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TX date: 03 August听2020

The 25 day sit-in that changed history

PRESENTER: Emily Webb听

GUEST:听Judy Heumann

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Hello. I'm Emily Webb and this is Outlook, bringing you incredible true life stories from all over the world. Thirty years ago, there was a historic legal victory for disabled activists in the US.

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(ARCHIVE) 鈥淚 now lift my pen to sign this Americans With Disability Act and say 鈥淟et the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down. God bless you all!鈥� (clapping)

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

This is the sound of George Bush Senior bringing in the Americans With Disabilities Act. It鈥檚 is hard to overstate how important this piece of legislation was. It made it illegal to discriminate against people with disabilities in all areas of public life - be that jobs, transport, shops, restaurants, essentially anywhere open to the general public. For decades, disabled people had been battling to make it happen and today, we're bringing you the story of one of the leaders of that fight for equality. Throughout her life. Judy Heumann has never put up with the status quo. She once sued the New York Board of Education so that she could pursue her career. She took on an airline company who wouldn't let her travel and in order to get a landmark law enacted, she orchestrated the longest occupation of a federal building in American history. An adviser to not one, but two US presidents. This year when Time magazine dedicated one hundred covers to women who have shaped the world, Judy was there, along with the likes of Michelle Obama and Greta Thunberg. Her ability to turn her rage into real change has earned her a nickname from her husband.

He calls you 鈥� okay I might get the pronunciation wrong here 鈥淐hingona鈥�.

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JUDY HEUMANN

Yes.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

What does that mean?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Basically it means, you have balls, you鈥檙e strong (laughs).听

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Judy is someone who is always out and about. But when I spoke to her. She was in lockdown in Washington DC.

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JUDY HEUMANN

I鈥檓 so going crazy. You know, I love to be working with people and we're kind of like really isolated and I get my inspiration from being able to be with people and think together.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

That's something that started when she was a child.
Judy and her two brothers were raised in a busy working class German-Jewish family in New York.

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JUDY HEUMANN

Not just in New York, but I grew up in Brooklyn and that's very important because we identified by boroughs and of course Brooklyn鈥檚 the best borough!

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(50s music)

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And this was the 1950s. It was one of those neighbourhoods where everybody knew each other. Her dad ran the local butcher shop. Her mum worked part time there and Judy and the other local kids would be in and out of each other's houses.

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JUDY HEUMANN

On our block we didn't have a lot of cars which meant that we would do things in the street. So stick ball and jump rope and many things like that.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

The only difference between Judy and these other kids is that she used a wheelchair because of childhood polio, so her dad built a ramp from their back door, so she could move around freely. Her parents did not believe that her life should be any different to her brothers. They placed more importance on thinking and learning, having opinions and being able to justify them.

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JUDY HEUMANN

If we invited people over my friends would always say afterwards 鈥淗ow come you didn't tell me what your table was like?鈥� (laughs) because I guess people were very used to sitting down and having a meal and having little chitty chatty discussions. That never happened in our house, the table at our house was always heavily engaged in discussions, what was going on politically, analysing things. When my cousin got engaged, he told his fianc茅e 鈥淲hen you come to the house of my uncle, don't ask questions, because if you ask a question and you don't know the answer he will send you to the encyclopaedia and have you write a report鈥� (laughs). So that was our house, you know.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

But outside of the family home, they could not protect Judy from the prejudice of others. Even now in her seventies, there are certain incidents seared into her memory.

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JUDY HEUMANN

My friend and I had left our block and had gone on another block to go to the store and a kid came over to me and he asked me if I was sick and I think that was really the first time that I ever realised that people saw me as different.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And what was that like to have that moment of realisation, what did it feel like?

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JUDY HEUMANN

I felt very upset and I didn't really know how to handle my emotions. I didn't yell at him, but I did say, 鈥淣o鈥�, I wasn't sick. I obviously remember it very vividly, so it had a big impact on me personally.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Up until that day Judy had never questioned why life was different for her, different from the other neighbourhood kids and from her brothers.

