´óÏó´«Ã½

´óÏó´«Ã½.co.uk

Talk about Newsnight

Latest programme

Wednesday, 20 February, 2008

  • Emily Maitlis
  • 20 Feb 08, 05:14 PM

Immigration
Arrivals at Luton airportA funny thing is happening, these days. The immigration debate is as hot as ever - but now no-one is talking about race. They're talking about speed of change - squeezed public resources and overcrowding. But the 'colour card' as such, is gone. Tonight, as the Home Secretary asks new immigrants to 'prove their worth', we ask whether it's just the language that's changed, whether the debate has become more 'grown up' or whether the two HAVE become decoupled. The immigration issue has often got political parties in trouble in the past - but right now, politicians know they cant afford to ignore it.

Spy Satellites? Calling Bruce Willis
Life, as Woody Allen once put it, often imitates art. And today the Pentagon's concerns appear to come straight out of the action movie Armageddon.
The US is standing by to shoot down a satellite which they say could cause great damage if it crashed to earth. They got rather upset when China tried something similar last year. Indeed those actions prompted fears of a space arms race. Except this time, they tell us, it's very different. All well and good. But the Russian's simply don't believe them and have branded it a cover for weapon testing.
Anyway, the testosterone is flying, as it were. We'll be gathering Russia and US watchers to tell us where this is heading.

Kosovo
When Germany recognised Croatian independence in 1991 it was explosive and led to the Balkan conflict. Today, it has formally recognized Kosovo's independence, but only after France, the US and Britain did so earlier in the week. The circumstances are different but there are historical resonances. So can war be avoided this time around?

Sovereign Wealth Funds
These massive state owned investment funds have nearly three trillion dollars to invest - slightly more than Britain's entire GDP. They can come to the rescue of troubled enterprises - and banks that need a bail out. But what do we actually know about these naturally secretive organizations - rising, as so many do, from the deserts of the Middle East? Stephanie Flanders is on the case – and you can read her analysis of the .

Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 07:50 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • John wrote:

We are experiencing the human cost of the unfettered free market, with a constant flux of people chasing the best paid jobs and the corporations chasing the cheapest and best trained labour.

The priorities of people, animals and the planet are subsumed to profits and growth.

Immigration is a symptom of what the most powerful humans in the 21st century have assumed to be unalterably correct: the free market is by far the most efficient and imperious of political and economic systems.

  • 2.
  • At 08:17 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • steve wrote:

an act that will haunt europe for years to come is the hasty decision to recognise Kosovo and to ditch the Serbs, clearly the lessons of 1914 still haven't been learnt, Russia and China are right to withold recognition as are some 'honest' european countries not tied to the running dog American lackeys

  • 3.
  • At 08:18 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • steve wrote:

an act that will haunt europe for years to come is the hasty decision to recognise Kosovo and to ditch the Serbs, clearly the lessons of 1914 still haven't been learnt, Russia and China are right to withold recognition as are some 'honest' european countries not tied to the running dog American lackeys

  • 4.
  • At 08:43 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Nick Thornsby wrote:

I think it is fairly obvious that what is important to politicians about immigration is looking tough. What they do doesn't really matter, and they no that. Immigration isn't as much as a problem as it is SEEN to be, but the politicians are now trying to making it look even more significant. Afterall, it gets them votes, and tough rhetoric is easy.

  • 5.
  • At 09:01 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • David Nettleton wrote:

Oscar Wilde said it before Woody Allen was born

  • 6.
  • At 09:17 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Gordon Neil wrote:

Perhaps Ms Flanders can help us by explain just why Gordon Brown is so uniquely and utterly trusting of SWFs. Common sense would suggest that Governments will inevitably use whatever levers they have at their disposal, including SWFs, to exert influence and control events in accord with their ideological goals. We need not look far in time or place to see how the Saudi Gov. in the form of one Prince Bandar went to some lengths to influence events in the UK that were not to his liking. He was quite happy to threaten the safety of our people by withdrawing intelligence, in order to blackmail Blair into dropping the BAE corruption case. Are we to now pretend that the Saudis and no doubt others, would not use SWF investments just as ruthlessly. For Brown to be sanguine about such investments is either a sign of abject stupidity or something altogether more sinister.

ANIMAL IMPERATIVE (Ref; Nick Thornsby)

My conclusion is that ANY mixing of "difference" within one breeding pool leads to tension. Immigration is only seen as a wonderful idea by the "cerebrally led" who deny the animal substrate of mankind. As soon as Britain is seriously stressed (recession - say) or there is a breakdown of law-and-order, the raw animal will emerge, as elsewhere in Europe.

  • 8.
  • At 10:05 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • anne wotana kaye wrote:

Brown is in a bind. One the one hand he knows that most of the native born UK citizens don't want any more immigrants. On the other hand, he knows his party thrives on the votes of dependents. Brochures are printed up in a multitude of languages giving advice on how to obtain housing benefits and other goodies. At the end of the day, despite all Brown's blabbering, another immigrant is another X on the ballot slip.

