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´óÏó´«Ã½ Radio 4 In Touch |
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Listen to this programmeFactsheet of this programmeTranscript of this programme Print this page FactsheetPASSPORT TROUBLESDawn Hartgen and her family should be on holiday this month; and they would be, if the large print application form, advertised as available by the passport office and which she applied for in January. But, as Dawn explains to Peter it didn’t. Bernard Herdan, Executive Director at the Identity and Passport Service. Also joins Peter to explain exactly what the Passport Service does and doesn’t offer for visually impaired people. CONTACTS The United Kingdom Identity and Passport Service 24-hour Passport Adviceline 0870 521 0410 Copies of guidance notes to help in completing application forms and other information leaflets are available in:
Information for the blind or visually impaired Applying by phone If you would like to fill in the application form over the phone, you can do so by calling our form-filling service for visually impaired customers on 0800 138 8808. A member of our staff will fill in the form using information you provide and post it to you to check, sign and return with the relevent documents, payment and photographs. Applying online If you would prefer to complete an application form online, you can do so using our . The information you provide will be prepopulated on a paper form. The completed form will be posted to you to check, sign and return with the relevant documents, payment and photographs. Braille passport stickers We can supply a Braille identifying sticker for your new passport – there is space to request this in section 1 of the passport application form. If you would like a sticker for your current passport, please call the 24-hour Passport Adviceline 0870 521 0410 ACCESSING BOOKS Prompted by an item last week on the battle going on in the US to secure funding to digitalise audio-books held by the Library of Congress listener Dr. Fred Reid, contacted us to say he thought the line we took was unrealistic. He tells Peter about the ease of scanning books. CONTACTS Jaws Screen reader The developers of Jaws, updates for the system can also be downloaded from this site. Authorized distributors Blazie Engineering, LTD Canada House 272 Field End Road Eastcote Middlesex HA4 9NA Phone: 020.8582.0450 Website: Email: barry.webb@blazie.co.uk Sight & Sound Technology Qantel House, Anglia Way Moulton Park Northampton, NN3 6JA Phone: 01604-798070 Website: www.sightandsound.co.uk ROYAL CHELSEA FLOWER SHOW How does the ‘Greatest flower show on earth’, as it is known by some, appeal to the blind or visually impaired? Our reporter Mani Djazmi reports from the show with occasional contributor Sue Arnold. CONTACTS The Royal Horticultural Chelsea Flower Show The Chelsea Physic Garden (Mentioned by Sue Arnold) 66 Royal Hospital Road Chelsea London SW3 4HS Tel: 020 7352 5646 GENERAL CONTACTS RNIB 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They not only provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, but imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. HENSHAWS SOCIETY FOR BLIND PEOPLE (HSBP) John Derby House 88-92 Talbot Road Old Trafford Manchester M16 0GS Tel: 0161 872 1234 Email: info@hsbp.co.uk Web: Henshaws provides a wide range of services for people who have sight difficulties. They aim to enable visually impaired people of all ages to maximise their independence and enjoy a high quality of life. They have centres in: Harrogate, Knaresborough, Liverpool, Llandudno, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Salford, Southport and Trafford. THE GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND ASSOCIATION (GDBA) Burghfield Common Reading RG7 3YG Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@guidedogs.org.uk Web: The GDBA’s mission is to provide guide dogs, mobility and other rehabilitation services that meet the needs of blind and partially sighted people. ACTION FOR BLIND PEOPLE 14-16 Verney Road London SE16 3DZ Tel: 0800 915 4666 (info & advice) Web: Registered charity with national cover that provides practical support in the areas of housing, holidays, information, employment and training, cash grants and welfare rights for blind and partially-sighted people. Leaflets and booklets are available. NATIONAL LEAGUE OF THE BLIND AND DISABLED Central Office Swinton House 324 Grays Inn Road London WC1X 8DD Tel: 020 7837 6103 Textphone: 020 7837 6103 National League of the Blind and Disabled is a registered trade union and is involved in all issues regarding the employment of blind and disabled people in the UK. NATIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND (NLB) RNIB Customer Services on 0845 762 6843 Email: cservices@rnib.org.uk Web: The NLB is a registered charity which helps visually impaired people throughout the country continue to enjoy the same access to the world of reading as people who are fully sighted. Trustees from the Royal National Institute of the Blind (RNIB) and the National Library for the Blind (NLB) have agreed to merge the