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大象传媒 Radio 4 In Touch |
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Listen to this programmeFactsheet of this programmeTranscript of this programme Print this page FactsheetIN TOUCH FACTSHEET13/01/2009 WEEK 02 CONTENTS PROGRAMME ADDRESS.. 1 ACCESS AND SECURITY.. 1 BRAILLE MUSIC.. 2 GENERAL CONTACTS.. 3 PROGRAMME ADDRESS IN TOUCH 大象传媒 Radio 4 Room 6084 Broadcasting House London W1A 1AA Email: intouch@bbc.co.uk Web: www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/intouch.shtml ACCESS AND SECURITY Guests: Adrienne Chalmers, listener; Stewart Room, data protection specialist from the law firm Field, Fisher Waterhouse Technology, particularly email, has made communication much easier yet many organisations such as banks and parts of the health service will not accept communiqu茅s in this form. In Touch asks when access puts the protection of blind people's private data at risk. CONTACT INFORMATION COMMISSIONER (ICO) Wycliffe House Water Lane Wilmslow Cheshire SK9 5AF Tel: 01625 545745 Fax: 01625 524510 The Information Commissioner's Office is the UK's independent public body set up to promote access to official information and to protect personal information. The ICO regulate and enforce the Data Protection Act, the Freedom of Information Act, the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations and the Environmental Information Regulations. The ICO provides guidance to organisations and individuals. BRAILLE MUSIC Guest: Bill McCann, musician As part of the 200th anniversary of Braille, the programme looks at Braille Music. Recent technology has made far more Braille music scores available. Bill McCann, an American, and talented musician himself, has devised a software programme which can translate print scores into Braille music, and Braille scores into print. The software with more information can be found at: Shared Surfaces UCL are carrying out a research project on behalf of Guide Dogs and Transport for London into the issue of shared surfaces and how they affect different people. They are looking for volunteers to come to their specially designed laboratory in Tufnell Park, London N19, to come and try out a variety of surfaces. If you have partial or no sight or a mobility restriction please call 020 7679 7962 or e-mail kim.morgan@ucl.ac.uk GENERAL CONTACTS RNIB 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 (UK callers only - Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm ) Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They not only provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, but imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. HENSHAWS SOCIETY FOR BLIND PEOPLE (HSBP) John Derby House 88-92 Talbot Road Old Trafford Manchester M16 0GS Tel: 0161 872 1234 Email: info@hsbp.co.uk Web: Henshaws provides a wide range of services for people who have sight difficulties. They aim to enable visually impaired people of all ages to maximise their independence and enjoy a high quality of life. They have centres in: Harrogate, Knaresborough, Liverpool, Llandudno, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Salford, Southport and Trafford. THE GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND ASSOCIATION (GDBA) Burghfield Common Reading RG7 3YG Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@guidedogs.org.uk Web: The GDBA鈥檚 mission is to provide guide dogs, mobility and other rehabilitation services that meet the needs of blind and partially sighted people. ACTION FOR BLIND PEOPLE 14-16 Verney Road London SE16 3DZ Tel: 0800 915 4666 (info & advice) Tel: 020 7635 4800 (central office) Web: Registered charity with national cover that provides practical support in the areas of housing, holidays, information, employment and training, cash grants and welfare rights for blind and partially-sighted people. Leaflets and booklets are available. NATIONAL LEAGUE OF THE BLIND AND DISABLED Central Office Swinton House 324 Grays Inn Road London WC1X 8DD Tel: 020 7837 6103 Textphone: 020 7837 6103 National League of the Blind and Disabled is a registered trade union and is involved in all issues regarding the employment of blind and disabled people in the UK. NATIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND (NLB) Far Cromwell Road Bredbury Stockport SK6 2SG Tel: 0161 406 2525 Textphone: 0161 355 2043 Email: enquiries@nlbuk.org Web: The NLB is a registered charity which helps visually impaired people throughout the country continue to enjoy the same access to the world of reading as people who are fully sighted. DISABILITY RIGHTS COMMISSION (DRC) Freepost MID 02164 Stratford-upon-Avon CV37 9BR Tel: 08457 622 633 Textphone: 08457 622 644 Web: The DRC aims to act as a central source of advice on the rights of disabled people, while helping disabled people secure their rights and eliminate discrimination. It can advise on the operation of the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). DISABLED LIVING FOUNDATION 380-384 Harrow Road London W9 2HU Tel: 0845 130 9177 Web: The Disabled Living Foundation provide information and advice on disability equipment. THRIVE The Geoffrey Udall Centre Beech Hill Reading RG7 2AT Tel: 0118 9885688 Email: info@thrive.org.uk Thrive is a national charity, founded in 1978, whose aim is to research, educate and promote the use and advantages of gardening for those with a disability. Thrive鈥檚 vision is that the benefits of gardening are known to, and can be accessed by, anyone with a disability. The 大象传媒 is not responsible for external websites聽 General contacts Back to top TranscriptIN TOUCHTX: 13.01.09 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: JOE KENT White Good evening. Well it may be the 200th anniversary of the birth of the inventor of Braille but will 2009 be a good year for what many think of as the Cinderella of the Braille system - Braille music? Actuality Music This is my little song - or something ... We got this - let's see. Synthetic voice Treble clef. Four flats, A flat major, four four time .... White Well today we'll