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Quite right John. You can't really blame younger players for being elated in victory, but there is no substitute for good old fashioned class. Sport ceases to be enjoyable when players and teams lose respect for each other, except perhaps in a purely visceral sense.

Quite agree. We are not footballers after all. Rugby is unique and what makes it unique are little traditions like not arguing with the ref, shaking hands after a game, forming a tunnel etc etc. You knock 7 bells of **** out each other then shake hands afterwards. You don't boast, show off that you have one- you get into the changing rooms then celebrate. You show the opposition the upmost respect happy in the knowledge you have one. You don't need to rub it in because they know the result and you do and thats all that matters!

Gavin Hastings for the hall of fame!

Agree with you totally John. The Japanese players were top gentlemen. Their culture symbolises respect so I think that its a cultural thing. People show less respect these days which has filtered into sport in the UK and whilst rugby is holding out a little better than football, it will fall eventually.

The classiest players show the most respect to the opposition. In the heat of the moment of a tightly fought game I have no problem with a player celebrating an important try. After the game they need to show their respects.

Can I make a pubic apology for my terrible spelling in my 1st comment. My only excuse is I was just about to leave work and in a rush! I meant WON not ONE! Sorry!

Agreed. We also shouldn't jump around and scream like girls when we score a try, the game isn't over yet so just get back to your line with a hand shake and get ready. I'm a Bristol fan and when we scored a try in the Championship final you'd have thought we'd won the Heineken Cup! We went on to lose because all that celebration caused the team to relax and become complacent long before the final whistle.

I hope the day never comes however where rugby fans boo and hiss the opposition's national anthems. I caught the start of the England-Japan football match the other day and heard some England fans booing. Disgusting considering we once taught the world principled sportsmanship.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Watch 19 games out of 20 and there are handshakes immediately at the final whistle. An U20's side, won a world championship match, I think forgiving them getting a bit excited might be a good idea. Why talk as if it's a global problem??

You write some strange articles John.

John, I almost agree entirely with you, but at the end of the Wales match v S. Africa, a number of Welsh players disappeared from the pitch without shaking hands with the oppositon players, as soon as the final whistle blew. I must admit, it had been the first time I had seen this in a full international and it was a bit of a surprise for two reasons; A) I was always taught to respect your opponent, no matter the conditions or result of the game - you could be hammered (or hammer them) on the pitch but still show respect by shaking the hand of the opposition after the game and (B) that particular game was only a friendly and the result was so close that it wasn't the end of the world, irrespective of who won. Hopefully the rest of the rugby community will show the Welsh how they should behave at the end of games over the course of the next month or so.

hi John. First of all, why are you always so negative? the only time i sense a hint of excitement is when you talk of england....so tell me, why the negative comments all the time??

Dallaglio after WC quarter against the Ozzies - straight to Giteau who was hurting. I thought the odd one was in 2003, England v France, hardly any emotion at all from England, while my head was sore from banging it on the ceiling!

To be honest I think the game becoming more global and professional has had an influence. People play for more than the reasons that they used to....

John- Maybe it was just a bad weekend this weekend. Other than the big games (i.e. finals) the players tend shake hands and have a polite word with one another. I certainly don't think it is some sort of issue with players of the Northern Hemisphere. I play University Rugby in England and we allways shake hands with both players and officials after a game; forming a tunnel and congratulating/thanking them as we leave the pitch. I think that the Irish may be the masteers of this, whenever I have toured Ireland the teams we have played have been incredibly hospitable and have taken us out for a drink in the town after the game.

*masters. Sorry.

I agree that the two teams should shake hands at the end of a match without exception. However, when it is a big match (i.e. world cup final, decisive 6 nations match, premiership final, etc) and it has been a tight match with emotions running high then I think players can be forgiven for getting lost in the moment when the final whistle blows, particularly if 80,000 fans are going bonkers at the same time!

I don't think it smacks of insulting the opposition. It is celebrating a victoriy. As you said yourself, the Argentinians in the under 20 game would probably have done the same thing. It is the pinacle of some of these players careers (so far) so I don't think they should get stick for celebrating at the moment of the final whistle, provided they clap the opposition and shake their hands shortly after.

I may be in a minority here though...

"Do you think the English Under 20 side behaved the correct way?"

A team of teenagers high on adrenaline and emotion just won a World championship match, and you want to berate them for hugging, jumping in the air, cheering and letting their emotions out?