library services of both charities as of 1 January 2007, creating the new RNIB National Library Service. EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION DISABILITY HELPLINE (England) FREEPOST MID02164 Stratford upon Avon CV37 9BR Tel: 08457 622 633 Textphone: 08457 622 644 Fax: 08457 778 878 Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 9:00 am-5:00 pm; Wed 8:00 am-8:00 pm. Enquiry: englandhelpline2@equalityhumanrights.com Equality and Human Rights Commission Helpline Wales Freepost RRLR-UEYB-UYZL 1st Floor 3 Callaghan Square Cardiff CF10 5BT 0845 604 8810 - Wales main number 0845 604 8820 - Wales textphone 0845 604 8830 - Wales fax 9:00 am-5:00 pm, Monday to Friday (an out-of-hours service will start running soon) Enquiry: waleshelpline@equalityhumanrights.com Equality and Human Rights Commission Helpline Scotland Freepost RRLL-GYLB-UJTA The Optima Building 58 Robertson Street Glasgow G2 8DU 0845 604 5510 - Scotland Main 0845 604 5520 - Scotland Textphone 0845 604 5530 - Scotland – Fax 9:00 am-5:00 pm, Monday to Friday (an out-of-hours service will start running soon) Enquiry: scotlandhelpline@equalityhumanrights.com DISABLED LIVING FOUNDATION 380-384 Harrow Road London W9 2HU Tel: 0845 130 9177 Web: The Disabled Living Foundation provide information and advice on disability equipment. The ´óÏó´«Ã½ is not responsible for external websites General contacts Back to top TranscriptIN TOUCHTX: 20.05.08 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: KATHLEEN GRIFFIN White Good Evening. Well do they, or don't they? We report today on the struggles of one woman to fill in her family's passport application in large print, as she was promised she could! Is the campaign for accessible books unrealistic; and just what can the visually-impaired visitor get from the Chelsea Flower Show Clip Since my eyesight has decreased I really need bigger, brighter more in your face stuff. This looks like a pick 'n' mix sweet department in Woolworth's, brilliant colours of red, pink, white, yellow, mauve and they're sweet peas and that's my kind of garden colour - nothing wishy washy or subtle. White Sue Arnold, always guaranteed not to be wishy washy, more from her later in the programme. But first: Dawn Hartgen and her family should have been on holiday this month; and they would be, if the large print application form, advertised as available by the passport office and which she applied for last January, had arrived in anything like reasonable time. But it didn't, and Dawn Hartgen, who is a committed campaigner for accessible information, joins us on the line from St. Helen's. Dawn, just explain what happened when you did apply? Hartgen Well the first thing I did I went to the Post Office and they informed me that large print application forms were available. So I thought great. When I went to the Post Office they told me they hadn't got them, so to phone this number, which I did. I was then passed on to another number where it was a dedicated telephone line. I phoned that number up and was promised that the passport forms would go out in large print. Waited about six weeks and to no avail. I phoned back, they said oh yeah, sorry about that, it hasn't been entered on to the PC properly but I'll do it again now. Waited another couple of weeks, still no passport forms, phoned them up again. I was then informed that again the information hadn't been entered properly and that one of the team leaders would get on with it that afternoon. Waited another three or four weeks, still no passport form, so I phoned yet again. White In the meantime what was happening about your holiday? Hartgen Well obviously the time was getting closer and closer and closer. And obviously one of the passports has actually expired now and this is why I started getting on the back. Anyway eventually I was told that oh yes we're very sorry there's obviously a problem we'll get more sent out. Being reassured all the time that more were going to be sent. The last occasion when I phoned I spoke to one of the team leaders who informed me that actually they'd been sent on 1st and 23rd April, clearly they hadn't. White So what happened in the end Dawn? Hartgen Well I did get the forms and I got some very nicely printed large print, I must say, information, fact sheets and what have you and I got an apologetic letter. But unfortunately the apologetic letter was in very small print. White So - and what about the form itself? Hartgen The form itself was in standard print but as I said the information - all the guidelines and the instructions - were all in large print. White Well listening to that is Bernard Herdan, who's Executive Director at the Identity and Passport service. Bernard, it's not good enough is it? Herdan No it's not, I really must apologise to Mrs Hartgen for the poor service she's had from our contact centre and from our organisation, it's clearly completely unacceptable to have all that delay and all the confusion that's obviously taken place in the process. White Why has it happened? Herdan Hard to explain why there's been such mishandling of her request but if I could perhaps turn to the