´óÏó´«Ã½

Looking good! I'll have to try this out later tonight :)

On a side note, are there any plans to put the ´óÏó´«Ã½ software in distro repositories?

Great.

So what is now stopping you making iPlayer available for AppleTV?

It was announced you were considering doing this last January. I have been able to watch YouTube on this device since June, I look forward to the iPlayer being available soon.

Once I've downloaded using this new product, can I side-load to my N95?

"...Click the install button and follow the on screen prompts...."

Er... which install button is that? I don't see one.

... and the link to iPlayer Labs is 404.

+1 for gromit1704's mention (#2) of AppleTV support. Time to get iPlayer working on home media devices as well as the plethora of gaming and mobile devices that have come online over the last year.

A highlight of yesterday's launch was the incredibly smooth installation process (for me on a PC and Mac anyway) - particularly when compared to the initial iPlayer Beta process in Autumn 2007.

But a lowlight was the lack of content to download. Never Mind the Buzzcocks being the notable exception.


Any idea when the majority of content (including non-network from nations and regions) will become available for download on the new iPlayer Desktop?


Interested to read too about the move away from P2P and back to direct download from the ´óÏó´«Ã½ and any edge cache servers ISPs may wish to employ.

It was only at lunchtime today that I was applauding the fact that a 30 minute episode of Screenwipe downloaded (old PC client) in less than 10 minutes the other night - which was so much faster than a few months ago, and faster than many 4oD downloads too - as if critical mass had been reached to make P2P really viable and efficient!

I've downloaded and installed iPlayer Desktop and managed to download one programme (the only one I could find with a download link available).

As this is beta (and "labs") software, I'm surprised there isn't some obvious way for us to send feedback to the ´óÏó´«Ã½. Such a feature could be built-in to the application, but in the meantime, where is the link to the people in the ´óÏó´«Ã½ who need to know what issues users are having?

Took me all day to work throug the muddled and confused process of installing on linux. When I finally managed to download some programs they would not play as they were unavailable. How can something on my computer be unavailable.

The iPlayer and its instructions and help are scattered all over your site. I suggest you streamline everything and make it more accessible.

I fail to see why the ´óÏó´«Ã½ are creating this player at all. Essentially, while claiming to be public service and open, the ´óÏó´«Ã½ are embracing a proprietary technology (Air) and stifling competition by creating a closed player.
Imagine if the broadcast division used a non-standard broadcast standard and produced their own Set Top Box for watching it. Quite rightly, that would be condemmed - yet when it comes to software, it is supported.
This is quite simply wrong. By all means support broadcasting on the Internet, but do it by publishing your formats - even if you do have to support DRM.
I, as a software developer, should have the option to create a player for ´óÏó´«Ã½ net content, exactly the same as I, as a hardware developer, am free to create a TV.
I view this as especially bad that the ´óÏó´«Ã½ have invested considerable money in order to support less than 5% of PC users. I appreciate that Mac/Linux users make 90% of the noise, but that should not bother the ´óÏó´«Ã½ as a public service organisation.

iPlayer is fantastic, and keeps getting better and better. Very much looking forward to the update in February to see what new features you can roll out. Us linux users are used to software that is constantly being developed and it's great to finally see iPlayer on my laptop, even in a Beta state.

There's so much potential for the software to really take off and change the nature of television completely.

BagEmk makes valid points about using closed-source and proprietary software, but I suppose the nature of DRM means it has to be done. I'm sure lots of iPlayer users are looking forward to the day we can download all of the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s past and present TV content completely DRM-free; after all, we do pay a £150 a year 'subscription'.

" Some users told us that they didn't like P2P - it used their CPU, used their upload bandwidth, slowed their computer." My complaint precisely and I wrote to draw it to your attention. Whilst I am sure that a single voice did not sway your decision (rater than economics) I am still thankful, as I am for your adoption of platform neutrality. Not completely satisfied though, when will HD be available?

Excellent news. Would everyone stop whining.

Excellent work, and I do second the comment about whining.

