Following as Best Supporting Actress for The White Lotus to create more great roles for mature women. In our latest blog post featuring guests discussing the topics that they feel are affecting the industry, we caught up with Tamzin to find out more.
*CONTENT WARNING: This video contains strong language*
What stood out for you about Jennifer Coolidge鈥檚 win at the Golden Globes in The White Lotus. What was it about that role and performance that stimulated you to tweet?
I think that she鈥檚 an incredible performer and the role and the show () are brilliant, and I love it, but what really made it stand out for me was her acceptance speech. It really hit home because we have times in our career, I think, as women of a certain age, that we remember as fruitful. There are times that are fruitful and there are times which aren鈥檛, and I loved the way she spoke about that. To employ a woman who has been in the industry for an awfully long time and at times has been more successful than at others, and to get to a stage where she鈥檚 standing in front of the whole Hollywood Foreign Press (and the world in a way) and for her to be able to say that there were times when work was thin on the ground, that really resonated.
She spoke about how that one man, (The White Lotus creator and writer), took what was, in her head, a chance on her. But to me it doesn鈥檛 look like taking a chance. She seemed so humble and so grateful in her speech, but she did such an amazing job in the series that if I was a Producer or Commissioner or running a channel then I鈥檇 think that she was a safe bet.
It seems like Mike White was a bit of a guardian angel for her, and we all need those at times, someone who champions you. I鈥檝e had a few people like that in my life.
Why do you think her speech had such a big response?
Her speech in general smacked of someone who had lived a life but wasn鈥檛 done yet. Who felt not just that she was being appreciated again in her 60s but felt 鈥淚鈥檓 doing a bang-up job of being a woman in my 60s in this industry鈥�. Jennifer Coolidge showed us that it isn鈥檛 just about making a living. The passion and the gratitude that she showed for her career is also very deep inside me. I still feel that one day I鈥檒l be 鈥榝ound out鈥� 鈥� the imposter syndrome.
When you look at you don鈥檛 think of an old woman. She was flying the flag for all of us over 50s, even late 40s women who have moved out of the 鈥榡uve鈥� lead. Who are reading scripts where the role is the Mum or the Gran 鈥� sometimes I鈥檓 even a Nan now 鈥� It struck a chord not just with me, but there are an awful lot of brilliant actors out there who I think have been side-lined when they get to a certain age. I suppose what we should be asking ourselves is 鈥渋nstead of a 40-year-old man playing that role, could a 50-year-old woman?鈥�
It鈥檚 amazing that one win and one speech can start such a movement for women who feel the same.
From your experience how have the scripts and roles you are offered evolved during your career?
It鈥檚 a first for me to seem like a champion for older women in this industry, because I鈥檝e never been this age before! This is a first for me to get to being 50 years old and suddenly the roles aren鈥檛 there. They are a lot thinner on the ground. When you鈥檙e reading something, the parts are smaller. But watching the shows that I like to watch and the ones that have had such a massive impact recently 鈥� Happy Valley, The White Lotus 鈥� they have older women in lead roles. If they are so successful and so needed and so championed, then why do we not have more? We could do with a few more women like Happy Valley's and at the forefront of Drama and Comedy.
I鈥檝e worked a lot with who has written a few things with me in mind but the responses that we have had from the industry have often been along the lines of 鈥渋t鈥檚 not our demographic鈥�. Most people seem to be chasing after the 15鈥�25-year-old demographic, but that age group are not watching television. I鈥檓 in that audience who still sit and put on 大象传媒 One, ITV, Channel 4, and I feel like we鈥檙e not seeing ourselves very much, but when we are then it鈥檚 lauded and celebrated.
Women are not seeing ourselves on TV as we really are. The women that I know who are over 50 are funny and sexy and interesting and clever and bright and sparky. They don鈥檛 take any sh*t! They are very interesting to watch. I loved Alma鈥檚 Not Normal, it鈥檚 all women, crazy personalities, it was so refreshing to watch. But there are very minimal projects either for us to audition for, meet for or read but also for us to watch. For a woman who still feels like she鈥檚 in her 30s it feels like we鈥檙e not really done yet, we鈥檙e not ready to be shelved at a certain age just because you鈥檙e not the juvenile lead. There are interesting, funny characters to be written, watched, and played by women of an older age.