substance of what we actually do and don't do for the visually-impaired. We used to print a large print application form but that was discontinued quite some time ago because there was such little take up for it and we thought actually that we would do better to provide a service over the phone, which is what we now do. White Although my producer was told last week that that form was still available and it could be available to someone in a fortnight. Herdan No it's not available. What's available, as Mrs Hartgen quite rightly said, is the accompanying notes in large print on how to fill in the form. But the service we provide is a free phone number where visually-impaired customers can use our form filling service. So we populate the form for them based on a phone call which is an arrangement we agreed with - in consultation with RNIB at the end of 2005. White But clearly a lot of your staff don't know that and are giving people like Dawn Hartgen false information. Herdan That's correct and that's where we're clearly not as well organised as we should be and it's something that clearly having had this drawn to our attention we will make sure this gets dealt with. White Dawn Hartgen, what would you like to say to Bernard, I mean clearly you want a large print form so that you can do it yourself, is a help line adequate? Hartgen Not really no because I still am going to need assistance to be able to sign the box properly because they're very strict about signing this box very particu - you're not allowed to go outside the lines and it'll be rejected. White And of course it's quite... Hartgen So obviously it's still got to sign the form. White And Bernard Herdan, any chance that you though might consider this, given what Dawn has said about the fact that really she would rather - and she has the sight to fill in a large print form - she'd rather do it herself? Herdan I will look into the possibilities. I think the possibility might be that we print out the populated form on an enlarged scale. The actual form that we scan, it's a problem for us to use an oversized form, if you like, for the actual scanning process because that's all - you know we're all prisoners of the computers these days aren't we and that's all put through the computer, so that may not be so straightforward but we could look at ways to deal with the problem she just mentioned about the populated form being small print. White But the real point perhaps is will you be doing anything to make sure that your staff know what service you actually do provide? Herdan Oh you bet we will, you bet we will. That's certainly unacceptable and that's about training for the people that take the calls and training for those that handle the stock of stationery, that's clearly where we've let Mrs Hartgen down. White So obviously a lot of work to be done Mr Herdan. Herdan Yes, this brings out a few issues that have cropped up here, of course it isn't an everyday experience of course but it is something that is unacceptable that we should have that kind of thing happen to us. White Dawn Hartgen, Bernard Herdan, thank you both very much indeed. Now last week we described the battle going on in the United States to secure funding from the Library of Congress so that it can digitalise its collection of audio books using the most up-to-date technology. It raised the whole issue of just how seriously blind and partially-sighted people's right to read is being taken on either side of the pond really. And we compared the situation in Britain where the digitalisation programme is going ahead well, but from a base of far fewer books than available in the States, and we raised again the question of how far we were from making all books available, not simply the three or four per cent accessible to most readers. One listener, though, academic historian Dr. Fred Reid, thought the line we took was unrealistic, and he joins me on the phone. Fred, why? Reid Well I think it's unimaginable that the amount of resources that need to be mobilised to make all books available is likely to come in any foreseeable kind of timescale that could be meaningful to you or me Peter. But more importantly than that, what prompted me to contact you was that I've been using an optical character recognition scanner to do my reading now for the last 12-18 years and I have access to hundreds of books, I mean I have an information burden rather than an information famine, which I used to have. And it seems to me that the piece you did kind of obscured this very hopeful development in technology. I'm not saying it's a universal panacea but it certainly has opened up a huge world of information to me. White And you're talking about the technique which I know about of course and use myself where you can actually scan a book and then read it either in synthetic speech or Braille, whichever format you want to. Reid ... the time and resources to do that you could Braille it out. Yes I listen to it with my Jaws screenreader on the computer. White Of course, I mean I take the point that you make that with the right technology and the right knowledge you can now get access