大象传媒

By referencing Hitler, Will, you've just lost the argument and it's now over ;)

Isn't discussing Godwin's Law whilst avoiding referencing to Hitler a paradox? This is going to be hard!

It's okay to call someone a nazi if they're a nazi, ie a national socialist or facist, I think in any other terms it's just laziness. There are much better ways to refer to someone if you disagree with their opinions. To use the term 'Nazi' as a hardliner or someone doing something authortarian is over-used and most cases simply hyperbole.

I quite agree with you Natman. Overuse a word or use it in the wrong context and you diminish its meaning, potentially to the point where the original proper uses lose their impact. Within Christian circles I'd say that the words 'heresy' and 'heretic' have similarly been devalued.

Will, I think the old duck analogy works here, albeit with a minor addition:

If it walks like a duck,
quacks like a duck,
and has a swastika armband like a duck,
it's a duck.

And if it weighs the same as a duck, then it's clearly made of wood.

Although I haven't heard the reference lately, for a few years, here in Canada, it was common to refer to people who where overly diligent in applying petty rules (and being petty tyrants) as "the parking lot Nazi" or "the cloakroom Nazi". Seems harmless enough but maybe in a world where road marking painters are "unqualified and untrained" to remove a roadkill from their path this usage is politically incorrect

Do you think we could discuss the dead badger/road marking situation without substantiating Godwin's Law?

I think far too many people take their online presence too seriously and the amount of people throwing cyber chairs has put me off so many online discussion groups.

Calling someone a _______-nazi is fine, it means someone who is overly opposed to something. Being referred to in this way doesn't mean you are being accused of supporting genocide, you may be being called small minded but by overreacting to the use of the word nazi you're only confirming it.

TuesdayKid (#8),

That's not the literal meaning of a nazi, however, and to use the word nazi in that context is over-using it and robbing it of it's meaning.

Your claim that it refers to 'someone who is overly opposed to something' is a little mild, considering what happened in the early part of the 20th century and is highly offensive to a great many people. Not to mention, in effect, when calling someone a nazi, you're also implying that they're racist, sexist, homophobic, authoratarian and want to invade Poland (even if they didn't start it!).

If you're not wanting to imply that, don't call them a nazi. There's plenty other words in our amazing language that convey the meaning you want.

I -like- Godwin's Law, is preserves the use of the term to applicable contexts only.

Natman,

How does that correlate to the use of the word "vandal"?

Musenheddo (nice name btw),

Good point. I'd have to concede that all words can shift in their meaning, especially when the original meaning of a word is lost or made obselete.

I'm not against the use of the word nazi when in context, and there are people out there with a genuine reason to be called such.

William, have you read Alister McGrath's "Heresy" - pretty good, reading it at the moment.

It's probably not nice to call someone a Nazi for, say, giving you a parking ticket, but surely it's legitimate to compare the policies and practices of an organisation or State with the policies and practices of the Nazis. The Nazis were anti-Catholic, liked to experiment on people with no benefit to them, believed in eugenics and racially targetted contraceptive programmes. Sounds very like Planned Parenthood to me.

Hitler was a Catholic so why did Mince Pius not excommunicate him? People who WERE excommunicated seemed to have done a lot less in comparison.

mccamleyc

I think you have just proved the theory, but almost in reverse, you brought an organisation into the debate and compared it to Nazi-ism.

An organisation who's only crime to-day is not to agree with you, unless you are trying to tar the present day organisation with some of the more barmy claims of its founder who died in 1966 and made most of her more bizarre claims in the 20's and 30's.

But anyway, yep you brought a comparison to Nazi-ism, added complete hyperbole, disingenuous comparisons, spurious linkages, misrepresentation and untruths thereby losing the argument and proving Godwins Law.

The Nazis were not anti-Catholic - a huge proportion of their membership was Catholic, including Der Fuehrer himself, of course. But I suspect you don't want to go down that line. I fully acknowledge that you would *like* for the Nazis to have been anti-Catholic, as this would allow you to demonise others who criticise the RC church as "Nazis", much in line with Godwin's law itself.