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JUDY HEUMANN

All these things that were happening from the most basic of having to get pulled up steps all the time to not being able to go to school, all these things began to make me realise that although my parents had expectations that I would be like by brothers, the system itself did not.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Let鈥檚 take schooling as an example. At that time in New York, there were severe restrictions on the kind of education a child with disabilities could receive and this is when you realise Judy's determination might be an inherited trait because her mum would not take no for an answer.

JUDY HEUMANN

We had an experience with the Jewish day school where my parents were going to try and get me into that school and the principal of the school, I was five, said I didn't know enough Hebrew, so my mother had me tutored. Every day she took me to someone's house who tutored me in Hebrew and then called the principal at the end of the summer and said I could pass whatever test they wanted. And of course she never realised that he had no intention of letting me in the school, so this was kind of an ongoing saga.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Judy would have four years of home schooling before her mum got her into a public school. Even then she had to join a class exclusively for disabled children.

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JUDY HEUMANN

So the school itself was four stories and most of the school had non-disabled children. But in the basement is where the classes for disabled children were. Now we didn't got to lunch with non-disabled kids except for once a week going to what we called an assembly. We were totally segregated.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

What did that feel like at the time, did it feel like you were a second class citizen?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Yeah, I mean at that age you don't use the term second class citizens. But it was quite clear that we were not being treated the same. And then there was a programme, where some of the non-disabled kids would be selected and they could come down to our classes and help push our wheelchairs to the assembly, and so that was like a big deal and I think I began to recognise that those of us who had disabilities, like polio without any speech involvement - whereas some of the other kids in the classes had cerebral palsy and may have had speech disabilities - that the non-disabled kids that came gravitated towards those of us who had more typical speech.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

When it came to education, the teachers didn't expect much of them. But the class did offer a chance to swap stories and for the first time Judy could speak to people who got what it was like to live in a world that didn't make things easy for them. In spite of all of this Judy excelled at school. Her ambition was to become a teacher. But having been told it was unlikely she would get funding as a disabled person, she went to study speech therapy instead. At college she joined a sorority and threw herself into her studies, but she still couldn't make people see past their prejudice.

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JUDY HEUMANN

It was a Friday evening and someone knocked on the door and said - there were three guys and two women - and they were looking for another woman to join the group and did I know anybody. And I remember just looking at this guy and again, the same thing 鈥淎re you sick?鈥� came back into my mind. I didn't cry. I didn't yell. I just said no. But when I closed the door, it was this whole thing again. Clearly, not being seen as someone who could be sexual or that a guy could be interested in and some of these things are really painful to think about even when I'm an adult.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

These experiences started to politicise Judy. When she saw discrimination on campus, she and other disabled students came together to fight it. She ran for Student Council and won. It was all great training for her next challenge. You see that dream of becoming a teacher had never died so when it was announced that the Board of Education would allow students with non-teaching degrees to apply for jobs Judy knew that this was her opportunity. First, she had to pass a medical.

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JUDY HEUMANN

A medical exam was honestly one of the most bizarre experiences I've had in my entire life. I don't wanna be ageist but this woman happened to be older. She really had an issue around disability. She asked me a question like 鈥淐ould I show her how I went to the bathroom?鈥�. Honestly at the age of 21, 22 I was completely speechless. And I was thinking, who is ever gonna believe me that this is a question that someone asked me. And then she in discussion found out that I used to use crutches and braces, because I did until I had my surgery and she wanted me to wear my braces and show her how I could walk and I came back for a second exam. She asked me where were where my braces and crutches were. And I said I didn't bring them and so she wrote down on the paper 鈥榠nsubordinate鈥�. Bottom line is I didn't get my teaching license.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And Judy was never going to leave things there.

