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Two years ago, when the Presbyterian Mutual Society went into Administration, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland made it clear to the press that the PMS was a "separate legal entity" and that it was a mistake to regard the mutual as an agency of the church. They may both have "Presbyterian" in their names, they may even share a website and an email address, but, we were told, it is important not to confuse them. At the time, some members of the PMS regarded this as an attempt by some church leaders to distance themselves and the church from the troubled mutual, even though the church's General Assembly received an annual report from the PMS and openly encouraged congregations and church members to avail themselves of the PMS's services.

On Yesterday's Sunday Sequence, the former moderator who is handling the Presbyterian Church's response to the PMS crisis, Dr Stafford Carson (pictured), gave the clearest signal yet that his church's initial media strategy was a mistake. Here's an excerpt from my interview with Stafford Carson.

Stafford Carson: "Passing the two-year mark, I think it's important to record just how much progress has been made in terms of the overall crisis. You'll recall that we began this whole crisis with nobody really being interesting in us, and the government not paying much attention --"

William Crawley: "You say "us", meaning the Presbyterian Mutual Society?"

Stafford Carson: "Yes."

William Crawley: "Because we started this situation with the Presbyterian Church denying that you were "us"."

Stafford Carson: "We'll of course we probably got off to a bad start on that one. Many of us are both savers and members of the Presbyterian Church ..."

Listen to Sunday's programme in full here.