump through lots of hoops before he could get there. Here’s his voice note:

TIM- I was 45 when I moved to Australia with my wife and two kids in 2013. I’m paraplegic and a wheelchair user, and I was working as a freelance journalist at the time of the move. We had a migration agent who explained to us that we would go through the process of applying for my residency and that I would be rejected on medical grounds because of my paraplegia. However, she explained that she would lodge an appeal at the same time as the original application, so I still had to go through a medical examination and have my medical records scrutinised. The appeal was made on the basis that the decision would negatively impact on other Australian citizens. That’s to say my wife being an Australian citizen and both my children having dual nationality, if they were to reject my application for residency they would effectively be dividing the family up. And so that was the basis by which I was successful in the application. So, I moved in 2013 and I got Australian citizenship myself about four years ago now and I’m very happy over here. 

EMMA- Katie, what’s your reaction to everything you’ve heard? 

KATIE- When I filled out a form for my visa I had to answer a question for each of my children, and one of the questions was, ‘Are you physically or intellectually disabled which will impede you from being independent or holding down a full-time job?’. I wrote in it no, this was for Otis, I said, ‘No, he has Down’s Syndrome which means he has an intellectual disability. That does not mean that he will not be independent or hold a full-time job. What will impede him from that is the fact that he is two. And none of my other typical children will be able to do that either’. But then the migration agent said, ‘You can’t do that’ [laughs].

EMMA- Right. 

KATIE- ‘Basically you won’t get a visa if you do that.’ And I guess for me, it’s similar to what Jonathon said, I felt completely unable to advocate for my child. I absolutely expect Otis to be independent. He will not be living with us when he’s in his 20s. I don’t want him to be living with us [laughter]. He absolutely will have his own life. 

EMMA- And what’s the Australian government saying about all of this? 

KATIE- So, they held a review and there have been submissions to this review. Now, we don’t know what’s going to be in that review. One of the campaigners I spoke to is really pushing for is that they don’t include education support, because that’s one of the things that probably takes out the likes of Jonathon’s son or my son if I was wanting to move permanently. As soon as you factor in needing support in education services that costs much more and will go over that threshold that we’ve been talking about. And what they’re arguing is that you shouldn’t include education in it. At the end of the day education is a tool that will help people integrate and be part of society, so you shouldn’t see that as a cost; that should be a benefit to Australian society. 

EMMA- So, separate education from the health aspect?

KATIE- Absolutely, exactly. 

EMMA- So, this review is due to come out really soon. Any other legislation do you think might change? 

KATIE- Unfortunately apparently the Migration Act being exempt from the Discrimination Act, according to a migration lawyer who I was speaking to said that’s probably unlikely to come out of the review because I think that needs to go through the Attorney General. So, that’s something that probably won’t be changed any time soon. But I think it’s still the model of seeing the overall cost, seeing anybody as a cost to society as opposed to looking at the overall contributions and what contributions people make. I think that model will be a hard one to shift in Australia, but it’ll be interesting to see whether indeed that coming out of this review they will shake this system up, because certainly they’ve been asked and told by lots of people that maybe they need to relook at it. 

EMMA- All right, well we’ll keep an eye on this story and we’ll let our listeners know the results of that review when they come out. Katie Watson, the ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝â€™s Australia correspondent, and Jonathon Wales, police officer in Scotland, thank you so much for joining me. 

JONATHON- Thank you. 

KATIE- Thank you. 

EMMA- If you have a story that you want to share with us please do get in touch in the usual ways. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can find us on social media @´óĎó´ŤĂ˝AccessAll.

My next guest describes herself as the UK’s only black female disabled comic. Dominique Davis, known on stage as Variety D, has been performing stand-up for over a decade, having started at just 16 years old. Variety D has epilepsy and is visually impaired, and does not shy away from speaking about disability on stage, as you’ll hear:

VARIETY D- I had a brain surgery and I think before the brain surgery, the night before I was thinking, okay – it was a private hospital I got into by the way, a private one – and the nurses and doctors looked like porn stars [laughter], general triple X hospital, like a soap drama [laughter], before they take their clothes off.  Because he has that chiselled chin, you know, because doctors usually in Britain don’t have that look. They have that Captain Birdseye, like, I want to retire look [laughter]. Professor Jekyll and Hyde, you know what I mean, the Incredible Hulk’s best friend, you know, them ones there? [laughter]

EMMA- Variety D joins me now fresh from a major gig hosting at the Greenwich and Docklands festival. Hello Variety D, you’re so welcome.

