大象传媒

When will we see AAC radio/iPlayer streams outside of flash that could be used on other devices (iPhones, media players etc)?

When is the user login system coming into play for 大象传媒 website? So it can remember the settings wherever I log in? It was mentioned a long time ago as something in development.

Is the new sign on system for the iPlayer message board going to be withdrawn given it is quite irredeemably broken and should never have gone live in it's current state?

Phazer

Nick, I have previously complained to PM about the confusion of blogs and forums. In a forum, people can directly reply to a specific post, so a structured debate/discussion can be held. In the comments section of a blog, there is no way to reference other posts. What do you think about this?

As this is now the replacement for the Online board may I ask you to explain this comment Nick?

"Incidentally reactive moderation should be an improvement for the community - as conversations should flow more quickly."

The only moderation that affects the flow of conversation is PRE mod. I
think that reactive moderation is a reasonable thing to try but I'm afraid your statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the three
different methods of 大象传媒 moderation.

Press Red is not on the blogs list so how can i try it?

I too am interested in the elusive "identity" system that has been hinted at in past blogs. What is this meant to entail and is it any close to coming online?

Press Red is at /blogs/pressred/ - it's also mentioned on the right of the Internet Blog.

We better poke the powers that be to make sure we're on the main Blogs page!

Andrew
(of Press Red)

Why does the "why is 大象传媒 content on other websites" link under the flickr box link to the page about newstracker which isn't really relevent?

Please can you answer these one by one and put me out of my misery at not seeing these happen as yet and give me a timescale if they will happen, when or never.

128k aac+ feed for all music related audio stations ranging from 大象传媒 Local e.g 大象传媒 London 大象传媒 Devon to National 大象传媒 6 Music, 大象传媒 1 extra.
Will this happen in near future? If not when? If unlikely to happen in next 12 months please reveal.

When will the time come when I do not have to download Real Player for 大象传媒 local stations? similar to above audio quality request which is not a huge demand considering the amount of bandwidth going into iplayer TV.
Thankyou

Nick as the online board is now closed, wouldn't it make sense to post this where people can see it rather than a few minutes before the board that hosted this message was deleted:

/dna/mbpointsofview/F2131439?thread=6455810&skip=0&show=20

In future will there be direct links from POV to here, as I hold the 大象传媒 in such high regard I can assume such things are in motion as we speak.

Nick, the link to the now-closed Online board at Points of View is still in your right-hand nav. You might want to change it to link to the 大象传媒 board.

Nick, how do I delete blogs that I have made comments to? I know the convoluted way to unsubscribe from message board threads but not for blogs, ta.

Nick,
As the Online board of the Points of View Message boards is being closed today I thought I would try an experiment of an "open post".

My own silly fault, I suppose, but I hadn't understood that on the Message boards, closedmeansdeleted, whereas on the Blogs closedmeansunavailable for new comments.

Is there any way for logged-in users to access their own input to closed Message board threads? Sadly, Google doesn't seem to cache them.

@16: They're not deleted properly yet, and can still be viewed...
- Radio: /dna/mbpointsofview/F1951568
- Online: /dna/mbpointsofview/F2131439
...unfortunately I don't have the Digital board URL stored in my browser, however hopefully that helps.

Why is it my posts are disregarded every time I make one regarding radio audio quality?

Those of you asking about Identity - have you seen the 大象传媒 iPlayer Message Board recently? It looks as though it's being slowly rolled out.
Not long to wait now!

@saxux, *oh*, so that's why there was that bit of space on the right of the explore button. Very nice.

I really should have followed up #2's comment as that would have answered it for me.

Message 20 Hymagumbaa

"@saxux, *oh*, so that's why there was that bit of space on the right of the explore button. Very nice.

I really should have followed up #2's comment as that would have answered it for me."

Sorry, Hymagumbumba, but you've lost me with that - I'm just a message boards poster who doesn't have much of a clue about blogs.

No disrespect to you intended, but I know from reading a few of your previous posts you are knowledgeable in the way of the "behind the scenes " style of things with messageboards and blogs etc, but I am not and I really don't understand what you are getting at here! :)

Sorry..........

