´óÏó´«Ã½

Some of us are not fighting or killing each other. Evolution has given these microbes intelligence and self awareness allowing them to create the fantastic technological and culturly diverse world of today. Of couse there are the downsides of wars and inequality - but not bad for a bunch of microbes?

Mark

Thanks for making a contribution. It is brief, but you took the trouble, and it is certainly you.
Interesting!
PB

Mark- This was hilarious and so very dry and laced with profundity. What's ironic is that your description gives one the impression of looking down upon this world; one could say almost a God's perspective....

alan watson #1;

hahahahahaha
"Us?" What deluded presumptuous notion of self importance made you think I was talking about the human race and planet earth? Thank you for helping me make my point so forcefully right off the bat.

Mark
Never said this before, but you really are funny.

The funniest thing I ever saw you write here was "...i'm going back to my home planet now..."

Ok, it was at someone else's expense, but I am smiling here thinking about it.

PB

pb, did you read Maureen's posting about how when she clicked on William's link it connected to a site called breasts for dummies? It was all I could do not to ask if planet Maureen was in The Milky Way ;>)

Nicely put Mark, it is (mostly) funny indeed.

ref post 6

Yes Mark I read that one but to be honest it went right over my head...

PB

Mark

You know, I always seem to get called a right wing fundamentalist and I just wanted to get this off my chest guys.

I dont see how I qualify;

1) I dont believe the church was called to focus on political power.

2) I read other bibles apart from the King James Version.

3) I have dated girls from different races to my own (before I was married).

4) I dont believe being a catholic keeps you out of heaven (or gets you in!)

5) I drink beer and wine every weekend

6) I smoke cigars occasionally

7) I believe in supernatural gifts for Christians, (tongues, healing, prophecy etc)

8) My personal politics are left of centre.

I could go on...

Can I really qualify as a right wing fundamentalist after reading the above mark? what do you think?

PB

Wow PB, i'd you down as a teetotal KJV reader! :-)

PB #9
In the United States, religion is being fought over as both left and right are claiming god is on their side. If you aren't aware of it, while Europe seems mostly atheist, America is a nation of true believers. I think at least 80% say they belive in god, maybe even more. In fact that may just be the percentage which says they go to church regularly. As American politics seems split approximately right down the middle at the moment (that's a gross oversimplification of it), it should be obvious that neither side has a monopoly on religion. I think this is often taken out of context when European reporters explain the US to their audiences back home. They focus on certain fundimentalist Christian sects which have gotten a lot of press and are sometimes prominent in the media. You see preachers like Jerry Falwell on Larry King live or on Fox talk shows a lot. He was often on Jeraldo Rivera's show, especially during some of the more widely covered news stories like the whole Clinton impeachment episode, the OJ Simpson trial and the Michael Jackson episode. But in reality, most Americans of all political stripes just quietly go to their churches on Sunday morning to pray over the sins they commit from Sunday afternoon to Saturday night. It makes them feel good I suppose. BTW, our divorce rate is over 50% and that doesn't count the percentage of marriages which are very unhappy unions. Till death do us part is not taken very seriously either.

It's impossible for me to say what the context of religion is in your culture. I have no basis for understanding how it fits into politics...all that I know of it is that for the moment, the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland have gotten a little tired of killing each other. They want a rest from it. Is religion considered left or right in the UK? You should know that much better than I would. BTW, are those cigars Cuban?

Re 11: "It's impossible for me to say what the context of religion is in your culture. I have no basis for understanding how it fits into politics"

Would renewing the quarter century old passport help? ;-)

Peace,
Maureen

To PB re:post 9

good on ya!

