大象传媒

Firstly I object to the influence of clerics on our governments that continue to force religious holidays in 2010. In too many jurisdictions if someone opens a business on Friday, this weekend, then the cops are sent to arrest and fine them as if there is any criminal wrong doing. I do support public holidays throughout the year. Canada鈥檚 newest holiday is Family Day in February. Since everyone has one and we all bleed red, no one is thereby excluded. This upcoming Friday we are forecast to have sublime weather. That means for us getting the bikes out and riding along the lake trail.

The religious festivities around the rites of spring are offensive. No dead body has ever resurrected and these fanciful tales are more appropriately the subjects of vampire myths. Common in most ancient cultures are stories of big floods, fires, virgin births of gods, resurrection etc. There is plenty of magic in science fiction. Fair enough. Those today that suggest that there is anything supernatural proven are not thinking clearly. Floods and fires are of course natural phenomenon. As for the god of the forced holiday this weekend what really happened in the story? A god apparently sent his son on a suicide mission, nice! The man who died is proclaimed a god for what? Did he abolish slavery, murder, incest, misogyny, petty tribalism or cure cancer? Surely in order to be a good god a person should do something important otherwise get ye back in the box.

I bet if kids here in Canada are asked what does Good Friday mean most wouldn't have a clue or care nor should they. Ask them about Easter and of course they will talk about candy.

First, yes, I know atheists who eat Easter eggs. But this contemporary celebration has nothing whatever to do with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ; it's a mere excuse these days to eat chocolate and do something fun with the family and take a Monday off in the UK (though not in the US, where I tease conservatives that this is the most secular country in the world, which they hate).

Although these days I'm more of a deist/pandeist/panentheist/cautious theist/nervous atheist/theological mess, Easter Sunday is one of the times I go to and enjoy the experience of church. I don't know what it is about it - perhaps the joy that accompanies the right Easter service, like a surge of endorphins - but I can't resist being part of this rich and long tradition, with all its good and all its bad, and sharing in something that makes me feel connected to my own past too.

So, this Sunday, I'll be attempting to get into Rick Warren's with about 50,000 others at Angel Stadium in California. If I and my traveling friend from Belfast can't get in (all tickets were given away a week ago) then we'll go to the and try to beat the crowds for that one, a much more traditional format but a . If not, we may end up at one of the other 193 megachurches in California.

"Firstly I object to the influence of clerics on our governments that continue to force religious holidays in 2010. In too many jurisdictions if someone opens a business on Friday, this weekend, then the cops are sent to arrest and fine them as if there is any criminal wrong doing."

Seriously? I'm not even sure that would happen in R of I. I thought Canada had moved on considerably.

I mean you never see the cops deal with this sort of thing in "Flashpoint"

A Roman Catholic holiday with no scriptural basis behind it's celebration...

I have a laugh. The christian god hates anyone to say the name of another god. Easter or Eastre is a Norse pagan god and the 鈥榣oving鈥� christian god is going to burn anyone who espouses another god鈥檚 name, in fire, for eternity. I am anti theist and I give eggs and I put a tree up in late December. Why? Easter has as much to do with Jesus as Christmas鈥︹�� that is, not at all. Sorry.

Kind regards
DK

And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. ACTS 12:4 KJV

I always thought it was related to Ishtar. Ishtar is of course Esther, Mordecai is "He of Marduk", providing a different slant of the "Jewish" story. But then it is also ironic that Mary, "mother of god" is Maryam/Miriam, derived from the Egyptian Meretamun, "Beloved of Amun". A whole lotta syncretism goin' on...

Isn't Easter another one of hose pagan festivals (just like Christmas) which has been incorperated into the Christian calendar ?

Mmmm... Chocolate. Is there nothing it can't do?

In 2018 Easter Sunday will be 1st April - pretty appropriate? yea!

#6

Think that must be a printing error, it should read passover.

Regards
DK

You can always trust Lucy to be rabid and ridiculous.

Will, I love the Easter Triduum. I love that it has kept an almost entirely religious feel which no amount of Easter eggs can destroy. For Christians Easter means the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the central truth of our faith. Not sure what problem CC has with that?