......then meant to say, can you explain to me what you mean in comment 20? Thanks :)

Hi Nippie Sweetie,

sorry about that going over your head. I'll have another go.

There's been a few blog posts on here in the past mentioning a thing called "identity" which is to be the new sign in system for bbc online. It'll be replacing the current one that i believe is called "single sign on" and was brought in in about 2002/2003(?)

Sasux, in comment 19, pointed me towards the iPlayer messageboard which is actually trialing the new system which I'd not seen before and if you go and have a look you'll see how the bits and bobs for it live on the right hand side of the big black 大象传媒 header.

Finally the bit about #2 was referring to how comment number 2 was complaining about a "new login system" and I should have put 2 + 2 together and had a look at the iPlayer message board.

Oh you might have guessed this but @sasux means I'm replying to a commennt by sasux and #2 means I'm referring to comment number 2.

That make sense?

#4 allanlewis

Allan, as Nick's #5, says, you can already reply to posts on the blog threads, though at a minimum you should quote the post number [unlike the message boards it never changes, even if the post is referred or removed] and the user's moniker. As you can see from this post, you can also use HTML formatting to automate the links. It would certainly be an improvement, though, for the 大象传媒 techies to provide a simpler mechanism of creating them.

If you're interested in using HTML, take a look at my #84 on the New ways into blogs thread and my #75 on the same thread containing more about HTML.

The 大象传媒 used to publish a guide to what could be used, but in the absence of one a number of posters have been trying to establish empirically what works and what doesn't.

#6 Frank_N_Post
"The only moderation that affects the flow of conversation is PRE mod."

Well said, Frank, and I couldn't agree more.

It's obvious that, as the Beeb's Types of moderation says, pre-moderation is needed for "[a]ll of the 大象传媒's children's message boards". It's equally obvious that post-moderation is the most satisfactory for the user because it requires no additional effort from him or her. OTOH, reactive moderation is clearly cheapest for the the Beeb but requires other users to take a more responsible attitude in shopping messages which go over the top.

Granted that the Beeb needs to protect itself against legal or other action [yesterday's 脗拢150K fine will have concentrated the collective mind wonderfully!], I cannot for the life of me understand why they don't use the other option available to them more widely. This is to make more use of account pre-moderation, as explained on Why hasn't my message appeared?.

This is surely the fairest way of ensuring that the punishment fits the crime!

Without wanting to remove the mods' flexibility entirely, I would suggest that this be codified in normal cases as something like: 10 posts pre-moderated for every message removed for breaking house rules and/or 10 posts pre-moderated for every 5 unjustified complaints about other users' messages.

The greater tolerance of unjustified complaints would, I think, be necessary to ensure users were not so concerned at the possible retribution on themselves that they failed to make complaints in marginal cases.

A move to such a moderation code should allow to move virtually all except a few threads to reactive moderation, allowing the political threads to move to post-moderation as a sort of probation, leaving only the children's threads pre-moderated.

If the 大象传媒 techies think such a schema would be hard to implement, I'm prepared to offer my technical services for free in the common weal!

Nice and simple one from me. Could you add Formula One to the list of sports options on the Home Page. I've got Motorsports selected but the first news item there says "Formula One has moved >>>>"

PS to my #16 &
#17 TheBroll

Obviously I was being a bit premature there, the messages on the closed POV Online threads seem all now to be available here.

@Brownedov
Users can access their own input to closed Message board threads by clicking on the 'Your discussions' link at the top of the Messageboard page, next to your nickname just under the POV banner.

Here are links to the closed boards:
- Radio: /dna/mbpointsofview/F1951568
- Online: /dna/mbpointsofview/F2131439
- Digital /dna/mbpointsofview/F1951572

john

#28 jtemplar
"Users can access their own input to closed Message board threads by clicking on the 'Your discussions' link at the top of the Messageboard page"

Thanks. I do realise that's the case now. The problem was that my post jumped the gun last night since temporarily the 'Your discussions' link was completely empty while the threads were being physically moved to the new Deleted category.

