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TX date: 04 March 2020

Signing to save lives in the Australian bushfires

PRESENTER: Emily WebbÌý

GUEST:ÌýSean Sweeney

ÌýPRESENTER EMILY WEBB. Hello, I'm Emily Webb. Welcome to Outlook. When there's a crisis, a natural disaster or an attack, people often switch on their televisions or turn on their radios. Think of the recent bushfires in Australia.

RADIO ARCHIVE MONTAGE:

Reporter 1: Now to the raging wildfire catastrophe down in Australia. This is the kind of emergency… (FADE OUT)

Reporter 2: Guys conditions here just keep getting worse. We are seeing high winds, soaring temperatures, flames like this popping up… (FADE OUT)

Reporter 3: Day after day fire crews brave the front lines in a crisis that still escalates… (FADE OUT)

Reporter 2: These are type of conditions that are concerning firefighters. Now these flames are on either side of this major highway and now they're telling residents that if you haven't evacuated yet, now is the time for sheltering places. (FADE OUT)

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB.

But if you're someone who can't hear lifesaving information could be missed. That's where today's guest steps in. Sean Sweeney works as an interpreter for the Rural Fire Services - the RFS - in New South Wales, the state hardest hit by the fires. During major press conferences and emergency announcements, Sean will stand next to public officials on stage and do live interpretation for deaf people in Auslan, the Australian sign language. The reason he does this work is really personal. Sean was born hearing into a deaf family. And when he was young he struggled to communicate with his dad. It was this that set him on his career path. Work that he sees is essential during emergencies, like the bushfires…

SEAN SWEENEY

It's important simply from an emergency point of view, because they will be receiving the same information as the wider community. If it's being live, and if they've got the interpreter next to them, then they're getting it in their first language.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And have you heard examples of deaf people missing out on this sort of important information?

SEAN SWEENEY

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Look, I got a staff member who was actually down on the South Coast and experienced that exact thing. She was on the far south coast of New South Wales where the bushfires were raging and she got evacuated to an evacuation center and she had no idea what was going on. And she was saying there were all this information being passed around but nothing had actually accommodated for her. And it wasn't until she actually got into her iPad, and there I was on the on the broadcast…

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So she had no idea that there were even bushfires?

SEAN SWEENEY

No, she knew, she could see them in the distance. But she couldn't see why people were panicking and how fast they worked because everything was done via radio. Everything was done via the local TV networks with no interpreters on the channels. And it wasn't until the RFS actually did the national broadcast using social media that she got access to that information.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Was that something that you ever saw with your own family when you're growing up? Them missing out on huge chunks of the news just because it wasn't made accessible for them?

SEAN SWEENEY

Oh, yeah, that was the norm. And deaf people today, they don't get full access to the local newsrooms and radio obviously. My dad used to always say to me as a kid, ‘I'm always the last one to find out!’. And he used to have to wait for the next day's newspaper, and then read through the newspaper to find out what everyone else had found out the night before via the radio or via the TV.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Because you grew up as hearing in a deaf family… How many members of your immediate family are deaf?

SEAN SWEENEY

Well, my immediate family - that was my parents, my grandparents, my great grandparents, I've got aunties, uncles, I've got cousins, I've got second cousins - who are all deaf and sign language in our family was my first language.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So your first words were signed?

SEAN SWEENEY

Well, my first understanding of meaning was used in sign language, yeah. I actually asked mom, I said, ‘What was my actual first sign?’. And she said ‘bottle’. So apparently I asked for the bottle as a very young baby. And that was my first communication. So I could talk to mom and ask her for a bottle as a 12 month old baby.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And everybody spoke Auslan, which is the Australian sign language?

