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Wales will not make the same mistakes. Therefore, where are the points going to come from for England?

Our discipline is dreadful, and we concede far more kickable penalties than we win, so we will not kick our way to victory.

Forwards scoring try? Can't see it.

9 around the edges: most likely.

Midfield: couldn't open up a tube of toothpaste.

Back 3: don't see the ball. Did Sackey even touch the ball?

I simply cannot see where the England points are coming from. There only hope is to start with the 15 that finished the Italy game.

Never been so disappointed by a "victory".
Horrible game to watch, also showed the problems with some of the ELVs, especially when a game is played by 2 teams devoid of ambition.
At least I can relax for the next few weeks, I have no expectations of another victory this campaign.
Please prove me wrong.

Ellis and Cueto looked international class.
Goode was one-dimensional.
The line-out was okay, the scrum a bit dodgy.
Otherwise there was a distinct lack of discipline, inspiration, pattern and precision.
A HUGE improvement is necessary or the England rugby side will mirror the cricket one and be humiliated in the match with Wales

Difficult to tell, so poor were Italy in the first half that it is likely that England's intensity level dropped. You can only beat what's in front of you after all.

However, Goode was poor and that meant that the backs got slow ball which they couldn't do anything with.

You can't say end with the last 15, Ellis definitely needs to start, also Geraghty should be dropped to the Saxons for being a muppet, he didnt even have his eyes on the ball when he flung himself at the Italian.

Borthwick needs to be dropped as well for someone who can do the job and someone who could be less inspirational as a captain must be impossible to find, i'd make Easter captain since he's the only choice in the side who played well enough to definitely keep his place, I know Vickery had a good game but if the front row can't operate they need to be sorted cos they were poor. Lets hope Wales watched the game and don't concentrate next week.

I simply would not pay to watch England at the moment. Devoid of ambition and ability, they provided a stark contrast to the fabulous, pacy game in Dublin. Borthwick must go. Bring in some spark - Geraghty (in spite of stupidity), Tait for definite and someone at 10 who can do things other than kick!

The only plus from this game is that I was offered a pair of tickets at £90 each last week and decided I didn't have the time to go to HQ this weekend. Can you imagine having to pay to watch this England team play with such lack of imagination or basic discipline?

Wales will be a test beyond belief next weekend and England will need to stand up and be counted in the forwards if they stand ANY chance at all. We need aggression and a bit of tactical nouse upfront to improve on the Italy game. Never doubt the heart of an international rugby player but at this time I dont see England finishing in the top three which is depressing.

Lineout ball needs to be something we know we are going to win and contest. Our pack isnt going to push everyone off the park anymore, but we need to be competitive; we also need to be ruthless at the breakdown. None of this fancy rubbish, just secure the ball and get it out quick and this comes from getting the basic contact skills right.

I will be watching the Wales game behind my sofa I think, hoping someone will show some leadership, face up to the situation that we are no longer world beaters and pass the ball instead of kicking away good possession.

I thought England were terrible yesterday, but then Italy, even when they're playing badly themselves, have the tendancy to make their opposition look bad. With their forward pack they are a team of spoilers and very good at it as well.

Having said that, I'm not optimistic about England's chances. I was absolutely stunned at how rarely the ball was passed along the line, I think the ball went through the centres from Goode less than five times in the entire match, which is simply unacceptable. How can any team play rugby like that? Even Italy passed it to their backs way more than England did. I can't even remember Sackey touching the ball except for when Italy kicked it to him.

Play Tait and Geraghty from the start - Goode on the bench and Jamie Noon anywhere away from an England Shirt!

At least Noon usually offers a crash ball option - something Goode did not ever provide for yesterday. Noon is not the problem. We have a back 3 that have real pace and threat; we need to get the ball to them. Noon's ability to keep the midfield honest should create more room for the quick men.

Geraghty at 10, Tait at 13 would give the oppostion plenty to think about.

As a Welsh fan, I would normally enjoy watching England play so bad yesterday, but I felt quite sorry for them. It wasn't that long ago Wales were similar, and I remember how that felt.