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JUDY HEUMANN

So I didn't automatically think I'm gonna sue because I was really worried. What if I got the teaching license, but I didn't do a good job, was that going to be a bad mark for disabled individuals, because while non-disabled people fail at things all the time and nobody thinks 鈥業'm not going to hire another disabled person鈥� - in the area of disability, when it comes to employment - you'll hear this all around the world - that if you hire someone with a disability and they don't do a good job, that frequently they'll think that 鈥業 can't handle any more of 鈥榯hem鈥欌��. And it happened kind of serendipitously. What happened was, a friend of mine was doing work with the New York Times, he had a disability, and he spoke to a reporter who did a really good story in the New York Times about my being denied my job. And the next day The New York Times did an editorial. Something like 鈥楬eumann vs the Board of Education鈥�. And that same day I got a call from a civil rights lawyer and I asked him if he would represent me and he said yes. And the next day a customer in my father's store came in and said he would represent me. So I had a team of lawyers that were going to provide services for free. Then I was invited on a major national television programme and for about a year there were stories in all the major newspapers in New York, and other parts of the country.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

This was her first taste of high profile activism and ultimately victory. Although it was settled out of court, at 22 Judy Heumann became the first wheelchair user to teach in New York City.听

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JUDY HEUMANN

I mean, I felt and feel that you get to a point where you just aren't going to say yes again, where you really have to take a position.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Now remember when this episode took place. The sixties and seventies were a remarkable era of protest in American history.

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(ARCHIVE) (I鈥檓 Black and I鈥檓 Proud music) 鈥淲e have to talk about the struggle of Black people. Not only in the United States, but in the world today.鈥� 鈥淏lack Power!鈥�

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

In the years after the Civil Rights Act had officially ended segregation, for African Americans other movements were emerging. Gay rights, anti-war, women's liberation. People were heading to the streets and demanding change.

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(ARCHIVE) (chanting) 鈥淎 thousand protesters demonstrated on campus before marching down Broadway to the veteran's administration building on 25th Street.鈥� 鈥淚 think a lot of people in that organisation are out and out fascist, that they support the bombing. Our main aim of course is equal rights. Equal rights to have a job, to have respect and not be viewed as a piece of meat.鈥�

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

It was against this backdrop that Judy formed an organisation called Disabled in Action. Their activism soon focused in on a proposed piece of legislation called the Rehabilitation Act. Its purpose was to support disabled citizens through funding for rehab, but buried in the text was a clause that had the power to change those people's lives beyond recognition.

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JUDY HEUMANN

Section 504 made it illegal to discriminate against a disabled person if the programme received money from the federal government. It was what we really honed in on.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Because this could potentially be huge for disabled people in the USA.

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JUDY HEUMANN

Exactly. It was a very important provision, because it would mean for example, that you could not discriminate against someone with a disability in preschool, in elementary school, in high school, at universities, in hospitals, in government. Any entity that got one penny of federal money would not be able to discriminate and if in fact discrimination occurred, you would have a remedy. You could go to court. You can file a complaint.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So when the legislation was first proposed the President at the time, Richard Nixon vetoed it. And he was standing for re-election. So what you decided to do is you decided to organise a protest. So you went to his campaign headquarters on Madison Avenue in New York. Can you describe that street to me and what you did there?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Yes, so when the demonstrations originally started we had selected an area in Manhattan that was devoid of cars. We were there and nobody was saying anything or doing anything. The police just wanted us away. So I went over and I said to one of the officers, you know, we were talking and he said, 鈥淲hat are you want, we would like you to leave鈥� and I said 鈥淲here is Nixon headquarters and he called in and he asked where Nixon headquarters was and told us it was on Madison Avenue. And about fifty of us left and got over to Madison Avenue.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

There's footage of that protest, where campaigners in wheelchairs on crutches, maybe in braces or with Guide Dogs block four streets of traffic and bring the area to a standstill.