Should they have had a stiff upper lip? You're making a fuss out of absolutely nothing. They went over to shake hands with the players. It happens 99% of the time after a rugby match.

Pointless article.

John, I don't think its boring or pointless. I've played our beautiful game for over 20 years and on every occasion I've made sure to go and shake hands with my opposite number straight after the final whistle, win or lose, no argument. There's plenty of time to whoop and holler or spit your dummy in the changing room afterwards.
I hate to see young players not being gracious in defeat or in victory. Hall of Famers....
George Gregan: for an annoying little toe rag (as most scrum halves are) his leadership, professionalism and conduct set a fantastic example for younger players.
Tana Umaga: Legend
Josh Kronfeld: God

And I'm an Englishman!

Now, now DollyDagger. That comment isn't very gentlemanly is it. Hijacking a serious topic of discussion for irrelevant nationalistic grudges. At the risk of lowering myself to retaliation (sod it i've given in), what is a lot worse in my eyes is the recent increase in the trend of complaining to the referee, of which, Steve Borthwick seems particularly fond. Also i often find myself comfusing Delon Armitage with Ashley Cole. Not so much the looks but the unsavoury behaviour. Let's hope Ben Foden keeps up his good form.

I don't think this is an irrelevant topic. The crimes may be small but this is the type of thing that can creep up on a sport. Why take the risk? Instill the philosophy in youngsters and they will cherish it as they grow old, if not at the time. (coming from a 23year old)

John, I dont have an issue with celebrating a try once the ball has been grounded but don't approve of show boating prior to this, very tacky. 100% agree with your sentiments, as soon as the whistle blows for full time both sets of players should seek out their opposite man and the ref afterwards to shake hands. Also you should speak to the ref only when he addresses you directly, otherwise button it!

When I started playing rugby you could hear a pin drop during the game. In my last year!!!!! when the opposition or my own team scored a try, they all acted like they had just won the lottery!!!!! The only time I cheered after the final whistle was the day we defeated WOS, sad to say but only did it the once, which was in relieve that I had finally done it.

Society has chanced to win at all cost and it's not nice....

I'm with Steve.

You owe your opponents nothing.

"Boo hoo, somebody did't shake my hand quick enough". Well try harder then, then you can be the one cheering and shouting.

What I draw the line at is the mouthing at the ref. No need.

John

Couldn't agree more! The self-congratulation routine has got out of hand and seems to have resulted from football's baleful influence over society at large. Excessive celebration while your opponents are standing around is tasteless and, to sound old-fashioned (and I don't care!) lacks any sort of breeding. The truly stupid thing about it is that it simply acts as a spur to your opponents to get back at you!

As others have mentioned, I also find the practice of players in the clear "showboating" to the crowd before ostentatiously diving over the line really repulsive. It originates I think in American football but in recent times it has crept into rugby...you see it in kids games which is always a sensitive reflection of what goes on at a senior level. Matt Banahan and James Hook being leading exponents.

It does seem to have an American feel to it. It is not enough to win...the loser must be humiliated.

Lot's of good sense here! Show-boating before scoring is dreadful. Delight at final whistle is OK to a point, but as teams leave the field I would like the teams to form a tunnel and shake hands. That is the way it has been since I first played senior rugby in 1967! And it was still done in 1993 when I played my last game!
Sadly respect is something we see less and less of in society generally and sport even rugby will always follow albeit after lots of others.

Is this is more of a northern hemisphere disease? I've just re-run the end of the Wales v South Africa game and the Springboks went straight to shake hands with the referee and then the Welsh players.
--------
No and your looking for stories if you pretend that it is.

The majority of International matches at all age levels end with a more or less immediate shaking of hands in both hemispheres.

There are the odd occasions where that is delayed, but that has always happenned, don't even start to pretend that in the 70's there was no showboating or celebrating because we all know that there was.

Rose tinted blindfolds all round.

"Excessive celebration while your opponents are standing around is tasteless and, to sound old-fashioned (and I don't care!) lacks any sort of breeding."

If in, "old-fashioned" you mean pompous and arrogant.

Who are you to question somebody's "breeding" because they celebrate a score or victory? Perhaps the reason for such uncouth behaviour is the increase in working class players eh? More public school boys, I say what what.

Finally, rugby is now a profession. People's livelihoods depend on their performances. Times have changed. Deal with it.

