大象传媒

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19th August 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 118

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 [Background crowd noise] Hello, I am standing on the Royal Mile, and it is really busy here and the sun is shining. So, the weather is very nice for Scotland. And everybody on the Royal Mile is soaking up what these world famous Edinburgh Festivals have to offer. And what an offer we have for you this time because I鈥檓 on my way to record an episode of Access All in front of a live audience. And I have two spectacular guests: Adam Hills and Dan Tiernan. Dan Tiernan is a comedian with dyspraxia, and that comes into his show a lot. And his show has been attended by some incredible stars this year like Graham Norton and Gerard Butler. And then Australian Adam Hills, best known for The Last Leg on Channel 4. And I cannot wait to get to know them better, so on with the show.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 [Cheers and applause] Hello! Hi, hello, welcome to Access All. This is our live show at the Edinburgh Festival in front of a fabulous, fabulous audience. I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and this is Access All. We are the podcast from the 大象传媒 about disability and mental health. And we are recording from Dynamic Earth in front of an audience! [Cheers and applause] Oh, so needy needing all these cheers. Thank you for being here. Now, if you want to get in touch you can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk, and you can also get us on the socials @大象传媒AccessAll, so on Instagram and on X, formerly known as Twitter. And you can subscribe to us on 大象传媒 Sounds.

Now, on stage with me I have two very, very funny men. We have absolute massively up and coming comedian. He鈥檚 constantly on your telly box and winning awards. It鈥檚 Dan Tiernan! [Cheers and applause] Woo-hoo! And then we have a stalwart of the comedy scene.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Disability has always been a big part of what he does, which we absolutely love. He is from The Last Leg on Channel 4, it鈥檚 Adam Hills [cheers and applause].

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Woo!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You, honestly I have to say, audience, you are a far better audience than we had on the last Edinburgh episode [laughter] just a few minutes ago.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 These guys are good.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 These guys are rocking it. So, you鈥檝e both got shows at Edinburgh. Adam, yours is called Shoes Half Full. What鈥檚 it about?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, generally the show is about how I think we should all just stop shouting at each other and maybe just take a step back and just be a little bit calmer about controversial things and life in general. But it comes from a place of, the name comes from the fact that I鈥檝e spent a lot of time around disabled people recently, playing disabled rugby league and doing The Last Leg, and for me I think, it鈥檚 a massive generalisation, but I think when you鈥檝e got a disability sometimes it forces you to either become more positive or more negative. You either go, 鈥楻ight I鈥檓 missing a bit, life鈥檚 over鈥� or, 鈥業鈥檓 missing a bit, I鈥檓 going to make the most out of life鈥�. And I like to think I鈥檝e gone more positive with my disability; I like to think my shoes are half full.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I think Australia obviously feels that your shoes are half full and they love you because you鈥檙e on a postage stamp in Australia [laughter]. What the devil is that about?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, well right at the beginning of 2020 I was told that Australia Post were releasing a bunch of stamps of Australian comedy legends and that I was going to be one of them. And two things happened that made it, like, good and bad: COVID hit. So, it was going to be this big presentation where we were just presented with our stamps in front of an audience and our families were going to be there, and then of course we couldn鈥檛 do it because of lockdowns. But the upside was during lockdowns everyone was having stuff delivered to their houses, so I at one point, I can鈥檛 even remember what it was that I ordered, I think it was a jigsaw puzzle, but it came with 20 of my face on the front.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah!

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檇 bought it from one of those online stores, so I鈥檇 love to think that the person who sent it to me saw my name and thought, he鈥檒l get a laugh out of this, I鈥檒l put 20 stamps on the front with his face on.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] I mean, it鈥檚 not intimidating at all being on stage with this guy, is it, Dan Tiernan?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, it鈥檚 not intimidating. He鈥檚 rubbish really [laughter].

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I totally agree [laughs].

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 not true what they say about him, yeah. waste of a stamp [laughter]. I should be on the Australian stamp!