SEAN SWEENEY

That's correct. Yeah. We use Auslan to communicate and get your message across, yeah.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

What I really enjoyed reading about is that there are different dialects in Auslan…

SEAN SWEENEY

That's correct, because you got to remember, Auslan - when it was first established 250 years ago, we had a Scotsman come over and then an Englishman, and they set up the first deaf schools, one in New South Wales and one in Victoria. And they brought their dialects with them. So, we had a northern dialect and a southern dialect here in Australia, which carried on for many, many generations until today, when we got internet and cheap air flights, you know, the Australian community freely moves around the country. So therefore, now the dialects are becoming mixed.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So what sort of words can be confused between the different dialects?

SEAN SWEENEY

(Laughter) This is this is my favourite. We’ve got ‘hungry’ and ‘sexy’.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Oh, wow. So a really big difference on that one! (Laughter)

SEAN SWEENEY

(Laughter) Yeah. The hand shape - for example, if you're saying ‘good’ to somebody you give the thumbs up. So imagine that handshape - you go from the top of the neck to the bottom of the neck towards the chin. That's ‘hungry’ and that's also ‘sexy’. Yes, that's just one good example.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So when you were growing up as part of a deaf family, in what way were you most comfortable communicating? Was it through talking, or was it through signing?

SEAN SWEENEY

I grew up using sign language. So that was just my go-to language. But I would always speak, because as a hearing person speaking is a lot easier. As an adult, I find my vocab and my understanding is a lot better in sign language. And so for example, with my wife who is also an interpreter, she knows that if I'm not sure about the English word, I will ask her, I'll say, ‘Well, what's your interpretation on this?’. And that's sort confirms to me what the actual English word actually means.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And that plays out also, when you and your wife have a disagreement, and then you end up signing if you get really angry? (Laughter)

SEAN SWEENEY

(Laughter) You have done your research!

Yeah, and it's funny because my wife always jokes and she says, ‘Well, I know when Sean gets really angry because he starts signing at me’.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

With your family - I mean, you mentioned that there are different dialects within your family, but with your parents - they actually had different languages?

SEAN SWEENEY

That's right. Yeah, yeah, my dad grew up in Ireland and there they use a one-handed sign language. In Australia, we use a two-handed sign language. So my father as a kid growing up, he would always teach me the Irish sign language, which was completely different to Australian sign language.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Did that make communication with your dad harder?

SEAN SWEENEY

Yes, it did. Because I didn't really understand the true meaning of our sign language and the true meaning of my father.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Did you quite struggle with that?

SEAN SWEENEY

I did struggle with it. We weren't really taught in a structured manner about the actual deaf community and the language itself. We just grew up using it. I didn't really realize that it was a true native language to the deaf community until I became an adult.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Because you ended up cutting yourself off from your family. Why did you do that?

SEAN SWEENEY

I was a typical teenager, I was on a journey trying to work out, trying to work myself out as a hearing person in the family, trying to work out what the difference between my world growing up in the world that I grew up in, in comparison to the wider world. What had happened, I come from a divorced family. So I blamed the divorce between my parents, and I blame their deafness and their sign language for it. And I didn't really realize that it had nothing to do with it. It was just two people that just fell out of love and went their own separate ways. But as a teenager, you're looking for something to blame. So that's what I did. I blamed that and then I just completely… not shut myself off, but I wouldn't make the effort to go and visit them. And it wasn't until like Christmas, for example, that I would catch up with my folks and even then my language was very… it wasn't as effective as it is now because I didn't really understand it back then.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And do you think that that part of your identity, that deaf part of your identity, which is obviously really big, you just sort of shut it down?

SEAN SWEENEY

Yeah, I shut it down because I didn't understand that I actually had an identity.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Why was it that you decided to go back, that you decided to reconnect with your family?

SEAN SWEENEY

As a young man, I went through my 20s. And I split up with my partner at the time and I was soul searching and I couldn't work out what I was doing and where I was going, and I couldn't find the direction I was heading in. And then I ran into an old friend of mine. And she said to me, she goes, wow, why don't you become an interpreter? And I remember looking at her saying, look, but I can't sign. And she looked at me, she went, are you kidding me? And it wasn't until I this communication with this dear friend of mine, who I grew up with, and she had reminded me that, you know, the language I was using was the natural language of the community and the native language and I didn't really understand it until I made the decision to come back and learn to become an interpreter. And then I just went on this incredible journey through my 30s.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And it was also around the same time that you, you really sat down with your dad and you had a big conversation.

