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大象传媒 Radio 4 In Touch |
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Listen to this programmeFactsheet of this programmeTranscript of this programme Print this page FactsheetIN TOUCH FACTSHEET27/01/2009 WEEK 04 CONTENTS PROGRAMME ADDRESS.. 1 LIGHT BULBS.. 1 STEM CELL THERAPY.. 3 TALKING JUG.. 4 GENERAL CONTACTS.. 4 PROGRAMME ADDRESS IN TOUCH 大象传媒 Radio 4 Room 6084 Broadcasting House London W1A 1AA Email: intouch@bbc.co.uk Web: www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/intouch.shtml LIGHT BULBS Guests: Lee Dryden, from the lighting manufacturer Osram; Larry Benjamin, Royal College of Ophthalmologists As the incandescent light bulbs we have been used to are phased out because of their inefficiency, the programme ask what the effect will be on visually impaired people who need a brighter light. Larry Benjamin has put the weight of the Royal College of Ophthalmologists behind the campaign to highlight this as a real problem. The Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) released the following statement: 鈥淲e recognise that Compact Florescent Lamps (CFLs) do not offer the same 鈥榗ontrast鈥 that incandescent lamps offer as they give off diffused light. To address these concerns halogen lamps, which do provide contrast lighting, will remain on the market. These are available in supermarkets and will be increasingly available as the incandescent ban comes into effect. These lamps offer 30-45% energy savings in comparison to incandescent lamps (less than CFLs which offer up to 80% savings). The cost of halogen bulbs is comparable to that of CFLs and is expected to come down in price with increased volume of production. These lamps are also fully dimmable, which is often required for those with certain sight conditions.鈥 CONTACTS ROYAL COLLEGE OF OPHTHALMOLOGISTS DEFRA Government information on light bulbs and energy saving. THE ENERGY SAVING TRUST Energy Efficiency Hotline: 0800 512 012 Web: The Energy Saving Trust is a non-profit distributing company set up by the Government and major energy companies. They work with a range of partners to deliver energy efficiency to domestic consumers. The Energy Saving Trust is involved in a number of initiatives concerning energy efficiency, renewable energy and clean fuels. STEM CELL THERAPY Geoffrey Raisman of University College London has been working for some years on stem-cell therapy for spinal cord injuries, but has recently discovered that his treatment could also be used to repair optic nerve damage found in cases of Glaucoma. He told Carolyn Atkinson about the experiments he has been conducting. CONTACTS INTERNATIONAL GLAUCOMA ASSOCIATION (IGA) Woodcote House 15 Highpoint Business Village Henwood Ashford Kent TN24 8DH Tel. 01233 64 81 70 The IGA is a patient-based organisation which works to prevent glaucoma blindness by providing information, literature and advice. RNIB Factsheet on Glaucoma. RNIB 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 (UK callers only - Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm) Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, as well as imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. TALKING JUG Ian MaCrae looked at measuring jugs. CUISIPRO MEASURING JUGS. Transparent plastic measuring jugs with clear measurement markings in ml, cups, fl oz and oz. Feature a removable measuring gauge which slots in on either side of the jug depending on which scale is required. Gauge has a bright red sliding marker which can be set to the desired level providing a tactile and clear visual reference. Anyone with very low or no sight would require assistance in setting the marker to the appropriate level on the gauge. Not suitable for measuring very hot or boiling liquid by touch. Two sizes available: 500 ml ref 11666 拢6.84 1 litre ref 11667 拢8.80 TALKING MEASURING JUG The Talking Measuring Jug is available from RNIB online shop or Cobolt website. GENERAL CONTACTS RNIB 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 (UK callers only - Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm ) Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They not only provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, but imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. HENSHAWS SOCIETY FOR BLIND PEOPLE (HSBP) John Derby House 88-92 Talbot Road Old Trafford Manchester M16 0GS Tel: 0161 872 1234 Email: info@hsbp.co.uk Web: Henshaws provides a wide range of services for people who have sight difficulties. They aim to enable visually impaired people of all ages to maximise their independence and enjoy a high quality of life. They have centres in: Harrogate, Knaresborough, Liverpool, Llandudno, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Salford, Southport and Trafford. THE GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND ASSOCIATION (GDBA) Burghfield Common Reading RG7 3YG Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@guidedogs.org.uk Web: The GDBA鈥檚 mission is to provide guide dogs, mobility and other rehabilitation services that meet the needs of blind and partially sighted people. ACTION FOR BLIND PEOPLE 14-16 Verney Road London SE16 3DZ Tel: 0800 