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you know the thing about putting a comedian on the front of a stamp? When you lick the back of it it tastes funny.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 See? Rubbish [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Adam, you鈥檙e probably best known now in the UK for The Last Leg, this started in 2012. What鈥檚 it about and where did you get the inspiration for The Last Leg?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 It was kind of a bit by accident, to be perfectly honest, in that the head of Channel 4 at the time was someone by the name of Jay Hunt, who was Australian, and she had fond memories of during 2000, the 2000 Olympics in Australia, there was a late night comedy duo that kind of wrapped up the Games. And she wanted to do the same for the Paralympics, and I was asked if I would host the show. Josh Widdicombe was just meant to be doing the medal table. Alex Brooker was just the first guest on the first show.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Wow.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Literally. And then the next day the head of the channel came in and went, 鈥極h my god, when you three are on camera together it really works鈥�. So, we were there generally and genuinely just to talk about the Paralympics, and then it just got bigger and bigger.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, how would you describe the show now?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Three blokes with four legs trying to make sense of the news [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Because you do keep a really keen eye on the news, and particularly disability news stories. What do you think is the one that sticks with you most over the last 12 years, Adam?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, it was very interesting. When we started making The Last Leg as a regular news weekly show, Channel 4 actually wanted us to talk less about disability sport, because we鈥檇 started as a Paralympics show and they wanted us to be a news show. And so they said not so much disability and not so much sport, we want you to talk more about the news. And we were like, but we started off as a disability sports show, wouldn鈥檛 we keep doing it? And they went, no, no, we want you to focus on the news. And then three weeks into that first season Oscar Pistorius hit the news [laughter] and so suddenly we had to talk about disability and we had to talk about sport. But we managed to do it in a way that, you know, we didn鈥檛 kind of celebrate, obviously, and we didn鈥檛 belittle; we just were genuine about it. But for me weirdly the one thing I鈥檝e found 鈥� and I didn鈥檛 realise this; someone else told me this 鈥� that it鈥檚 the weeks when we don鈥檛 talk about disability that we actually have as much effect as when we do, because when we talk about disability great, we鈥檙e bringing up an issue and we鈥檙e putting it out there in public, fantastic. But when we don鈥檛 we鈥檙e two blokes with disabilities who aren鈥檛 defined by their disabilities and don鈥檛 have to talk about it. So, someone said to me that if we鈥檙e up there with disabilities and we鈥檙e not actually talking about it, we鈥檙e just talking about everyday stuff, then that鈥檚 actually as empowering as if we are talking about a disability issue. So, for me sometimes, to quote Ronan Keating, we say it best when we say nothing at all [laughter].

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a shame, isn鈥檛 it, that a lot of TV the only way that you can have disabled people on TV is if they鈥檙e specifically talking about disability?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. We have the right to be as funny as everybody else about everyday stuff.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, and there鈥檚 a place for disability talk as well I would say maybe specifically [laughter].

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The last thing you want to do is make a podcast all about disability [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, this podcast is going to Paris for the Paralympics in a few weeks.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Are you?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, we are.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Excellent.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Can we get some wine and cheese together? That鈥檇 be nice.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh absolutely.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 But what are you guys planning for The Last Leg in Paris?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Funnily enough we鈥檝e just been writing on it today, so I鈥檝e been having Zoom meetings for the last few days whilst up here at the Edinburgh Fringe, planning ahead for what we鈥檙e going to do for Paris. So, we鈥檙e having鈥�I think you鈥檙e on the show at some point, aren鈥檛 you, Dan?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I am. I don鈥檛 know if I鈥檓 allowed to say but yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, yeah.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 All right, I鈥檓 on the show, yeah [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, and what鈥檚 your sporting connection, Dan?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 My sporting connection? I didn鈥檛 know that was a prerequisite requirement.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, is it not? Okay.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Sorry, what鈥檚 the episode about then? It鈥檚 not sport then, is it not?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 going to have to talk to our producers now, Dan.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh god, it鈥檚 because I called you rubbish, isn鈥檛 it, Adam? I shouldn鈥檛 have said that [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I heard you had gout at one point, Dan.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] That鈥檚 come out of nowhere!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, no, I was going to say, is that a Paralympic, one of the, what do you call it, where you鈥�

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 The classification.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 The classifications. I can never remember that word.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Gout football.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah [laughter].