Italy could have been much closer bar the "9" performance and if they kicked their pens. Could have been a real tense game.

Keep your heads up England fans, next week England will give Wales a game for two reasons -

1) No need to motivate the England fans or players;

2) Wales have to prove they can handle being favourites, which if you look at the nation as people, is always tough.

Hope for a good match!

First Lions tour without any England players? On this showing, none of them deserve to even be considered.

i am probably going to get shouted down for this but i would bring Cipriani back to the bench if he worked hard this week on fast clearance and then bring him on as an impact sub if we still have a chance against wales,

at least he can do things on the pitch rather than Shane who went to the sin bin far far to quickly

apart form that Tait needs to start with Noon on the bench and foden can not be thought as a scrum half right now..........

For all the hype Sheridan receives, he was absolutely taken apart by castrogiovanni yesterday, and didn't look too good imho in the autumn internationals

I was there for the match and I thought Sackey was the most disinterested player on the park. When the Italians kicked the ball to him he offloaded it with the speed we were lacking for the rest of the match. Allegedly he is the fastest player on the team - how about taking a 20 yard run up and hitting the opposition hard. He really looked like he would rather have been anywhere else and that just isnt acceptable for an England International.

English rugby is hurtling backwards at an alarming pace.
Have become completely disillusioned with the whole game in England.
The RFU don't care about anything apart from the national team. They show no empathy or consideration to junior clubs. Funding has been cut yet they still rake in the money. As a body they're not fit for purpose.
Until there's a salary cap there won't be a decent premiership.
The decision to restructure national 1 and force the clubs to go professional will result in some of these clubs going under, Just ask West Hartlepool and Orrell!
Will watch my junior club next saturday, have a beer and try to ignore the slaughter going on in Cardiff

There are major problems in the England side. I feel a back-to-basics approach would work wonders for them, keep it simple, pass to the backs, get the forwards into the rucks quickly, don't try the kicks that always seem to lose us possession in attacking positions and most importantly - stop giving away cheap penalties and getting sin binned. These are supposed to be international players!

Before the game, a lot was talked about doing the simple things well. That is how South Africa and New Zealand win games so that is how England should; and in the heady days of World Cup triumph, England did.

England, however, failed miserably to do the simple things throughout the match. The lack of enthusiasm (bar Cueto) chasing kicks down and putting the reciever under pressure, not applying the correct rucking techniques in the break down area and clearing the rucks out efficiently and picking the correct lines to run when receiving ball to allow forwards to support or compete at the break down so the ball could be recycled quickly.

Everyone can talk of who needs to be picked in place of who, though really the problem lies in the team. England are not playing as one. The 15 players on the pitch are undoubtebly very talented players, they just clearly do not have the direction to allow them to play as a unit.

Each player needs to have their clearly defined roles and do their duty. Once we have established that, then we can move on to becoming a dominant force in international rugby again. Hopefully!!!

BRING BACK DANNY CIPRIANI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the most dissapoining performance I have ever seen England give, the comenators got it spot on when they said not a single piece of rugby was played. Ellis did play well, Cueto looked as if he would if actually given the ball, but there was so much kicking out of hand that it left you feeling frustrated. before these stupid ELV's came in rugby could not be described as dull, now with them, the IRB believe that 80 minutes of tennis is a far superior option. idiots.

Far more alarming about the games this weekend was the state of the Northern Hemisphere game, which has slipped alarmingly - with the exception of Ireland and France, which was a pleasure to watch - however, still with too many mistakes.
Wales and Scotland was fraught with errors and with Wales living offside at the breakdowns. Wales should thrash England next week - margin of 30 points or more if they are to be considered a serious threat for 2011.
Scotland are improving and have some promise - still some way off the competitive team they once wer though.
Ireland were the only home nation to give me some heart - they looked good in the forwards and threatening in the backs.
This is going to be an interesting 6 Nations - I have no idea who will end up on top - pick one from Wales, Ireland and France.