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JUDY HEUMANN

It was an amazing experience, because, really we all decided at that moment that we were not going to let this opportunity go by. We'd got in to this city with all the inaccessibility and we wanted people that understand what was happening. So we shut down the street. And we were out there for a while, I guess like an hour. Then we decided we're going to go into Nixon headquarters so we went in to Nixon headquarters and we took over the offices. It was four days before the election.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

The New York Police Department's role in this is interesting. They could have removed the protesters or just not told them where Nixon HQ was.

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JUDY HEUMANN

The police that day were really very friendly. Obviously, we were completely disrupting the city. But it turned out that there had been a number of shootings of police officers and some of the police officers who were with us were involved with helping their friends get to physical therapy or they really understood things that we were talking about. So they were actually in their own quiet way, supportive of what we were doing. And that was also very telling to realise that disability really does impact everybody.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

The Rehabilitation Act was signed into law. But that crucial clause 504 which would have made discrimination costly and damaging for public organisations was not enforced. In spite of this. Judy and her activism caught the attention of a group in Berkeley, California.

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JUDY HEUMANN

I had a call from someone named Ed Roberts who I did not know at that time, but who he was a leader in their disability movement and he called me and said 鈥淚'd been looking for people who could come out to Berkeley. We've also just set up this programme, organisation called the Centre for Independent Living and I've heard from people that you really like a kick ass person.鈥� I never, ever had thought about leaving New York, but it seemed like a very interesting opportunity to go to Berkeley and my parents agreed and I called a friend who was willing to move to California and we did.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And how was that? I mean my preconceptions of 1970s California are pretty wild. What with the parties like?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Honestly I've never been a big party person (laughs). A lot of my friends smoked pot and I'm very sensitive to medication, so I had a good friend in the way I would, when I would smoke weed, he would take a toke, and he would tell me, 鈥渙kay, you can have a toke鈥� or 鈥渢wo tokes鈥� or 鈥測ou can't have a full toke because it's strong鈥�. I was too much out of control, I'm a complete control freak. What was very important for me was previously we had to depend on our families to help us get up and go to the bathroom and go to bed and do things like that and here there was a system in place where the Centre for Independent Living, there were names of people that you would get to interview who you could hire, who would come and get you up when you needed to get up, help you go to bed when you needed to go to bed as opposed to working around other people鈥檚 schedules. So that level of freedom was鈥� it was very different. It was very liberating. It was easier to have fun.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

But Judy's experience was dampened by the realisation that this fun was restricted to a tiny minority of disabled people. Four years had passed since the Rehabilitation Act were signed in but Section 504 was still not being enforced. So if you were disabled and you were being discriminated against it was incredibly hard to fight back. Examples of this dogged Judy, like the time she was doing some work for Senator in Washington DC.

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JUDY HEUMANN

One of the issues that we were working on in the Senator's office were proposed rules that would have restricted disabled people being able to fly, if we were unable to get off a plane by ourselves. And I was responsible for reading these proposed rules and commenting on them. So I flew to New York by myself when I went to fly back, they told me first I couldn't fly unattended. After speaking to two or three different managers they let me on the plane. I was on the plane and then a stewardess came over and said to me the captain said I couldn't fly without an assistant. I asked the gentleman sitting next to me if he would act as my assistant in case of an emergency and he very kindly said yes. And I said no. And the captain came back and said I wasn't going to be able to stay on the plane. The bottom line was they called the police. They arrested me. They took me off the plane. They asked me for ID. I had two pieces of ID, a credit card and my senate pass. So I gave them my credit card. And they said 鈥渘o, this isn鈥檛 good鈥�. Then I gave them my US senate badge and they said, 鈥淲ho do you work for?鈥�. I told them Senator Harrison Williams and so they were New York, New Jersey police officers and they knew exactly who this senator was because he was the senior senator from the state. And then they dropped the charges. But I did call a friend of mine who worked for a newspaper, we did make the front page of the Daily News, and I did sue. I think ultimately what has always been important is when things like this happen little or a larger, I just, I can't let them go because I get really angry.