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I do have the king鈥檚 disease, and I鈥檓 28. It鈥檚 kind of what my show鈥檚 about actually. I mean, it鈥檚 one of those things as a comedian 鈥� Adam, I鈥檓 sure you鈥檒l agree 鈥� something that other people would find out and be, like, that鈥檚 bad and embarrassing. I was absolutely delighted because I was like, that鈥檚 the through line of the show sorted, get in, what else have I got, come on.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e exactly right, as a comedian when you hear another comedian tell you something bad鈥檚 happened to them you just think wow, the material you鈥檙e going to get out of that. I genuinely saw a comedian on the street last week who I haven鈥檛 seen for years and I said, 鈥楬ow are you doing, man?鈥� And he went, 鈥極h not great, I got a divorce鈥�. And literally before I said I鈥檓 sorry I went, 鈥楤ut have you made it funny?鈥� [laughter]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Dan, there鈥檚 other stuff in your show as well.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Dyspraxia makes it in a little bit.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh yeah, of course, it鈥檒l always make it in. I鈥檓 neurodivergent in a way that makes me lose things and fall over a lot, so it鈥檇 be mad to not be able to make that funny. It鈥檚 the funniest disability there is I reckon. When I sort of powered up, so to speak, as a comedian was when I became quite present on stage, because I do walk and stand funny and stuff, when I started utilising that. So, even if I鈥檓 not talking about dyspraxia specifically I think my act is quite dyspraxic. I鈥檝e weaponised it [laughs].

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you think it helps? Because I think in that thing, it鈥檚 not a superpower, but it gives you a different angle on stuff.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean there鈥檚 two sides of it: firstly, lots of stuff that happens to me can be linked to dyspraxia, so I write very quick jokes so it helps link it all together, as in you can do a big chunk of stupid things you鈥檝e done or faux-pas you鈥檝e made or whatever, and then you use dyspraxia as the link. But then also just the way my unpredictable energy or whatever, I think a big part of that is down to my dyspraxia.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 really unique and extraordinary to watch and very exciting that energy.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 a little bit more high energy than this right now, I鈥檒l say, for me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I mean if you want to go for it, it鈥檚 absolutely fine with me.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I mentioned gout when you weren鈥檛 expecting it and you stayed very calm altogether.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, without risk of almost saying tell me a joke, but what鈥檚 your favourite bit of dyspraxic humour?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I lose things and get on the wrong trains and fall over so much, that when you see someone who鈥檚 鈥渘ormal鈥� 鈥� to use that word 鈥� they鈥檇 be absolutely heartbroken if they lost their phone with 拢100 in the phone case. But I鈥檝e learnt to be quite, like, yeah all right, just because I鈥檓 used to it.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh wow.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, they call it the neurodivergent tax, don鈥檛 they, where you have to kind of put some money aside for when something like that happens so that you鈥檙e not completely broke by it.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, that was interesting when someone pointed out to me that neurodivergent people it鈥檚 more than just you鈥檙e bad with money, it鈥檚 like you鈥檙e always breaking things and losing things and stuff.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 quite nice to be like, oh right, well yeah it鈥檚 not just because I鈥檓 really bad at saving money. I mean, there is that as well; it鈥檚 not all鈥�you can鈥檛 pin everything on being dyspraxic, you know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, you could.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檝e got to take some responsibility.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, the blind card does come out a lot here, it definitely does. Do you blame anything on having one foot, Adam?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 No. At the risk of, I saw myself as disabled but I never really got that many benefits when I was a kid. I think I got a free bus pass to go to school, that was about it. But I鈥檓 looking at you going, there should be benefits payments for that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 For dyspraxia, for people who lose money because of their disability. You know what I mean? It sounds awful鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 No, I think it鈥檚 true. I think it鈥檚 a really good point and lots of people would say that, and lots of people who are neurodivergent don鈥檛 get Personal Independence Payments because the form doesn鈥檛 necessarily suit their issues and the things that they need to cover.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 a massive issue.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it always is something that makes me feel a bit sick inside when people start mentioning that. Because it鈥檚 only recently that I realised that dyspraxia was recognised as a disability, because technically it鈥檚 an invisible disability; although I would argue mine is pretty visible [laughter]. Yeah, you think oh well no, it doesn鈥檛 affect me as badly as other people who are blind or have got one foot etc, etc.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Are we going to disability Top Trumps now?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, this is a competition and I鈥檓 losing [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What are the rules? Well, I don鈥檛 think you鈥檙e losing. They need to bring in the neurodivergent tax benefit and then you鈥檇 be winning.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, absolutely.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 what it is, you should be able to claim it back on tax.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 better than benefits. Benefits seems like you鈥檙e asking for a handout. But at the end of the year when the government goes, right what are your deductions? You go I鈥檝e got the neurodivergent tax.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 But he鈥檚 probably not remembered to do his tax returns though [laughter], that鈥檚 the issue.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Good point.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, exactly that. The amount of phones, I mean literally. I think it鈥檚 hilarious, but Edinburgh isn鈥檛 a city really built for disabled people, you know. It鈥檚 very steep.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, very steep.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 And very cobbly.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 A lot of cobbles, yeah. so, when it was raining the other day I had a huge fall down a hill and just completely tore my phone into shreds.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh no.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I was like, that鈥檚 100 quid. Lost my keys, 80 quid.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Were you okay?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I was sound, yeah, absolutely fine.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Did you lose your keys in the fall?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, that was separate, a separate issue [laughter]. 拢80 though, that鈥檚 a joke, isn鈥檛 it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 For a key?!

