Ireland ratings v France (168)
- 21 Sep 07, 10:04 PM
Paris – I was at the Stade de France on Friday night as Ireland’s World Cup hopes were left hanging by a thread after a convincing defeat by France.
Here’s how I rated each individual Ireland player’s performance. See whether you agree and let me know your own thoughts.
Girvan Dempsey - Safe under the high ball, and a solid kicking game in defence, but apart from launching a couple of up-and-unders, no running threat from deep. 5
Shane Horgan - Ireland were indebted to him when he raced across from his wing to pull off a try-saving tackle on Poitrenaud. But lost Traille’s high bomb in the air to put Ireland under the cosh. Well shackled on his few raids with ball in hand. 5
Brian O'Driscoll - Could do little of any note to inspire his side, bit not for want of trying. Cut down Poitrenaud with one big tackle but little opportunity in attack and his desperate pass in the final minute that went straight into touch summed up his night. 5
Gordon D'Arcy - Tried to get his dancing feet going with a few darts, and a couple of good off-loads in the second half, but got little change out of the French midfield. 5
Andrew Trimble - His one attacking intervention of the first half ended when referee Chris White impeded him in a promising position. Looked uncomfortable in defence at times, and last-ditch tackle couldn’t stop Clerc from scoring second try. 4
Ronan O'Gara - Launched a succession of high bombs early on to test the French defence, but missed his only penalty attempt. Well-struck drop-goal provided Ireland’s only points, but never got his backline going with the ball he had. 5
Eoin Reddan - Nervous start with a poor kick and caught in possession by Elissalde. Had some messy line-out ball to deal with but lacked authority around base of scrum and Stringer’s speed of pass. Gamble to play him can hardly be counted a success. 4
Marcus Horan - Solid at the set-piece until he tired in final quarter but dropped a pass on the right flank which could have proved costly but for Horgan’s try-saving tackle. 4
Jerry Flannery - First line-out throw went straight to Sebastien Chabal and three others failed to find their target, especially at the back. Replaced after 50 minutes but had to come back on five minutes later and ended up playing most of the match. 4
John Hayes - Scrummaged well enough, matching Milloud for the most part until France splintered the Irish scrum just before the hour. One early charge but spent most of his evening toiling away at the coalface. 5
Donncha O'Callaghan - Struggled to provide clean line-out ball and not his usual boisterous self around the field, despite putting in his fair share of tackles. Replaced by Malcolm O’Kelly for the last eight minutes. 4
Paul O'Connell - The only reliable target in an Irish line-out faltering elsewhere. Couple of first-half charges with ball in hand but spent most of his night furiously trying to man the barricades in defence. Sin-binned when frustration overcame him. 5
Simon Easterby - Another who put in a big shift in defence, one superb cover tackle on Betsen particularly vital when the flanker had an overlap outside him. But unable to claim a couple of line-outs, and replaced late on by Neil Best. 6
David Wallace - Hardly seen in his normal link role in attack, apart from being held up on the line in one of the few periods of Irish pressure. Worked hard in defence but penalised for treading on Sebastien Chabal as the Frenchman lay on the wrong side. 4
Denis Leamy - Little in the way of ball-carrying apart from one charge off the base of the scrum. Penalised at a ruck in first half, and contributed to the ponderous decision-making when his team needed a big showing from him. 4
Replacements:
Frankie Sheahan – Not a great start after replacing Flannery 10 minutes into second half. Missed with first throw to Easterby, conceded a penalty at a French maul, and then went off for blood repairs a few minutes later, only reappearing late on. 2
Simon Best – Came on for Hayes for final six minutes.
Malcolm O’Kelly – Replaced O’Callaghan for last eight minutes.
Neil Best – Threw himself into fray after coming on for Easterby, but too late to make any difference.
Not used: Isaac Boss, Paddy Wallace, Gavin Duffy
Bryn Palmer is the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Sport website’s rugby union editor.
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Agree with the low scores. noone really stood out.
just to ask a question...have you ever seen Stringer's pass? To say that Reddan lacked the speed of Stringer's pass suggests to me that you haven't.
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I think you are being generous.
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A good match and France deserved to win. No doubt I shall be bought a 'patis or two in my local bar tomorrow.As a Scotsman living in France for nigh on 30 years I now support the French, EXCEPT against the Scots.
Douglas.
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A good match and France deserved to win. No doubt I shall be bought a 'patis or two in my local bar tomorrow.As a Scotsman living in France for nigh on 30 years I now support the French, EXCEPT against the Scots.
Douglas.
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That was painful to watch but Ireland tried hard. Can someone tell me how the rules work in the group stages?
I have looked on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ site and can't find any mention of them.
So if Ireland beat Argentina well next week and both teams are on 14 points - who goes through?
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A good match and France deserved to win. No doubt I shall be bought a 'patis or two in my local bar tomorrow.As a Scotsman living in France for nigh on 30 years I now support the French, EXCEPT against the Scots.
Douglas.
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i still think you are being generous
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Eh? Senior players who didn't front up don't get marked at this level. O'Connell in particular - bad tempered, sulky, ineffective. O'Gara - not one attacking initiative that I noticed. O'Driscoll - one tackle and a couple of head-down charges, otherwise nil. Darcy - as above, omitting the tackle and the charges. The least professional performance I've ever seen from an Irish team. Thank God I have Welsh ancestry as well (& I'm sure a great grand-ma came from Georgia). Throw away that shamrock everyone, for this lot ain't worth it.