Any news on an Android implementation ? With 48 firms now signed up to the Open Handset Alliance an Android implementation could potentially have the widest reach on to mobile devices.

The fact that I have a Google G1 is by the by !

Excellent News! Have installed the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Iplayer Desktop and look forward to its development - glad you have made the switch from P2P which I found a bit painful on the Windows Platform.
Running this on a MAC and glad youre working on so many options.
Keep up the good and innovative work youre doing.

All good... but why did you have to use the word "gotten"? Caused me shivers of annoyance before I've even had a coffee.

It's all looking good - once the majority of shows are saved to the servers with the right keys for Mac/Linux downloads it'll be fab.

So, higher resolution in time, which is nice. How about allowing we Mac users download in formats suitable for iPods? Other portable devices are supported, I note, so I'm hoping it'll just be a matter of time.

BagEmk: I'm afraid your free software dogma is blinding you to the possibilities of pragmatism - so often the way.

'stifling competition': Is there much demand to create competing and entirely different players and user experiences for iPlayer content? I don't think so. Who would that benefit, apart from the few software engineers who have the spare time to tinker with it?

'I, as a software developer, should have the option to create a player for ´óÏó´«Ã½ net content, exactly the same as I, as a hardware developer, am free to create a TV' - You're comparing apples and oranges I'm afraid.

And again - who would this benefit, apart from yourself and a few of your mates? Try and think about the several million license fee payers who don't know the first thing about MPEG4 containers and long GOP codecs and just want their online video to work, consistently, first time.

The ´óÏó´«Ã½ appear to have made a pragmatic decision to utilise the only broadly cross-platform runtime solution to deliver its promise to support workable downloads for the vast majority of license fee payers where it is feasible, all whilst balancing the requirements of the content owners with DRM, and have gone out to the market to supply the underpinning technology that rather than spending millions of pounds of license fee money on reinventing the wheel. A sound decision in my view.

The Iplayer seems to be a great start, I'm quite into this RIA malarky that seems to be almost all the rage at the moment...

However, being the fussy customer that I am, I'd like an option to run the application alwaysInFront of other windows - so that I can watch and work at the same time!

Also, it would be cool to be able to browse for content directly in the iplayer desktop application - also, and why not add streaming as well as downloading :)

One negative point for me is that resizing the app when viewing video is slightly annoying.. I don't want it to snap the size of the application window to the width and height of the video!!

Oh, resizing the video makes the video look pretty bad too, does it have video.smoothing = true ? (add an option in settings maybe?)

Other than this - Cool, thanks!!

When you say PC don't you mean Windows?

Hmm. There is some interesting feedback to my comments.
Let's be clear, I'm NOT in favour of the free software religion. I believe on this one it is the ´óÏó´«Ã½ that preach "free software". However, for them it means "supporting the Linux/Mac" - not supporting open source. At that point, the ´óÏó´«Ã½ become hypocritical and offer us a closed system.
As a result, we're stuck with "The ´óÏó´«Ã½ iPlayer". No choices. No alternative interfaces. No support on any platform other than those the ´óÏó´«Ã½ decide are worthwhile.... and I think the ´óÏó´«Ã½ make those choices based upon very flawed criteria.
Take the iPhone for example: they had support as soon as the iPhone launched in the UK. Why? There wasn't exactly a market. Even today, iPhone sales in the UK are pittifully small compared to anything else.
Providing Linux support is all well and good, but it shouldn't be through this method. Linux guys promote open-source - then give them an Open Source solution.
Public money should not be used to subsidise the minorities in this way. Sure provide a reference implementation on the most popular platform (Windows). But then stop.
If this happened, and the ´óÏó´«Ã½ published protocols, then by now we'd have iPlayer content in Windows Media Centre, MythTV, on every PDA or smartphone... And we'd have a decent UI option that doesn't look like it was designed by a "fit as much on the screen" techie.
We'd probably even have TVs and STB offering iPlayer services built in. Today, that can only happen with the ´óÏó´«Ã½ approval and as far as I know, only Virgin has that.
Another concern is that this is going to get worse: the ´óÏó´«Ã½ now want to hook ITV, C4 etc into the same system.
Choice? Fair use of public funds... Clearly not.