915 4666 (info & advice) Tel: 020 7635 4800 (central office) Web: Registered charity with national cover that provides practical support in the areas of housing, holidays, information, employment and training, cash grants and welfare rights for blind and partially-sighted people. Leaflets and booklets are available. NATIONAL LEAGUE OF THE BLIND AND DISABLED Central Office Swinton House 324 Grays Inn Road London WC1X 8DD Tel: 020 7837 6103 Textphone: 020 7837 6103 National League of the Blind and Disabled is a registered trade union and is involved in all issues regarding the employment of blind and disabled people in the UK. NATIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND (NLB) Far Cromwell Road Bredbury Stockport SK6 2SG Tel: 0161 406 2525 Textphone: 0161 355 2043 Email: enquiries@nlbuk.org Web: The NLB is a registered charity which helps visually impaired people throughout the country continue to enjoy the same access to the world of reading as people who are fully sighted. DISABILITY RIGHTS COMMISSION (DRC) Freepost MID 02164 Stratford-upon-Avon CV37 9BR Tel: 08457 622 633 Textphone: 08457 622 644 Web: The DRC aims to act as a central source of advice on the rights of disabled people, while helping disabled people secure their rights and eliminate discrimination. It can advise on the operation of the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). DISABLED LIVING FOUNDATION 380-384 Harrow Road London W9 2HU Tel: 0845 130 9177 Web: The Disabled Living Foundation provide information and advice on disability equipment. THRIVE The Geoffrey Udall Centre Beech Hill Reading RG7 2AT Tel: 0118 9885688 Email: info@thrive.org.uk Thrive is a national charity, founded in 1978, whose aim is to research, educate and promote the use and advantages of gardening for those with a disability. Thrive鈥檚 vision is that the benefits of gardening are known to, and can be accessed by, anyone with a disability. The 大象传媒 is not responsible for external websites聽 General contacts Back to top TranscriptIN TOUCHTX: 27.01.09 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: JOE KENT White Good Evening. Tonight: more developments in the field of stem cell surgery, this time of particular interest, albeit long-term, to those with glaucoma; and we'll be joined by Ian Macrae, for some precision pouring. Clip Automated voice Water. Zero millimetres. Millimetres, litres, pints, fluid ounces. White More of that a little later on. But first, if you have some sight, you'll already know how crucial to that kind of operation good lighting can be, it's something which has been increasingly recognised over recent years. So the growing row about the possible impact of the disappearance of the traditional light bulb on visually impaired people is no sideshow. Many stores have already stopped selling 100 watt light bulbs and they will no longer be available anywhere in the UK after September. The question is, what will be the effect on people with poor sight who need a brighter light to help them do a whole range of tasks; and how available will alternatives be? Larry Benjamin has put the weight of the Royal College of Ophthalmology behind the campaign to highlight this as a real issue. Benjamin Incandescent bulbs give a general light - lighting source - and the worry is that if they disappear patients won't be able to have the same level of lighting in their homes. There's quite good evidence that low lighting can lead to a greater number of falls in people with low vision, so it is quite important. White Well as I mentioned, Ian Macrae, In Touch regular and editor if Disability Now, is with us. So how does this affect you? Macrae In terms of ambient light I would say that when we moved into the house we're now in, which was about 15 years ago, it was completely kitted out with low energy bulbs and I have to say when you turned them on the rooms actually went darker. They are now better than that in terms of the light they provide but they do - there are two issues about them for me, one is they do take quite a bit of time to kind of warm up to shed the maximum amount of light and the second is that they really are - their effectiveness is really seriously reduced by shading, so quite often in public places they're encased in sort of frosted globes and that really does reduce the amount of light they give off. White Well we're joined by Lee Dryden, from the lighting manufacturer Osram. Lee Dryden, first of all what is - what would you say is the difference between the quality of light from a traditional bulb and from these low-energy bulbs? Dryden Well the low energy light bulbs were generally referred to as a compact fluorescent bulb, I mean they've been on the market now since '85 and they've come on leaps and bounds. In terms of light quality the leading brands are independently tested to make sure that they give off the same amount of light as the bulb that they're replacing. But the EU, come September 1st, will issue a new series of regulations in their directive which actually tightens this information, so you won't be able to put a product onto the market unless it does the job that it says it can do. White But this is also about contrast, and I mean a lot of