Now I do agree in football celebrations are often excessive, however they result from

1, Increasing pressures to win, jobs on the line, future careers on the line especially if the player has no alternate career path. And JB has said he wants to see more of this pressure in Rugby?

2, And it pales into insignificance compared to the premeditated thuggery passed or attempted to be passed of as e.g. "the dark arts of the scrum"

I don't mind the celebrating so much, the show boating can be a bit tedious at times but if we're talking about little niggling things in games that you can't stand mine has to be the cheap shot while someone is in the act of scoring. You see it all the time, clean through with an opponent in pursuit no chance of stopping a try they still somehow feel the need to clatter the scoring player.

I wouldn't be surprised if the celebrations when a try is scored or at the final whistle are there because of the number of little niggling things that go on through the games these days. If you're opposite numbers are continually cheating or trying to influence referees decisions then you're going to feel like you're playing 16 men (if you're playing the Ospreys you might be but that's beside the point) and are far less likely to be in queue to shake their hands.

007hor: "You owe your opponents nothing."

How very very wrong you are! Without them, you would not have had a game -- and it is still a game.

007hor, you're an idiot!

Teteterre. Exactly, it is only a game. Nothing personal.

England have been criticised for lacking that killer instinct in ALL sports. Y'know the one the Aussies are lauded for?

When I play a sport, my opponent is my enemy. I owe him nothing. I will destroy him. After the game, fine, we'll shake hands, but during? You are going to get it. I will disrupt you and beat you anyway I can.

If I am beaten, the first thing you will see me do is offer my hand. If I am the victor, I celebrate with my team or my corner then I will go to the opponent.

My point isn't that you should disrespect an oponent, I feel respect is subjective in sport. What might offend you, will spur on another.

On a final note. I love cricket for one reason. It is a fantastic sport where, as a whole, being humble and modest is expected. I love to see the likes of Geoff Boycott bantering with Michael Holding etc. Rugby is not like cricket, rugby is violent.

Jiminoz. Shut up old man, you don't know me!

It's a sign of the times unfortunately. When I played and coached I only ever shook the hand of a try scorer on our team and said 'well done.' And then shook the hands of the opposition immediately afterwards, and made sure my team did too.

Well done Japan. Did they win or lose?

007hor: You seem to be sounding off like some form of Churchillian buffoon. Rugby isn't violent. Its physical and aggressive but not violent.
Sadly I do know you and lots of imbeciles like you, most of whom are converging on South Africa to yell about how brave and tough they are all in the name of Sport.
You're an embarrassment and a disgrace.
I'm all for everyone having a fair say with a valid point but you sound like a football supporter so please go to the football blogs.
Oh and I'm not old... I'm mature but still play this beautiful game in the manner it should be.. With dignity and pride.

As an old school player (sadly retired)I firmly believe in shaking hands with the opposition at the end of a game, it show respect and is part of what rugby is about, even if you have knocked seven bells out of each other in the game.
Having said that I still belive that a player who deliberatly lies on the wrong side of a ruck should be given a fair shoeing, but hey, that's the modern game now.

Whats wrong with you, rugby is streets ahead of football and even cricket. There’s nothing wrong with celebrating with your team mates after a try or the whistle. Just so long as you clap the other team off and shake their hands (and have a pint together later). 2 events stick in my mind of fair play and dignity. I remember watching Wales v Scotland with a load of foreigners who had never seen rugby before. They couldn’t believe it when Nathan Hines (i think) got sent off for a 2 footed kick out at one of the welsh boys. It wasn’t the violence that shocked them, but his words to the ref as he received his marching orders. "Yes sir, No sir, I’m sorry sir, I hope he’s ok, sir". A humble and genuinely sorry giant. Also there was gareth thomas' reaction when wales controversially lost to italy.. Despite the medias attempts to get him to complain about the mistake in the post match interviews, his only comment after being hassled for so long was something like if you rely on a last min pen for a draw then you don’t really deserve it and its not the refs fault that italy were the better team for 79m. I dont think you would ever hear that on MOTD. I've never liked him very much, but that day he proved a worthy and dignified captain and ambasador for rugby. Oh, what I really hate about the modern era is the music they play after a try and singers doing the anthems….grrrrrr

For me, showboating is the not very nice face of modern rugby. Shane Williams (Ospreys and Wales) has become one of the worst offenders, the American winger Ingwene(?) of Biarritz, is another!