Ben, the reason those scientists gave LSD to the elephant was to see if they could induce musth, which is part of elephant mating behaviour. And you also suggest that LSD killed Tusko, whereas based on the follow up experiment (where they injected 2 elephants with LSD) this was found not to be the case.

And lets be honest, watching an elephant on acid would be far superior to that farce of a performance. I'll let you decide whether I refer to Mauro or England.

please can somebody have a word with the management.

tait must start - his impact on the game in just a few minutes was obvious....we broke the line.

how many more needless penalties is haskell allowed? Croft has to get a spot next week.

We will require the ballast of tindall against the welsh centres and should link well with tait.

Kennedy - well done in the line out, otherwise a bit quiet. Borthwick - the end of this season will surely result in his retirement form international rugby - his current form does not warrant a place on the team, nor the captaincy.

Its all very well talking dicipline -but it must be followed up with actions!

on a positive note, all the commentators are going on about how the tries came from italian mistakes, I would point out that we still had to score the points, and in the autumn, this was not a given.

Praying for a miracle next week, but a 30 point difference is a real possibility.

commenst please?

The message that DBMHead made was just outrageous. Sackey should be the first name down in your team sheet in the backs and when your stood on the wing not given any ball or any chances to create anything your not going to look at your best. Get a grip mate!

Hisnameisbenwell – disagree with most of what you say….

Firstly, Haskell was the pick of the English forwards for me. All of England’s problems emanated from an inability to get quick ball from the breakdown area – if the rest of the pack had played with the intensity and dynamism of Haskell this problem would be solved! I can only remember him giving away one ‘needless penalty’….granted it was a very visible one, and losing a man for 10 minutes against Wales would likely be game over – but dropping Haskell against the Welsh back-row would be madness!

Secondly, you say England need to start both Tindall and Tait and that they would link-up well in midfield. This in not a possibility as they are both outside centres. Tindall has played 12 in his career – terribly in the Andy Robinson era – and it is well known that he is unsuitable for that position. Agree that Noon needs to be dropped, but given that you can’t start both, which one would you bring in? Tait for attacking threat, or Tinds for experience and solidarity? And is there any news on Tindall’s fitness? Either way, I would suggest that whatever changes are made in the backs will have absolutely no effect if England cannot ramp it up in the pack.

Lastly, Borthwick had a sub-par game, but I can assure you that he will not be retiring from international rugby at the end of the season – and nor should he. The fact is that England have a real dearth of top-quality second rows at the minute, and England need his services. There is a strong argument to bring Shaw in for some grunt, but he hasn’t been on top form and is 5 years older than Borthwick and really in the twilight of his career, so it is by no means a clean cut replacement. To call for Borthwick’s retirement is pathetic!

As a general point, I was reading some 606 blogs on Friday and it strikes me that there is a lot of retrospective expertise and hypocrisy floating about today…..the notion that Italy would beat England for the first time was a popular one at the end of last week, with one article rating Italy’s pack as the best in the tournament. This seems to have been forgotten in the post-match analysis, with absolutely no mention of the spoiling ability and breakdown expertise of the Italian forwards – which was in full flow for the majority of the game, even if the man behind them was a joke for half of it. Speaking of which, everything I have read about Mauro Bergamasco since saturday would suggest that everyone in the world knew he would be a disaster with the exception of Nick Mallet. I read a lot of blogs on Friday and, whilst the prevailing sentiment was that it would either be a stroke of genius or a stroke of madness on the part of Mallet, nobody,….NOBODY, put their balls on the line and said it would be an outright disaster……

titotheragingbull...

i think my poor writing has confused a number of my questions. let me clarify.

borthwick - i am not calling for his retirement but am posing the question. in the line out he serves a good function. as a player also for bath he has been a pillar. in recent times though, he is left wanting. I recognise its easy from the sidelines to make these comments - but just feel as the england skipp - he does not appear to impose the direction of past capatins. At the moment though - no suggestions on who should replace. Shaw = good grunt but i agree- he is hit and miss which teams he performs against.