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, was it鈥�

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Because you go to the locksmith they say, 鈥極h no, these are security keys, you鈥檝e got to do them through the accommodation鈥� and they鈥檙e like 拢80.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 a lot of money for a key.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 On the other hand, so my prosthetic foot the first maybe four years I was here for the Fringe, I think three out of those four years my prosthetic foot broke. And I always wondered why, why would it happen in Edinburgh? And I think it鈥檚 the cobblestones. Like, prosthetics aren鈥檛 made for, you know, the foot wasn鈥檛 made for wobbling around like that constantly.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, and you鈥檙e doing your most steps at Edinburgh, right? It鈥檚 just a place that you walk around a lot.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e putting it through the wringer really I guess.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And what do you do when it breaks? Do you have another one handy in the flat or鈥�?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 I think I did. I think at that point I was travelling with a spare. I either travel with a spare or a lot of gaffer tape, and one of those things will get me through. But I remember wandering back, I think it was maybe it wasn鈥檛 Buccleuch Street but it was around there, with my prosthetic leg over my shoulder. There was a guy asking for money for the bus as I walked past and he was like, 鈥楨xcuse me mate鈥� and I was like, 鈥榊eah?鈥� 鈥榊ou haven鈥檛 got a spare pound, have you?鈥� And I was like, 鈥楿m, hang on, let me put my foot down so I鈥檝e got a free hand鈥�. [laughter] And he went, 鈥極h what鈥檚 happened to you?鈥� and I said, 鈥業鈥檝e broken my prosthetic foot鈥�. And he went, 鈥楢h, have you got that pound now?鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Brilliant, he didn鈥檛 care. Do you think the disability comedy scene is thriving? I mean, it seems like there鈥檚 quite a few people around at the moment. Is it in a good place? Is it moving forward? What do you think, lads?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I mean, firstly I think what people are regarding as disabled has widened, which is good because then it means that people can take ownership and there鈥檚 kind of like a platform. So, to mention Rosie Jones for instance, I didn鈥檛 have an agent or anything like that, and then I did the Rosie Jones Disability Comedy Extravaganza, and then that was on Dave and that was a huge break. And for me and a few other disabled acts that was almost like a life-changing opportunity. So, I think because there are things like that yeah, it鈥檚 really pushing people forward. And then I think it鈥檚 inspiring people to start comedy when for a lot of people, I mean you鈥檝e got to travel all around the country a lot as a standup, and I think people with disabilities probably think oh no, I couldn鈥檛 do that. But then the two are going together. So, yeah I reckon. What do you think, Adam?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, I mean, 2001 I think was the first time I ever talked about my prosthetic foot on stage, maybe 2002, and people were shocked. I鈥檇 never mentioned it on stage before, and suddenly I鈥檓 out there and going hey, I鈥檝e got a prosthetic leg, and I did half my show about it. If I was to do that now 23 years later it鈥檇 be like, oh mate this is old news. We鈥檝e got Chris McCausland, we鈥檝e got Rosie Jones, we鈥檝e got Dan Tiernan, there鈥檚 a whole show of disability comedians; there鈥檚 got to be about eight or nine of them up here. Like, you need something more than just a prosthetic leg.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You would have been the guy at one point though I imagine, like, you were the disabled comedian.