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Ireland, just a flat team. They need about seven new players
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Ireland did not deserve to win perhaps, but the first three decisions by the ref were very favourable to the French side, and a look at the video should bear out the suspicions that the ref was not neutral
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Beset by poor handling again but the lack of imagination was painfully apparent against a Six Nations side who actually deserve the platitudes they receive.
O'Gara gets a 5 for what? Once again he was shown up as little he did went right. I don't see much point in keeping him on for the forthcoming Six Nations, we might as well do some team building rather than pretend to be contenders. I don't think Reddan did any worse than Stringer would've done in the same game. To be honest I felt he was stronger than Stringer over all. O'Driscoll as captain seems to do little in terms of leading the team other than when things are panning out for him. Sure he can lead by example when he gets decent ball in hand but a captain needs to show leadership all round, not just when times are good. That was absent tonight as it has been for many games of late. Leamy and O'Callaghan were very, very poor. Flannery was appalling - lineouts are fundamental and they were shambolic tonight. I'd go on but I feel sick from that performance.
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I thought we were tactically inept tonight. O driscoll deserved a better rating tho, couldnt do much about a losing side. Some brilliant tackling done by him. Rog was poor along with O Callaghan who is playing awful at the moment. O Kelly should have been brought on earlier, Murphy will surely be in the starting lineup for argentina as we need to get the bonus point, hardly likely thought. SA for the world cup!
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Hey it's difficult to compare this performance to the one against Australia in the autumn internationals only last year.
The French weren't that good - they just played it simple and retained their discipline -
Ireland were on a roll then- young players were coming through. Then suddenly the old "safe" options and even the inevitable league convert appeared and what happened to the morale and development of the younger players -
now it affects the whole team -
anyway - a collective 5 is about right - Stringer and Murphy were well out of it - OK ill-discipline was a killer but Ireland would still have lost.
Not another 4 years of this surely ?
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disagree I think some of those scores are harsh. Bod tried his heart out and diserved a 6.
Flannery was poor and hopefully southern irish fans will appreciate rory best more.
Reddin was worse than stringer.Boss is irelands best scrum half.
The scrum was solid and hayes desreved more but horan is past it.
Trimble and d'arcy were pretty awful an horgan is well below his best.
Leamy had another shocker but easterbuy and wallace tried hard. Surely best deserves a start?
O'connell was poor again and needs to wise up. Ocallahan was quite and o'kelly and quinlin should also be in the frame.
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Sadly as predicted by many the Irish lacked class and perhaps are better suited to playing more minnows like Georgia and Namabia. Terminate O'Sullivans contract now, save us all bring back Gatland as a priority.
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Slightly unfair on Reddan. He kicked, ran and passed effectively, always looked busy and was always involved. "Seige Gun" pass not as effective as Stringer, but a more rounded game I thought.
It was a war of attrition and Ireland lacked the grit to see it anywhere close, certainly the worst game so far from a neutral point of view.
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O'Gara was an absolute disgrace. This team peaked six months ago and have looked less thank ordinary since they destroyed the English in Dublin. To a man they looked overawed by the occassion and lacked penetration. Not to the mention the line outs...
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I know he's not a player, but I feel that a rating for Eddie O'Sullivan is appropriate. He turned out a poorly prepared team with no motivation or game plan yet hedenigrated their opponents, suggesting that they weren't worth their winning margin, and blamed almost everything on the referee. Possibly rates a 2, if one is feeling charitable.
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To give lower marks than the English performance against South Africa is a joke. Both were poor, but Ireland at least had the odd rare whiff of a try...
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I know that he isn't a player, but I feel that a rating for Eddie O'Sullivan is appropriate. He turned out a team that was poorly prepared and lacked both motivation and a game plan, yet after the match he suggested that France weren't worth their winning margin and he blamed almost everything on the refereeing.
If one is feeling charitable, he rates a 2.
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Three backs replacements unused, four forwards playing minor roles in a game we had to claw back, no option to change the game because of a refusal over three years to attempt to bring new players in, thanks Eddie
No Murphy because someone bears a grudge, thanks Eddie
60 minutes of great hanging in there even though the lineout, our supposed area of strength in the forwards, was a complete shambles and we had no consistent ball, thanks Eddie
Constant kicking, and terrible kicking at that, which saw our three quarters completely ignored until the game was lost, thanks Eddie
Ronan O'Gara, the great untouchable, having another shocker when under any pressure, while Humphreys sits back with his feet up enjoying his international retirement, safe in the knowledge that he could be playing better than Barry John in his pomp and still be on the bench for Ireland, thanks Eddie
Pick a squad, take four blindside flankers, play one, give a few cursory runout to your "best", ignore two and take no cover for your number seven or eight, even though one's half-fit and the other's playing like a half-wit, thanks Eddie
A new four year contract before the tournament? Yes please, many thanks, Eddie
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I write from the heart.. and from semi-drunkenness when I say this.. all my dreams and ambitions have been taken from me on this Friday evening. I hate France for their ability to take us out of every tournament for the past 10 years. You smug french mopes, you really don't have a clue what fun is, believe me I've been in your land and I know.
The heroes that I have held close to my heart for the past 6 years have been taken from me.. Paul O Connell has been reduced to a ghost of his former self, knocking on at every attempt to carry the ball forward. being out-muscled in one on one tackles in which he was once feared. ROG.. the boy next door of irish rugby.. looked like Bambi on ice, funting the ball up in the air when he should have been running, never picking the right option.. and eddie O just sitting there and doing nothing when the the S**thouse was falling in around him just astounded me.. where was plan B?