VARIETY D- Hiya.

EMMA- And how was the festival? 

VARIETY D- Oh, it was brilliant. So, you’re talking in the daytime families, little ones, toddlers, you know, they’re so cute. And then you have carers with people who have different disabilities, like cerebral palsy, different stages of autism, even visual impairments, blind – basically like us. And…

EMMA- [Laughs] glad to see we were represented. 

VARIETY D- Oh definitely, we were not missed out. And then later on in the nighttime the carers take their friends back home and they come back and let their hair down, it’s, ‘Woo!’. 

EMMA- I’m sure there’s some disabled people letting their hair down as well. 

VARIETY D- They were there. They wouldn’t have gone home for no one. 

EMMA- Okay, so you started stand-up at 16 years old. Why did you start so young, do you think? 

VARIETY D- I wasn’t meant to, because I went through the back doors of this place called the Comedy Café, which is not there anymore, in Shoreditch. And it was amateur night and I did really well. The compère at the time knew that I was 16 but the audience didn’t really know. At the time Catherine Tate was the hot stuff back then, and she could imitate a teenage girl, whilst I WAS a teenage girl, so they thought that I was like a black Catherine Tate. 

EMMA- Oh okay, so you were of the moment, kind of thing. 

VARIETY D- Exactly [laughs]. 

EMMA- Oh okay. Was that part of your act, black Catherine Tate?

VARIETY D- Nope. 

EMMA- No [laughs]. 

VARIETY D- Because I was 16, I’m a real teenager, you know. Not, ‘Am I bothered?’ I am here, I am, you know, bothered to be here, to be funny. 

EMMA- So, you started at 16. You just kept going or did you try to look for other jobs or what did you do? 

VARIETY D- No, because I’m not really able to work like many other people who do work hard in places like Tesco’s and Sainsbury’s – no sponsor. 

EMMA- [Laughs] Other supermarkets are available. 

VARIETY D- Exactly. Because of my epilepsy it’s very unpredictable when I could have a seizure, and at the time there was no way I could get a job. I would have to be on things like disability benefits and stuff. 

EMMA- Why do you think you can work as a comedian but no other job is suitable? How does being a comedian work so well for you? 

VARIETY D- The best thing – I know it sounds weird – but when you think of people like the late, great Tommy Cooper, he died on stage. So, if I had a seizure and I was in an office I don’t think people would notice until too late, [laughs], there may be one, two people. But if it’s the stage, then people will know me and my legacy will go on. 

EMMA- Right. 

VARIETY D- Do you see what I’m saying? 

EMMA- So, A, there’ll be someone there if you have a seizure, and B, it might actually further your career or your legacy would live on?

VARIETY D- Exactly. 

EMMA- [Laughs]

VARIETY D- In the industry you’ve got the people on standby who could be at your aid, especially now in the 2020s. But if I was in an office block or something or in an aisle at the shops no one would know, like, if I’m having a seizure or something, or they’ll probably assume that I’ve drunk too much or, you know. 

EMMA- Interesting take on that. I don’t know in the performing arts how many people feel that that’s a good employment option, but you’ve made it work. 

VARIETY D- But I’m breaking the cycle because even when you introduced me I love that I was known as the first black British disabled comic. 

EMMA- Yeah. 

VARIETY D- Especially in this era. But I’m not the first anymore; there are more other black disabled comics. I met a few of them up in Edinburgh Fringe, and I’m going there again next month. 

EMMA- So, who are the other ones we should be looking out for? 

VARIETY D- You’ve got to look for…oh god, I can’t think off the top of my head. This is when the neurological disorder stuff will happen. 