To be fair I feel very lucky to have made a living and had a range of diverse jobs across theatre, TV and film but I don鈥檛 feel 鈥榙one鈥�. The stuff I鈥檓 reading now is mainly much smaller roles, which I鈥檓 fine with if it鈥檚 an interesting role. To give an example, I鈥檓 in the next series of ITV's and I鈥檓 very proud of it. It鈥檚 quite harrowing, it鈥檚 right up my street really. I play the Nan. That works because of the nature of the role you believe that she would have had her kids young, but I suppose that is now the area I鈥檓 going into. But I had my actual kids 鈥榣ate鈥�, I was 37 and 41, so I鈥檝e still got a 10-year-old. I also have a 32-year-old man, so of course I still feel in my 30s, but the reality of it is that I don鈥檛 really see that on the screen. We鈥檝e made great moves forward in other areas, but I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 necessarily true of ageism. And I鈥檓 not unusual now to have young kids at my age.
You don鈥檛 see female characters over 50 running around like a 30-year-old unless they鈥檙e some kind of 鈥榗ougar鈥�. I鈥檓 looking for older women鈥檚 roles which are written in a beautiful, rounded way where there are loads of different characteristics you can tap into, not just a broad brushstroke of 鈥楽he鈥檚 a Nan鈥� or 鈥楽he鈥檚 a cougar鈥�. But why does it still feel so unusual for the women to be older and the men to be younger? It doesn鈥檛 have to come under the umbrella of a 鈥榗ougar鈥� show or a teacher/student relationship that shouldn鈥檛 have happened. It never seems to be two people happy in love. I read things and think 鈥榃hy is he 50 and she鈥檚 30?鈥�, and that seems to come right down from Hollywood.
Do you think the problem lies with writers not creating these fully rounded and nuanced roles for more mature women? Or does it lie elsewhere in the industry?
I don鈥檛 think the problem is the writing, there is a flow of creativity coming from writers that seems to be three dimensional and rich and colourful. I鈥檝e had many writers get in touch with me since the tweet and say 鈥淭hat鈥檚 all I write, I鈥檝e got four projects, I only write for mature women鈥�. But if the feedback from industry is 鈥渢hat鈥檚 not our demographic鈥� then there鈥檚 nothing writers can do 鈥� except for get it made yourself - but that鈥檚 easier said than done.
Where are the people who are making programmes for my demographic? I think the plays, the TV scripts and film scripts are out there. Maybe Jennifer Coolidge has just made it a bit 鈥榗ooler鈥� and things will change?
How important do you think it is that writers have the same life experience as the characters they write?
I don鈥檛 think writers need to have the same experience, but they do need to have an understanding. They need an understanding of the human psyche and where that person might be in their life.
What would be your advice to budding writers who want to include more mature female roles in their work even if they are not from that demographic themself?
Maybe younger writers could spend some time with some women over 50. Whether that means going and having a drink, shadowing them. I鈥檓 not trying to sound patronising, but I think with much younger writers they need to be reminded of how youthful a 50-year-old woman is now. We are not in a rocking chair and knitting! With how people live much longer and healthier lives now on the whole the narrative of what a woman over 50 is like feels like it needs rewriting.
And once we hit 50 women don鈥檛 all fall into one category (although I do think that more mature women tend to have developed greater emotional intelligence). There鈥檚 still a massive, colourful range of women who are completely different from one another and they鈥檙e desperate to see themselves on telly. I would sit down and watch most things that have women in who are over the age of 45 and all of my friends feel the same. I also think writers don鈥檛 need to shy away from tough subject matter when writing mature female roles.
When these characters are given a chance - we see that in the writing of Sally Wainwright, Sharon Horgan, the late Kay Mellor - their shows are brilliant. But there are more than just ten great writers for women. The main thing is that women are shown authentically, that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e all striving for.
In the end this isn鈥檛 a gripe, it鈥檚 just an observation. If Jennifer Coolidge can create such massive waves with a character that鈥檚 drawn beautifully then think how women would feel represented if there was one character like that in every programme?
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(Editor's note: The title has been updated to WRITING TODAY - Please write more great characters for women over 50 to more accurately reflect the content of the interview.)