Irish rugby needs to be stripped out top to bottom and a new motor put in.. We focused on power in our preparation and failed miserably, We must go back to basics and get our skills right!!
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Again, another useless performance and another nail in the coffin of this inept Irish team of muppets!
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Three backs replacements unused, four forwards playing minor roles in a game we had to claw back, no option to change the game because of a refusal over three years to attempt to bring new players in, thanks Eddie
No Murphy because someone bears a grudge, thanks Eddie
60 minutes of great hanging in there even though the lineout, our supposed area of strength in the forwards, was a complete shambles and we had no consistent ball, thanks Eddie
Constant kicking, and terrible kicking at that, which saw our three quarters completely ignored until the game was lost, thanks Eddie
Ronan O'Gara, the great untouchable, having another shocker when under any pressure, while Humphreys sits back with his feet up enjoying his international retirement, safe in the knowledge that he could be playing better than Barry John in his pomp and still be on the bench for Ireland, thanks Eddie
Pick a squad, take four blindside flankers, play one, give a few cursory runouts to your "best", ignore two and take no cover for your number seven or eight, even though one's half-fit and the other's playing like a half-wit, thanks Eddie
A new four year contract before the tournament? Yes please, many thanks, Eddie
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Surely Eddie can't pick this same team again to play against Argentina? Why not start with players who might show some passion and flair? Boss? Murphy? Paddy Wallace? Best(all of them)? At this stage, it is clear that this current team can't play, the forwards are slow and lethargic and the backs are just flat. How can you expect to break the line by running and passing sideways across the pitch?
I coach a U16 side who have more nous than this lot. It was very evident against Italy and Scotland, the changes should have been made then. Dropping Stringer alone is a pathetic attempt at management. I have been behind this team from the very start but its time to all pull our heads from the sand, the performance we've been waiting on is not going to come. Change your team Eddie cos its the only chance you have of avoiding an early flight home.
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A bit harsh on Eoin Reddan, he added more than Stringer could ever have done. No way did Easterby deserve the highest score - he was largely at fault for the French kicked try. He failed to listen to both Trimble and Reddan telling him to cover that area.
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Very flat. Again bad use of the bench and still not getting the basics right, plus silly indiscipline.
Oh dear, even for this Irish fan this is getting very hard to watch.........what has gone wrong?
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How can you give O'Conell 5 when the line out malfunctioned, he was hopeless in the loose & got sinbinned for persistent cheating? As for Horgan? who gave a typical half hearted display as tends to always do when faced with superiors opposition> The general petulance of the team as a whole was as sad to see as it was to hear Comical Eddies criticisim of the referee. The penalties given away by the irish were cheap particulary Wallace in the fist half & all were legitimate. At least Redden, Dempsey, Drico, Hayes & Leamy showed a bit of pride in the shirt, the rest have an awful lot of soul seraching to do!
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Very flat. Again bad use of the bench and still not getting the basics right, plus silly indiscipline.
Oh dear, even for this Irish fan this is getting very hard to watch.........what has gone wrong?
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I thought I was watching England in disguise. Slow ball, heads down running, crap kicking from hand, no apparent strategy...
I've given up on northern hemisphere rugby for this World Cup - come on Argentina!!
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I'd give them all about 3 or 4 but Easterby stood out for me, made a bit more ground and some decent tackles, 7 perhaps?
Just seen Eddie OS comments that ref blew them off the park and the penalties before and after ht killed the game. From where I was sitting White was fairly strict on both teams, and if you resort to blaming ref for a bad loss what does that say?
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How comes Ireland scored lower scores than England, when England were absolutely trounced by the Boks, and Ireland actually managed to score some points and were in contention for a bonus point up to around 60 mins? not to say the Ireland performance wasn't poor because it was, compared to how this team has performed over the last few years.
Oh, and I'm an England supporter by the way...
I think that Northern hemisphere teams, maybe with the exception of France, have slipped majorly behind the southern hemisphere teams.
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Complete bias from the British media - Ireland isn't even part of the UK?!? The ITV coverage was atrocious (would someone please explain why they want Ireland to win) - COMPLETE BIAS!!! (and my gread grandfather was Irish!)
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Pretty poor all round from Ireland, I think the ratings are fair. France werent that great, they just played solid.
At least one of the home nations is playing worse than England.
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So disappointing but I think Ireland supporters have just received the massive dose of reality required to bring us down to earth. The French were better in every department and we fail to play well if our world class players do not all perform on the day at the same time. Instead of worrying about strength in depth we are now worrying about the quality of some of the first fifteen. Are the team past their best or are they just missing that vital factor of form that all teams need to click class is permanent but form also wins you games. Sad to say but I think we are on our way home as we have run out of steam never thought I would say that but the team seem headless, lack confidence and are very one dimensional leaving no foundation for belief that breeds confidence that brings victories. On a separate note is there something rotten at the core of the squad something we don't know about? Forget the ref even at my level (Thames Valley invitational) we don't blame the ref - you are either good enough to win games and have the players, plan and qualities to do so or you don't and the better team by far won on the night. What a difference a a year makes - nearly beating the All Blacks and making the Ozzies look flustered and beating an albeit weakened Bok's. Time to put up or shut up as Bentos said on a Lions Tour eithe way we are going home in 1 or 2 flights time.
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Agreed no player stood out.
This rot has been setting in since the provinces exited the HC.
I think the iRFU have to reassess EOS contact €350,000 a year is too much based on this failure. New ideas are needed or we will go into freefall.
Look for a specialist openside with some real phyisicality like McCaw or Smith
New players neeed to unearthed try giving Jeremy Manning, Tommy Bowe, Luke Fitzgerald, Cian Healy and Keith Earls a run with the seniors.