I do wish the West and Eastern Churches could agree on a common date, though.

And I was married on Easter Monday so it's additionally special.

chocolate, certainly! and hard boiled eggs, decorated lovingly for the easter bunny to hide and the children to find, or fail to find until you worry that they will go off and smell.
but also wonder and mystery, rebirth, renewal and hope.

For Christians, Easter gives us a reason to be thankful - for the death of Christ, as He paid for sin on the Cross; to be joyful - because He rose from death and lives today; and to be faithful - sharing the story that all need to hear! (Come to think of it - that might be a good outline for a sermon!)

Paul summed up the story like this: "Christ died for our sins...was buried and raised again the third day according to the Scriptures."
(1 Corinthians 15v3&4)

As you enjoy your chocolate, why not chew on that?!

Shops are open down here in the republic but pubs aren't, world. only in Limerick as Munster and Leinster are playing in the Magners league so Limerick pubs have special dispensation to open So most of Dublin will be going down.Its a funny old world.GC

Amen to that Pastor Philip. Jesus Christ is alive...praise His name!!

"means the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the central truth of our faith. Not sure what problem CC has with that?"

I have a problem with celebrating a pagan festival which the roman catholic church took as their own and dressed up as "christian"... I see God telling us to observe the sabbath but i see no mention for observing Easter so why do you do it? Is it cause the Pope in Rome said so? or can you find God's scriptural warrant for observing pagan holidays?

mcc

I wonder if I can follow on from CC鈥檚 comments in post 17 in explaining why some of us Protestants have an aversion to Easter or Christmas or Holy 鈥榳hatever鈥�.

A couple of weeks back I fired up a few comments saying that everyday was Pancake Tuesday, or everyday was Ash Wednesday and while I was just teasing a bit, truth is, it is one way of looking at religious tradition, and my view of Easter is similar to my view of Christmas - best to keep Jesus out of it. If I could put up a slogan outside my church it would be something like... 鈥楰eep Easter Special, Roll an Egg and Leave Jesus out of It鈥�. Probably wouldn鈥檛 go down well though! In recent years we have started a Good Friday Communion service in church, but, to be honest, I鈥檓 going to stay home and watch TV, or play FIFA 10 on the X-box.

Now, why this aversion to made up holy things? Well, (and I鈥檓 paraphrasing), we鈥檙e told not to let anyone judge us on the basis of what we eat of drink or which religious festival we keep because these things are just shadows of Jesus and it seems we鈥檙e encouraged to live in the light of something we call his kingdom, with the emphasis on how we live rather than the religious festivals we keep.

The weird thing is this, this 鈥榟oly week鈥� I鈥檝e been thinking about the slogan on the Humani website (or at least the beginning of it) - 鈥淩emember your humanity鈥�, and they kinda have a point. Often humanity is what is forgotten in the adherence to religion, yet, as Christians we鈥檙e called to be fully human, in some ways that鈥檚 what Christian 鈥榮alvation鈥� is - humanity lived in the light of the cross.

So what does Easter mean to me, nothing more than any other random day of the year, which means though that I probably go one step further than CC in thinking that the Sabbath too is fulfilled in Jesus.

Sunday football anyone? ;-)

In 2018 Easter Sunday will be 1st April - pretty appropriate? yea!

I think Good Friday has already coincided with both St. Patricks day (2 years ago) and April the 1st Allan.

Peter Morrow and Brian Thomas.

I am disturbed by your level of devotion. Does it bother you that outsiders are disturbed by such behaviour which I can only view as cultish?

Kind regards
DK

David - you're in big trouble - you're only allowed to call SOME religions cults!

Devotion to what, David?

"how we live"?

"stay(ing) home and watch(ing) TV, or play(ing) FIFA 10 on the X-box."?

"Sunday football"?

"Roll(ing) an Egg"?

Keeping Jesus out of Christmas and Easter.?

鈥淩emember(ing) (y)our humanity鈥�?

Not keeping the Sabbath?

Equating 'holy' days with every other day of the year?