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 I think so, yeah. And it was a real shock when I started talking about my prosthetic foot on stage, because I鈥檇 been doing comedy for years, and then suddenly I mentioned that. And some audience members were angry, like he鈥檚 never鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Really? Angry that you鈥檇 been lying to them all this time?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 He鈥檚 never mentioned that before. Well, I was like, why should I? There was no great reason to.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, but at the same time all the material that you could have been doing.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, funnily enough I had an agent when I started out very early on, and he said if you start making jokes about your foot right away you鈥檒l only become known as the one-legged comedian, so try and work out how to do comedy first and then you can start talking about your foot. But you鈥檙e right, yeah, in 2001 there was no one else who would have called themselves disabled who was doing this. Maybe Francesca Martinez, but that was about it I think.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And they鈥檙e all over my Instagram now.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, you can鈥檛 get rid of them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You can鈥檛 get rid of them.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, your algorithm, respectively, probably鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 To be fair.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 鈥�pushes a lot your way.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 To be fair that is true, that is true. But like lots of other comedians you鈥檝e both diversified quite a lot, gone into different areas. Dan, you were on Doctors.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. So, I played a dyspraxic thief.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Right, does that work well, does dyspraxia and鈥�?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Logan Padmore, yeah, yeah. Can I spoil an episode of Doctors? I鈥檓 not sure. Yeah, he nicks a watch, he falls over, yeah. I had to do my own stunts.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 been on though, hasn鈥檛 it?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 been on. I don鈥檛 think there鈥檚 anyone here going, 鈥楴o! I was halfway through that!鈥� [laughter]. Yeah, and then after my episode went out two weeks after the whole institution got completely axed, so.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, you broke Doctors.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I broke Doctors.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, well done.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And my knee [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And are you also looking into some writing, did I hear?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, sure. I鈥檓 developing a sitcom.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 But I actually can鈥檛 speak about that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I hate saying that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 okay.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I need to come up with a better line. I bet you鈥檝e got a good line that you would say if someone鈥檚 talking about a thing you can鈥檛 talk about, what would you say?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 You literally have to say, I鈥檓 developing a sitcom but if I tell you anything about it I have to kill you.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, okay. Well, I will kill you, Emma. I鈥檓 not sure about that one, Adam.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 No, okay.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I might have to go back to the drawing board on that one.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Or maybe you鈥檝e signed an NDA, a non-disability agreement [laughter].