Make theScrum the priority in this regard.
Maybe take a lesson from the South Africians and bring in a techinical advisor like eddie Jones. Jake White is not threatened and the relationship seems to be paying off.
What price a return of Warren gatland.
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Here, here. Commment no.15 should be printed on the front page of every paper in the morning.
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Yep, a pretty miserable might. Even had to play against 16 men! But we still would have lost.
Ireland have peaked - and now it's time for big changes, including EOS.
Nothing to lose against Argentina, so suggest Murphy, Neil Best, Quinlan & Ferris should start. Reddan should stay - did as well as his more vaunted colleagues.
This is still a good team, but too restricted by silly coaching - give thelads their head v Argentina, and we may still see Ireland v All Blacks in QF! Or perhaps we don't want to see that!
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Pretty much on the nail instsfinest. All the ratings are at least 2 points too high.
Tactical management relating to selection of squads/teams and bench used by all Home Nations teams has been inept at best. Too many walking wounded and insuficient cover in key areas.
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I think that after tonights performance EOS will probably put Geordan Murphy on the plane back to Ireland. Otherwise, he'll leave the team the same.
Decisive management...
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4 more years of underachieving at the world cup
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I think that after tonights performance EOS will probably put Geordan Murphy on the plane back to Ireland. Otherwise, he'll leave the team the same.
Decisive management...
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6,7,8 - horrible display barely a 1 between them.
The 2 Locks did not show up. Paul O'C especially looks like he's lost all ability to lead/inspire. A completely weak (schoolgirl-esq)performance in all the world cup. Dirty player.
With forwards like these why even bother if you are a back?
Another competitive match against a top rugby side. . . another defeat - surprised???? Well done eddie - you've won sooo many triple crowns which are worth what exactly? poor showings from the english, welsh and scottish have made a mockery of the 6 nations as a force for development in NH rugby.
Yet for all this we're expecting QF of SF in the world cup? why exactly? We have shown consistently over the last few years that we are only capable of beating poor sides (england/scotland) and teams on tour when it doesn't count. We always lose against the French - because they are the only consistently decent team in the NH!
Eddie has no clue what it takes to beat top teams. he has lost control of his players and discipline in the team. Ireland are now back where they started before Gatland took charge.
The players did a decent defensive job tonight - the attack play however, shows the complete lack of imagination of the coaching staff.
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You are kidding? Dempsey - 6 Horgan - 2 Darcy - 1 (if he was playing) O'Driscoll - 5 Trimble - 4 O'Gara - 1 Reddan - 6 Horan - 4 Flannery - 1 Hayes - 2 O'Callaghan - 2 O'Connell - 3 Leamy - 5 Wallace - 2 Easterby - 7
The ref? Chris Simpson? Not sure. But his first name is Homer.
It wouldn't have made a difference.
But he gave Ireland nothing.
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"Trimble was impeded in a promising position by Chris White"
Have another look, Bryn. White saw the gap and left it open, Trimble didn't see the gap and was in the process of running up a blind alley and disappearing up his own rear end.
Ireland and England could reduce their collective carbon footprint by sharing transport home.
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Some of your ratings are quite harsh. What do you use to rate them? Surely they should be rated against the rest of the team! and not the opposition. Reddan deserved more for one, Dempsey another. When rated against their teammates they were the best on show for Ireland. Also, La Porte showed how a real international coach uses his squad to full effect in modern rugby. E.o Sullivan and his ilk should be consigned to the past as quickly as possible. Lets get an imaginative and brave coach as soon as possible before it's too late. Please!
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Are we discussing the ireland / france game or the chris white i'm the referee show .STINKS the whole thing stinks
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I think the referee decisions in the first 20 minutes of the game were bias towards the French. It unsettled the Irish and they didn't play well, too many handling errors. Every time the Irish were close to scoring a try the French were awarded a penalty, once it was justified.
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I think the referee decisions in the first 20 minutes of the game were bias towards the French. It unsettled the Irish and they didn't play well, too many handling errors. Every time the Irish were close to scoring a try the French were awarded a penalty, once it was justified.
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Let's face it, this Irish team is going nowhere. Eddie, remember the Australia game from last year and give some of the other lads a chance to show themselves at the WC this year. We have *nothing* to lose.
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Murphy's not playing because Eddie finally lost patience with a man who plays great for Liecester and crap for Ireland. I agree Humphreys was better but Eddie made that call. I don't like Eddie but the players have let themselves down. Nobody told Leamy to play stupid. Nobody told ROG to miss touch and kicks at goal and everything else he's tried. But most importantly the pack have been poor at basic set pieces. It's the basics. The ref was pants and picky and wrong on any number of points but good teams cope with that and win the game, like England did in the last one. Ireland played their best game yet. There's still hope.
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Not sure you saw the same game as me! Reddan was the best player on the Irish team and clearly would have made a big difference against Namibia & Georgia too. Trimble should be rated a zero for moving out of position on a French scrum and allowing that stupid first try - an amateur would not have made that mistake. And I agree that the ref did seem to be a home crowd lad. Finally, O'Sullivan clearly picks only "yes" men and his "pets" often don't perform.
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Eoin reddan=Man of the Match
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1Young(looked good in Argentina but really just cause theres no-one better)
2Best
3Hayes
4O'Kelly
5O'Connell
6Leamy(or Easterby with Leamy as impact sub)
7Jennings
8Heaslip
9Reddan
10OGara
11Hickie
12Darcy
13O'Driscoll
14Trimble(looks rattled lately though still better then that hairy donkey Horgan)
15Murphy
That would be my starting XV
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Heading for Paris for Argentina match on Sunday.
