´óÏó´«Ã½

A good blog but I personally still have no time for Saracens after they managed to start the slow death of my local non-league team. If they hadn't of groundshared with Enfield Football Club then maybe Enfield would be looking at the Blue Square Premier as opposed to the eventual liquidation that followed once the ground was sold. Not all Saracens fault but they didnt help once they upped sticks and moved to Watford by removing all the seating that was installed. All I can say is I hope Leicester win on Saturday

Think you are venting your anger at the wrong party. The reason Sarries left Enfield football ground was due to the inflexibility of Enfield council. They were obviously not impressed with the numbers of spectators going to watch Sarries there. Don't think you will find any sarries supporter that was happy with us moving away from our borough but the club had no choice.
Think you will find that Enfield council made a tidy sum selling that land to the various restaurants and the cinema dont you????

'Which is why, unusually in a country of underdog lovers, many neutrals will be cheering for Leicester on Saturday.'

WIll they?! You seriously underestimate the number of fans who dislike Leicester. Actually I think you will find more neutrals want Saracens to win!

"are producing perhaps more English talent at their academy than any Premiership club, with Alex Goode, Noah Cato and Andy Saull playing leading roles this season."

Thats just not true Ben. Can you name any other English players at Sarries other than those three plus Barritt and Mercey? Cato has not featured at all for the second half of the season and neither has Mercey who is moving to saints.

Sarries have consistently had the lowest number of English qualified players in their match day 22 and starting 15. Well below 50%.

Take Goode out of the picture and what have you got?

I have seen so many anti-sarries and lazy journalism this week.. This one takes the biscuit (no pun intended).

From all the friends I have made through away matches with Saracens they all (apart from Tigers off course) are hoping for a Sarries victory..

Also we aren't the underdog as we have already beaten them at Welford Road a few weeks ago.

"the club are producing perhaps more English talent at their academy than any Premiership club"

How? Saracens have easily the lowest average of English players in their 23 each week. And who has the most players in the England u20's? Harlequins, not Saracens. 6 of them to Saracens' 3. So how is this comment factually accurate in any way, shape or form? They have no players in the England squad for the tour.

Nice piece, Ben, I think it captures the Sarries ethos pretty well.

There is not much doubt that they consider the RFU to be run by Will Carling's famous old f**ts, but it would be a mistake to think that it is this what motivates all their gimmickry.

Edward Griffiths is commercial guy - he was heavily involved in bringing South African rugby into the professional era - what he is doing with Sarries is all centred on bringing publicity and interest to the club, ginning up support, and making it a viable business. Leicester and a few others have sizeable core support, Sarries have to try other stuff to attract more fans... and if it rubs traditionalists the wrong way, tough.

If Sarries weren't producing on the pitch, if young English players weren't emerging from the academy, if they only had 3000 fans attending home games, you could question what they were doing. But you can't; and the fact it gets up the RFU's noses, well that's too bad. I've got little sympathy especially given the generally lousy state of the English team for the last 5 years, the game would be worse off without upstart outfits like Sarries bringing new fans to the game - and, perhaps most important of all, they can actually play a bit.

Well we're pretty new Saracens fans, led by my 8 year old son. All I can say is their efforts on the field this season have really inspired him as a player, he's had his best season yet playing for his local team, with dreams of playing for Sarries when he grows up! Isn't that really what it's all about, reaching out to the players of the future and getting them invested in the sport? Well done to Saracens for stirring things up, even if they may not always have got it 100% right.

Fair play to Sarries, they're a club who haven't been in the public eye for the past few years and have relied on financial backing to pull them through. Now they've got even more backing and have brought in some good players.

However, it says a lot about the Premiership and the England team at the moment when 7 of their 23 players in this weekend's final are South African, and 15 of their 23 are foreign. Yes they have got some very good English talent coming through, but for the most part it's overseas players. Brendan Venter's recent action's have also annoyed me and all in all I think they're trying too hard and trying to change the view and ethos of the club too quickly-yes rugby will benefit from financial backing and spectacles at huge stadium's like Wembley, but achieving it by buying a load of South African's and acting like your the the dogs proverbials all season when they've won nothing for years is probably the reason they've not attracted too many supporters from outside their own fanbase and club-and is exactly the reason I'd like to see the thoroughbred, ENGLISH team (15/23 players for Saturday are english) which is Leicester win on Saturday and show Saracens how a rugby club, business and playing wise should be run in this country.

When we go to away games we go and have a beer with the opposition before and after the game- make new friends and enjoy the conversations.

If our club CEO started to take vans to other club car parks and give us free beer so we kept away from the home team fans and then ''marched'' with flags to the ground we would think he was barking mad and rather ill mannered to our hosts.