  • 9.
  • At 11:23 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • June Gibson wrote:

Immigration: Too little, too late, as usual. No doubt any records now set up will be something else for hem to lose.

  • 10.
  • At 12:10 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Olah wrote:

The challenges of immigration will remain a mystery as long as the treaty of EU remains a BIND on the signatories. Unguided influx of humans into the UK without a commensurate contribution to the economy, especially with the generosity of BENEFITS is like an irresistible force moving towards an immovable object. The cost of integrating people coming in on this platform has become so intimidating. The problem now is not even that of illegal immigrants but that of solidarity immigrants. Ask me and I will give you the key to tackling illegal immigrants' problem but for solidarity immigrants, I do not know.

Without any prejudice, I believe there is a better way to assist EU member nations than to allow unhindered influx of EU citizens into an economy with limited resources, geographical area, time and men. UK is a great and wonderful country where everybody wants to live (let us compare the movement of EU member citizens to other EU countries and we will understand what I am trying to bring out). With the policy of EU, the UK has become like "one rich man in a family of 200 poor men". It is only a matter of time, the pressure of those 200 poor men will soon take toll on the one rich man (this is a proverb and not in any way to slight any nation).

The question we should ask is 'why is it now that immigration suddenly become a frightening issue to have assume such a political weapon.

Let the leaders of all the political parties come together and profer the way forward instead of politicizing the issue. Get to the root of the problem and think as "parents" will do when the family is faced with a challenging situation. Reality and sincerity is the key. Not even the multi-faceted policies and rules that keep changing everyday will solve the problem.

May God grant the our leaders the courage to address the issue rightly and stop trading blames on one party or the Prime Minister.

  • 11.
  • At 12:12 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • wrote:

I hear that more Brits are leaving then ever before been replaced by those immigrants who do poorly paid jobs.
Australia gets our young talent and Spain gets their parents!
That is why it is silly the idea of citizenship as Britain is no longer a country with sound customs but more a transitory area like an airport with security and fear and unfamiliarity with one another.

  • 12.
  • At 12:40 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Dooley wrote:

isn't it ironic that the U.S. and U.K. governments started a costly conflict in the middle east, despite of the rest of the world's protests, thereby destabilising their domestic economies and increasing the price of oil to over USD 100 per barrel?

This leads directly to the ballooning of the SWF's in the GCC who are now in turn buying up prime western corporations effected by the economic downturn at bargain basement prices.

At the moment Bush and Brown are in no position to protest about how SWF's may be used for political purposes as they can consider themselves lucky to be receiving money from them in the first place.

Mr. Gordon Neil, are you saying that Prince Bandar had an obligation to share intelligence with the UK government?? Is he somehow more obliged to save British lives than Muslim ones?

  • 13.
  • At 03:52 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • the cookie ducker wrote:

I hear the quiz master of University Challenge gets an award for 'jurno of the year...for what??? reading an autocue!... i would have given it to Kirsty meself. Well done Jeremy; drinks all around then!

I was gonna throw my pennysworth in on the immigration debate with a quick history lesson on the Balkans and other world conflicts but as June said "to little to late" and Barrie's animalistic view of mans nature.. i will just say that the powder is well mixed and just needs a spark (recession). Okey, i've given you a one-tenth-of-a-pennysworth; you can guess the rest.

P:S hows the economy?

  • 14.
  • At 10:04 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • M and S Pants wrote:

If Paxo didn't win he'd have fired off another letter of complaint I suppose :-)

  • 15.
  • At 06:25 PM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • wrote:

I'm a little confused about the froth and bother around this satellite.

A few weeks ago on a ´óÏó´«Ã½ news show I was treated to a major scare story as to what might happen if it did get back to Earth in one piece. And, thanks to the sole guest expert, it sounded pretty serious. But then of course it was back to skateboarding turtles.

So I wrote in and asked what exactly was all this about, and did we have slightly more credible feedback on the possible consequences rather than 'the sky is falling'. To date, no reply. There's surprise.

So we have a quick bit of half-baked scaremongering based on the thing re-entering, and then... nothing.

Until now, when we have a bunch more froth, bother and stirring, because... it has been dealt with!

What the heck is going on?

  • 16.
  • At 09:31 PM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Jim wrote:

When it comes to discuss Iraq, too often Project opinion from Project
for a New American Century is seen represented. However an important survey of 3400 current and retired US officers released by the centre for a New American Security has not been adequately covered. One among its many important findings says that nine in ten officers that the Iraq war had streched the miliatry "dangerously thin".

General George Casey, former US Commander in Iraq has warned that the military was deployed at unsustainable rates, and was in danger of crossing a "red line" beyond which it would take a generation to build.

One wonders why such important matters are not picked by the news editors to be covered adequately.

This post is closed to new comments.

The ´óÏó´«Ã½ is not responsible for the content of external internet sites