Bringing prayer mat,beads, incense, witch doctor and "the special one", seeing he's doing nothing special at the moment, in the hope of a miracle.
I Would request that Ireland bring the following.
Commitment, aggression, skill,physicality and a sense of honouring the fact that they've worked their socks off, over the last two years, to become regarded as a team that were rated before the tournament began but have palpably under-performed when it matters!!
Come on Ireland, do yourselves justice, and give us fans something to celebrate!!
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OOh Ireland are contenders for the World cup everybody harped.
Well and truly stuffed by the better team!
Allez les bleus!
tchah!
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I'd just like to congratulate the IRFU for giving Eddie O'Sullivan another four years.
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give carney and murphy a chance because the wingers we have got now my granny is faster in a wheel chair with one wheel missing and get rid of that tosser eos bacause he is ignoring good players in the english premiership and i think he is a joke with no clue of rugby
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Well what can I say but Ireland lost. But then I don't think that people complained when we lost to France at home in the six nations, NO, why because we nearly beat them and we should have beat them.
However we lose in France and we should have won.
Think about it, we did n't win in dublin!!! Now we are trying to knock the host nation out of the world cup!!!
We are not as good as everyone says (media).
My last point is do you think any of the other home nations would have qualified from the group that Ireland was in?
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We have done it again. For Brian Ashton read Eddie O'Sullivan. The preparation for this world cup was nothing but a sham. A tour of Argentina where second choice players were sent that Eddie will not use. Surely we could have played somebody not in our group? A prep game against a french side with nothing to lose but have their 15 minutes of fame. An potential out half that listens to a south african who tells him to be England fifth choice yet ireland do not have a second choice. A first choice with his own problems who perhaps should be in rehab and not at the world cup. Well done Eddie, inspirational management. have a new contract. Who are the muppets in yhe IRFU who constantly reward failure. Gatland or Kidney anyday. We want a manager with vision and a plan who thinks further than the next game.
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I think he ratings are a little generous. That being said it was harsh on Redden...hard to deliver quality ball to your backs when the much vaunted Irish scrum and line out spent most of the night being pushed around by the French.
I sat and watched in frustration as EOS stuck with his players...O'Gara was not on form (again wasn't getting much to work with, but still) and was left out to dry by EOS. When we needed more dynamism in he pack...where was Best...on the bench until the 70th minute or so.
Many have criticesed R. Best's lineout throwing, please do not try to defend Flannery after tonight's performance.
We can blame the ref all we want, but it was our own indiscipline that cost us the game...and again that goes down to the coach.
I fear for next week's game against Argentina. They have a pack that will eat this Irish bunch alive. Pichot could well outplay whatever scrum half EOS chooses to put out. Unless something drastic occurs we are in for another beating.
The bright dawn of Irish rugby has turned into a nightmare and where should we lay the blame...at the feet of the IRFU and their muppet EOS.
Let's put aside our national pride, and at times parochialism and find a coach who can get the best out of our players...no matter who they are playing.
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Tonight I feel strangely relieved.
The past number of days the majority of our Irish fans and the players themselves have talked the talk and even had me beginning to believe yet again that we might pull of a victory. However it was not to be and if we are truely honest with ourselves it was never really on the cards.
I have mentioned in earlier posts that our confidence was based on autumn wins against two pre season and rusty southern hemisphere sides and one good win against a comical excuse for an english side.
Were we ever as good as we seemed to believe we were?? I don't think so and have been saying this for the last three months.
We have been living in a bubble and tonight it has finally been burst.
Forget bonus points against argentina as it will NOT happen. Infact I believe the Pumas will dispatch us in much the same manner as France.
I repect Eddie O' Sullivan and these players for what they have done for Irish Rugby, but they have not and will not I fear ever succeed when it comes to the crunch and the big trophies.
Ireland need a new direction now and a new impetuous. They have experianced too many hugh disappointments together.
I truely believe that Eddie O'Sullivan should walk away now. If he does not I fear for what will happen in the six nations 2008.
I am truely gutted.
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we can go on to complain all day and night about how this decision and that decision was not given or wrongly given by the referee. But the truth of the matter is ireland again failed to turn up to a rugby match, in what has been an utterly dissappointing and forgetable world cup thus far. We lack any thrust upfront and what dynamics we once pocessed in the backs has simple vanished with no imminent return in site we can safely say our world cup journey is over. Even if we manage to wake up and play a bit of rugby against the argies, i wouldnt bet the house on us crossing the white wash against the all blacks!!
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To Jasper T.
Any man who is willing to exchange the shamrock for anything else is not worth accepting. Your comment is not welcomed sir.
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right i'm after a tank of beer but for gods sake can someone explain what the hell has happened! awful stuff again but at least maybe we fought a bit harder.. if eddy has any balls he will change it radically for the argy game but you can almost name his team now.. no change in 14 positions.. we have no chance of scoring 4 tries against argy! what a joke! i'm going to paris next weekend and no i'm not sure if i can be bothered.. eddy has ruined it for us all.. disgraceful effort but anybody who knows anything about rugby knew that his bench was piss poor for tonights game and when we needed something to change it up we had nothing to bring on.. where was murphy quinlan and carney at home picking their noses thats where eddy you muppet!! could try now to say who should play next wek but eddy will play the same old uselsss dopes.. calaghan, connel, horan, leamy, walace go learn how to play with heart again.. as for the backs go back to basic school of rugby,... pass run straight not across the field and give us some chance of brekaing teh game line.... disgrace!! bring back gatland who was thrown out cos eddy wanted it all his own way.. and look where that has got us!! good night ireland i hope when i wake up this is all just a dream but somehow no amount of guinness will get rid of this nightmare i reckon...