tait- i just think he really needs to be on the pitch. he adds speed and flare. him linking with the back three - thats got to be good right?

tindall - im not sure he can be called terrible at inside. either way - with him playing it is not a long term solution. im a forward so cant really comment too much on backs - but seems a lack of direction and a lack of flare - flood i think is the best about for us on current form. although -what about barkley? His form at gloucester has been good.

haskell - i am normally a big fan, he loves the smash and is a workhorse. My comments were not taking anything from his commitment but over the autmun and again this wekend, his ildicipline lead to yellow cards and penalities.

tom croft i think adds a new dimension - very mobile and playing well for leicester. dallaglio had a mix of position early in his career - he played 6,7 and 8. perhaps easter croft and haskell need a reshuffle? is easter the best 8 we have...

three words

pace
commitment
leadership.

I do agree with Including the likes of Tait as he has flare, pace and can change a game with a click of a finger sometimes.

Borthwick is not good enough and thats that really.

Tindall has a lot of experience but whether he should be starting is a difficult question. I would even consider palying Delon Armitage at 13 and Playing Tait at 15. Flutey has shown a lot of what he can do and i think he is a solid player.

Shane Geraghty is a great player but a player can not become world class when he is not given a chance. This guy needs to be played and i can assure he would produce.

Haskell is a bit of a looney saometimes but he is our best 7 at the moment. Tom Croft should be playing 6 and Easter at 8!

i think the problem with England is that they are scared to experiment! Im playing a charity rugby match with Martin Johnson on 30th April so i might ask few questions ha ha!

#27. its a shame that our captain has none of those charateristics.

Sackey = Total waste of space. Fact.

Cueto also played on the wing, and came looking for work, chased hard and forced himself on the game.
Sackey is a finisher, and no more. With the 14 players he has inside him, he is not going to get gifted east run-ins.
His contribution on Saturday was zero. I have seem blokes scratch their backsides with more energy and enthusiasm.
I would either play Banahan to smash the ball up the middle on the switch, or JSD when fit. Sackey was fortunate to grab an England jumper when the wingers cupboard was totally bare for England. I doubt he would make most GP starting 15's these days.

stoke - i met him at a university rugby - "safe drinking talk".... he delivered the speech with quite a smile. a really good bloke actually but becareful of his hook!!

i agree- give the younger boys a chance. tait on with 8 minutes- why bother.

gerrghty - i agree- but dont come on and make such a basic error- has done his case no good at all.

shame stephens cant play - he was starting to make the position his and we will need him in the loose and scrums from here on in!

question - mj asside and the guy from london irish - are there no other other coaches floating about who can inspire or direct? I just seen jones is eaving sarries - snaffle him for some advice!

Stokes89 - Sackey is in no way the first person Johnson should have on the team sheet. You must have been watching a different Paul Sackey.

Spleenboy hit the nail on the head. His contribution = Nothing, naada, zip, zilch, zero.

Sackey is only interested in looking good. He believes his only contribution should be scoring tries. He has stated this during an interview.

He is not commital in the tackle, refuses to chase kicks and makes no attempt to come in off his wing and look for the ball.

You cannot have an international winger that gives that little to the team.

To show how little I think of him, he makes Tom Varndells tackling look like Tana Umaga.

Sackey was about the very least of our problems on Saturday. As the old saying goes, forwards determine who wins the game, backs by how much! It's really impossible to judge any of the backline given the amount of decent, go-forward ball that they recieved - and as we know from johnson's short tenure, he's an extremely conservative selector - so I expect no changes in the backs, with the possible exception of the return of Flood & Tindall depending on fitness.