Before, I complain I have been looking forward to this for ages.

Sadly, yes you knew it was coming, I don't bleeding work.

First, I am signed up for Labs, and I have the tech spec. The download of Air was damaged so I get a message, in essence, saying 'Sorry, it doesn't work. Find it somewhere else.' No link, nothing. Not an issue but for those doing this sort of thing for the first time it may be an issue.
I download Air. Fine. Seems to be OK. Back to iP. Download the player. Seems to be OK.
Not a bit of it. Total failure. Screen loads, but simply links to a blank screen.

Uninstall. Download. Try again. No.

I accept downloading can be go wrong, but the lack of info provided is rubbish if a user (viewer - what are we now?) was unsure of what to do. The Help page is not much help either.

Off to try again. I know it is in Beta, but surely this has been tested beyond the MS beta (lack of) standard?

I love iPlayer (can't remember the last time I used my TV for ´óÏó´«Ã½1 and ´óÏó´«Ã½2 as the reception is rubbish). Please fix it.

By the by the way No 15. See Sat's Times for the background on gotten. Entirely useable.

Hurrah. On the third download it seems to work. Downloading QI and listening to it (I would be watching but typing this.)
As I said before, I love iPlayer.

No. It downloads, but does not work - a comment I have read many time on forums this evening. will try again. It is a Beta... but seemingly not a very Beta Beta.

A much more elegant solution using the excellent Adobe Air. I gave up using the download option because of the Windows Media format and the horrid P2P Kontiki client. I am however using this, and the future claims of downloading radio, favourites and pre-bookings are very welcome. I would love to see advanced features, such as signing in with your ´óÏó´«Ã½ account on a remote device such as a phone or a PC at work and enqueing it to download to your computer at home (push style) or maybe even registering your phone number with your ´óÏó´«Ã½ account, so you could display a code to text during a trailer for a show, that enqueues it to your PC there and then, or next time you open iPlayer Desktop.

Whilst I don't like DRM, I realise without it, the license fee may double, and its an evil the ´óÏó´«Ã½ are trying their best to work around.

However I would hope the TV guide will soon be accessible from inside the iPlayer Desktop App, maybe pre-caching so you can choose the show even when offline, and then download it when online again, instead of having to go to a web browser in order to find content. Rather large oversight for me, this one.

Oh, and another feature to suggest.

How about an option to open videos in a slimly chromed seperate window that can be left always on top? Many people will be watching content whilst working on other things, thats the nature of a multi-tasking PC. I'm having to use Power Menu to let me do this currently, but all the chrome cannot be hidden. Very frustrating.

hmm, are you for real Anthony..... i already pay top wack for my VM bandwidth.


".....
The comments by the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s head of digital media technology Anthony Rose reopen a contentious debate about how to pay for the bandwidth consumed by iPlayer, which ISPs have complained strains their already marginal profit structures.

Tiscali suggested that the ´óÏó´«Ã½ should pay ISPs to carry the traffic, while the Corporation played down the impact of the player's success.

Now Rose has suggested that further improvements to the current 800Kbit/s top quality iPlayer streams may require ISP customers to pay more as part of a tiered service model.

Within three months the ´óÏó´«Ã½ might offer streams at 1.5Mbit/s, he said, and suggested ISPs should charge customers more to receive them.

....."

BTW , your so called linux Iplayer app DOES NOT work on PPC linux, such as the PS3 can use.....


your saying we pay upto £10 for the service, we cant use, no way, AFAIK its not legal under Uk consumer contract law to charge for a service the customer cant actually access and use.

I am glad you have moved away from P2P. I insisted on installing the previous download manager in a Virtual Machine because of all the rubbish it installed.

On the other hand I will miss the Windows Media DRM - because it's Xbox 360 compatible.
You could download a file, share it using Windows Media Player 11, and watch it on your 32 inch TV. It's great... and a shame it's going away. A great system that meets all the DRM requirements, it's 100% legal, almost "to good to be true" (well, it is now!)

