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You and Yours - Transcript 大象传媒 Radio 4 |
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TX: 19.07.07 - Stem cell doctor suspended PRESENTER: LIZ BARCLAY |
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THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 大象传媒 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. BARCLAY Finally an update on a story we've been following on You and Yours affecting hundreds of patients who've been travelling abroad for controversial stem cell treatment for conditions like Motor Neurone Disease and Multiple Sclerosis. Carolyn Atkinson is here. Carolyn, what's the current situation? ATKINSON Well stem cell treatments are not allowed in the UK so British patients have been going abroad, more recently and geographically perhaps the closest Holland and Belgium. Now the doctor involved in some of these stem cell treatments has been a Dr Robert Trossell who was sending patients to Rotterdam and more recently to Antwerp. He was registered as a doctor in the UK and he was registered with the General Medical Council, the GMC. Now back in January we reported that the GMC had put restrictions on his registration - I've got those restrictions here - there were eight conditions and they included things like telling the GMC if he was going to work outside the UK and also banning him from carrying out or managing, promoting, or even supervising any medical treatment involving stem cells. BARCLAY Well there have been developments in this case, how have things moved on? ATKINSON Well the Interim Orders Panel, that's the title for the GMC's sort of group of people, they've met again - they hold their meetings in secret - so they met and they have decided to suspend Dr Trossell, right through till July 2008. Now that is one stage beyond having those restrictions imposed on his registration but I must emphasise it is not being struck off. But what he can't do is practice, which means he has had about his 700 or so privileges, which every doctor has, he's losing all those privileges at the moment, so that's everything from seeing a patient, prescribing drugs, diagnosing - he can't do any of those things at the moment. BARCLAY What then has happened for them to take this decision? ATKINSON Well we don't actually know in detail but there are two possibilities. Either they have evidence that he's broken some of the restrictions on his registration that they had imposed in January or some new matter has come to light - we don't know which it is at the moment. What we do know though is that to take this decision the GMC thinks there is some very good reason why Dr Trossell should not be seeing patients in this country at the moment. BARCLAY Well on the line is Professor Orla Hardiman, a consultant neurologist at the National Centre for Neuroscience in Dublin and a clinical professor at the Trinity College, Dublin. Professor Hardiman, stem cell treatments are very controversial and some patients report excellent results, others say it did nothing for them, in your view do you think there's anything in it? HARDIMAN Well I think there's certainly a potential for stem cell therapy but I'm afraid this is far too early to be using stem cells in humans for any of the neuro-degenerative diseases that you're talking about, particularly Motor Neurone Disease. Indeed the [indistinct word] work hasn't been terribly illuminating either. So I think the idea that people should be seeking stem cell therapy is really a function of their desperation while facing such a horrible progressive disease as Motor Neurone Disease. And people who are desperate like this they'll clutch at anything, they'll pursue any avenue regardless of the evidence. They may also feel that the drug can benefit but really unfortunately there isn't really any evidence whatsoever that stem cell therapy has any therapeutic benefit whatsoever. BARCLAY So are you saying then that people who are desperate enough are being exploited? HARDIMAN I think there's a serious exploitation, I think there are ethical considerations but there are considerations around the potential exploitation of this vulnerable group as well. The ethical issues of whether the treatment is beneficial or harmful and the likelihood of success. But when you enter another element, which is a financial incentive, which is what these stem cell companies are undertaking, there's a financial incentive for them to attract people, then that's exploitation and that's really to be abhorred. BARCLAY And do you think that more controls are needed? HARDIMAN I think that the non-permissibility or not allowing stem cell therapy in humans in the UK and Ireland is appropriate, I mean we should not be permitting stem cell therapies until such time as there's an evidence base to support their use. Under strict guidelines there may be some potential for using stem cell therapies from an experimental perspective but that'll be subject to the severe rigours of ethics committees within hospitals and universities. BARCLAY But practitioners who offer these treatments argue that the medical establishment is dragging its feet and lagging behind, thereby making patients suffer. HARDIMAN Yes but the practitioners that provide these stem cells have a serious financial incentive here - they charge patients for stem cell therapy - and of course it's in their financial interests to maintain that the regulations and the concerns that we have, which are based on the lack of an evidence base, are erroneous, they're not, these are based on proper - the proper channels that we use to support ethical and scientifically validated evidence based research. BARCLAY Professor Hardiman thank you. Carolyn, back to Dr Trossell. Is he being investigated in other countries? ATKINSON Yes on You and Yours we discovered that after he was being banned from doing stem cell treatments in Holland the Dutch health inspectorate were investigating and they still are. He was sending people to Antwerp in Belgium - the Belgium authorities were investigating and I've just confirmed this morning that the public prosecutor in Antwerp is still investigating. BARCLAY Carolyn, thank you. 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