be looking at how one American musician is making all music potentially accessible in Braille. But first when does access put the protection of blind people's private data at risk? For many visually impaired people technology, and particularly e-mail, which can be read either by Braille or using synthetic speech, has made the reading and writing of what we used to call letters so much easier. And yet many organisations and companies, such as banks and parts of the health service, won't communicate or accept communications in this form. They say it's to protect our security. Well it's a problem with which Adrienne Chalmers has had direct experience and she joins me on the line from Edinburgh. Explain Adrienne what sparked this off - your concern over this. Chalmers Well I see a CPN once a month ... White That's a community psychiatrist nurse. Chalmers That's it - community psychiatric nurse - yes. Now we make appointments for the next visit when she comes round, however, if there needs to be a change in that appointment time the most effective way of her communicating that to me has been by e-mail. I don't read Braille, I don't read print and that was just the easiest thing all round. Now in October at our meeting she informed me that a policy of NHS Lothian now prevented her, or her secretary, from e-mailing me solely about changing appointment dates. White So in other words there is no way that you can really get, unless you got a print letter and you can't read that, you'd have to depend on somebody else to do that for you. Chalmers Yes and it seems absolutely ludicrous that something which is supposed to be to protect my confidentiality actually means that the only way they can communicate with me is by a method which guarantees that I don't have confidentiality because I have to get a third party to read it to me. White So what has the health service said to you about it, presumably you've taken this problem to them? Chalmers Yes, well the first port of call was the Data Protection Officer. I e-mailed him, he phoned me back and we had a long discussion about the ins and outs of it and apparently it was data protection, I believe principle 7 of the Data Protection Act. And I did explain to him that I really didn't care, as far as I was concerned they could print the content of these e-mails on the front page of the local newspaper if they liked. And he said no they couldn't do it, it was just not possible. White So in a way you felt you weren't being given a reason but you were told that's the rule, that's the way it is? Chalmers Yeah and I did try to mention reasonable adjustment to him and he said no they won't discriminating, they were just following data protection. And it was extremely frustrating. White Well no one from NHS Lothian was available for interview but they tell us they are sympathetic. NHS Lothian statement The NHS Lothian e-health security policy prevents staff from sending e-mails containing patient identifiable information out with the NHS network. Healthcare professionals also have a duty of confidentiality towards their patients. This means that we have to protect patient information getting into the wrong hands. The risk of this increases with insecure electronic communication. They are, however, looking at ways that they could provide secure accessible electronic information. Well also joining us and listening to that is data protection specialist Stewart Room, from the law firm Field, Fisher Waterhouse. So Stewart, in your view, who's right about this and who's wrong? Room As far as the NHS is concerned the government's been undergoing a substantial data handling review over the past 12 months. That followed on from the loss of those child benefit data disks in November 2007. But the Data Protection Act itself doesn't prevent the sending of this information by e-mail. The act requires effectively appropriate measures to keep data safe. And if you look at the alternative, which is regular post, the fear of misdirection exists there too. White So you're saying there's nothing structurally about e-mail that makes it more dangerous, this is a choice that they are making? Room That's right. An e-mail which is sent to the right address you'd expect to be received properly. But in any event the information that we're sending here, which is really just dates and times for an appointment, isn't information that's likely to cause harm or loss if misdirected and that's the legal test. White So what about Adrienne's point - if she or I or any other visually impaired person decided to sign a waver is that not an adequate thing and why won't big organisations allow you to do that? Room Well that would satisfy many organisations. In a strict analysis of the law you can't consent to bad security. But that isn't really what we're talking about here. We're consenting to the receipt of a communication of information that won't cause damage if it gets misdirected. White You are saying these things really are down to the company's policy, not to anything that the law tells them to do? Room Well that's right, the law requires appropriate measures. If we were talking about sending very, very sensitive health information we might be in a different situation but we're not. White Say, for example, it were bank details. Room If you were to send financial information by e-mail there is a strong argument that the receipt of that could result in financial crime. And the Financial Services Authority and the Information Commissioner are cautioning against the sending of that data by e-mail. And I think that's the right policy. White It's still significant, isn't it, whether one form of communication is actually really anymore secure than another. Room Quite, evidentially that's hugely significant. And also the point we shouldn't forget is that the legislation should be read so as not to cause a discriminatory effect. So I think this is a special issue that does need proper attention and care because of course there are hundreds of thousands of people who might be effectively discriminated out of many