听

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Judy knew that Section 504 had the potential to be ground breaking for disabled people. But four years had passed since the signing of the Rehabilitation Act, and there was no progress on the crucial clause. Then, a moment of hope.

听

(ARCHIVE) 鈥溾�� my ability鈥� 鈥溾�� and will to the best of my ability鈥� 鈥溾��preserve, protect and defend鈥� 鈥溾��preserve, protect and defend鈥� 鈥溾��the constitution of the United States鈥� 鈥溾��the constitution of the United States鈥� 鈥溾��so help me God.鈥� 鈥溾��so help me God.鈥� 鈥淚 congratulate you鈥� (crowds cheer).

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Jimmy Carter became the new US President. This felt like a moment of optimism for Judy and her fellow activists. During his campaign Carter had promised to enforce the legislation and it looked like victory was within reach. But things didn't go to plan. President Carter appointed Joseph Califano, as his Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare who rather than signing off Section 504 straight away said he needed more time.

听

(ARCHIVE) 鈥淲hen Califano appeared he praised their cause but said there problems such as enforcement. However, he promised action.鈥� 鈥淚 will sign the set of 504 regulations by early May.鈥� (angry shouting)

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JUDY HEUMANN

We were very, very concerned that they were going to make drastic changes to the rules, that we had been fighting very hard for many years to get the rules where they were and they were a compromise already. And we just decided that we couldn't allow that to happen. So we said, if the regulations were not signed by a certain day there would be demonstrations around the country in nine or ten cities.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

The deadline came and went so on April 5th 1997, Judy alongside hundreds of protesters gathered outside the local Health, Education and Welfare building in San Francisco. And that soon mushroomed. Before long, journalists were stationed outside the building and some of the language used in their reports may be considered offensive.

听

(ARCHIVE) (singing in the background) 鈥淚t all started this morning here at the old Federal Building 鈥� when an incident took place outside. Immediately after that demonstration this morning, the handicapped started invading the building. It's the old federal building which is now the HEW headquarters.

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

So what did you do?

听

JUDY HEUMANN

We went in to meet with the regional minister to talk about this Section 504 and what was really astonishing to me and to others was that he was completely unprepared. So we went into his office and said 鈥淭ell us what's going on鈥� and he not only didn't know what was going on, but he didn't know what Section 504 was. And so there were a lot of people in his office and in the building at this point. When we saw that he and his staff knew nothing about what was going on we decided, we've got to see if we can get people to stay because if we leave we will never be able to get back in. So that's what happened.

(ARCHIVE) (chanting 鈥�504鈥� 504鈥�) 鈥淚 just got word these people are now locked in to the building. At 6 o鈥檆lock this building did close down. However about a half hour ago, they came up with an agreement. None of these people are going to be arrested or moved out鈥︹��

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

When Judy says get people to stay she doesn't mean for a few hours. This was the beginning of an occupation that would go down in history.

听

(ARCHIVE) 鈥淲hat about the rest room facilities and that sort of thing there. Are they equipped to handle that many handicapped people and could they get that help?鈥� 鈥淭hey absolutely are not equipped to handle them. The regional director asked before 4 o鈥檆lock if he could try to get out of this room because he needed to go to the restroom, and the group here said no, we have had to learn all of our lives to control our bladders and you must learn that lesson鈥︹��

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

The people who you were asking to do the sit in, they had very complex and varied needs. They were basically going to be going into an office, there were no beds. Did that feel like quite a huge responsibility for you?