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, got it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And you鈥檝e done lots of other stuff as well, Adam: you鈥檝e done some writing yourself, a kids鈥� author; you鈥檙e very sporty, you鈥檝e done disability rugby, which sounds a bit scary; you鈥檝e got a campaign going for disability standing tennis. Is that not just tennis?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. Well, interesting you should say that, yes. So, I鈥檝e been playing tennis since I was a kid, but I was always told if I wanted to play the Paralympics or play against anyone in a disability I had to get in a wheelchair. Because there鈥檚 no disability tennis for people who aren鈥檛 in wheelchairs. But if you鈥檝e got one arm you can鈥檛 use a wheelchair, or if you鈥檙e short statured, or sometimes if you鈥檝e got cerebral palsy. So, there鈥檚 actually a whole group of disabled people who have been pushed or kept to of tennis accidentally 鈥� it鈥檚 not been through malice. And so I found this underground movement about a year or so ago or a year and a half ago called para-standing tennis. And it鈥檚 people with disabilities like mine who don鈥檛 play in wheelchairs. And there鈥檚 categories, there鈥檚 like arm amputees, leg amputees, cerebral palsy, short statured.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 My god, how many people are in each category? Two? Four?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, we had the world championships in Turin, which was about two months ago.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Awesome.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 There were 70 players in all. I think there were maybe about eight or nine in the arm amputees. In my category, which was below knee and mild cerebral palsy, there were about 27 competitors. And I鈥檝e actually got a documentary coming out on Sky on 26th August about the whole thing. So, we鈥檙e really trying to push this thing and get it to the grand slams because there鈥檚 a whole bunch of people out there with disabilities that play tennis against able-bodied people but have never got the chance to play on a level playing field.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And are there any differences in the rules?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 If you are short statured or if you are category three, which is an above knee amputee or quite restrictive cerebral palsy you get two bounces. But apart from that that鈥檚 the only difference.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Right, so it鈥檚 really similar to tennis but it鈥檚 about people not being able to play it along with non-disabled people at a high level?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely, yeah. And even my doubles partner is a guy called Alex Hunt from New Zealand he was born with no arm, he鈥檚 got the elbow on his left side and then it stops, he is the first player with a limb difference to get an ATP point on the professional able-bodied tour, and at one point was ranked in the world鈥檚 top 1,600 able-bodied players. And he is absolutely unbelievable. That鈥檚 why I鈥檝e chosen him as a doubles partner [laughter]. But what鈥檚 amazing for him is like he turns up to play and he鈥檚 never played with people with disabilities before. So, he鈥檚 turning up going, I鈥檓 usually the guy that people look at and think how does this guy serve? He balances the tennis ball in the crook of his elbow and then flicks it up.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Wow.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh wow.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 But then he鈥檚 watching other people with the same arm serving differently. There鈥檚 one girl who balances the ball on her racket, and she throws it up from her racket. There鈥檚 one guy with no arms, he鈥檚 just got stumps, and he manages to hook the racket under each stump. And even his jokes don鈥檛 work, because we were playing doubles and the ball went onto the other court and he ran over to get it and he went, 鈥極h nice, make the guy with one arm do all the running鈥�. And I went, 鈥榃hat? You think the guy with one leg should do all the running?鈥� [laughter] and he looked at me and I went, 鈥榶our jokes don鈥檛 work here鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah, so it was a bit of a learning curve for him. Sorry Dan.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I was just going to say this, because these people, because it wasn鈥檛 like a sport, have just had to spend years working out how to serve themselves, but because of that new people who play will go, oh this serve exists, or you can try this one and they鈥檝e got techniques, you know, names and stuff.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 But that鈥檚 the disability community all over, isn鈥檛 it? If you get to spend time with people with similar impairments to you or any impairments you learn how to do stuff. You know, you鈥檙e just learning yourself at home and then you get a wider pool of people to learn from.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, there鈥檚 another word that they use for this form of tennis which is called adaptive, and I really like that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 And I heard Matt Forde mention that word in a previous podcast of yours 鈥� or in the next podcast of yours, depending on which order you put them to air. But I like the word adaptive because it takes鈥�I used to make this word on stage that the word disability sounds like a negative thing; but adaptative there鈥檚 a positive to that:

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檝e adapted, you鈥檝e found a way around it, you鈥檝e found a workaround.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. it鈥檚 like if you鈥檝e broken your leg you鈥檒l adapt something or whatever.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Right, we鈥檙e nearly done, it鈥檚 nearly a wrap, but I just want to see if there鈥檚 any questions from our audience. So, again, just to not leave the blind person feeling left out, if you can make a funny noise, raise your hand if you鈥檝e got any questions for Adam or Dan?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 There鈥檚 a hand down the front there. There you go, I鈥檓 your spotter.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you. What鈥檚 your name?