Chris, you *really* need to get in touch with reality. Your wee fantasy world is amusing, but it's impeding your ability to think straight.

It's very hard to have fun on this site any more.

Hitler may have been baptized but he was hardly a Catholic and the statistics of persecution clearly indicate the anti-catholicism of Nazism. At least 3 millon Catholics, including 50,000 priests and religious, were murdered by the Nazis.

mccamleyc,

You do know that Hitler killed 3 million Polish catholics because they were Polish, not because they were catholic. Hitler did not target the catholic church in the same way as he did the Jewish faith, and it is very wrong to try and claim that kind of victim-hood to justify your spurious pontifications. I would have thought that if he did, he would have been excommunicated.

Anyone who commits a mortal sin cannot receive the sacraments until he or she repents and confesses. Clearly Hitler didn't repent or confess his mortal sins.

Clearly Hitler didn't target any group the way he targetted Jews - still dead though. Their Catholicism was part of their being Polish and linked to what Hitler thought of as their sub-human peasantry.

mccamleyc ,

Rubbish, they were killed along with millions of other Polish simply because of their nationality, their religion was completely incidental.

Hitler did target other groups - targeted for extermination were :-

Jews,
Romani (sometimes incorrectly referred to as 鈥淕ypsies鈥�),
Jehovah鈥檚 Witnesses,
homosexuals,
persons with physical or mental disabilities
Men and Women of Polish extraction,
Soviet prisoners of war and
Social 'misfits'.

Revising your revisionism does you no credit, I can almost hear the back peddling from here.

You have though proved Godwin again, any actual information about the people you were trying to rubbish is now completely lost as all the concentration is on your pathetic defence of your completely OTT claims about Nazi-ism and catholicism.

MCC

Hitler was only a baptised Catholic, he gave it up when he was able to think for himself.

Ratzinger was only in the Hitler Youth Movement until he was older and could think for himself.

Lol. "A big boy did it and ran away, Mum..."

Okay can we add McCamley's 4th Law where you lose if you can't mention the Holy Father without adding a slur about Hitler Youth.

I think we can include Catholics under "social misfits" category since they clearly didn't fit in with the Nazi ideololgy

MCC

Historical truth isnt like a surplice where you can remove the lace and string or any bits you dont happen to like. Ratzinger was in the Hitler Youth. I know its extremely embarrassing for you, but thems the breaks.

It's not remotely embarrassing - just irrelevant since it was compulsory. He was also in the Wehrmacht. He also paid taxes. Apparently I'm a citizen of the European Union - nothing I can do about that either.

mccamleyc
I think we can include Catholics under "social misfits" category since they clearly didn't fit in with the Nazi ideololgy

I don't think so - catholics were not targeted by Hitler as you have implied.

Next you will be telling us that social misfits includes German speakers because millions of them were murdered.

I am not sure why you want to have this victimhood bestowed on the catholic church, is there some need to try and make them somehow beyond criticism because of there implied persecution. It will not wash.

MCC

During Benny's visit to Israel, Lombardi held a Press conference in Jerusalem in which he stated, "The Pope was never a member of the Hitler Youth. Never, never, never..."

Unforunately, the Pope had already admitted on numerous occasions that he had infact been a member. Lombardi was then forced to retract his earlier statement and "clarify" what he had really "meant" to say.

You'll remember Lombardi also had to do a similar U-ie when he blamed homosexuals for abusing children.

I think the fact that the leaders of our Church have displayed a consistent pattern of lying through their dentures is highly "relevant."

Are you just discovering that Lombardi isn't very good?

Neither I nor the Holy Father ever said he wasn't in Hitler Youth. The issue is the relevance of it. It's repeated as a slur as if he was in the SS or the Nazi Party. He didn't join it - he was joined by the State automatically and he got out of attendance as best he could.

It's dragged out to discredit the Pope and make him sound like a Nazi and it's unworthy. And that's why Mc Camley's Law forbids it on pain of losing the argument.

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