Then again, if after spending all that money our CEO was only getting home gates at the home ground of well under 10,000 (Wembly for a tenner is not a test) we would have fired him.We couldn't afford to lose that much dosh.

My mum is a season ticket holder at Welford Road (my dad has a season ticket for Coventry so the less said about that the better) and my boss is a massive Tigers' fan. However, I still hope Saracens win this weekend as I think their style of play and approach to the game is fantastic. Maybe they do rub a few people up the wrong way but I certainly don't think that rugby should be run in the same way as golf is with somewhat pretentious rules of behaviour and etiquette, which is what I think the recent disciplinary hearings involving Saracens and Leicester seem to suggest.

Rugby players and fans generally know how to behave both on and off the field and that should be upheld but hopefully, even in the modern era of the professional game, there is room for a slightly maverick element.

Just a comment about the "sarries march" at away games. Saracens fans meet in one place together, have a few drinks together and walk to the ground, this builds up the atmosphere and excitement for the game and they get to the ground in time to welcome the team! Following this they do interact in and around the grounds with other fans before and after the game. I believe it is good to go to the ground as a group as it shows good club spirit and that is what we will do at Twickenham 2moro but while also interacting with other fans.

Hopefully the old boys at the RFU will see how Saracens are progressing as a club and how the league is progressing as more clubs are now competing for the top 4 places. In terms of BV's ban, its ridiculus, ok 10 weeks may be right but they have started it now meaning he misses 1 game, yes ok the biggest game for Saracens for a long time but he is able to coach again on the 10th July meaning that it is basically a 1 week ban.

As a tigers fan I'm obviously hoping Tigers win, Saracens have done well though this season. The less said about their vile coach the better - Matt Dawson had him bang to rights.

As a Saints fan, and so fairly neutral, I actually hope the tiggers stuff the sarries. Believe me that it takes a lot to type those words for a dyed in the wool saints fan!

I strongly dislike both Ventner and Griffiths as I believe them to both be unpleasant people. Griffiths seems to want an American atmosphere which personally I detest. I love the traditions of rugby, being silent for the kicker and being able to not have segregation of fans, but his constant attempts for publicity (anyone remember the free half season tickets?) rub me the wrong way.

Ventner as well strikes me as a bully, he was as a player and it seems he is continuing that trait through to coaching. Both he and Griffiths both seem to miss that rugby's reputation took a black eye after bloodgate and the last thing we need is two people undermining the governing bodies authority.

So good luck to you tiggers and you deserve to be top as you ended the season first by quite a distance.

Personally I am all for Saracens 'evolving' rugby and actually think they were spot on to state that rugby is run like a prep school. I used to go to a few Sarries games and would still consider myself a supporter, (I live exactly 9 miles from where Saracens and Wasps play respectively) but I have always been put off by the way the game is run, and the attitude of some fans hence why I don't tend to go now.

The sooner the game changes the better and I will obviously be hoping Saracens stuff Leicester.

I'm a neutral for the final game, but I am definately wanted Leicester to win. There is something about Saracens which I cannot stand. Maybe my opinion was cemented when Sarries weren't doing so well over christmas, and all Venter could do was whine. When they started winning again? Not a sound to be heard except his lovely manners pitchside.

I have no time for Sarries at all. That's not to say I don't appreciate the rugby they play sometimes, but the few England players does not make up for South African dominance.

There are 7 south africans in the match day 23 for Saracens and 8 englishmen along with 2 Italians 2 Kiwis 2 South sea Islanders an american and a Numibian (Jacques Burger he is NOT South African). I personnaly do not care where these players come from, they are exciting to watch and playing great rugby.
I hope they win on saturday purely because thier style of rugby is better for the game and if all teams in the premiership tried to play like them maybe there would be more of an attacking threat for the English national team. The premiership needs to be shown that it is not just set piece and defense that wins games but throwing the ball around can win you tornaments.

"Both he and Griffiths both seem to miss that rugby's reputation took a black eye after bloodgate and the last thing we need is two people undermining the governing bodies authority."

Apples and Oranges, I'm afraid. Bloodgate was all to do with cheating in the game, the Venter situation is all about him being too outspoken for the RFU's liking (the reason he got a 10 week ban because he was already on a suspended ban for previous outbursts).

I don't think they are remotely comparable offences in terms of damaging rugby's reputation, a premeditated injury faking is not at all the same as saying or doing something dumb during or just after a game.

I think it was fair enough for Venter to be called to account given his recent history... but he wasn't the only one this week, Cockerill got a warning on his conduct as well - for slapping a table or something serious like that.