SEAN SWEENEY

That's right. Yeah. Yes yes gosh, here I go. This is a real pinching point for me I always getting really emotional because I went on this journey of discovering the language and then I discovered my dad. And that was really important for me because I really didn't have a connection with him throughout my childhood. Sorry I'm just getting a little bit emotional. Talking with my dad just completely filled the hole, the gaps that I had. Once I understood my dad it just… it made me a whole person.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

What sort of things do you think you understood?

SEAN SWEENEY

Oh I understood him for the first time. I used to have superficial conversations with him you know, ‘Dad, how are you getting on’ and ‘Yeah, Manchester United game, they won again, beauty, no worries. Yeah, Alex Ferguson's the best…’. Dad is a fanatical Manchester United supporter. But we never had any sort of in depth conversations. And we never unpacked things and we never talked about things and never share their feelings. For me, it was connecting with my dad. And that's when I realized that I had this beautiful language and I could use it. And I was good at it.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And do you think that it was having that conversation with your dad and really sitting down and connecting for the first time that made you realize why it was so important for you to be an interpreter?

SEAN SWEENEY

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. When I realized that I knew the language and I was good at it. I just went, ‘Wow, I need to share this with the world and I need to make sure that the deaf community gets access to information’. Because my first job as an interpreter was at a local deaf school. And sign language is different at every level at every age group. So you have to really reflect and understand how the language structure works to be able to deliver meaning to a four year old or to a 10 year old or to a 15 year old. And so I basically did what I would call an apprenticeship at a deaf school. Which was really good for me because it gave me the skills and the understanding on how language works. Because delivering it to children, and making sure that they've got meaning and understanding to be able to work from English to Auslan and from Auslan back to English is really important. It was doubly important for me as Sean I had the connection with my family as well as a connection with the community as an interpreter.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And you've described it like a jigsaw puzzle - that when you're deaf you are looking at the world, and there's all of this information and it’s like trying to work out the world?

SEAN SWEENEY

Yeah, that's right. I've always said that deaf people, deaf people look at the world like a jigsaw puzzle, and they use all the tools in their tool belt. They've got hearing aids, they've got cochlear implants, they've got you know, pen and paper, they've got captions, they've got sign language. And deaf people work really, really hard to get that information together. So, as an interpreter, we try our best to deliver meaning and we just have to make sure that we can give them as much as we possibly can.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

When the bushfires did start in the area that you were living in, in Australia, where were you when you got the call asking you to do the job?

SEAN SWEENEY

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Yeah, well I was in my backyard. I've got a little boat, I take it down the south coast and I got fishing and I do all these little water sports with it and I was kicking the trailer and I was kicking the tires and I was checking out the boat making sure everything was in order because the next morning I was getting ready. My wife and I were getting ready to take the boat out. And at the end of the day, I'd finished checking everything off and I just cracked my first beer the day and it was a beautiful afternoon. And then I'll get this phone call. And it's Anthony from the RFS and Anthony goes, ‘Oh Sean’. And I say ‘Good night Anthony, what can I do for you?’. He's like, ‘I need an interpreter tomorrow morning.’ So I just said to Anthony. I said, ‘Mate, I'll just make myself available that way. You got an interpreter for all your broadcast’. And he was like ‘Fantastic. Can you be here tomorrow morning at 6:30.’ And I was like ‘Yep, not a problem at all.’ So I turned up the next morning and did my first broadcast and went from there.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

How did that go down with your family?