DD

Maureen #12
I have traveled to probably around 40 countries and 15 states. I've lived in one foreign country and in five states in my lifetime. It may seem odd to you and it may have changed in recent years but it was possible for American tourists at least until recently to travel freely in the Western Hemisphere without a passport, just a birth certificate and a valid drivers license. I have no desire to travel anymore. I've wasted enough of my life sitting around waiting in airport terminals, train stations and bus depots. I've slept in more hotels, eaten in more restaurants, and been dragged to more dead monuments and museums than I care to think about. At my stage in life, there's no place like home. I'm not coming to Northern Ireland to figure out what makes the place tick, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Besides, in case you haven't guessed it, I have an intense aversion to Europe, just thinking about the place gives me hives. In the nearly two years during which I lived there, I had more than my fill of it.

Perhaps in a few years, I'll give in to the desires of someone in my family who wants to cruise the Greek Isles. I for one am not looking forward to it. I don't need to touch the crumbling stones with my bare skin to know that it died over two thousand years ago. Maybe Bermuda again, it's only 90 minutes by plane and a day and a half by cruise ship. They have some very nice beaches there, but then again, Antigua, Saint Marten, and Saint Thomas have even nicer ones.

BTW, if you get the Travel Channel, you can see one highly sanitized illusion of travel after another. Right now Samantha Brown has several very popular programs. So does Rick Steves on PBS. Las Vegas seems to have reconstructed many of the places most Americans would like to travel to. You can ride a gondola in the canals of Venice...without the smell.

DD, Gay Christian Believer

Wow, kudos from DD! cheers!.

GCB - glad to dispel a few myths!

Mark. I was reading about evangelicalism on wikipedia and it said that in the US there were great misconceptions that the right was upheld by them but that many other religious groups such as mormons and catholics were involved too.

Religion just has nowhere near the same political power in the UK, even in NI where it is strongest, in my opinion. eg the Govt just imposed civial partnerships there even thought the majority opposed it, so they obviously dont have the same control.

But I think the irrational side of the hatred for GWBush loves to hit on his faith. ie, I mean the prejudice against him that it is simply anti-american, not anti-iraq adventure and against his faith.

I think many irrational people in the UK hear you believe in God and the bible and automatically equate you with Bush or Paisley.

But dont get me wrong I am not saying I am against either of them or anything, though I think Iraq is a debacle that would see any professional struck off and jailed.

Gay Christian Believer and DD there may be examples. They both seem quite surprised I am not a fundamentalist, though my brother is without question.
We have the occasional debate but agree on the key point, Jesus Christ.

PB

PS Mark, cuban cigars, I think the last one I had was cuban at an awards ceremony, but I would not consider myself a connisseur, not by any means. I just have one occasionnaly on special occasions. like the smell, but not the morning after.

Hey PB-

"1) I dont believe the church was called to focus on political power." Yet you want to use religious ideas to prevent gays being married, and a lot of other things. That's the church focusing it's efforts politically.

No John

That is the church using its vote.
Christ called on Christians to be salt and light in the world.

That is very different from believing that it is the church's primary mission to put all its resources into taking control of the state.

PB

I refer my right honorable friends to the reply I gave some moments ago; In time and space without beginning or end.....

Mark,

realised I hadnt made a comment on this. Well done - for conversation generated per word written - you have to win hands down - Do I detect a bit of Kurt Vonnegut influence???

Gee Dubyah #19
Kurt Vonnegut? More like Alfred E. Newman of Mad Magazine I'd think. Probably way before your time and in another place. His most famous quote; "What, me worry?"

Do you sense the end coming yet Gee Dubyah? The winds of change are blowing and almost upon us, and it's an ill wind for us at that. We've had our fifteen minutes of fame, it's time to make way for others to have their chance. It won't be much longer now. For new suns to rise, old suns must set, at least with this software. Besides these thoughts are growing long in the tooth.

I sense the distinct approach of the grim reaper. Time grows short. There are no atheists in foxholes.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee Mark L. Fischer, it tolls for thee."

Let us pray;

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want:
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures.
He leadeth me beside the still waters:
He restoreth my soul.
He leadeth me in the paths of rightousness for his name’s sake.

Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil; for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runeth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
And I will dwell in the house of the lord forever.

Good-bye cruel world, good-bye.

Mark

are you ok over there? hard to work you out somtimes?

Is this a joke???

PB