Overdoing the celebration of a score also grates!!

Be proud and celebrate but do not overdo it to such an extent that it rubs it in the face of your opponents. Because one day you will be on the receiving end - see how you like it!!

"When I play a sport, my opponent is my enemy. I owe him nothing. I will destroy him."

Why do I picture you in your hollowed out volcano lair, stroking a white cat and planning world domination?

Personally i see nothing wrong with celebrating with your teammates after a victory even if it is on the pitch. Would you say something to say a side that has just won the World Cup for not immediately going over to the opposition and shaking their hands?

Yes you shouldn't stay for too long but the first person I would want to hug/shake hands with would be a teammate not the opposition


Celebrating a try is perfectly fine. It's like cricket in that there is that big release when a wicket is taken and the celebration shows it. Sport needs emotion and the celebration after a try shows that. Sometimes the celebration is showboating but a great example of just sheer emotion coming out is Jason Robinson after scoring in the WC final in '03. Normally one of the quietest men in the side punching the ball and screaming his head off. Or Shane Williams in 2008 after scoring against France. I'd rather see that than just jogging back with a barely a 'well done' from your teammates.

I do agree that there is a certain level that goes too far as in all sports but to deny these guys a moment of feeling on top of the world because of what can be considered a dated way of thinking just doesn't sit right.

Good for you, Jiminoz, good for you.

FYI, I have never been to a football match in my life.

I played rugby for my town and county during the 90's. I have also played ice hockey to national standards. I am currently a professional mixed martial artist. Never had anything but a passive interest in football.

If I turned "physical and aggressive" with you, would you not see this as violence? The police probably would. What's the difference? You're splitting hairs. Rugby is a violent sport.

So, no, you don't know me, or people of my ilk. You presume too much for a mature man. Perhaps you should construct your posts with a bit of that dignity you supposedly play with instead of name calling.

I've made my point.

Good day to you all.

I do agree, but fans alike have started not to shown respect for each other too. Booing at kicks, showing total disrespect for the oppositions players; refusing to show a humbleness and modesty in recognising the abilities of the opposition. I'll never forget the 99' World Cup final when the Australians just didn't shake hands with the French after the final whistle. They just went straight to celebration. My point is, even if you win the world cup, SHAKE HANDS with the opposition, then celebrate, in style if its the world cup final!!! I make a point of it when I play, after the final whistle, win or loss!

Jiminoz

'George Gregan: for an annoying little toe rag (as most scrum halves are) his leadership, professionalism and conduct set a fantastic example for younger players.'

(4 more years boys, 4 more years) yep real classy!!!

Can somebody please explain where the increasing habit of each team forming a line and shaking hands with every player? Surely its best if players shake random opposition players and seek out specific opponents?
It just seems so false otherwise. Agree also about over zealous celebrations. Where does humility come in?

Anglophone, you really are a ridiculous person. Since when has the ability to behave like a gentleman been anything to do with your 'breeding'? Some of the most arrogant idiots i have ever played against have been English public schoolboys and some of the most gracious in victory boys with very under privileged upbringing's.

One particular example sticks in mind, throughout my youth playing a team who went undefeated from under eights to under sixteen. We weren't a bad side and would usually finish third or fourth in the league but never once did we manage to make the game last the full allowance when playing them. (for those of you who don't know in junior rugby referees stop the game when the deficit is greater than 60points). They were always complete gentleman even as children and teenagers because their coaches, who i imagine in your eyes had terrible breeding, wouldn't let them be anything otherwise. This was from one of the most deprived areas in South Wales.

I imagine that you still think of Africans as a commodity and wouldn't even like to venture as to what you think of the Japanese team's 'breeding'. Maybe we should start selling opium to China again once the Afghanistan campaign is successful.

There is no place in rugby for people like you, we want a secular sport. Go and play polo.

Sorry rant over.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I was discussing this article with a few mates and one brought up an interesting point.

THE HAKA

Why is this OK but celebrating a try not?

Surely by your standards this is unsportsmanlike? Winding up opponents before a match? Or do you think it is just a dance?

Personally I like the Haka. I don't mind pre-emptive try celebrations (ala williams, hook, banahan). I don't mind the forwards patting themselves on the back after a good scrum. I don't mind players celebrating with their team mates after a try or a win. I do like to see them shake hands and form a tunnel.