SEAN SWEENEY

Well, I remember I was walking up the stairs and I had Anthony on my ear and I was talking to him and my wife was in the kitchen. And she's trying to work out who I was talking to. And I'm going Yep, yep. Yep, I'll see you tomorrow morning. And then she just looked at me and when what I you doing, and she's voicing it, like she’s mouthing it to me. And I'm just putting my hand up going, just hang on, hang on, hang on. Let me just finish this phone call. And I'll hang up the phone. And she went, you're not working, are you? Because we promised each other but we wouldn't work. And I said, I said I can't say no to the fire service. And she's like, Oh, well, that's a no brainer. Of course you got to go do it. The next morning I was you know, up and nice and early. And those on the freeway heading down towards the bush ready to do the broadcast.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Why? Why was it so important for you to be doing that job?

SEAN SWEENEY

Simply - the message to go out to the deaf community. That's why it was important. The deaf people are always glued to the emergency channels because they want to know just like everybody else. Something as dangerous as New South Wales bushfires, they were just mega fires, they were huge. these fires. The deaf community went into a massive panic. And I will worrying that they weren't going to get the information because all it takes is the wrong information. And they could be driving down a road where the fires are and not really knowing that they're there.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And in those sorts of situations, you're having to do simultaneous translations or simultaneous interpreting. How do you do it?

SEAN SWEENEY

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That's a really good question. Because when you're doing simultaneous interpreting, it's quite difficult. The key is to get into preparation before you walk into the job. So for example, when I was working at the bushfires, what I would do is that I would get on the radio in the morning - on the ABC, listen to the radio. I'd look up on Facebook, I'd look at all the social media updates, I’d log into different websites, look at weather maps, look at fire maps, and all would gather as much information as I possibly could. And then when the commissioner would come out with the premier and deliver the message, generally I would have a rough idea of what areas they're going to talk about. And that's how I would deliver it, but doing it simultaneously. It's amazing what the brain can do. It's almost like a three step process, where we listen, store it away, drawn it, deliver it.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And I mean, as you say that the impact of the bush has is absolutely huge, and there are some horrific consequences. And when you are interpreting, you would actually take on the emotions of the person that you were interpreting for.

SEAN SWEENEY

Yeah, as an interpreter, sometimes it can become very overwhelming. I've had jobs where I'll be interpreting away. And then all of a sudden, I find myself you know, having a lump in my throat and I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna start crying, because the presenter is crying and then I start crying and everyone's looking at me go My gosh, the interpreter’s crying, and the deaf people can feel the emotion that's being delivered. And that's what you want. You definitely want to feel that emotion.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Having spent so many years feeling that disconnect between you and your immediate family… What is it like for you being that link between the hearing community and the deaf community?

SEAN SWEENEY

Now, I love it. I absolutely love it. To be able to communicate with him without even using one English word, one verbal word and just get my message across is an amazing skill. And when it's done beautifully – god, it's a beautiful language to work with. It really is. And when I talk to people and they say I wish I could learn and I often say go on to your cell phone on a beginners course. To be able to finger spell your name and introduce yourself to a deaf person - a deaf person would feel such relief within a room of hearing people, when they've got an ally who just walks up and says Hi, how are you? A simple thing as a greeting goes such a long way.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

People say to you that you have a deaf heart. What does that mean?

SEAN SWEENEY

I go away fishing with a whole bunch of deaf friends on the south coast and they always say to me, ‘God, Sean, you just come across so deaf’. And I used to look that them and smile, and they’d always go ‘Mate, you’ve got a deaf heart.’ And I always go ‘Well yeah, I like to think I do because I believe so much in the community and the language and I love it’. And that's what I mean by a deaf heart. When they say a deaf heart, it's more than just, you know, being deaf. It's about the language component side of the community, the cultural side of the community, the identity of the community, and that's why they call me the interpreter with a deaf heart.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And there's a sign for that?

SEAN SWEENEY

Yeah, there is, the boys made up a sign - you got two fingers on the ear and then those two fingers go down to on top of your heart. And that's the sign. It's not in any dictionary. It's just what the boys have made out and it's something that the boys do when we all get together.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Sean Sweeney speaking to me from Sydney. And after 240 days of bushfires, it's just been announced that New South Wales is free from fires at last.

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