to a large number of books but you do need the knowledge, you do need the technology, the point I want to put to you isn't it a bit like expecting people to go into Waterstones and print their own copy of the book they want, that's the equivalent isn't it? Reid ... recognise that analogy, I'll tell you what I do, in many cases I'll go round to the bookshop round the corner and I'll order the book or buy it off the shelf or order it if it's not in, I come back, I place it on my scanner and I start from page one and as I'm listening to it I scan ahead, so I don't have to scan the whole book and then listen to it, I listen to it simultaneously with scanning and I've literally read hundreds of books in that way. White But aren't we entitled to expect something perhaps a bit more sophisticated, in the sense of cooperation both from the government, in financial terms, and perhaps in the publishers in making books more available for all? After all they do have, don't they, nowadays, the discs for these books and yet it seems beyond the wit of almost all the people involved to make this possible? Reid Theoretically yes, that should be possible but it's taking such a long time to get there and I just want - my basic purpose in contacting you, I wanted to give people some hope because I mean I recently spoke to a friend of mine who's been blind as long as I have, which was more than 50 years, and it had never occurred to him that he could read in this way and he was intrigued and said he would start looking into it right away. I think a lot of people who could benefit from developing the skills that I'm talking about it's probably never been brought home forcibly to them that this is a very, very good solution. White Dr. Fred Reid, thank you very much indeed. Now: what is generally regarded by those in the know as the "greatest flower show on earth" got underway yesterday with a visit from the Queen. The Chelsea Flower Show is a festival of horticulture, featuring over 600 exhibitors, including 22 small gardens. So lots of colour. But how much of a sensual experience is it really especially for visually-impaired people? Mani Djazmi, who's totally blind, met up with regular In Touch contributor and Chelsea-goer Sue Arnold, who's partially-sighted, to find out just how visually impaired-friendly it really is. And Sue began by telling Mani about her own most unusual approach to planting. Arnold I can't see certain things, I can't see subtle colours - I can't see blue and purple and indigo. I can red and orange and bright things like that. My mum had a mini, a yellow mini, which was rusting and I had this idea I'd turn it into the biggest flowerpot in the world. So we took out the engine, filled it with earth, cut out the roof, opened the bonnet, opened the boot, planted it with wonderful things - bright yellow flowers, smelly flowers, there's some sage I think, some dill in there - and it's all crawling out of the windows. And at the back there's a big fern which looks a bit like somebody sitting there with a green punk hairstyle, it's just so beautiful, I can't tell you. But I come to Chelsea a lot as a journalist but since my eyesight has decreased I really need bigger brighter more in your face stuff. That's why I'm here this year and so shall we just see what we can see? Djazmi Well Sue and I have come into a scented rose garden with David Austin roses and we're here with Susan who's marketing manager. The first thing that strikes both of us, Susan, is that there isn't much of a smell here, I mean you can tell that you're amongst flowers but it's not as strong as I would have thought. Susan It's not overpowering, I mean most rose fragrances are diffusive, which means that they aren't carried too far by the wind, they need to be savoured really by actually putting your nose in each bloom. Arnold But I stuck my nose into Winchester Cathedral and couldn't smell anything, not a thing. Susan Well I think that would be perhaps a bit unusual, it is very, very cold in here as our handshake just confirmed and actually a warmth brings out the fragrance of any rose and you might find that a rose that isn't fragrant in the morning is beautifully fragrant in the afternoon. But obviously we perhaps need a little bit more heat in here to really bring the fragrance out. Arnold Can you take us to a really smelly one? Susan Yes we'll take you to Gertrude Jekyll, which is England's favourite rose. It's actually this way. Arnold Gertrude Jekyll was the favoured garden designer. Gertrude Jekyll worked with the architect Lutyens and if you had a Jekyll garden in a Lutyens house you were in the money. Susan Okay, so if you want to bend down and try this one here. Beautiful pink fully opened blooms. Djazmi I once tried smelling a rose when I was about 10 years old and got stung on the nose by a bee. Susan Well there's no bee, I can guarantee there's no bee, the only trouble is with every rose there could be the odd thorn but I think that they get me as well. Arnold What do you think Mani? Djazmi It's - well it's not that smelly, I must say, have you had a sniff Sue? Arnold I can actually see this, it's