Avoiding Good Friday Communion?

"not (to) let(ing) anyone judge us on the basis of what we eat or drink or which religious festival we keep"?

Paragraph 3 #18 is just standard Christian theology paraphrased, any Christian would pretty much agree in some away or other.

What do you expect? A Christian who doesn't think about following Jesus?

David

I just read the latest thread posted by William, "The Crux of the Matter", and I note the following, "Ask enough questions about the structures of power in many societies today and you might find fellow-cause with Jesus. That is the dilemma we all face, and it is a moral dilemma: when to speak out for the rights of another, when to stand up in defence of the downtrodden, when to refuse to co-operate with a system that hurts people we hardly know, when to question the official justifications, when to look the powerful in the eye."

When I read it my mind turned to this:



a programme which has raised a dilemma for my family this Easter. Chocolate eggs and expectations are something we have talked about this last week and we have asked the question, how, as Christians, as human beings, are we to respond?

Issues like these are raised when we seek to be "fully human", when we seek to live in "light of the cross", when we seek to "Remember our humanity", or when I and my children plug in a X-box that others don't have.

That's why everyday is Easter Sunday.

Peter. Re # I cannot lie. I typed your name alongside Brian鈥檚 (#16) when I intended to refer to Pastorphilip (#14), please accept my sincere apologies.

I guess my view, as someone without faith, would be to ask what Jesus would expect of me? No doubt, whatever ones world view, we could perhaps do more for the poor and needy of the world, not to please a n other, but because we know it is right.

I hope you and your family enjoy these special days.

Sorry again.
DK

Peter, I find the term "X-box" offensive. It should be "Christ-box".

;-)

Sorry David if that's how you feel. I am like many millions who have trusted Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. It's a shame you don't understand...but guess what, God loves you anyway.

LOL Helio. I think you've identified a popular modern blasphemy there.

David

No problem.

My response was mainly the result of surprise. One of the features of my Christian community which has the ability to frustrate me is our on-going success at being remembered for (often irrelevant) idiosyncratic ceremony, and it is something I鈥檝e consistently tried to argue against. At times we are so disconnected from ordinariness, from the things which most capture of our attention on a daily basis.

I do think however that Christianity has something to say to the ordinariness of our lives, and I do regret, regularly, that we (Christians) portray a God who can only be understood after one has stumbled and picked one鈥檚 way through the peculiar distinctives of an alien sub-culture.

Oddly enough while I think your use of the word 鈥榗ultish鈥� is too strong I can understand why you might use it. There are times when we must look rather strange to 鈥榦utsiders鈥�.

Have a good Bank Hoilday weekend

All the best.


Helio

Personally, being an evangelical, I prefer the PS3 (Play Salvation 3) to the X-box. There鈥檚 a few new titles out, which you may not have heard of, 鈥楤illy Graham Rally - Special door-to-door Stages included', 鈥楤and Hero - Worship Version - Play air guitar to your favourite praise and worship songs', 'Final Fantasy 4 - will you be raptured before your opponent?', and (dreadfully obviously) The Bourne Again Identity.

David, I sincerely hope you will forgive me if I transgress the bounds of propriety, but I suspect there may have been a considerable generosity of spirit reflected at the conclusion of your post 24. It is strange how we lack the words to express life's really important things but I hope you will understand my intention when I say that you and your daughter are very much in my thoughts, particularly at this time. I hesitate to say what I want to say and I so hope it is not inappropriate but I wanted to acknowledge, too, a testimony I feel I may have perceived to a very loving, very beautiful person. Parr

Christ gave us the the Lord's Day to celebrate (amongst other things) His Resurrection and the Lord's Supper to remember Him and His death for His people's sins. We rebel against His Lordship when we think we know better than Him and add to His Word.

Presbyterians, Baptists and Congregationalists didn't celebrate Eostre (a pagan goddess) for this reason, until they became Anglicanised through the educational system.

Christ on the Lord's Supper: "DO THIS in remembrance of me." Response: "No, I'll do my own thing."