people are saying this - the government department who is responsible for it say it, we've just heard an ophthalmologist say it - these are not just isolated complaints. Dryden Brightness is one aspect of it and if you're talking about contrast you're really referring to a thing called colour rendering. And colour rendering is about how we perceive colour. And there's a very minor difference in the colour rendering that a compact fluorescent can do versus the incandescent bulb. But generally speaking it's not really noticeable and all it would affect is your ability to distinguish colour, not your ability to actually see. White Well why are these people complaining, I mean why did somebody say to me this morning - this is someone with RP - retinitis pigmentosa - it's the same problem that I have when I go into a badly lit pub and I've seen him kind of go from being able to see reasonably well to being completely at sea in that side of the situation, now why would somebody say that if there wasn't a problem? Dryden Well I don't know is the perfect answer, we've seen no research or any kind of evidence to suggest that. What I could say is that if they have tested the products from a premium manufacturer, they have tried the latest technology, then there are alternatives available should they still be having a problem. White What are the alternatives? Dryden First and foremost there's a range of halogen energy savers which look identical, they give better or identical colour rendering, they have a very good lumen output, which is how bright they get, they're fully dimmable, they have a really nice sparkly light as well, so a really good alternative for those that just don't like the energy saving light bulb. White What about the availability of such things, halogen, there is an LED alternative as well isn't there? Dryden Well to take the first point, the halogen should be widely available in most supermarkets and DIY sheds I'm sure will be rolling out bigger stocks as we approach this September window for the EU regulations. And LED - yeah LED's a real alternative, it's coming - it's coming up very fast. This year you'll see a 40 watt equivalent and I'm sure hot on its trail will be a 60 watt. White But both of these options are more expensive aren't they? Dryden They are more expensive, we're not talking a huge amount, we're talking pennies here. White I've heard figures of 拢1.50 more for halogen lights which if you've got - if you've got to put them in all your rooms that's not negligible is it, you know someone living on benefits that's not a negligible amount of money? Dryden Well we wouldn't argue over cost, I think the typical retail price is around the 拢1.50 mark for the product itself and also you've got to remember that that will put back into the people's pockets the money that it saves on the energy bill, which in the long term will be greater because it lasts twice as long as a normal bulb. White So I mean what are your solutions to this problem - are you saying that it will settle down because you seem to be in some doubt about the evidence that we're hearing from people that it is a problem? Dryden Well I think one of the issues is when people purchase these products that perhaps the packaging doesn't tell them enough detail about the light output that's going to be on the product, I think that's first and foremost. But I'm confident that with the new EU regulations, which actually stipulates that the lumens - which is the light output - should be stipulated on all packaging twice the size of the wattage because remember wattage is only a measurement of power consumption not about light output - then people will be far more educated about what the product actually does and how much light comes out. White Okay well we will be interested to see the reaction to that. Lee Dryden, thanks very much for joining us on the programme. Well, I鈥檓 sure people will be seeking solutions to these very practical problems for a long time to come. But talk of more radical solutions to visual impairment, such as stem-cell surgery, is becoming increasingly insistent, fuelled by Barack Obama's commitment to allow research in the United States which had been prevented under the previous administration. Last week we looked at a new project in Scotland to replace damaged cells around the cornea; this week there's more news of developments to treat glaucoma, along with Macular Disease - the commonest forms of blindness in this country among elderly people. Geoffrey Raisman of University College London has been working for some years on stem-cell therapy for spinal cord injury, but he's recently discovered that his treatment could also be used to repair optic nerve damage found in cases of glaucoma. He told Carolyn Atkinson about the experiments he's been conducting. Raisman There are a number of conditions where nerve fibres are, if you like, cut, severed, disconnected and so function is lost. In the spinal cord we can show in rats that transplantation of olfactory ensheathing cells allows the fibres to regenerate and functions to come back. In the case of the optic nerve in glaucoma the pressure is equivalent, although more gradual, to a spinal cord injury - it severs the optic nerve fibres at the back of the eye due to the pressure in the eye going up, due to failure of drainage of the circulating fluids in the eye and it causes blindness by damaging the optic nerve. Atkinson The fundamentals of your research are to do with repairing the damage of the nerve when it's been split, if you like, how does that relate to what is going on in the eye when glaucoma is causing damage to the optic nerve? Raisman We have done some preliminary experiments with our olfactory ensheathing cells showing that they can be transplanted into the vulnerable area of the optic nerve and we are currently exploring whether they can protect against the damaging effects of pressure in glaucoma. Atkinson And you're excited to be able to say that you're beginning to see in your lab work with rats something that you think may eventually have applications in humans, can you explain what you have been able to show in the lab? Raisman Well what we've been able to show is that we can transplant the cells into this part of the optic nerve and that the cells interact with the nerve fibres there. It's only a beginning but it could be opening the door to protecting against probably the commonest form of blindness in the developing world. Atkinson How do you feel as a team in the team that you're working with because really this came about by accident didn't it? Raisman This came about by discussion with our colleagues at Moorfields. However, we have linked up with the eye hospital at Chun Chen in China who have sent us one of their experts who's working with us now. One of my concerns about this is how I'm going to continue to fund this new line of research that we've taken on. Atkinson How much potential do you think there is in it? Raisman We do not know how to cure any of these conditions currently, any of these conditions where nerve fibres are severed. If we can show that any nerve fibres can be reconnected or can be protected as a result of these cells then we've shown there is a door in the wall. That door leads, like the door in Alice in Wonderland, on to great vistas beyond it, they include spinal cord injury, they include blindness and one of the commonest conditions is stroke. All these lie behind that door if we can only get it open. Atkinson You've been very keen to differentiate - false hope must not be given to people when they hear about elementary levels of research and lab research that hasn't yet been proven in people, so to avoid giving false hope to people who hear about this, who may have glaucoma or have a family history of glaucoma, what would your caution be? Raisman My caution about this is we don't know if it's going to work, we don't know whether what we've done is practical, we're exploring it. It will take time and a lot of development. I hope people can understand that these are just the beginnings, I hate to say green shoots in the present context, but they're just the beginnings of exploring things. If things are not explored no one will get anywhere. Atkinson So how significant do you consider this preliminary work to be in terms of where you might eventually end up? Raisman If what we're doing is correct it will be a major step forward, it would be an historic step. It's a long way before we'll know whether we are. White Geoffrey Raisman, talking to the disability reporter for our sister programme You and Yours Carolyn Atkinson. Ian Macrae, you've got glaucoma, we agonise on this programme about this kind of item, I'm just interested to know, as someone who's got the condition, do you - are you - do you like to hear this kind of item or does it irritate you or do you want information - what's your reaction to it? Macrae For me, personally, it drives me absolutely wild actually and that's partly I think because - and I know I risk sounding very smug about this - but I am entirely comfortable with the fact that I have congenital cataracts and that as a result of that condition I now have secondary glaucoma, I'm entirely comfortable with that condition, I know there are people who get glaucoma down the line and have been used to being fully sighted people and probably do view this differently, but I say let's live with the conditions that we have and scientists find that a little difficult to accept. White We might get some interesting reactions to that as well. In the meantime, as you rather suggest, life goes on being a matter of solving practical problems the best way you can; issues like how best to measure liquids when cooking, or in my case drinking probably, especially if your sight is poor. Now there have always been a range of solutions to this problem: discreet jugs of different sizes; pouring liquids into containers of your own whose capacity you're familiar with; the talking jug is now on the scene and Ian you've been poring over the latest developments - sorry about that - so where are we really? Macrae Well I've got one cheap low tech and one relatively expensive relatively high tech answer Peter. White Okay, for me especially let's have the low tech one first. Macrae Okay, so what we have here is a transparent plastic measuring jug - that's it there - with a difference because like all