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JUDY HEUMANN

You know quite frankly, we were all adults and so it was a responsibility for all of us. Everyone who stayed in that building was there because they were fighting for something they believed in.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

150 people agreed to stay in the building for as long as it took to get the outcome they wanted. San Francisco wasn't the only place these protests were happening. A group in the capital had also taken over a government building, but were forced out after one night. So it was now up to Judy and her fellow activists to keep the pressure on. As the days began to pass, phone lines were cut by the authorities to prevent the activists communicating. There were no showers, beds, but people's ingenuity soon took over. Didn't somebody craft a fridge from an air conditioning unit?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Yeah, I mean, you had 150 people with all kinds of skills. Communication was difficult and what we realised was that we had a number of deaf people in the building. There were deaf people outside the building and so we had communication going on inside, outside, so we had interpreters also. That was one of the ways that we were able to communicate.

听

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Obviously, this was taking place in a huge time of civil activism. I mean, looking at organisations for African American rights for gay rights and is it true that your meals got brought to you by the Black Panthers and a shelter for lesbian women down the road came in and washed your hair?

听

JUDY HEUMANN

So remember that the disability community is made up of all these different segments, so people know each other and yes, somebody was a nurse and was a lesbian and brought in hoses that could be hooked onto the sinks in the bathrooms for people to wash their hair. We had food that was coming in every day. We had people who were there who, if somebody gets sick, we had medical people who were there who came from another volunteer organisation. It was a phenomenal experience. Most importantly, because disabled people really took pride in what we were doing.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

This was also a group of young people who raced their wheelchairs and the halls, they had sing songs and they felt like they were changing the world.

听

(ARCHIVE) (uplifting singing) 鈥淭hey are tired, they鈥檙e grubby, they're uncomfortable, but their spirits are soaring. The sit in at San Francisco's HEW headquarters, now is in its third day and 125 disabled and handicapped are pledging they'll continue their sit in through tomorrow night. If not longer. The squeeze is on though, hot water has been turned off on the 4th floor where the occupation army of cripples has taken over.鈥�

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

There's a quote from one of the activists who took part in that sit in. He said 鈥榳hen you can't live independently you don't get many chances to rebel.鈥� This was a group of people who were often ignored or patronised being listened to at last. When days became weeks, The Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare Joseph Califano also started paying attention. He was the person with the power to sign in the regulations and someone from his office was dispatched to see the activists. This is from a news report by a journalist outside the building.

听

(ARCHIVE) 鈥淲ith one unified voice, the disabled of California have said 鈥榳e have waited long enough鈥�. And with that the rally outside the old federal building which houses the HEW offices reached a climax. The physical support was impressive and offered the mental and vocal backing that those inside really needed. It is nearing two weeks now since 150 handicapped people moved into the HEW offices and it was today in response to that occupation that a special congressional hearing convened.鈥�

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Inside Califano鈥檚 representative faced the protesters. And when it was Judy's turn to speak, she didn't waste a single word.

听

(ARCHIVE of JUDY HEUMANN, audibly emotional)听 鈥淭he harassment鈥� the lack of equity that has been provided for disabled individuals and that now is even being discussed by the administration is so intolerable that I can鈥檛 quite put it into words. I can tell you that every time you raise issues of separate but equal the outrage of disabled individuals across country is going to continue, it is going to be ignited. There will be more takeovers of buildings until finally maybe you begin to understand our position. We will no longer allow the government to oppress disabled individuals. We want the law enforced. We want no more segregation. We will accept no more discussion of segregation. And I would appreciate it you would stop shaking your head in agreement when I don't think you understand what we are talking about! (tears up)鈥� (clapping).

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And why did you get so emotional?

听

JUDY HEUMANN

Because the gentleman who came from the secretary's office, he didn't speak really. He, I felt that he was just nodding his head because he didn't know what else to do. And I was very emotional about it because I think it was a real glaring point that when people don't know what to do frequently or don't understand, they don't necessarily ask a question. It's very interesting that this part of this film has been shown in many countries around the world and every time I'm in a room watching the film with others, people always applaud at that one part and I think what they're applauding for is speaking up when you know that something is wrong. I think that's really what it's about, it鈥檚 saying something immediately and calling someone on it.