(By the way, the KJV has the word "Easter" instead of Passover in Acts 12:4. The Translators' Preface explicitly complained against the careful accuracy of the Puritans' translations as they went against tradition: "...we have on the one side avoided the scrupulosity of the Puritans, who leave the old Ecclesiastical words, and betake them to other...")

David states "the 鈥榣oving鈥� Christian god is going to burn anyone who espouses another god鈥檚 name, in fire, for eternity."

The implication is that God cannot be love and at the same time punish anyone in Hell. This is illogical. Could a judge be loving and yet punish Nazis for the crimes of the Holocaust? Could a judge be loving and yet punish a serial rapist? Of course, he would. How could anyone be loving and not punish these people.

God loves and therefore He hates the opposite of love, which is sin. We cannot get our heads around Hell, but then we are sinners and don't hate sin like an absolutely holy Judge.

The Atheist has a bigger problem: we're all just a bunch of chemicals. Love, hate, good and bad can have no meaning in such a universe. Atheism is just another false belief system that does not comport with reality, just like the various forms of false Christianity that are also illogical.

John Wright

Ref confession of "theological mess"

that must be one of the most painfully honest confessions to date on this blog!

respect dude.

To be honest, I am slightly with Lucy Q at al. For me Easter means not much to be honest. It isnt a biblical festival, it is an adaptian of a pagan one.

I dont see why the resurrection should be so important on one day of the year, but I guess I do see the value in set times every year to reflect on important events and truths.

Happy Easter William and guys!

OT



OT

Hehe thanks OT. Happy Easter back

I personally am not Christian (or religious) in any way. I take it as a festival where family and friends come together (and eat plenty of chocolate!)

OT, do you take the same view of Christmas? At least Easter was celebrated at approximately this time of year, whereas Christmas itself was not celebrated until over a century after Jesus died.

Will, are you planning to interview Philip Pullman about his new book? I've posted a review thread on - comments welcome :-)

By the way, has anyone seen that cringeworthy Twitter feed @EasterLIVE? It's hilarious, sad, twee, embarrassing, annoying, ghastly, insipid - all rolled into one big unholy package.

I rather think Jesus would have de-friended its originators on FB...

Helio

Just wait until someone on my side of the island comes up with an idea for a Twitter Bible.

Latest Tweet

#MarkusLIVE: In the name of Mercury, no, I don't want to buy a donkey.

Yikes - I can see it now:
@GOD: lights plz LOL!
@JESUS: These OK4U?
@GOD: Lovin teh lights. thx.

It's only "Easter" in English - in other languages it's usually a version of Pasch so hardly a pagan festival.

I watched the Easter Vigil Mass on RTE last night. It was from St Peter's, Bishop Treanor celebrating. It seemed quite sparsely attended and, I hope it's not an omen but they seemed to have quite some difficulty getting the Pascal Candle lit! It was, however, a generally uplfting service and the Bishop spoke well, recognising that the church in all its parts is made-up as much of sinners as of saints.

One little thing, quite inconsequential, really gave me hope for some odd reason: a youngish guy, just after receiving, quite unconsciously I should think, in the act of raising his hand to cross himself looked up, as if to God, and raised his index finger just before his hand touched his forehead. It was the sort of gesture you'd expect normally to be accompanied by an "A'right mate?". To me it was a sign of the living, real faith that still lights the lives of many ordinary Christians.

P, maybe it was a sign to god: "You're on your last warning, pal."

Chris, does the word "facepalm" mean anything to you?

# 31. Jean Cauvin wrote:
鈥淭he implication is that God cannot be love and at the same time punish anyone in Hell. This is illogical. Could a judge be loving and yet punish Nazis for the crimes of the Holocaust? Could a judge be loving and yet punish a serial rapist? Of course, he would. How could anyone be loving and not punish these people.鈥�

Unlawful crimes such as rape and genocide (the latter of which I know god seems quite fond of) do require potentially loving people to do terrible things. On the other hand, espousing the name of another god does not seem to justify eternal damnation no matter the level of jealousy and hate involved.

#40 MCC Why do they call it easter then? Why did they simply not keep the original word?