of the measuring jugs it's got the usual scales of measurement up the sides, two pairs - one either side of the jug - but what's different about this jug is that it also has grooves between those pairs of scales, those measuring scales, and those grooves are to accommodate a kind of folded plastic strip - this is it here - which slots on to the jug and that strip has on it a slider, which you can hear there, which you can move up and down and it's made up of two parts which are magnetised together. White I have to say - and it's already sounding a bit complicated - so I mean how actually does it work? Macrae Okay. So you take the plastic strip and you slot it on to the jug - it's a little bit fiddly to do but actually once it's on the whole thing is ... White It's a knack is it, you're going to tell me it's a knack. Macrae Well you know that's right. So there we go. And then you can slide this slider up and down. Now because the slider is magnetised it has a thing on the outside - a red kind of block - and on the inside it has a kind of tongue shaped marker as well. So you can do this either by peering or by touch, I want to measure say 200 mils of water, so I move the slider to the point on the scale that says 200 mils, I get a bottle of 大象传媒 water and then either by looking or by touching the marker on the inside I can tell when the liquid has reached the 200 mil mark which is there. So that's an accurately measured 200 millilitres of water. White Okay. So any drawbacks? Macrae It's really only possible to use it independently if like me you've got a bit of useful vision. For you, Peter, you would have to get someone to set the marker for you but once you've done that you could then locate the marker that's on the inside by the time honoured method of using your index finger. Of course that's a little dodgy if you're working with either boiling or very hot liquid. White Of if you've got guests. Macrae Indeed. White Okay, so is there anything that's absolutely tailor-made for me as a totally blind person? Macrae Well I know it sounds like something out of a fairytale but there actually is a talking jug. And I've got one here. And just out of interest I'm going to pass it over to see what you make of that. White It's more like a kettle - it's big isn't it. Macrae It's enormous yes. White It's hefty. Okay. Macrae Okay, well I've been using one of those in my kitchen and here are the results. So this jug comes in two parts. There's the goblet which is here - two litres it holds - and the base. I've got the base in front of me with the handle facing to the right, put the goblet on to the base, the jug part, with the spout facing me and turn it round till it snaps in. Now the controls - well first of all we've got to switch it on. When you switch it on it will tell you how the jug is set, what liquid it's ready to receive and what unit of measurement it's using. So here we go. Automated voice Water. Zero millilitres. Macrae Now you can alter that. Automated voice Millilitres, litres, pints, fluid ounces, US pints, US fluid ounces, millilitres. Macrae Millilitres is probably the most accurate. Automated voice Zero millilitres. Macrae Stop interrupting when I'm talking. Millilitres is probably the most accurate measurement. Automated voice Zero millilitres. Macrae You can then choose your liquid, currently it's set to water. Another control down at the bottom here, which I'll press. Automated voice Milk, cooking oil, water. Macrae Water would include any non viscous liquid. Milk for anything thicker than that and then obviously oil you can use for measuring cooking oil. The next part comes when we start to measure liquid into the jug. So I've got the tap here and I'm just going to put the jug under the tap. Automated voice Two hundred - three hundred and fifty, three hundred and seventy. Macrae So you'll see it actually ... Automated voice Three hundred and sixty, three hundred and sixty millilitres. Macrae So I think I've measured three hundred and sixty but it's a bit by guess, I have to say, and it doesn't actually announce anything for quite a long time. And when it does announce we were right up in the 200s so if I'd wanted less than that I'd have to have started pouring liquid out. So it would take quite a long time to say I've got to 125 millilitres, so let's just ... Automated voice Two hundred and thirty. Macrae So it's quite a slow laborious process. Automated voice Forty - forty millilitres. Macrae And now I've shot way down below the measurement that I wanted. So as you can tell Peter, it's probably just as well that I tend not to rely on absolutely accurate measuring when I'm cooking, I tend to go by what feels and looks and tastes right. White Ian Macrae, thanks for that and indeed for all your contributions today. You'll be able to find details of both the talking measuring jug - available from the RNIB - and the Cuisipro measuring jug on our action line, number as usual 0800 044 044 and on our website, indeed more information about everything in the programme. You can download a podcast from tomorrow. From me, Peter White, my producer, Joe Kent, and the team, goodbye. Back to top |
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