听

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

You decided to send a delegation from the sit in to Washington DC to try to speak directly to the Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, this man Joseph Califano. Quite a lot of time had passed by this point. Were there moments where you thought it had been a failure?

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JUDY HEUMANN

We actually in the Bay area never felt that we were a failure, because at the very, very minimum, we were really forming a closer knit group of people. So people were getting tired, we didn't know what would happen, but I personally, felt like what we were doing was going to achieve something.

听

PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

When Judy and her fellow activists reached Washington, they were determined to meet with Califano. They went to his office and were barred entry, so they began ramming their wheelchairs into the wall of the building and security guards came out and started holding their chairs. They were exhausted and discussing what to do next when a journalist approached them.

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JUDY HEUMANN

I was in a bar, I had stopped smoking and I started smoking again. We learned that the regulations had been signed.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Just like that. It had been nearly a month since they've taken over the government building in San Francisco, but years since their campaign had started. This was a landmark day for disabled people in the USA and here's one of Judy's co-organisers addressing the crowd that gathered back in San Francisco.

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(ARCHIVE) (Cheering) 鈥淚 am so 鈥榡ubilous鈥� and so ecstatic!! I feel like a 鈥� fool because I just can鈥檛 stop smiling!!! And that little line just keeps going through my head鈥� WE WON! WE WON! WE WON!鈥� (victorious applaud and cheering).

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JUDY HEUMANN

The power and the joy that people felt when they left that building, you can just see it. It's palpable. People felt victorious. People felt that what they had done was worth it. They really saw that we got exactly what we wanted.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

And I've heard that at the end of the sit in people didn't actually want to leave.

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JUDY HEUMANN

There was a community that was being formed. And when you live together you really get to know people in a different way, and one of the issues for leaving was, it wasn't going to be the same. And these relationships were going to change. This group of what one could have defined as a ragtag group of people really made an amazing difference.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

At 25 days, the sit in is still the longest occupation of a federal building in the history of the United States and those regulations paved the way for further victories. Judy's profile as a leader of the movement caught the attention of the people making the decisions. She was invited to join the Clinton administration as an adviser on education and she later served under Obama. You spent so many years being this thorn in the side of administrations, how was it being on the inside?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Taking those jobs was really something that I knew would be challenging. Working primarily with disabled people where we were creating the agendas and working to get things advanced. It wasn't going to be that way when I went to Washington and so I had to really prepare myself and then I think on a day to day basis I felt very vulnerable, exposed, that I needed to be able to learn how to maintain being a strong advocate, but on the other hand I also needed to figure out the people I was working with them, and how to get them to listen to and understand what we were trying to do. I feel like I was pretty successful in doing that, and also bringing other disabled people into work that we were doing.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

What do you think your parents made of your success and how much of it did they see?

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JUDY HEUMANN

Yes so my father died in 1992 in the spring and my Mom died in 1998. My mother was very proud. My father would have been very proud. My mother came to the signing at the White House of this major piece of legislation, she met the president and yeh she always felt very proud of work that I did. And yeh I feel proud of her and of my father.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

When you got that job and you were working around disabled children's education, did you think of your mum standing on the school steps and trying so hard to get you your education?

JUDY HEUMANN

I do a lot of public speaking and when I talk to parents I tell people how important it was for me that my parents, my mother in particular, really fought for me. She would have these spurts kind of like I do, you know where something would happen and she would go for it. I mean, really this issue of getting the Board of Education to make some of the high schools accessible was a really big deal.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

It does sound like there are a lot of similarities between you and your mum.

JUDY HEUMANN

Yes, definitely.

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PRESENTER EMILY WEBB

Judy Heumann speaking to me from her home in Washington DC. Her book is called Being Heumann: An Unrepetant Memoir of a Disability Rights Activist.

The archive you heard was from The Disability Rights Education and Defence Fund. There's a photo of Judy on the 大象传媒 Outlook Facebook page... any comments you can leave them there or email us at outlook@bbc.com.

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