Honestly, if that's the RFU's approach to protecting the reputation of the game, going after coaches for getting tense in the heat of a game, I think they completely miss the point of their job. They undermine their own authority, and Edward Griffiths is doing them a favour by pointing it out.

'the club are producing perhaps more English talent at their academy than any Premiership club'

You obviously didn't do much research to come to that conclusion.

Also the idea that Saracens play a more attractive game than Leicester is nonsense, Leicester have the most try scoring bonus points (7) than any other side this season and were the second highest try scorers overall. Saracens only managed two try bonus points all season and out of the top eight sides, only one (Wasps) scored less tries.

Saracens have won the matches to get to the final so deserve to be there and it's likely to be a good game but their attempts to Americanise the culture of Rugby are misguided.

Rugby has one of the best cultures of any professional sport with fans from different teams able to sit or stand together and have a drink after the game. The friendly culture of Rugby is one of the main reasons that I go to the games. Saracens are trying to be brash and get at people. This is an appalling attitude which may result in resentment between different clubs and supporters.

As for people suggesting that Venter was punished unfairly for annoying the RFU rather than for any real offence. Were any of you at Welford Road when the offence was committed?, did any of you see what he did? If you had seen it then I think that you would be saying that he got off extremely lightly.

At the Semi Final between Leicester and Bath where I spent 80 minutes before the game watching Northampton v Saracens standing next to a group of Bath supporters. We were all hoping for a Northampton win and after the Leicester v Bath game, the Bath supporters that I spoke to all wanted Leicester to beat Saracens.

There is nothing wrong with the current culture in Rugby; actually it's a breath of fresh air in comparison with the culture in other professional sports particularly Football. There is no reason to change one of the greatest things in the sport. It's bad enough that they changed the League to have a playoff so that a team that finished third could be crowned champions tomorrow. It's bad enough that the Southern Hemisphere forced through law changes that don't work in the Northern hemisphere where the game was invented. Lets not allow anyone from the Southern Hemisphere to wreck anything else please.

Im a Sarries fan and have been since I started watching rugby in the early 90's, I remember going to Southgate and watching them play with approx 300 odd fans, inc away support, I now go, when I can, to Watford and watch us in front of 10,000.

That number has grown steadily since the advent of professionalism in the game, Sarries have always brought through young english talent, from Danny Grewcock & Ben Clarke in the 90's to Alex Good and Andy Saull now, yes we have a number of overseas players, but so do many other clubs in the premiership, they need to in order to compete and raise the game of those around them.

What lots of supporters seem to forget is that as a club we can now keep our good english players because of people like Edward Griffiths and his predecessors, who have enabled the club to fulfil its promise and be sustainable, whereas before its top young players were lured away by money and success at clubs like Leicester and Bath.

I dont agree with some of whats being done, but if it means we start to make inroads and are regularly at the top of the league then fine. Sure it will rub people up the wrong way, but thats probably more to do with the fact that change is often viewed as undesirable by those who are set in their ways, which the RFU and certain clubs seem to be somewhat.

Leicester, Bath etc have big crowds and always have, but they were built on sustained success which gave them the opportunity to get the best players and maintain, much like certain teams in the Football'S Premier league ie Man Utd and Chelsea..

Rugby as a game needs to move on and evolve its non playing element, its needs to put practices in place that would have prevented incidents such as with Venter at Leicester from happening, you would never see a football manager made to stand/sit in an area that was accessible by the opposing fans or where he could be provoked (or not) into a reaction.

I havent seen the incident and wasnt at the game, but if I was sitting where he was and was the coach of a team i would have stood up if I couldnt see what was happening, how else would I know if I needed to make changes etc etc... The fans are there to watch the game, he is there to make sure his team wins and he's paid to do that, if he fails he gets sacked, if the team does poorly all the fan loses is some bragging rights, he goes home afterwards. So if he wants to stand up, so be it, you dont see a football fan shouting at Alex Ferguson to get out his way or the FA telling him off for standing up or eating a biscuit at a meeting now do you?!

"you would never see a football manager made to stand/sit in an area that was accessible by the opposing fans or where he could be provoked (or not) into a reaction."

Thats the point isn't it?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I'd like them both to lose.

Edward Griffiths is the best thing that has happened to English Rugby, and he will do, as he did in South Africa is to wrench rugby from a self serving traditionalist clique and hand it to the rugby loving public.

All the neutrals I know are supporting Tigers. Being from Northamptonshire though I guess we are a little biased. I hink Venter is a little too aggressive for managment and when a director of Rugby is more well known than his players for foul play, then it's hardly a good example to be setting for them. I think the Tong'uiha saga put them in a different light as well, although the one thing to come out of that is that Mercey will have a lack of first team rugby at Saints. The saints-sarries rivalry will be one for next season though.