EMMA- Oh. 

VARIETY D- I can think of their faces when I met them on the Royal Mile and the South Quay but I just can’t remember their names. 

EMMA- So, was it quite exciting to see? 

VARIETY D- Yeah. You know, the mad question I asked them was, ‘Where have you been?’ because all these years it felt like I was in the mountains by myself. And when you climb the mountain very high it’s cold, it gets colder, you know. 

EMMA- And lonely. 

VARIETY D- Exactly, cold and lonely. 

EMMA- In terms of the highs and lows and the audience reaction does that have any impact on your epilepsy? Does it ever bring on any sort of seizures? 

VARIETY D- No. 

EMMA- Does it ever cause you any problem? 

VARIETY D- There was only once, and because I don’t drink alcohol, thank god, there was only once I had a seizure before a gig, literally half an hour before a gig, and that was in Cardiff. And the promoters at the time had never seen anything like that so they were kind of scared, especially with my type of epilepsy. And they said to me, a random question when I got back to consciousness, they were like, ‘Are you all right? Do you want to go back home?’ and I’m like, ‘Mate, we’re not even in London, let alone Croydon – that’s where I live now. We’re in Cardiff!’.

EMMA- Yeah, there’s no way I can go home right now. 

VARIETY D- I can’t go home from here just like that, you know, unless I’ve got some magic shoes like Dorothy then yeah, I can go home [laughs]. I told the audience what happened though. 

EMMA- So, you actually went on stage after the seizure? 

VARIETY D- Yeah. I took my emergency medication because I think my body was getting used to this thing called gabapentin, so it was immune, so I made sure I took some of those. So, I went on stage because I was on first – they always put on ladies first – and I told the audience what happened and then I got a standing ovation, like, ‘Woo!’ you know, shout about it. 

EMMA- It’s resilience. We love a bit of resilience. 

VARIETY D- Yeah. And the audience were so lovely because someone was saying, ‘My son has epilepsy, I should’ve brought him here to show that there’s a comedian that has epilepsy and, you know, is black too’. You know, in the accent they were saying that. I can’t do the Welsh accent. 

EMMA- Yeah, so that’s an interesting combo. I guess it’s interesting for black audience members to see…

VARIETY D- Exactly. 

EMMA- …a disabled person and someone with epilepsy as well. And what was it like growing up in the African Caribbean community disabled? Was it inclusive of your impairments? What did you come up against? 

VARIETY D- Well, growing up in the ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝, the black British community, it’s really interesting because some people, it’s not our fault, they think it’s taboo, you know, it’s like a curse. It’s like, ‘Oh your parents have been bad, that’s why you’ve got this stuff’ and blahdy-blah. 

EMMA- Does that still happen? 

VARIETY D- Yeah. Or, ‘You don’t go to church every Sunday and, you know, you ain’t done your homework, you’re not reading your English books’. I’m like really? Really? Really? It’s always those family members you don’t see, once in a blue moon, someone passed away or every Christmas, and they don’t give you presents, they’re just wondering what’s going on in your life. 

EMMA- That’s interesting that people in the community who said that your impairments were maybe god’s punishment. Where do you think that comes from? 

VARIETY D- Oh, from way, way back. It’s generations, you know, the bible in the hand, you know. 

EMMA- It must be hard not to believe that yourself if you’re being told that all the time? 

VARIETY D- Yeah, I mean it’s a fact of changing things. If you can’t change it who will? Who will change it for you? And the woman that inspired me for saying things like that is Angie Le Mar, who’s one of the Caribbean queens of comedy from here. And another comedian by the name of Gina Yashere is the African queen, you see. 

EMMA- Right. So, you’ve taken what they’ve said and put a bit of a disability slant on it as well? 

VARIETY D- Oh yeah. So, I’m the disabled one. Them two they’ve got their own things going on. 

EMMA- They’ve got their USPs and you’ve got your USP. 

VARIETY D- Absolutely, that’s my unique selling point. 

EMMA- Variety D, what is next for you? 