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bring in carney and murphy 2 wings now granny faster in wheel chair with one wheel missing eos got 2 go ignoring better players in english premietrship and he has not got clue about rugby
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I think EOS has to go no matter what happens against Argentina. If anyone has to take the blame for the Irish decline then it's got to be him. His petty selections, inept replacement strategy, one dimensional gameplan have cost us dear. I always thought that England won the world cup despite Woodward and now it looks like EOS has done worse to a gifted Irish squad
RIP Irish rugby!
For what its woth I though BOD played a captains game, Reddan didn't flinch when dumped into the fire and yes the ref missed a few French indiscretions but they were the better team without question!
In the next game we need to attack from the start. Murphy and Best must start and ROG must exorcise his demons or we're sunk.
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O'Sullivan has shown over the past few weeks that he has done all he can for Irish rugby.His preperation has been wrong,his selections have been poor,his tactics hav'nt worked and he does'nt seem capable of getting the best out of his players anymore.He no longer comes ackross as a man confident in himself or his team.It all seems a bit stale.Honestly I fear for the future of Irish rugby.
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Well I have to say that it was a poor Irish performance. The forwards didn't show up, what ball they did get was retreating, ponderous and ill-used, and they were jittery in defence and could have conceded a lot more.
I've now seen the French play an appalling Irish side and an appalling English side in the past month, and a good French side would have put 40 points on both.
New Zealand won't be quaking in their boots; there'll be no European sides in the semis in my opinion.
To answer some comments here, I thought the referee was poor, but in both directions. How many last warnings do players need? And is there a referee in the world who knows how to referee both the scrum and the tackle area? Until the laws state that the tackled player should not play the ball with his hands on the ground, this will continue to be an absolute mess as it is today.
Well done France, goodbye Ireland.
PS I worked in a bar tonight, full of French rugby fans who portrayed their nation as an arrogant bunch of ignorant rugby fans. I've lived here for 8 years and they don't get any better.
Please don't let them win it....
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I disagree wit the reddan comment..He was very quick to the breakdowns and passing was almost flawless..Probably the most outstanding player of tonights squad in my opinion and showed more lustre than stringer.The ref also took that knock early on and i think it affected some of his judgments.Ireland now have to win against argentina with 4 tries and a superior margin of 7 points to go thru..What a challenge for them but i still believe in this team...Go on IRELAND!!!
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Well I have to say that it was a poor Irish performance. The forwards didn't show up, what ball they did get was retreating, ponderous and ill-used, and they were jittery in defence and could have conceded a lot more.
I've now seen the French play an appalling Irish side and an appalling English side in the past month, and a good French side would have put 40 points on both.
New Zealand won't be quaking in their boots; there'll be no European sides in the semis in my opinion.
To answer some comments here, I thought the referee was poor, but in both directions. How many last warnings do players need? And is there a referee in the world who knows how to referee both the scrum and the tackle area? Until the laws state that the tackled player should not play the ball with his hands on the ground, this will continue to be an absolute mess as it is today.
Well done France, goodbye Ireland.
PS I worked in a bar tonight, full of French rugby fans who portrayed their nation as an arrogant bunch of ignorant rugby fans. I've lived here for 8 years and they don't get any better.
Please don't let them win it....
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Well I have to say that it was a poor Irish performance. The forwards didn't show up, what ball they did get was retreating, ponderous and ill-used, and they were jittery in defence and could have conceded a lot more.
I've now seen the French play an appalling Irish side and an appalling English side in the past month, and a good French side would have put 40 points on both.
New Zealand won't be quaking in their boots; there'll be no European sides in the semis in my opinion.
To answer some comments here, I thought the referee was poor, but in both directions. How many last warnings do players need? And is there a referee in the world who knows how to referee both the scrum and the tackle area? Until the laws state that the tackled player should not play the ball with his hands on the ground, this will continue to be an absolute mess as it is today.
Well done France, goodbye Ireland.
PS I worked in a bar tonight, full of French rugby fans who portrayed their nation as an arrogant bunch of ignorant rugby fans. I've lived here for 8 years and they don't get any better.
Please don't let them win it....
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Unfortunately, the tactic of kicking for field position went on for way too long. Needed to utilise the attacking skills of the backline. When the ball was in hand, there was no structure to their play..hope for the best kind of stuff. Not a way to win a game. Another key was the scrum half is just not good enough for international rugby. Yeah Stringer didnt play well last week but still would have been better. The big names of the team just did not step up at all. Im scrathing my head at the moment wondering what the hell is going on, after the six nations which i thought Ireland were unlucky to win, i thought the Irish could build on it and take it to another level. Here i am an Australian in aus before the world cup telling anyone wholl listen including kiwis to watch out for ireland. How wrong they made me look.
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Eddie has to go! This team have looked under strength and underweight and been out muscled by Scotland, Italy, Namibia and Georgia before tonight. That they made a bit of a showing before France closed tem out is some credit to them. Yes a southern hemisphere ref wouldn't have penalised them as much but a better prepared team would haave arrived at this match witha sense of confidence rather than the scared mice we saw. And what about the rest of the squad? Just there to make up numbers? eddie you've managed this badly - perhaps you're too close to your 'star' players but I think you should do the honourable thing and resign. It was good for a while but you've lost the plot.