Regards
DK

MCC

'Pasch', 'Paschal', 'Paschal lamb, 'Passover', isn't really a reading which is going to help us Protestants much. We're still going to say that Jesus is the fulfilment of the 'shadow' of Passover. As the Jews remember their Exodus from Egypt we see in Jesus our Exodus from one Kingdom and into another.

If 'Easter' means anything to me, it means that I don't need to replace Hebrew festivals and ceremony with Christian festivals and ceremony.

Helio - I wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of your reading... (But I like mine better).

Peter - # 44

Just a quickie - why not?

"It was good enough for Moses..."

The "COR" are without DOUBT, the most ARROGANT, REPULSIVE, CORRUPT, SELF RIGHTEOUS, MORALLY BANKRUPT system the religious world has ever know, they blame everyone else for their own DIRTY SINS but themselves.

Parrhasios

#46, good question, I have been thinking about how best to answer you without writing some kind theological treatise.

Perhaps we might think of it this way - If were to interact with my wife, partner or good friend on the basis of social formalities seeking to win her acceptance by adherence to a code of behaviour rather than the simple recognition/trust/confidence that she loves me, which attitude will best free me to love her in return?

The institutions of society and religion may demand of me and judge me according to dress, protocol, intonation of vowels, rank and education, God, thank God, does not.

Or put it another way, to him who raises an index finger, Jesus gives a 'thumbs up'!

And for sake of continuity with Moses, a little theology may be found in Hebrews 11.

Gonny, this mod. must be Quick Draw McGraw!

John Dynes, and, in common with other deluded people, they think that their god is in a position to forgive them for their sins, rather than the victims. One would like to know who, precisely, this "god" thinks he is. Very convenient to have a magic space pixie to "forgive" the wrongs the "faithful" inflict on other people - it means never *really* having to apologise. As we have seen recently. I'm reminded of the car scene in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" after Delmar and Pete have been baptised. Sorry to break the news, chaps, but god's forgiveness is worthless.

As a Christian, who most certainly therefore believes in the salvific work of Jesus on the cross and also (as a "clear thinker", LucyQ) who believes in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, and the implications of that, the observation of Easter doesn't really mean a huge amount to me. Now I am not knocking the idea of setting aside a certain time of year as a kind of symbol of these truths (there is biblical evidence to support the idea of yearly observances, such as the Passover), but these spiritual realities do not seem any more "real" to me at Easter than at any other time of the year (which is not to be interpreted negatively as meaning that these truths have no reality for me - quite the opposite!). Sorry if that sounds awfully smug - it's not meant to be.

From the point of view of psychological orientation, I can understand that holy days and seasons are eminently useful, and, of course, they create an opportunity to reaffirm the community of faith. The corporate aspect is vital, of course. But the living reality of Jesus Christ in my life through the work of the Holy Spirit (...no, that's not just pious jargon...) is not somehow given a boost when I sing "Thine Be The Glory" on Easter Sunday morning. In fact it doesn't seem to do very much for me, for some reason - a "problem" which I will try to analyse without resorting to too much obsessive navel gazing. (Perhaps in my darker moments I have a sneaking suspicion that, in these days of chronic scepticism and unbelief, there's quite a bit of autosuggestion going on in the corridors of religion. Or am I just getting cynical in my 'young' middle age?)

Not very "religious" am I?

Perhaps I'll start a new sect called "Christian a-religionism" (to go into competition with that curious brand called "Christian atheism"!)

#18 - Peter Morrow -

"The weird thing is this, this 鈥榟oly week鈥� I鈥檝e been thinking about the slogan on the Humani website (or at least the beginning of it) - 鈥淩emember your humanity鈥�, and they kinda have a point. Often humanity is what is forgotten in the adherence to religion, yet, as Christians we鈥檙e called to be fully human, in some ways that鈥檚 what Christian 鈥榮alvation鈥� is - humanity lived in the light of the cross."

Excellent comment.

Boys, there's hope for yis yet. :-)

Celebrate Passover? Why would anyone in their right mind want to celebrate infanticide? Why would anyone want to praise an entity that supposedly carried out this dreadful act? Thank goodness it is just a myth.