Message 23 Hymagumba

Thanks - yes that does make sense to me now!

#25 Brownedov

I agree that it is important that licence-payers money is not wasted in paying OffCom fines or other legal actions.

Many of us prefer posting on the 大象传媒 precisely because there is a measure of control over what we post. We don't want obscenity ridden posts, but rational (or even irrational) argument.

Account moderation seems the most sensible approach. Thos of us who have previously risked slightly risque posts would be less inclined to do so, were the punishment a return to pre-moderation.

I remember attending a 大象传媒 Conference where the Head of 大象传媒 Training said "The IT Department IS your enemy". Given a dictum from Senior Managers to avoid the risk of legal action, their response is usually to impose draconian limitations.

Account moderation is a far more appropriate system, and is clearly embedded within the 大象传媒 structures - if only they had the sense of balance to apply it.

The three and four hour delays in posts due to pre-moderation kills extensive discussion of a topic.
I do see the 大象传媒's worries over possible problems with being held liable as publisher in moving to post or reactive moderation, however that they have
a) pre-imposed an onus on posters to obey the law,
b) clear guidlines for posters as to what is an "unsuitable" post,
c) clear guidelines for posters as to what actions may be taken against them for individual and/or repeated "unsuitable" posts,
d) a warning that posts will be stored and that the Data Protection Act applies,
e) systems to identify and remove "unsuitable" posts and
f) systems to debar persistent offenders from posting
should mitigate any damage to their reputation.
My preference would be for a mixture of reactive and account moderation.

In addition to the above comments, I am led to believe that when one of us presses that "complain" button underneath a comment the comment itself vanishes and is replaced by a note saying its been referred to the mods. This should also be of some assistance should it not?

The only time I can really see pre-mod being needed is during very heated debates on HYS and when you have the type of people who went around naming Baby P's mother in defiance of the court order because "we need facts" and other such nonsense. The majority of the time I agree it's annoying.

Another thing that irritating, I've been a bbc.co.uk member since about 2002 yet upon posting on the radio 4 message board for the first time the other day I was pre-modded as if I was a brand new signup. Surely this should be global which would reduce the burden?

#33 Hymagumba
"I am led to believe that when one of us presses that "complain" button underneath a comment the comment itself vanishes and is replaced by a note saying its been referred to the mods."

Yes, occasionally it happens almost straight away when the mods pass a query up the line, but the really annoying thing is that on the political threads like Nick Robinson's and Brian Taylor's, all of the posts have already been pre-moderated - on weekday evenings the process often taking 3 to 4 hours. My guess is that less than half of those referrals are removed, and most of those are for overdoing quoting of copyright material, which the House Rules make clear is not an exact science, the rest being mainly a mixture of over-robust language and straightforward spam.

As handclapping's #32 says, there are already a raft of safeguards in place against this sort of thing.

Please mihgt the editor of 大象传媒 Two Ceefax 大象传媒 Travel pages 460, 461 and 470 consider discussing their content wihtthe relevant Government Departments in the light of the new Direct Gov pages that appear on Analogue Channel 4 Text pages 750 onwards?

None of the three pages has a Red Button equivalent on The 大象传媒.

Please could you sort out the blog list which is reached from the 大象传媒 Home Page. I suggest specialist lists of bloggers by area: News/politics, Arts Music Science (yes there is one!) Education (copy over the correspondent on News/ Education) Technology, Health, Ethics and Religion (apparently a Scottish / NI specialty, Business (not finance!) AS WELL AS the Programme Lists. And could the lurking bloggers (no posts for two months) be told to put up or 'die' and be buried!

Nick, Can you get one of your colleagues on here to explain how to Quote properly?

How do you maintain a dialogue here when there are 5 hours between posts?

What happened to the link to POV from the blog's "大象传媒 Blogs and Boards" links?

I know you've decimated (well not exactly decimated, as that means getting rid of 10%, whereas you've outdone yourself by getting rid of 60% [seximated?]) the POV boards, but surely a link back to somewhere you can "Discuss any aspect of the 大象传媒 - our policies, the licence fee, the way it is managed and governed and press coverage of the Corporation..." would be useful.

