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You and Yours - Transcript 大象传媒 Radio 4 |
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TX: 03.03.08 - Independent Living Strategy PRESENTER: LIZ BARCLAY |
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Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 大象传媒 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. BARCLAY Disability campaigners have for a long time been calling for disabled people to be able to enjoy independent living, having the same choice, control and freedom as other people. Well this morning Anne McGuire, the disability minister, launched the government's new independent living strategy. ACTUALITY - ANNE MCGUIRE ... Can I just say by way of introduction that it is the belief of this government that every single disabled person should be able to choose how they live their lives. But we also recognise that for too many disabled people that is not a reality. And that's why ... BARCLAY Anne McGuire, launching the government's new independent living strategy, this morning Peter White's been following the story, Peter. WHITE Yes Liz. Two years ago the government made a commitment, personally endorsed by then Prime Minister Tony Blair, to enable disabled people to live independently at home, at work and in the community by 2025. It's widely acknowledged that currently disabled people don't have those same choices and control as non-disabled people do because of inadequate care packages, fewer employment and education opportunities and difficulties with access to services and transport. Well our reporter Alan Beach was at the strategy launch this morning and he spoke to Jenny Morris, who's the executive director to the Independent Living Review Strategy. What makes this strategy different to previous ones? MORRIS Well what's new in this strategy does try and address some of the key things that disabled people have told us about the barriers they face. So, for example, there's too much time and resources tied up in somebody getting an assessment of what their needs are. And that assessment isn't always led by them. So there's a commitment in this strategy to demonstrate how to do assessments and to decide what needs to be done as a result of that assessment in a way that enables the disabled person to be in the driving seat of that assessment and that decision making. BEACH Now it's a strategy will it make a real difference, I mean what chance is there that the government will implement any of your recommendations? MORRIS This strategy is not about recommendations, it's actually a signed up - all the different government departments have signed up to over 50 commitments in this strategy, so we're not making recommendations, this is the government saying what they're going to do. So, for example, one of the things that disabled people have told us is that the government has done a lot on trying to enable disabled people to get into work but possibly not enough to enable disabled people to remain in work when, for example, they might acquire a disability or their existing disability gets worse. So there's a commitment in this strategy to actually doing something on that, to try and make sure that when people do experience additional barriers in employment that those barriers will be addressed. BEACH Why do we need this at all if we have the Disability Discrimination Act? MORRIS Well the Disability Discrimination Act protects disabled people from discrimination, so, for example, it says to a shopkeeper you can't stop somebody coming in to use your shop. But the DDA does not actually say to the disabled person we will give you the support that you might need - the assistance or the equipment that you might need - to get to the shop. So that's why we need a transformation of social care so that people can actually get the support they need to just go about their ordinary lives. WHITE Jenny Morris. Well many disabled campaigners believe they'll only get these kinds of choices and freedom when their rights are guaranteed by law. Well last week Lord Ashley's Independent Living Bill completed its passage through the Lords, it's the second time that he's tried to get it through Parliament, it was lost for the lack of time and government support and in the coming weeks Labour MP and long time disability campaigner Roger Berry will be steering this new bill through the Commons. But given the government's strategy document why did he think we still needed it? BERRY Most of the local authorities in England only provide support for people with the highest level of need and this has been described by government ministers as being entirely unacceptable. So first of all needs not being met and the second important thing is people have to be assessed for a number of social security benefits for entitlements to housing, adaptations, care packages - the system really is not enabling disabled people to have choice and control over their lives. WHITE But the government has made it absolutely clear that they accept all that - we've had those statements from Gordon Brown in our social care series that we did - can't you have confidence in the fact that they are now actually going to address this issue? BERRY There are many people, many of my constituents, who are waiting ages for adaptations to their home environment and care packages aren't even portable from local authority to the next door local authority. These circumstances do not enable disabled people to live in any sense independently in the same way that non-disabled people can. WHITE Your bill - it would place a duty on local authorities, as you say, to provide services to enable people to live independently, how much will it cost to implement the measures contained in the bill? BERRY Those who drafted the bill - the Disability Rights Commission, the former Disability Rights Commission, the National Centre for Independent Living - they drafted the bill, they can't put a figure on an ultimate cost ... WHITE So is that the government's worry - that this is an open cheque they'd be signing? BERRY Well you can save money, for example, if you enable people to live in their own homes, that means that it will be much later in life they'll go into residential care. And of course if more disabled people are enabled to work by being given the proper support there are tax revenues from that. WHITE This bill, although the government supports its aims, it won't be given government time, has it any real hope of succeeding? BERRY I would like to see this bill on the statute book but if that's not going to be the case then I want a strong government response to, of their own accord, implement measures that are essential to meeting the same objectives that we share. It's part of a campaign to get some movement on issue frankly that should have been addressed a number of years ago. WHITE Roger Berry. Well no sign of a change of heart about backing that current bill in the document, the best its supporters will find in the strategy is an undertaking to look at legislation again in 2013, based on the success of their policies up to that point. Well this morning's document is full of phrases and words such as encourage, promote, give better access to but you have to look quite hard for real substantive proposals as opposed to good intentions. Not much talk either about the increased resources most disabled people believe will be necessary to make a real difference. I put the absence of references to anymore money to the minister for disabled people Anne McGuire. MCGUIRE It's about changing the culture, changing the attitude and putting independence and control in the hands of disabled people, saying what they think independent living is about, it's about disabled people being part of that process. WHITE So what do you think are the key things that this strategy gives and how - what difference from today will disabled people notice? MCGUIRE Well I think what the strategy will deliver is a boost - a springboard - to a different kind of culture within our whole social care system and indeed within the support for disabled people in employment, the support for those who want to move around on transport. WHITE But if you're really serious about giving disabled people more choice and freedom to ensure independent living why won't you ensure that the bill passes, I mean disabled people of all people know from experience that you need laws to fight for rights - 18 attempts to get a disability discrimination act wasn't it? MCGUIRE Yes that's true and the Disability Discrimination Act and the strengthening and the deepening of the act since 1997 have given us perhaps the most robust discrimination or anti-discrimination legislation in - probably in the world. WHITE So isn't that good justification for having legislation - you know it works? MCGUIRE No I think sometimes you have to say is legislation always the appropriate way of dealing with change? I would suggest that in this circumstance we have the independent living strategy, we've got the life chances report, we are prepared to review the situation on legislation if sufficient progress has not been made. WHITE But does that mean there is no more money? MCGUIRE No you're not going to trap me on this one. WHITE No I'm not trying to trap you, I'm trying to ask you whether there's anymore money - it's not a trap? MCGUIRE I've said within the document we do recognise that in some areas there will need to be additional resources. WHITE You've got a commitment - the government has a commitment that disabled people will be able to live fully independently by 2025, are you going to meet that commitment, are you on course for that commitment? MCGUIRE Well I think yes we are on course to meet that commitment. We can see the dramatic changes that are happening, as I've said, individualised budgets, the independent living strategy, the way in which we're building in additional support for disabled people in employment, moving into employment and to routine employment if they become disabled during their working lives. All of these are part of the wider strategy. The life chances report frames the work that we are doing and today I think is another great step on the road to that equality commitment and we will achieve it by 2025 and I hope that you and I will still be around to discuss it. WHITE We'll see. Minister thank you very much indeed. MCGUIRE Thanks very much Peter. WHITE Anne McGuire. The document is now up for consultation, the closing date for contributions is 20th June. Back to the You and Yours homepage The 大象传媒 is not responsible for external websites |
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