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Anyone loitering near County Hall's Trelawney Room a few weeks ago might have noticed Cornwall councillors Jackie Bull and Lisa Dolley patiently (but unsuccessfully) trying to persuade me that just because the Gypsy & Travellers Working Group was not open to the press or public, and did not publish agendas, it was not necessarily secret.

The discussion prompted me to ask how many other "informal" working groups there might be - the qualification being that a working group should look like a council meeting, sound like a council meeting, take place on council premises and be attended by full-time council staff. Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, I now have the answer.

There is the Fire & Rescue Service Improvement and Integrated Risk Management Planning Group, the Housing Task Group, the Empty Homes Strategy Task & Finish Group and the Review of Community Equipment Loan Service Task Group. There was also the Homelessness Strategy Task & Finish Group which wound up in February.

Since June 2009 there have been 15 meetings, involving about a dozen councillors, and nearly 200 hours of officer-time to draw up agendas, take notes and write reports.

The purpose of these groups, mainly, is to "add value" and provide "constructive challenges" to the work of parent committees.

The points on which Jackie and Lisa convinced me is that that the Gypsy & Travellers Working Group (a) has value despite (b) being rather boring (probably.) The point on which I remain unconvinced is that it is not for councillors to decide what is boring and what is not.

The danger is that informal working groups replace the role of those council committees which are subject to proper public scrutiny. They might be convenient, but few people would claim that democracy was about convenience.

In any event, when councillors really need to discuss anything in confidence, they already have adequate powers to pass a resolution and exclude the press and public.