Then you wouldn't need this bizarre open blog and can instead have actual viewers and listeners tell you what's really "Interesting Stuff" to them.

It would also render the "S" on the end of Board no longer redundant.

As a replacement for the Online board this Blog is [so far] spectacularly inadequate.

Just ignore me [you were anyway, ;)] whilst I see if I can do one of those snazzy links.

Moderation

Hmm, well that's a work in progress. I created a snazzy link but not to the intended Moderation page.

Nick, I asked this of you on a message board but you didn't answer.

Why are their DOGs on the iPlayer?
The 大象传媒 has always maintained that DOGs were to help viewers navigate the 大象传媒's offer in a competitive multi channel environment. How can that be when there is only one channel on iPlayer, it is only 大象传媒, and it is presented within a window that is dominated by 大象传媒 branding? Just who is that DOG aimed at helping?

and now I have spotted my schoolboy spelling error, why is there no edit facility here? and why is the blog forced delay for posting a second post much shorter than the 3 minutes on MBs?

Now that Ceefax pages 690-694 are no longer needed for Greyhound or Horse Racing, please would 大象传媒 Information consider improving its Ceefax equivalent of the Online About Us service? I note the limited service under Contact Us on Red Button page 9990.
Firstly: Change Minicom to Textphone and 695.3 (Studio Audiences) and Red Button Page 9990 Contact Us and accompany Textphone numbers on Both Ceefax and Digital Text with 鈥渇or deaf, hearing impaired or speech impaired people鈥� rather than 鈥淭he Deaf鈥� and so on.
Make a new Page 690 as the Index for pages 691-699
Make a new Page 691 Tickets for 大象传媒 Shows and Events including 大象传媒 Proms adn othe 大象传媒 Performing Groups' Concert, Tours of 大象传媒 Buildings, Details of Doctor Who Exhibition;
Make a new Page 692 大象传媒 Shop; 大象传媒 Archive for TV and Radio; Viewing material at bfi and bfi Southbank in London , National Media Museum in Bradford ; listening at National Sound Archive in British Library;
Make a new Page 693 Contact 大象传媒 News鈥� NewsWatch; Contact 大象传媒 One鈥檚 Points of View; Contact 大象传媒 Radio 4鈥檚 Feedback;
Make a new Page 694 Contact TV Licensing;
Update Page 695 so as to include only Contact 大象传媒 Information or 大象传媒 Complaints; Contact Ofcom
Update Page 696 for 大象传媒 HR Direct: not only Jobs,but also Training and Work Experience
Page 697 大象传媒 Digital: Advice on how to go digital
Page 698 大象传媒 Reception Advice: Help receiving 大象传媒 TV and Radio thoroughtly reviewes so as to include FAQs though perhaps not the Good Ceefax Reception as this does need Good Ceefax Reception if one is to view the advice there in the first place
Page 699 A-Z Index for pages 600-698

Hello Sue_Aitch

On the Travel pages missing from 大象传媒 Red Button (460, 461 and 470), I'm afraid there's no plans at this time to add them in.

For the help pages, I'm about to go through and compare what we've got on Red Button with Ceefax to see what we should have, and what we need to re-write.

Andrew

Why can't I see the first 20 posts, even when I press the 'previous' link?

I was going to repeat my question from my first post on this blog - seeing as I'm still waiting for a response - but I can't find it.

#47 Nippie Sweetie
"Why can't I see the first 20 posts, even when I press the 'previous' link?"

The way the blogs work is very different to the way the POV message board works. Instead of getting 20 posts per "page", on the blogs [like this one!] you get up to 500 posts on a page.

If you go to the top of this thread [pressing Home usually does the trick], you should be able to see all the posts so far. Pressing PgDn should take you through them a few at a time.

re: the missing first 20 posts. Nippie is right. I get that too. It appears that if you are not logged in these inexplicably don't appear. Login, and they appear. No logic to it.