I don't like booing national anthems (people should be thrown out for this) or place kickers. I don't like arguing and mouthing at the referee. But I am partial to a bit of sledging.

I liked the blog: could it be that I'm aging and well past it too?

I must say that I too appreciate the old-worldly courtesies. I first became aware of how strong my feelings in this regard when, watching various tennis tournaments, I realised that my admiration for Federer was predicated as much by his impeccable manners as by his skill, and my dislike for many other players entirely disregards their relative skill and instead is a reflection of my lack of respect for their discourteous conduct.

And I have no intention of trying to change my preferences.

John, a few blogs ago you didn't see anything wrong with spectators booing a kicker. Now you want the players to adhere to a different code of conduct. I really like your blogs but this one is a bit below par.

Oh! By the way ,fergus slattery for the hall of fame...

What do you all expect. Rugby is a professional sport so lots of these guys earn from endorsments and sponsorship deals. The higher their profile the more they make. So if running under the posts with their arm aloft helps them get noticed then so be it. Next you'll be saying that open running rugby is showboating and there is no place for it.

Get over it, its entertainment

PS. I dont like it either, but it doesn't realy annoy me that much

Good piece John - it was really drummed into me by my Dad first, then successive PE teachers that you shake hands after the game. And also if you're involved in some handbags during the game, once the ref has given you a dressing down, hand out to the other miscreant - if there's anything about them they'll shake and that's it.

Refs used to be pretty good at instilling the discipline too - I remember a game against a top Edinburgh public school (play in all blue!) where someone stuck a boot into me as I was going over for a try. I grabbed the offending leg and dragged the guy up by it while calling him for the dirty £&@$@*$ he was. The ref was a certain Ian Hogg (SRU Treasure I think) - he calmed me down, let me take the conversion, then gave them a penalty at halfway, because I'd taken the law into my own hands. Tough, but I learned the lesson - and we won by a shedload!

BTW - good to bump into you at Edin Airport the other day ...apologies for just thrusting my hand out and interrupting your family reunion!

Oh and Hugo Porta for the HoF - a true gent who's done loads for rugby in Argentina and was top-notch fly-half in his day.

'Broon from Troon' for the Hall of Fame

John, you were doing so well. I agree totally with the points about shaking the opposition's hand and the over the top celebrations. It's something as a junior side coach I, and my colleagues, try to instil. Although there are other clubs where that ethos is not as evident and winning is starting to be the priority.

However, I feel you last comment on the crowd booing smacks a little of hypocrisy. Just because it happens in most places in the world it doesn't make it right. I disagree that the crowd are not setting an example. Within that crowd there are individuals. Some will be children, some others will be seen as influential, others will be just followers. All it takes is for a few people to take a stand and speak out against the 'boo boys' and we could get to a game not marred by ungentlemanly behaviour.

Why is moderation taking so long - has the blog site crashed? My comment of 11.27 didn't need any moderation. Gordon Brown, of Troon, for the Hall of Fame

44 Reluctant Exile

Hmmm who's ridiculous? Probably someone who embarks on an ill-informed, formulaic left-wing rant and claims that I have no place in rugby. Since when did "good-breeding" i.e. demonstrating courtesy and consideration to ones fellow man have anything to do with social background????? It's how you're bought up by your mum and dad...it's how you're coached and it's the ethos of your club. I too have seen abominably behaved public schoolboys and gentlemanly teams from the "wrong side of the tracks". I have also seen the reverse as well...it has nothing to do with money!

The fact that you've gone off on one demonstrates once again this peculiar Welsh (I suspect) obsession with rugby and public schoolboys. When are you lot ever going to get over this? You make a big hullaballoo about England having 2 million registered players???? Eton, Harrow and Winchester must be much bigger institutions that I could ever have guessed;-) I imagine that you still fondly believe that that industrial decline in South Wales was an RFU plot to weaken Welsh rugby? Ah such cliches!

So calm yourself down and drop the moral outrage at the mere suggestion that being well bought-up, in whatever circumstances, might have something to do with subsequent attitudes to sportsmanship.

DollyDagger
You say that "a number" of Welsh players left the field, which means that most of the 22 players did not. Also, why the assumption that "the Welsh" will learn from this? Are you seriously accusing the whole country of being as unsporting as those two or three players?

