A few years ago, Horace and his wife, Clare, became involved in a church with such rigid views that it could be classed as a cult. Horace used to play bass with the groups, The Specials and later with General Public, and now teaches at a special needs school. Clare and Horace talked to John Peel about how they go involved with, and eventually left the cult in which had been so central to their lives...
Clare: "We were going to a fairly ordinary local church. Some women there who were involved in another very much pro-women movement. They were very dynamic powerful women. They decided to start their own church, and Horace and I gradually left our own church and went over to this one.
John: What was it that this church offered that the previous one did not?
Clare: In the begining they seemed to be more sincere, dynamic and active in the community. What they do on the outside can look good.
John: Did they seem brainwashed or different from yourselves?
Clare: We didn’t feel that they were brainwashed initially.
Horace: But they were very dynamic and did seem to have a very up-to-date 'Now!' take on the Bible. This made sense for what we wanted at the time. After a while, it seemed to be the Bible mixed with American business seminar techniques, using a lot of American names - and all of a sudden it was "God wants you rich. God wants you to have prosperity" and everybody started praying for white BMWs!
Clare: They actually said the reason why people fought over Jesus’clothes when he was on the cross was because his clothes were designer clothes of the time.
John: You’re kidding!
Horace: There was some mention in the Bible of it being a ‘seamless garment’ .. it was like the equivalent of Armani or something …
John: Why did you need to get caught up in this?
Horace: Claire and I had gone through all that pop madness that goes on and felt there must be more to life than this… us Christanity seemed a fair answer..
Claire: The mistake people make is thinking that cults only attract vulnerable people. When you’re in these organisations, there’s doctors, teachers, lawyers, musicians artist - all kinds of people. At some level they must feel they have a need for it, but at another level it legitimises that organisation.
John: Did they try to change you at all?
Clare: It’s a gradual drip drip process. You’re accepted as you are when you first go, but then there are things you have to change about your appearance, the way you talk and act.."
John: What did they want to change about your appearance?
Clare: "Well I had a Number 4 haircut - you know - shaved all over and I was told I had a demonic spirit of lesbianism because of my haircut… The organisation wanted us to change my friends - they called them ‘cronies’. I didn’t lose contact with my friends, which was a life-saver for me, but I did change my attitude towards them. I felt that there was an ‘us’ and ‘them’ situation. Everybody outside the organisation isn’t ‘saved’, isn’t ‘enlightened’. This is encouraged.
John: What about your family?
Clare: My father disapproved of the organisation right from the beginning. My sister and brother-in-law, and my mother eventually joined a different group up in Scotland. They’re not now involved with them.
Horace: There was a lot about healing - and this was the reason why we eventually got out…
Clare: A friend had a son who was 3 years old. He had cancer. I took her to a meeting with a visiting American evangelist - he laid hands on her son and said the boy was well. Fact. The boy had been sent home to die from the hospital - there was nothing more they could do for him. My friend had pinned her last and highest hopes on this and it was just so painful when her son died about a week later. At the time I believed that it might have helped …
Horace: Absolute travesties were done in the name of God, Jesus, the Bible..
John: Were you threatened when you left?
Clare: No - the pastor came round and had a talk and was very disgruntled. If we see any of those people now they look at us with a bemused horror. We’re against their organisation now so we’re a ‘tool of the devil’ I have been told I have been possessed by the devil in so many ways…
John: Do you understand why you got involved in the first place?
Horace: Yes - we’re a lot more balanced about our view on life now. We had wanted a specific answer about what we need from life. But there isn’t one definite thing, there's a whole series of choices, a whole load of questions ..
Clare: People do generally mature and come out these cults, usually because they are disillusioned in some way. But if people round them have been hostile and unsupportive, then it can be very difficult to find anyone to talk to. It’s always important to leave a door open…"