#49 Officer Dibble
"re: the missing first 20 posts. Nippie is right. I get that too."

OK. Looks like that's another thing the techies should investigate, but it seems only to apply for those coming from the message boards. If you first registered on the blogs or HYS, you get to see all the posts even when logged out [after clearing all caches, history and cookies]. I did have to go through a brief login process to enable my account for the POV threads. It could be the reverse process that has a small bug in it. If you use a freeware cleaner like , you can select which cookies to retain whenever you clean up your history. I've allowed all bbc.co.uk cookies for some years to get logged in automatically - without ill effects to date, but if you disable cookies or completely remove them from time to time, that could be the source of your problems.

For Andrew re 46

Thank you for this

I've recently spotted that Ceefax 大象传媒 Two 461 is sort of covered on the digitral NHS Choices pages now - see Freeview EPG 100 Press Blue then dial 704,
and 大象传媒 Two 470 by is covered for a lot of the content on Digitalgov on analogue Channel 4 Teletext pages 776, 793 - see also Freeview EPG 106 Press Text then select from the menu. 大象传媒 Infromation is now aware of the right phone numbers thet need to be put on the presnt Ceefax pages following HM Govermnent going to 03 and 0845 numbers in September 2008.

Brownedov

I signed out and managed to see all the comments but then when I signed back in, the first 20 posts had disappeared again.....and then the 'Post a comment' box had disappeared, so I had to sign out and back in again!

Oh well, never mind. :)

#52 Nippie Sweetie

That's beginning to sound like a browser issue. There was some discussion of this on the New Look For 大象传媒 Blogs thread, which suggested that users of Opera, Safari and Chrome have various problems with the new look, whereas Firefox and MSIE generally work OK with the new look blogs.

Do you get the same problem on the old look blogs like Blether with Brian? If so, you may have a problem either with your ISP caching the pages or with your own browser's Refresh settings.

Quote:"suggested that users of Opera, Safari and Chrome have various problems with the new look"

Or rather the 大象传媒 blogs are not compliant. half baked, mal-functioning. Why don't other blog sites have these teething problems? A: Because they buy a cheaper, professional solution that is proven.

So Nick, What is your verdict on the effectiveness of this Open Blog?

I see multiple, interwoven themes, many questions hanging on for a reply or answer, no way to reference or quote related posts, and traffic drying up for days at a time. Verdict: a useless mess.

HTML is not easy. I've just tried to show Officer Dibble how to
reference a post (in the way that Brownedov does) and paste a link
to the h2g2 page that explains links etc.

Well I've given up, I made a minor error and my copied URL disappeared.

I then tried to show how to do italic and bold and
there was an error message that I didn't understand.



Of course none of this would be too irksome if Nick would visit this
Blog and answer our questions.

Nick, you have been here twice in six days (whilst posting many times
on the 大象传媒 board). What's going on?

Thanks for trying Frank_n_post.

But this is meant for normal people who don't want to become techies to use a simple blog or message board...

Every other message board and blog has a full and working feature set... but the 大象传媒 has consistently re-invented that wheel, and failing.

The irony is, elsewhere the 大象传媒 spends money like water trying to patronise us and telling grannies to suck eggs. What a waste.

#56 Frank_N_Post
"HTML is not easy"

I fully agree, and demonstrating HTML coding in HTML is even harder because of the special coding you need to use to demonstrate the reserved characters: &lt; for < for example. It really wouldn't be hard for the 大象传媒 to publish or link to such a guide, but the really odd bit is that they don't publish a list of supported tags anywhere.

At least they have introduced "auto" links of late, so if you paste in a full URL beginning with htt.. it usually works.

#57 Officer Dibble
"But this is meant for normal people who don't want to become techies to use a simple blog or message board..."

Absolutely. I see that Yahoo are using a WYSIWYG HTML generator control on their discussion groups. Such things have been around in the public domain for a decade and are not rocket science either to install or for inexperienced users to use.

Message 50 Brownedov

"Looks like that's another thing the techies should investigate, but it seems only to apply for those coming from the message boards."

Yes, that's it Brownedov!