DK

#53 - David Kerr -

"Why would anyone in their right mind want to celebrate infanticide?"

There's just a small (though rather fundamental) flaw in your theory: it wasn't infanticide.

Unless of course our newly arrived "mental health worker" wants to believe that the religious leaders who condemned Jesus were his parents!! Now that's not very "sane" is it?

Post 50, Helli, I really think your big hat with the horns upon it has slid over your eyes and its weight has caused you to believe in a apathy that you and other so-called intellectual persons want to force down other peoples throats.

If people want to believe THATS OK, if NOT, THATS OK, of course! for years religion has caused all sorts of problems and there also has been many other ADVENTS as well, which, I really can't be bothered to mention "that" have caused just the same CAUSALITY since time has been recorded from "whatever" date.

The context of my last post was "that" in the light off ongoing CHILD SEX ABUSE of the cathoilc church on INNOCENT CHILDREN and their PATHIC ARROGANT STATEMENTS trying to blame the ordinary catholic and circumstances, on a SIN that is without doubt part and parcel of the system of deep thinking within.

Sorry LVS you lost me.

I was passing a comment on the tenth of the plagues on the Egyptians, where god sends an angel of death to kill all first born males aka the passover. I was curious why such a sad event, if it did or did not happen, should be the cause of a celebration?

"Mental Health worker" ? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck maybe we should just call it a duck..... Enigmatic enough. : )

Regards
DK

#56 - David Kerr -

OK, since this thread is about Easter, which is related to the Passover in the Christian mindset, the Passover Lamb is seen as a foreshadowing and symbol of Jesus Christ, the death of whom is often referred to as infanticide by people who ought to know better. That was the context of my comment (it just goes to show how a minimal comment can be interpreted by different people in different ways).

The historical context of the "celebration" of the Passover was related to the Jews' deliverance from a highly oppressive nation under the judgment of God. I doubt very much that they were celebrating the death of Egyptian children.

If you want to talk about the concept of judgment - and the corporate implications of it - then we could do so (unfortunately it's back to work for me tomorrow, so may not have the time). I don't deny that this is not an easy subject, but the problem of corporate evil is not exactly a cakewalk for your worldview either (in fact, according to your worldview, I don't know what gives you the rational justification to be concerned about any form of evil. What is "evil" anyway in your "sane" thinking - according to the idea of "natural selection"?)

Concerning your "insanity" quips, it seems to me that this is a sign of intellectual immaturity by moving discussion to childish ad hominem attacks. It certainly doesn't do your cause many favours. If you want to talk about "insanity" we could start with some of the ideas within the atheistic view of reality...

(By the way... since you are horrified at the practice of "infanticide" I assume that you are a committed and vocal campaigner against the practice of abortion? I wouldn't want a "sane" atheist like you to be compromised by hypocrisy now, would I?)

LSV

First of all can I say I have enjoyed having the opportunity to exchange views.

I know the use of the word insane does sound harsh and perhaps such honesty is best left to a time in the future when people of a faith, begin to understand, that outsiders do not accept their version of reality? What sounds and feels normal and reasoned to people of a faith comes across as the opposite to people without that particular faith.
For example what are your views on Scientology? My Christian friends are horrified to learn I view both faiths in the same light. Btw I wasn鈥檛 name calling, I was using the term to indicate a complete lack of reason.

Evil? I belong to amnesty international and that reflects, for better or worse, that I support human rights for all. A lot of our works goes into trying to stop people of different faiths slaughtering and ill treating each other. Indeed a lot of faiths do the opposite of good in this world.

Infanticide? I am pro choice. I am also in favour of comprehensive sex education and contraception. Abortion is an extremely sensitive area and I can only hope unwanted pregnancies can be avoided in the first place. I regret that, even in developed countries, teaching youths to abstain from engaging in sex is, in the main, ineffective. Regrettably, the pope has a lot to answer for in this area.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday and can I say I am sorry if my honesty offended you.

Regards
DK