VARIETY D- So, coming up next, besides the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, I will be performing at the Comedy Incorporated which is held in Herne Hill. 

EMMA- And then you’re in Edinburgh Fringe. Are you there for the full festival? 

VARIETY D- No, only half. So, I’m going to be there mid-August till the end. 

EMMA- Right, okay we’ll look you up. 

VARIETY D- Yes, please do look me up. I’m googleable. I tell people this, especially in South London, I’m googleable. Google Variety D. 

EMMA- Okay. 

VARIETY D- Or comedian Variety D, comedian. Because people put Dee, and that’s not how you spell my name. They think I’m like a deejay. 

EMMA- Oh okay, so it’s just Variety and the letter D. 

VARIETY D- The letter D for delightful or delicious, you know. 

EMMA- Aha. 

VARIETY D- Or disabled [laughs]. 

EMMA- Well, Variety D it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being with me on Access All. 

VARIETY D- Thanks for having me. 

EMMA- That is almost it for this episode, but before we go we did promise to let you know about the new Disability Minister’s appointment. And with a little fanfare [makes trumpet noise] Stephen Timms is the new Minister for Social Security and Disability. Now, he is a Minister of State, because you will remember that for a little while in the last government the post was downgraded, some might say, to Parliamentary Undersecretary of State. He is a Minister of State. He’s an experienced MP; he has been in parliament since 1994 and held various government positions under the Labour government when Tony Blair was Prime Minister. Most recently in the last parliament he was the chair of the Work and Pensions Committee where he ran two enquiries around disability employment. Now, disability campaigners are sceptical because of how broad his brief is: it’s disability and social security. But only time will tell. We have requested an interview with Stephen Timms as soon as possible. 

Also Stephen Kinnock is Minister of State for Care, and that includes special educational needs and disabilities. And remember Vicky Foxcroft? She was the Shadow Disability Minister. She’s been made a whip in this government, and she said on X that she’s absolutely loved getting to know the disability community over the last four years. 

That is really it for this week’s episode. Thanks to our guests Katie Watson and Jonathon Wales, and also comedian Variety D. Please do subscribe to us if you like what you hear, you can do so on ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝ Sounds. Also do send us messages because that is how we know what you want us to talk about. You can find us on the socials @´óĎó´ŤĂ˝AccessAll. You can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or you could actually send us a text message or a voice note on WhatsApp, our number  is 0330 123 9480. I’m actually on my summer holidays for the next couple of weeks, so lovely Paul Carter will be in the hot seat for those two episodes. See you when I get back. Bye. 

[Trailer for Reliable Sauce]

KIRSTY- Do you want to know what’s going on in the world but you can’t really be bothered to read the news? 

JONELLE- Want to understand what’s gone viral and what’s trending? 

BOTH- Hey, hey, hey!

KIRSTY- Join me, Kirsty Grant. 

JONELLE- And me, Jonelle Awomoyi on our weekly podcast, Reliable Sauce. 

KIRSTY- We’re both journalists at ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝ News. 

JONELLE- And each week we’ll be breaking down the stories everyone’s obsessed with. What the hell is going on with this Stanley Cup craze? 

KIRSTY- How often do you think about the Roman Empire? 

MALE- There are weeks that it will come up in my brain more than once. 

JONELLE- Expect interviews with the hottest influencers and content creators. 

KIRSTY- Jordan Theresa, welcome along. Matt, joins us now. Welcome to the Reliable Sauce studio!

MATT- Thank you for having me. 

KIRSTY- Let’s talk more about this with Catie Baser who’s in the studio with us. 

CATIE- Hi.

KIRSTY- And hand-picked experts to help us make sense of it all when we need them. 

FEMALE- So, the law is there, but we really need these social media companies to act. 

FEMALE- Terms like this seem quite flippant, but of course they can be really serious. 

KIRSTY- And we will  have a little giggle too [laughter]. 

JONELLE- So, please come and join our spicy band. 

KIRSTY- Listen on ´óĎó´ŤĂ˝ Sounds now. 


Podcast

Get the latest episodes of the Access All podcast the moment a new episode goes live!

Podcast