....Getting back to the REAL issue - the complete lack of clean, quick ball from the breakdown - does anyone have a decent solution to the Borthwick 'problem'? Personally I don't think Shaw is the answer. In his pomp he would be the ideal man for the job, but the guy's nearly 36 years old, and hasn't been anywhere near as influential in recent performances. Also, I think we need a bit more speed about the park and aggression at the breakdown - particularly against this lightening-quick welsh back row (Wyn Jones isn't exactly slow either!!). I know we've got a real lack of qulity 4's in England at the moment, but wasn't Jordan Crane selected there for the Saxons last week? I think Johnno may have been looking at him as a possible long-term solution at 4,....so why not put him in now? The problem then becomes one of leadership. It's got to be detrimental to change your captain in the middle of a campaign hasn't it? And who would you give it to? Vickery again? Personally I would either give it to Easter as a stop-gap solution,...or maybe Haskell for the long term?

hisnameisbenwell - fair enough about Haskell: he does need to cut-out the penalties from his game,...but I think he is a class act, and definately needs to be on the pitch. Your suggestion of moving him to the openside and putting Croft in at 6 isn't a bad call,....although I'd be tempted to do the opposite and bring Croft in at 7 where his extra pace can be utilised.....bit risky playing someone out of position though - particularly in such a specialist role.....

Pistals Drawn - If you can think of a better winger than Paul Sackey that could be palying at the moment with the likes of Ugo Monye out injured please let me no. Wing is not all about coming off your wing looking for the ball is this elaves space in behind and creates problems with the back line running backwards to clear up the mess. He is a winger - wingers score tries which is there main job. If you want him to do all that you explained give him a back row shirt.

Wales and Scotland was fraught with errors and with Wales living offside at the breakdowns.

-------

(a) I think you watched a different match to me, most of the unforced errors were from Scotland, Wales's were more often than not lost ball in the tackle (certainly not unforced) and yet again poor lineouts. Besides, errors are going to happen when you play Wales's type of game, it's balancing those out with the advantages that are important.

(b) The living offside thing, sorry but no, the cameras made it look bad bcause they always panned out half a second after the releae, by which time the Wales players were over the line (the Scots werent because they were slow). Those at the game said that it was fair. Besides, the SH teams have been getting away with living a half yard offside for years.

To claim that they need to win by 30 to be considered for a competition in 2 years time is plain ridiculous. England are a poor attacking team but they are still very good defensively, very few teams will score 30 points againt them bever mind win by that margin.

ben dirs - you are quite right - borthwick has been publically backed by mj - perhaps as the short term he will remain the solution (end of season). To releive him of his captaincy now would remove the last tiny bit of confidence from the team - i dont think it will acheive the end result of winning games well.

on other blogs people are raising the issue of too many leicester cooks (coaches) spoiling the broth. What do you thinkof that? Are there not any coaches world world to help mj - jake white for example? A changing of the guard is required.

Jones (just leaving sarries) has been a gun for hire...

england will lose on saturday but if they come from the game just showing some signs of cohesion, pace and ambition for the following matches that would be good.

Somebody asked who could replace sackey...one word - banahan. Proven defender, proven finisher with gas to spare. him outside tait would be worth a go. The problm will still remain however, lack of agression and dominance from the forwards.

Muscle up boys!

Would you drop Borthwick then ben? I guarentee Johnson won't, as he's already proven himself to be extremely conservative in selection. But, after coming under fire in the autumn, I thought he turned in a performance worse than his previous 3.

Problem is, Shaw is hardly guarenteed to make an impact - he hasn't been playing all that well (certainly not consistenty well), and the Welsh back row and second row are extremely quick (not Shaw's strength). It's a huge gamble to drop your captain, when the risk is that the man you bring in will be culpable of the very same plodding lack of dynamism at the breakdown.....and he would have to drop his captain, as it would be almost criminal to drop Kennedy given that in his short career for England he's done everything right and nothing wrong.

In my view he can't drop his skipper after one game and one (albeit extremely ugly) win. The only positive for an England fan is that (and nobody seems to be mentioning this) the Italian front five is possibly the best in the tournament - and certainly one of the most disruptive at the breakdown. If England ramp-up the intensity then they might just be able to get better possession in Cardiff....

i agree *38

by the way - what are the options for second row? its not a position i look at.

what would be your selection if you had total contoll? would you also change coaches (exc mj - he needs time and some respect...within reason).