On the whole, I have to agree with John about the hystrionics which follow tries in some games, but at the same time, I would not like to see so-called stiff upper lips either, just a modicum of decorum.

As regards the "showboating", I have only seen Shane Williams doing that once and that was during a very tight Six Nations game. The amount of backbiting (usually from English supporters) that he has to endure is unbelievable. Most teams would give their eye teeth to have a player of his calibre, yet he is "invisible" if he does not score in each game. Even after he bundled Mr Wilkinson into touch during the England Wales game, he was described as a liability. defensively. Why do posters have to show such nationalist bias? I am a fervent (my husband says fanatical) Welsh supporter, but I cheered as loudly as he did when Jonny scored THAT drop goal.

isnt this why we form a tunnel after a game to clap and shake hands? what if the game ends and i am at the opposite end of the pitch? must i make my way over to him to shake his hand? nonsense. we have a tunnel to do it. the tunnell should be formed and passed through before any lap of honour or crowd recognition as it is bad form to leave your opposite tunnel waiting. tis also bad form if the home side hasnt formed their tunnel first. i do not like diving extravagantly or gesturing before scoring or even after particularly although a spur of the moment ball thump ala Jason Robinson is sometimes unavoidable due to adrenelin. leave all that nonsense to the 7s boys in may day.

John,

I seem to remember Francois Pienaar kneeling down to pray with the entire springbok team immediately after the final whistle against the All Blacks in the ’95 World Cup Final. Granted I was only 13 at the time and may have missed the handshakes but that always struck me as a really poignant moment. Also, Scotland were not shy about showing how much it meant to them to beat the French in Paris in the same year when the whistle went. Surely you have to assess the celebrations in the context of the individual game?

P.S. I'm Scottish, that was not a dig at Scotland celebrating the win over France!

Surely there is no point in playing or watching rugby if you don't celebrate or feel any emotion when winning, that is why football is such a global sport, while rugby is left behiend; the emotion in instills. For rugby to grow as a sport for everybody it needs emotion while keeping the respect that exists between the fans and players.

28 and 29 make very valid points.

I wonder how people would react if e.g. Stephen Ferris refuses to shake hands with Dupuy or Attoub next time he faces either of them? I have a feeling he would be criticised for "not being the bigger man!"

It must be very easy to be gracious when you win all the time! The Boks in the 3rd test against the Lions in 09 acted apallingly during the last half an hour because they were getting hammered and couldn't take it.

Regarding showboating whilst running in for a try, I seem to remember Dominici dropping the ball whilst trying to put the ball down just inside of the dead ball line at the Stade de France, possibly 06 6N?

Why does flamboyant celebration have to equal showing disrespect to the opposition. I take your point that players should immediately shake the oppositions hand after a game, but dont tell me that we need to return to the good old days when emotions were frowned upon.

The theatre of sport is built on passion and emotion.Nothing beats a good swan dive, followed by a punch of the ball into the air, followed by swarm of elated teammates. Theres nothing disrespectful about it and it has nothing to do with insulting the opposition. In fact i think it shows respect. Australia battered a weak Fiji side last week and after every try they scored they simply ran back to the half way line, straight faced, as if to say 'that was easy'. I guarantee the Aussies will celebrate there tries against england with more emotion and flamboyance, this is a sign of respect, a statement that scoring against england is not an easy feat.

I don't think rugby has lost this part of the game. When I played it was always part and parcel of the game, even against your greatest rivals.

My 8 year old plays for his local club and it struck me the other week when the various age groups were finishing their games how well sportsmanship is still nurtured at a young age in rugby. Every game immediately ended with both teams (including subs) walking the line and shaking hands. There's no chat back to referees or coaches and the one occasion where I saw a player comlain about a decision, he was quickly whisked off the pitch by hhis coach (and it didn't matter that the kid was right, the ref got it wrong, but he's the ref and his word is gospel)

Meanwhile on the adjacent football pitch, two coaches were throwing every expletive under the sun at the referee, throughout the whole game. Thankfully this hasn't got a foothold in rugby yet and whilst decent minded folks still pitch up every week to coach the youngsters, then hopefully it never will.

to right no problem with it if you've just one the world cup or a grand slam or something like that where the emotion may take over but just go to any junior club on a saturady or sunday for colts etc than you will see the true extent of it

Just wanted to comment on those blaming this on us young people. I'm 18, played since I was 9, played for my school,and both club junior and senior sides, and I've never palyed in a game where the two sides havn't shaken hands after the match, and in the wast majority there was a tunnel after that as well. I think this is one incident that has been overhyped

Must admit at grass roots I don't think the shaking hands is a problem. Was watching England u20 yesterday playing Ireland. Exciting game but felt a few of the English boys let themselves down with celebrating before they'd even touched the ball down. Seemed very cocky. I'm sure other nations do it as well and maybe its just a young thing but celebrate after the try not before you've even touched it down. They were well in the lead as well so it's not as if it was a last minute score to win the match! Yes be happy but don't be arrogant!