services because of an overly strict interpretation of the Data Protection Act. White Adrienne, what would you like to do next and what's your reaction to what Stewart said? Chalmers I'm pleased to hear that he seems to me mainly agree with what I've been saying. I don't believe this is sensitive information, I don't care if it gets misdirected, I actually just want to have access to it myself. And I would like to have access to a lot of other information that I can't get from the health service by electronic means. White Adrienne Chalmers, Stewart Room - thank you both very much indeed. And we would welcome your comments and experiences about this. The usual details to get in touch with us and we'll give them at the end of the programme. And talking of reactions here are some of the things that you told us after our special on Braille last week. Mani Djazmi has been pulling it all together for us and he began by hearing from listener Alison Butcher. Butcher Peter White was mentioning the fact that there was a Stainsby Braille machine, which is quite an old fashioned traditional Braille machine. And he was slightly amused by this because they're not used very much. But I run a charity Agents of Change in Romania and we work very closely with one school for the blind and they have only four machines in use for 120 children and we would give a lot to be able to get our hands on Stainsby Braillers or Perkins Braillers. Djazmi So the blind children who don't have access to these machines what do they do? Butcher They have to wait their turn to access the machine. And these children are on a full normal school programme, so they have to work very hard sharing everything and trying to learn by rote. And just cope the best they can. They have things stored on Braille paper that the kids can then actually read. And they're all taught Braille, it's inappropriate for them to be learning computer technology because they don't have access to anything like that. So they just have to manage, it's very, very tough. White Alison, I can assure you that the machine that I was handling looked so ancient that I doubt whether it would have survived transport to Romania. But it's a good point. And there are a number of organisations who are also transferring Braille books and machines abroad. Mani, what else did you get for us? Djazmi Jemma Nichol from Llanelli has contacted the 大象传媒. She says: "I've been a Braillist for many years now and I'm delighted to see that interest and understanding of this wonderful communication method is on the rise. It could so easily have fallen by the wayside due to increased provision of audio recordings. But I'm much encouraged that it is still prevalent. The only thing that concerns me with regard to the provision of Braille is that the so-called lead distributors in the UK have become complacent, due to their inherited status and that work that I've received from them in the past has been more than substandard and inaccurate, which is unacceptable when it comes to Braille." And this from Jose Stratford who grew up in the Netherlands and learnt her Braille with a writing frame, which she still uses on an almost daily basis for writing labels and Christmas or birthday cards. Anything in fact, she says, that needs permanence. She goes on: "I really feel we must insist on keeping Braille on the agenda as a perfectly acceptable means of communication. Are you sometime in the future going to talk about Braille music notation? I remember it with a sense of lasting frustration." White Well Jose we are and not in the future but right now. Actuality Synthetic Voice Muisc White Well I don't quite know what you call a collection of blind musicians but these are some of the sounds they make or may increasingly be making as more of them discover the latest technology to make far more Braille music scores available. Even if you know Braille well Braille music is another country. It's a system with added complexities, although of course if you're a naturally talented musician you have the incentive to overcome them. But, as we'll hear, getting Braille music in the past could be a very long drawn out business, assuming you could get hold of the piece you wanted at all. That's now changing, thanks to one man, Bill McCann, an American and talented musician himself, has devised a software program which can translate print scores into Braille music and Braille scores into print. Yesterday in London on a flying visit to Britain Bill was demonstrating his so-called Good Feel software both to professionals and music students, some of whom were touching it for the very first time. As the students toiled Bill McCann told me more about his system. McCann What it allows us to do is get from the printed page to the Braille page and take the creative ideas from the blind person's head and give them to a sighted person in conventional staff notation. White So to look at it from the print as it were to Braille, how difficult has that been to do in the past? McCann Traditionally I would get a print music score and mail it off to a kind volunteer who because they're a volunteer I can't say I need this tomorrow, even if I did, and most of the time I did, and depending on their workload and their ability they would return it in two weeks or maybe four weeks or maybe six weeks and maybe after the concert was over. White And they would presumably be doing that manually - dot by dot? McCann Yes, they would emboss it character by character and if you got halfway down the page and had a major problem you'd take the paper out and you'd start all over again. Unless you're a singer you need time to memorise the music and - so getting the score hours before the concert isn't a good option. The important thing is we see the detail that the composer thought important - where we play louder, where we play softly, where we slow down, where we might make the notes kind of staccato or broken apart. All those details that you don't get from listening to someone else. If you mimic someone else you're only as good as they were. White Well Bill