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A parting note must we endure ITV at the next RWC how awful are they FRA V IRE the pivotal fixture of the host nations campaign OH NEVER WORRY what about ENG V SAMOA CRUCIAL .
What a great performance by the English referee ,lets go to the ENGLAND camp . Jim Rosenthal really what are the opening titles about lets paint some people and let them jump of trees .´óÏó´«Ã½ WHERE ARE YOU !!!!
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Way to generous me thinks!! Apart from BOD and Dempsey everyone else should have at least one point deducted.
Instsfinest - couldn't agree more, and it's particularly frustrating when armchair supporters can detect the ineptitude shown by EOS when selecting the 2nd row and back row combinations for this WC and supposed professionals in the management team cannot!
I also agree with Terry regarding the blooding of new players, and would love to see the likes of; Manning, Heaslip, Healy, Earls, and further down the line Toner in the 2nd row and Hagan in the front row being given a shot. (Leinster would seem to be doing things correctly from a development perspective)
We should give up the gost on this fiasco already and start to build for the future, remember we have just won the U20's Gran Slam so it should not be all doom and gloom.
The IRFU needs to be brave and dump EOS, bring in a technical advisor as Terry says and a manager with a proven track record.
As for this current team I'm afraid it's Munster and the Munster pack which seems to have had it's day along with their half back pairing also! For the Argentina I would go with:
S.Best
J.Flannery
B.Young
P.O'Connell
M.0'Kelly
A.Quinlan
S.Ferris
N.Best
E.Reddan
P.Wallace
G.Darcy
B.0'Driscoll
B.Carney
G.Murphy
We will loose but the majority of these guys would be out to prove a point or two I would imagine. I think however we should really be looking towards to a lessor degree the 6N and more importantly the next RWC and start experimenting and coming up with options like the following:
C.Healy
R.Best
B.Young
B.Casey
P.O'Connell
D.Leamy
J.Heaslip
S.Jennings
E.Reddan
P.Wallace
T.Bowe
G.Darcy
B.0'Driscoll
A.Trimble
G.Murphy
It can't be worse than what we have witnesses since November last year (barring Italy & England 6N) because, and let´s face it here, this is not just about what went down at the world cup we have been stuttering and playing poorly for the majority of the past 10 months...
Right now I'm still so frustrated by everything that has gone down and I can't help think that this is a terrible way for this team to end...
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Credit where credit is due, France were solid in defence, both backs and forwards.
Their first try was a piece of class. A beautiful disguised chip on seeing Trimble sprint infield and leave a hole.
France deserved to win and used their squad effectively.
White did blow a lot in France's favour for those first few penalties, he's an egotistical idiot on a power trip. Seriously a penalty for "uneccesarily walking on a player". It wasn't a stamp. Why didn't he penalise Chaval for "not rolling away". I don't think it was wrong of EOS to point a finger at the ref...but you only do that when you lose.
I thought Reddan played well - he had some fire in him and he was looking to cause damage and run the ball. A few more games with these backs and there would be more of an understanding, he's way more dangerous than Stringer.
EOS has been made to look like a schoolboy selector. Sticking with the "best 15", no use of the squad and no plan B. There is depth in the Irish squad but he hasn't used it. One of our most dangerous backs wasn't even on the bench....because he missed a tackle in the 6N...ridicolous!
Why did Ireland NEVER compete for French lineouts???
Not one Irish forward even jumped once to force a mistake, they just turned and binded on every lineout to be prepared to hold the French pack. That must have been the gameplan...but on EVERY lineout?? France were gauranteed possesion every time.
It was a depressing night, and EOS has been made to look really bad, because there are talented players on the Irish team.
It looks bad, but you know, its not over! If Ireland play like they've nothing to lose and run the ball against the Argies we can score four tries and win by more than 7.
ITS NOT OVER!!
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we were pathetic, but some bizarre ref decisions. what's his AGENDA?
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The ref was a picky ass, but by and large he was consistent; he penalised Ibanez for stepping on an Irish player exactly the same way he gave a penalty to france in the first half, for example. EOS is simply not good enough as a coach, play favourites, and plays safe instead of taking chances. He'd rather lose respectably than play to win. And the ethos has rubbed off on his team.
That said, Ireland were miles better than ingerlund. At least france had to put in an effort. You're going to get brutalised by the Argentina pack if your guys don't front up though.
Now, I'm going to start praying after hadden wimped out and put a second string side against NZ. (See above comment on EOS - play to win every game, or don't bother playing)
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Bryn, good to see you aren't jumping on the anti-Irish bandwagon. Let's keep our poor neighbours down..eh?
Most of your ratings are a joke. To give reddan that score and call for stringers return is pathetic.
I would rather read a true journalists version of events.
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Bryn, good to see you aren't jumping on the anti-Irish bandwagon. Let's keep our poor neighbours down..eh?
Most of your ratings are a joke. To give reddan that score and call for stringers return is pathetic.
I would rather read a true journalists version of events.
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Bryn, good to see you aren't jumping on the anti-Irish bandwagon. Let's keep our poor neighbours down..eh?
Most of your ratings are a joke. To give reddan that score and call for stringers return is pathetic.
I would rather read a true journalists version of events.
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If Ireland beat Argentina (scoring 4 tries) with a bonus point and also deny Argentina a bonus point (coming within 7 points in losing), they will finish second in the group and play a QF in Cardiff (against the winner of the Scotland B vs New Zealand game).
If they defeat Argentina without scoring 4 tries, yet deny Argentina a bonus point - France will win the group and Argentina will finish second.