very, very pink and beautiful. It's faint, I've smelt stronger ones. Susan It's a lovely fragrance, it's not an overpowering fragrance like a lily. Arnold How about Brother Cadfael? Susan Brother Cadfael is actually on the outside. Arnold I can smell that, I bought two Brother Cadfaels last year and I planted them next to my septic tank and it's a jolly good wheeze, I can smell more Brother Cadfael than septic tank. Susan Try this one here, so ... Arnold Mani. Susan ... again it's a beautiful cut many petalled rose, beautiful soft shade of pink. Djazmi Yes that's a different smell to the one we've just smelled but I don't think it's any stronger I have to say, I don't think it's any stronger than the other one. So in terms of your enjoyment of a garden and of flowers I mean how much of that is down to smell and how much is it down to touch and how much is it down to sight? Arnold The first thing is the smell, if you step out of a door and there's honeysuckle and jasmine it's the best thing in the world. But I can see a little bit as long as it's bright, I can't see blue at all, I have to wear funny red glasses because I have RP. But it cuts out blue so my cottage is surrounded by woods full of bluebells up to my knees, can't see a thing. But yellow, red, orange, white of course, perfect, and the kind of rude colours that sophisticated gardeners don't go for, they like drifts of purple and drifts of lavender melting into blue, I can't see that at all. So that's got to be important. Djazmi Well over here is a display of flowers which is used by the perfume maker Jo Malone and one of the flourists, Matthew Dickinson, is with Sue and I. Just give us a brief explanation of what there is here Matthew. Dickinson We have a large garden which has two round raised white beds with some white lovely decking and planted around the outside are very soft muted colours - soft creams, pale pinks and pale blues - everything has a scent and in the centre we have one very, very large floral piece which is about four metres high and about two metres wide and all the way round. Right here we have some beautiful lily of the valley, quite low down. Arnold Oh yeah I can smell that. Djazmi I can smell that as well. Dickinson Very sweet. Arnold Is there a perfume which is just jasmine or is it jasmine with something? Dickinson It's jasmine and mint. Arnold Oh lovely. Dickinson So we do have some - about four different types of mint from chocolate mint and lemon mint, do you want to come and have a sniff? Djazmi Yes let's go and smell some mint. Arnold Chocolate mint. Dickinson If you rub your hands on to there and then smell. Arnold Oh my goodness, Mani do that. Dickinson Rub your hand, just rub your hand gently over - that's it. Djazmi Just rub my hand over this mint. Dickinson That's a chocolate mint. Djazmi Oh wow, wow that's really strong. Dickinson This is eau de cologne mint, you ought to use the other hand otherwise you'll mix the two. This one here. Djazmi So eau de cologne mint this is? Dickinson Eau de cologne mint. Djazmi Right I'm just rubbing my fingers, they've got longer leaves. Yes that's ... Dickinson Nice and strong. Bit further - further that's it. Djazmi Now you know Sue and I are very lucky because we're here, it's a press day, we've collared you and you've very kindly shown us around but if a blind punter were to turn up I mean how accessible would this display be to them, would they be able to get ....? Dickinson Yeah this garden is that you can come on to the garden and smell everything and I'll be here all week. The whole lovely thing about this garden is that when it is finished it's going to a disabled school in North London, so it's going to be replanted, so disabled children, especially blind children, at the school are going to experience the whole scent issue for themselves as well. Djazmi Sue, how much point is there, do you think, in blind or partially-sighted people coming to the Chelsea Flower Show and actually getting some enjoyment out of it? Arnold Mani, the weather has got a lot to do with it because if it was warm and sunny I think the whole ambience would be better, the smells would be better. Now it's cold and miserable and you can't sort of smell anything. But to be perfectly honest I wouldn't say the Chelsea Flower Show really is a good place for blind people to come, I think somewhere like the Physic Garden is better where you can get closer and there's guides to show you around, you know there's a guide here but it doesn't do much for you. White Sue Arnold with Mani Djazmi and they didn't even bother to bring me back a buttonhole. Never mind. We'll be back next week, you can of course get more information about anything you've heard in the programme or make suggestions about what you think we ought to be covering by calling our action line on 0800 044 044 or by contacting us by e-mailing via the website and there's a podcast to be downloaded from that website of today's programme from tomorrow. That's it, from me Peter White, my producer Kathleen Griffin and the rest of the team, goodbye. Back to top |
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