Without being able to watch downloads on my TV via Xbox, I fail to see the advantage over streaming. The extra quality won't be noticed on my laptop's screen. It's more a convenience option, for when the Net is busy.

I would like to see some option for streaming/watching content on the 360, after all, Wii owners get this.

I would also love to see a schedule option, so just like a tape recorder (remember them?), your favourite show will be ready to watch when you are. Many times I go out knowing I will miss a show, and therefore download it when I get home. Having iPlayer go off and fetch it for me would be great.

So some nice improvements (no more P2P!) but some very sad losses. A mixed bag in my opinion.

Still no downloads for us Mac G5 users, only newer Intel machines.

Shame about that as I would have thought there were more G5 's than Intel Macs in use.

Hi Anthony

Sorry to hijack the topic, but like pippip99 I'm rather alarmed by your proposal that ISPs should be charging an iplayer fee on top of their standard broadband tariffs.

Everyone involved is already paying for the bandwidth consumed by iplayer traffic - I pay for mine, my iplayer peers pay for theirs and you (the ´óÏó´«Ã½) presumably pay for yours. ISPs are holding an untenable position: that they should somehow be compensated for the mysterious practice of their customers using the bandwidth that they've purchased.

This is nonsensical - if I'm paying for 50GB per month my ISP has no grounds for complaining when I use it, whether the majority comes from iplayer, youtube, online gaming or whatever else takes my fancy. If I'm paying for an 'unlimited' connection the ISP had better damn well make sure that the price they charge me reflects the burden I will impose on their infrastructure.

Bottom line: ISPs in general have created their pricing structures in the expectation that customers will consume far less bandwidth than they're entitled to. Services like iplayer are invalidating these expectations. The solution is not for the ´óÏó´«Ã½ or the consumer to pay an additional iplayer tax; the solution is for the ISPs to get their house in order, adjust their business model to fit reality and stop making promises that they can't fulfil.

(A final thought: in any sane industry, an jump in demand for a service would be cause for celebration and bonuses all round. In the ISP industry it's apparently cause for dismay and demands for recompense. Something here is clearly broken, but it's got nothing to do with iplayer.)

"The whole DRM thing is a red herring, really. If it was all about the content the ´óÏó´«Ã½ doesn't own itself, I'm not sure why it doesn't make the programming that it does available for download for seven days in unencumbered H.264 format?"

Because it doesn't own any content entirely at all to all intents and purposes.

Phazer

"I'm not sure it's as black-and-white as that."

It really is. Even for in house ´óÏó´«Ã½ made shows, a significant chunk of the copyright isn't owned by the ´óÏó´«Ã½. For example, Top Gear - the background music isn't owned by the ´óÏó´«Ã½, it's owned by the music majors. If the ´óÏó´«Ã½ want to use it they have to licence it, and if they want that licence to be for permanent copies it'll cost a dozen times what it does now. The copyright in an actor's performance is effectively held in trust by Equity, who want more money for permanent copies (which is why DVD's aren't free). Writers retain their copyright. Programmes using photographs licence them from Corbis et al. The weather data comes from the Met Office, not the ´óÏó´«Ã½.

This goes on and on and on. The ´óÏó´«Ã½ owns 100% of *no* programme it transmits to the nearest percentage point.

And be careful what you wish for with the "analogue hole" - there is already space in the DVB spec for a do not record flag. It is much more likely this will be turned on than the DRM on iPlayer will ever go anywhere allowing for permanent copies. Much, much more.

Phazer

Having championed P2P for so long, I'll bet the decision to shelve it was tough for you.

Wishing you well for 2009!

nevali:

It seems like double standards to me. A few thousand Mac users complain they can only stream, rather than download and the whole thing gets changed to the detriment of many other users.

Let's face it, ALL DRM can be stripped if you can be bothered and have the time (although Vista makes it a lot harder with DRM at the driver level). This doesn't stop the ´óÏó´«Ã½ streaming in QuickTime format for iPhones, of which there are numerous ways to capture and save to disk (DRM free).