I logged in to the messageboards and when I came here it says that I am currently logged in, but not all messages appear.

I logged out of the messageboards, came here, logged back in here and voila, all the messages appeared.

What a palaver!

Nick, this one's for you guys to sort out.

Any idea when the 大象传媒 Parliament section will get updated? At present this site is a mess . Whilst I imagine ratings for the channel are low it is still a channel, it would be nice for that site to use the current 大象传媒 site layout. I notice the schedule page /parliament/programmes/schedules has a nicer header.

Why on the Talk Scotland page, are we only allowed to talk about River City? Is there any chance of having other topics to discuss?

There are several pages on the Talk Back: Northern Ireland and Talk Wales sites and I see that there are none at all for England!

/messageboards/newguide/messageboards_a-z.shtml

#58
Brownedov

"HTML is not easy"

"I fully agree, and demonstrating HTML coding in HTML is even harder"

Thank you for that Brownedov, I'm finding it frustrating. These Blogs are very difficult to follow without referencing, quoting etc.

Unfortunately Nick thinks that this 'Open Post' has been a 'success' and will repeat it. Having read the bbc.co.uk topic, when Peta was a Host, I have to say that I find it a very poor substitute.

Nick, can you tell us what stage Tom is at with his "improving comments" project.

/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/11/how_can_we_improve_commenting.html?dnafrom=20&dnato=40#dnaacs

Nick..post 43 was a question to you. A week later and no response (to mine and all the other questions here). Are you the owner of this blog?

Thanks Nick, you have exceeded my expectations again. I am now fully enlightened.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"I assume that the DOG is on the 大象传媒 iPlayer to tell you you are watching a 大象传媒 programme."

But I thought the 大象传媒 iPlayer was the 大象传媒's own brand name and that the 大象传媒 iPlayer shows only 大象传媒 programmes, so why bother with the DOG?

Found the original question that I asked (message 15).

Nick, how do I delete blogs that I have made comments to? I know the convoluted way to unsubscribe from message board threads but not for blogs, ta.



Would someone/anyone please enlighten me.:)

sorry to be general but does anybody knwo when 大象传媒2 will be broadcasting The Tudors season 3 ???

No need to apologise Jennapaul, as Nick says at the beginning of this blog:

"As the Online board of the Points of View Message boards is being closed today I thought I would try an experiment of an "open post".

So this post is for any of your comments or questions about anything concerning 大象传媒 Online, 大象传媒 iPlayer, 大象传媒 HD, the 大象传媒's digital and mobile services, and the technology that powers them."

No doubt you'll be pointed in the direction of the Points of View boards, as your query will be classed as being "off topic".

The POV boards can be found here /dna/mbpointsofview where I'm sure you are more likely to get a response than you post here.

:)

Sorry, meant to say

"where I'm sure you are more likely to get a response than if you were to post here."

:)

I just got this error trying to follow a link to another of Nick's blogs from a 大象传媒 auto generated moderators email:

"The following error occurred: An unknown error has occurred" What does this mean Nick?

and why do all your blogs not have quote function, and the links can't be seen? and we can't be notified of replies? and I can't get back to Message Boards? and they don't allow some characters?

Did you not test it before launch?

Re my message 15, posted on 3 April 2009.

"Nick, how do I delete blogs that I have made comments to? I know the convoluted way to unsubscribe from message board threads but not for blogs, ta."

Andrew Bowden answered me on The 大象传媒 section of the Points of View messageboard a couple of days ago that

"The blog comments system does use the same underlying technology as the message boards. So there will be a convoluted of un-subscribing a blog post you've commented on, from your Blogs profile page.

Just don't ask me what it is!"

So Nick, can you please tell me how I can unsubscribe to blogs. Thank you.

Just found out that Nick has started a second Open Post here

/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/04/open_post_20092404.html

so please continue to ignore my question as I have now posted it there as well.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Why are there two open blogs?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Hi Nick,

Is there any way to edit a comment once it has bee posted? I would occasionally like to change spelling mistakes and I am not sure if this is possible
George