It's tempting but i'm sure I have Ivory Coast connections in the family!!!!

Maybe i'm just an old git now! I make my point about celebrating before the try not their behaviour after the game! It was an exciting game so fair play!!!!

reluctant_exile wrote -

"Also i often find myself confusing Delon Armitage with Ashley Cole."

your spot on!! he thinks he's a playboy.

Regarding the topic, the respect shown in rugby after a match makes you feel proud to be a rugby fan/player.

I hope the respect and pride is never lost.

If you saw the conclusion of ice hockey's Stanley Cup final the other night, they have it almost down to a fine art. Yes, the Chicago players all ran to celebrate in a group at their end of the rink, but then the two teams filed past each other in a line to shake hands a few moments later, as is traditional. This is probably the optimum approach in a situation where your adrenaline is going like mad and you might need a moment or two to get control of it.

Excellent article, well said.

One of the reasons I watch less rugby is because of the football element. When Armitage kissed his badge when playing for England, rugby died a little.

Anyone who enjoyed this article should google 'The Mike Pyke Nonchalant Try Scoring Award'

Brilliant

I'm guessing the cartwheel touch down followed by aerial somersault seen at the sevens a Saturday or two ago doesn't meet with universal approval.
Impressed the hell out of me.
C'est ne pas rugby mai c'est magnifique.

Well cummon John, this coming from the man who endorses booing of the kickers!! You can't pick and choose when good sportsmanship should come into play.

Right regardless of all our points its a great day of rugby! Despite the fact it's day 2 of the World Cup i'll be watching rugby all day (maybe only allowed to watch 2 games by the lady!!!). Ireland with a bit of luck will give the All Blacks a great game ( i'd love to see New Zealand beaten) and Scotland later will hopefully beat Argentina. I'll have to record the England game as I think we are off to watch Sex and the City 2- hmm- yippee!
I'd still so rather watch the rugby than football. Behaviour is still better and I don't think things are that bad at the end of the day. You watch a football game and think 'Yep rugby is still ok'.

ps. What the **** happened to Scotland A- shocking. I truely hope thats not a sign of things to come! C'mon Scotland!!!!

Brilliant result Scotland! What a way to make up for the A result- well done!!!! 2 - 0 would be awesome!!!!

Truely correct. Forget celebrations until shook the opposition's hand. It's good sportsmanship and in the spirit of the game.

I know it has already been mentioned but to promote the booing of kickers in high pressure moments then berate a player for celebrating a try or winning a game is very illogical.

As you know players train for years and years to reach the top of their game and imagine the extreme adrenaline and enjoyment of scoring the winning try in say a European cup final, to not celebrate and show some emotion or run to thank your team mate for setting up the try is ridiculous - it is not an insult to the opposition whatsoever it is a celebration of a momentous occasion - I do agree that incidents like Martin Keown celebrating Ruud Van Nistelroys penalty miss are ugly and not what sport needs but the difference is he was celebrating a negative moment and celebrating the personal failure of one man.

If we were to move your thought process to a different game e.g. Golf. You would be perfectly happy for the gallery to chat, boo or cheer midway through a golfers swing at any point during their round. If a golfer was to win for example the masters with a stunning put on the 18th green you would then expect him to casually walk to his opponent, shake his hand and then make his way of the golf course, without celebration - high fiving his caddy, his coach, hugging his wife/family etc.

Sport is not about hiding emotions, as I say I believe the opposition should be respected and failure should not be celebrated but a momentous victory or piece or outstanding individual play should be celebrated - this is no way would impact the integrity of rugby or create a bad example for the youth

What a day. I survive sex and the city and Scotland win a brillant victory! Confidence will hopefully start to grow now, they look a lot more in control of games! Nice to see them running some ball as well!