What about XBox 360 owners that want to be able to do what Wii owners can do?
They may not be as vocal as the Mac users (of which many work in the media).
I used to use a Mac, I know that feeling of having some stuff not work (it was a lot worse back then, circa 2002), but hey I chose a Mac that was my informed decision (incidently, I am now a Windows programmer, so I've switched sides and not looked back.)

I appreciate the ´óÏó´«Ã½ can't please everyone, and I am glad to see the back of P2P. However it seems like the ´óÏó´«Ã½ feel they have to back away from Microsoft technologies to look P.C. If one console gets streaming, then others should. It's as simple as that. If FreeView only worked with Sony boxes, we would rightly complain.

The solution is simple, offer both. Scrap the P2P, but offer an option to "download for XBox 360" like the ´óÏó´«Ã½ do for the Nokia N96. Apart from the extra resources placed on Microsoft's encoding CPUs, what downsides are there to this?

Time to stop debating. Consumers want

- DRM-free downloads
- Formats they can play: almost universally H264 which is the new broadcast standard for all platforms from HD to mobile phones

So, ´óÏó´«Ã½, get on our side and provide this. If this means a battle with Equity, go to it. And get the Government and the law on our side.

syganymede:
DRM Free won't happen because the rights holders fear it would eat into DVD sales.

It would be like a radio station offering up free MP3 files of all the songs they played. Not going to happen is it?

If you want DRM Free, then get yourself a £20 TV Tuner, plug it into any computer (I recommend Vista if you want to be able to transcode using Movie Maker, for free)

I know it's stupid, but with a £20 device you can record all the TV you want, and transcode it into Divx, WMV, MOV, for your iPod, Xbox, Zune, PDA - you name it, you could even take out the audio and make a podcast.

iPlayer is just more convenient. It's a LOT quicker to download a file than transcode it.

All I am saying is the ´óÏó´«Ã½ should offer the same options to all groups of users. Macs, PCs, Wiis, iPods, N95s, the XBox 360. If it works for one, it should work for all of them.

It would be useful to be able to track downloads made from multiple devices used by the same user.

ie I have laptop, 2 desktops at home, another one used by my teenage son & 2 nokia phones. Would be nice to know what's downloaded where... at at least to maintain some form of user-specific history so it would be really easy to stream/download same progs on a different device (even nicer to resume from same place).

First off: Hooray for the ´óÏó´«Ã½!

Secondly, *please* can you use a mobile-download DRM which will enable me to sideload (or even better download directly!) to my N95-8GB

Thirdly, when are you going to update the Playstation 3 version of Iplayer, so that also includes downloads?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Infuriating.

Every publishing industry has had to suffer to learn that DRM does not work.

It punishes honest users in the name of stopping the few.

The few that want to beat it, will simply beat it. No DRM can not be gotten around. The music and movie industry continue to waste time, money and peoples frustration making life difficult for people that aren't doing anything wrong.

My frustration? I, like MANY spend a lot of time abroad where the iPlayer would be of huge value... but... no.

Adobe Air is a HORRIBLE platform. It's clunky and proprietary.

The web version is pretty awesome, but the Adobe Air thing is lazy and clunky.


Despite all that... it's terrific the ´óÏó´«Ã½ and people working on it are leading the way with innovation rather than digging a hole and pretending that we won't be watching all our TV via the data pipes into our houses.

Read the info below and love the idea but I can't get the Linux one working anyone got tips to help?

When we launched ´óÏó´«Ã½ iPlayer back in Dec 2007, it has been available for streaming on Window, Mac and Linux computers. But if you wanted to download our TV programmes well, that was PC only. Obviously that wasn't a satisfactory arrangement, and making our downloads available on Mac and Linux has been a major priority for us.

Today, we're really pleased to announce that ´óÏó´«Ã½ iPlayer downloads are now available for Mac and Linux as well, thanks to our new Adobe AIR-powered download manager, which we've named ´óÏó´«Ã½ iPlayer Desktop.