JOY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Joy. I was wondering if either of you managed to claim what was DLA and changed to PIP, if you鈥檝e managed to get that?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, yeah, I know a lot of people who鈥檝e claimed it. I鈥檓 not sure if I鈥檓 eligible to be honest. I think I鈥檝e never applied for the reasons I鈥檝e talked about where you say to yourself, oh I鈥檓 not properly disabled as people who are, you know, worse off than me or whatever. But it is probably something I should consider to be fair, yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 an interesting process because it鈥檚 designed to make things fairer a lot of the time, but I think it feels like it鈥檚 designed to actually weed people out as well. And I don鈥檛 mean people who aren鈥檛 telling the truth; I mean people who are possibly unable to fill out forms. I don鈥檛 claim anything here, but I do get my prosthetics covered under the NDIS in Australia, the National Disability Insurance Scheme. And for the first time ever recently I had to fill out the pages of forms. And it鈥檚 quite confronting to have to fill out a form and suddenly write down all the things you can鈥檛 do.

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, sure.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 And have to justify why I need a prosthetic foot. And that鈥檚 just for me. If you鈥檝e got cerebral palsy, like I know people, I think it was Rosie Jones that was telling me that it took her hours to fill out her form because it takes her hours to do anything with cerebral palsy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 So, it鈥檚 almost like a form of torture I think sometimes. There definitely needs to be a better system.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, the government is not here today to answer any of your questions about Personal Independence Payments. Is there a really, really quick question in the audience at all?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, there鈥檚 another hand that鈥檚 gone up.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, and your name as well?

ALI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 My name鈥檚 Ali. I was just wanting to ask what you鈥檙e most looking forward to at the Paralympic Games?

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Wheelchair basketball is always my favourite. To be honest just being in Paris is going to be wonderful. Having a Paralympic Games with an actual audience and crowd watching for the first time in ages is going to be brilliant. But Alice Tai is a British Paralympian who鈥檚 won gold medals in the past, she was on The Last Leg in 2021 and she had mentioned to me off air, she said, 鈥業鈥檓 going to have my foot amputated鈥� because she had talipes, which is like club feet. And I said, 鈥榃ell, tell you what, before you do that let鈥檚 go out for lunch and I鈥檒l be your foot Yoda. You can talk to me and I鈥檒l be like [Yoda voice] 鈥榟mm a good idea it is鈥�. [laughs] And I said, 鈥榃hy do you want to amputate your foot?鈥� and she said, 鈥楤ecause I want to be able to run. I want to have a prosthetic blade so I can run. Because I have to walk with crutches now鈥�. And this is what she said that really got me, she said me, 鈥業 just want to be able to walk down the street and hold a drink in my hand like my friends do鈥� because she couldn鈥檛, because she had crutches. So, she had her foot amputated, she held a party, we filmed it for a documentary called Amputating Alice, which ended up winning a sports journalism award.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Just for the name. I mean, the name鈥檚 fantastic.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely. Eight months after having her foot amputated she went to the Commonwealth Games and won gold.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Wow.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 And she鈥檚 now back at her first Paralympics in Paris. So, that鈥檚 who and what I鈥檓 looking forward to the most.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And what about you, Dan, do you know who you鈥檙e looking forward to at the Paralympics?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, so it鈥檚 straight after the Fringe so it鈥檚 a really intense month, and then to go to Paris to do The Last Leg it鈥檚 like a dream come true. I mean, Paralympics is amazing so to be involved in it in any way is sick. So, yeah I can鈥檛 wait.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, just everything about it?

DAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah, brilliant.

ADAM-听听听听听听听听听听听 The croissants.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, the cheese, the cheese. Listen, this has been an absolute pleasure. And I wanted to just give a huge, huge thank you to the brilliant Dan Tiernan and Adam Hills. [Cheers and applause] Well, I鈥檇 also like to say a huge thank you to our interpreters, Yvonne and Lucy. Thanks to you our amazing audience. Woo! Thank you to our guests today: Adam Hills and Dan Tiernan. Woo-hoo! [THEME MUSIC]

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