while you're chatting to me the students are inside trying to work stuff out, so perhaps I can pop in and see how they're getting on. Singing If I could just interrupt you, just for a moment, you've obviously reached a very crucial stage in preparation. Sally It's almost ready, I just need a little bit more time to practice. White How different is this process from the process which Braille music readers have had to use in the past? Clare It feels an awful lot more fiddly but I think where it's really going to come in to its own is - I've been a proof reader for many years, so what I hope is that I'll be able to by listening to the results of the scan I'll be able to quickly master the processes and be able to make changes and get at music I haven't been able to get at until now. Sally It's the same for me, actually, I find that if a sighted person looks at a score they see a shape, they see an image of it and they see right this is how it looks at the beginning, maybe this bit repeats 10 times or whatever and as a Braille musician you're constantly looking from note to note, so you don't see the whole shape of the piece until you've finished it. White That's really interesting because it's a bit like the parallel with looking at a big object, isn't it, like an aeroplane that you can only see or feel a tiny bit of it at a time. Sally Yeah, so you take away that kind of linear aspect that you've been stuck with before and you can have a little look at the whole shape of it, which is really good. Clare I know this makes mistakes, at the stage it's at at the moment, but I hope this will give much more the idea that it's our own work at the end of it. White Well look the clock is ticking down so I'd better get out of your way but Sally Clay and Clare Gallens thank you both very much. Singing Well there's quite a lot of musical hubbub in there so we've just nipped out and with me is James Risden, who's the RNIB's music officer. What is the importance of this particular day? Risden It's not very well known, I don't think, outside musical circles that Louis Braille was also responsible for the music code and while there are not huge numbers of Braille music readers, Braille music is of absolute vital importance to them in their leisure pursuits or indeed in their employment. In the room, where we've just come from, are a number of people who earn their living from music and Braille music plays an invaluable role to them. And what we're doing is helping people have access and better access to independent means of producing their own music. White So what's the significance, do you feel, of the Good Feel software? Risden What Good Feel allows us to do, as you've seen, is produce music within a matter of minutes or hours and largely independently. I can go and buy some music in a shop, take it home, scan it in and get something approximating the music that I can make a start on. White So the parallel with what we've been talking about on the programme, as far as Braille texts and books, is a real one, it is the idea that you could walk into a music shop and buy something, as I go on about walking into Waterstones? Risden Absolutely, I mean many listeners will be familiar with the process of buying a print book, breaking it in half, scanning page by page and getting mostly sense but a bit of gobbledegook back and then potentially either reading it on a Braille display or a note taker or embossing it and that's exactly what we're doing, the only difference is we're doing it with music. White We've got a group of three over here with their heads together. If I can go to Peter Bosher, can you just explain what you're doing here today Peter? Bosher I'm here today because I train people in how to use this software. We can either scan music into the computer or we can download a music file from the internet and then we can actually go through note by note and hear exactly every single detail that you would see if you were looking at the print score. White You're working with Ann and Katy, what's the project, which you haven't got all that long to do? Bosher We've been given a Braille score, which was produced by the software and we have to correct the file and then study it and sing the parts ourselves. White Right, so Ann and Katy how's it going? Ann It's quite a steep learning curve I think. Katy I'm a very keen but not very talented amateur harpsichordist and I particularly like the sort of 17th and 18th Century French harpsichord repertoire which is very difficult to get in Braille. White So is this the first time you've used this kind of software? Katy Yes, yes absolutely. I've only started re-learning Braille music in about the last 15 months I suppose. White Well good luck. I'd better stop bothering you so that you can actually get on with it but thank you all very much indeed. Actuality The time has come to find out what you have produced that can be musically performed and this is where everybody says not me first. One, two, three ... Singing White Well Bill McCann, as we listen to the musicians who've brought some of the music to fruition using your software today I mean what's the day been like for you? McCann It's just always a great joy to be with blind musicians and their teachers and their supporters, just to connect directly with their experience because I've been through it, you know I got an education in music, I've worked as a professional musician and I know what they're up against and when I see them discover it's just really fun for me and it just reinforces all the work we've done. Singing and clapping White And just remember the score for that was created in less than an afternoon. There are more RNIB organised music events throughout the year, you can get more information on that and also Braille music software from our website. As usual you can call our action line with your reactions on 0800 044 044, we'd love you to do so or e-mail In Touch via the website. From me, Peter White, today's producer Joe Kent and the team, goodbye. Back to top |
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