Ireland needs to score tries to have any chance of qualifying and Argentina needs to gain at least a bonus point to win the group (and have a QF vs Scotland A).
The best way to beat Argentina is to gain an early lead and force them into attacking play to stay within 7 (counter-attacking to score tries/more tries).
The World Cup, as an event, would best be served in Ireland denying Argentina a bonus point and allowing the Springboks to take on the French (as they did England) in a Paris semifinal.
It would be unfortunate if one of the pivotal games of an event hosted by France was their game with New Zealand in Cardiff.
In future the northern event hosts could be Celtic (Ireland, Scotland and Wales) or England or France or European other (for example, Italy and Spain/Portugal) or the Americas.
PS
I was surprised that what was once regarded as the strength of Irish play (the lineout) was not used to challenge the French (playing an aging loose forward at lock) - why did the Irish not pin the French in their own half and try to steal their lineout ball? Should O'Kelly start with O Connell and O'Callaghan come on for impact later when the game opens up?
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I think what is wrong with the irish team is that their whole focus changed when the argies beat the french,they were in the mindset that the pivotal game was against argentina and if they beat them they would go through,but by them beating france they were put under more pressure immediately,before even playing a game,and it has showed in their preformances so far,still not enough of an excuse of course,because they have still under preformed
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Hang on a minute here,
Today the boys played with a bit of heart against a team that were clearly more talented in pretty much every area of the pitch. Remember we haven't beaten the French since 2000 in France and that was the first time since the early seventies. We only let in two trys.
Yeah, we overated our team, but at least give them credit for getting back to basics and not trying to play some sort of miracle off loading game.
I do however think that this should be EOS point to resign. Perhaps get Declan Kidney in. Not pretty but lets face it Ireland are never going to win being pretty.
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Think of this people. "France gets knocked out of World Cup in France after losing to Argentina and Ireland!". It was never going to happen.
We'll crush Argentina. I have no doubt! Ireland have put up with more adversity with this and I'm telling you we will destroy Argentina.
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79 Alan
Ibanez didn't step on a player, he was standing behind the ball digging at the player on the ground. Easterby or Wallace or whoever it was literally just walked over Chavel and put one foot on his ass. C'mon!
And Hadden didn't "wimp out". He's using his head and giving other players a chance to show their mettle and fight for a place. He's using his squad to keep players hungry (and uninjured) and see what others can bring to the table if they get a shot.
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Ireland are exactly where they expected to be at the start of the tournament-having to thrash the pumas to advance.This was expected and predicted but the worrying thing is the form of the team.There is one big game in this team and we're not gone yet.Motivation is the key.They will need to lift the heads and hearts.
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Looks like next game is the real test for eddie--he has to tell OGara to stop kicking the ball away and give it out to the backs--the loose forwards must also try to keep ball in hand and off-load asap. Why do these northern hemisphere teams kick the ball to the opposition?
Finally where is Keith Gleeson? there is no loose forward there at moment willing to gain yardage.
Going back to Georgia Game why did Eddie not drag the big georgian forwards from side to side of the pitch to tire them out? Surely what was banging straight into the georgians going to achieve.
I am afraid Eddie would barely make it as a coach in NPC here in nz.
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Difficult to find any positive points in this tournament for far. A tired looking team reduced to a stale bickering bunch of provincial factions if the rumours are to be believed. The back row was annonymous eclipsed by their French counterparts. O Connell was a disappointment and the front row just don't hack it at this level. O Driscoll tried his best but Darcy was unseen for most of the match and Trimble looked out of his depth. Reddan looked less than international class but he had a poor service for most of the nignt. O Gara kicked poorly when we needed him most and seemed off the pace for large portions of the game.
What happened to the Triple Crown side? The post mortem needs to be thorough and brutal and a new cycle needs to begin.
In the meantime it is difficult to see us scoring 4 tries against the Pumas but it would be great to have something to cheer about.
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First up let me state that I am English. Last night I was hoping that Ireland could knock France out of the World Cup.
Sadly they were not up to it and were outplayed in every single aspect of the game.
The Irish Scrum disintegrated in the second half, their Line out was a shambles and the pack was always second best in the loose being driven off the ball at the rucks and shoved backwards at mauls when the French were in posession. Apart from a couple of rolling mauls of their own when in posession and a couple of thrusts by Easterby they were well and truly stuffed.
Behind the scrum, the service provided by Reddan was poor and he was frequently caught in posession (I know its difficult behind a retreating pack). O'Gara's kicking out of hand was dreadful and he missed a relatively simple kick at goal. As an attacking force the threequarters were anonymous against a fierce French defence which was outstanding. Defensively the Irish tackled manfully under incredible pressure but in the end the pressure told.
I am, however, disgusted that Eddie O'Sullivan should criticise Chris White, who in my opinion, had a superb match - perhaps O'Sullivan was attempting to deflect criticism of a poor team performance and, possibly, his own shortcomings as a coach. He should just have put his hands up and stated the obvious - Ireland were not good enough on the night, deserved nothing other than a defeat and were outplayed by France.
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Difficult to find any positive points in this tournament for far. A tired looking team reduced to a stale bickering bunch of provincial factions if the rumours are to be believed. The back row was annonymous eclipsed by their French counterparts. O Connell was a disappointment and the front row just don't hack it at this level. O Driscoll tried his best but Darcy was unseen for most of the match and Trimble looked out of his depth. Reddan looked less than international class but he had a poor service for most of the nignt. O Gara kicked poorly when we needed him most seemed off the pace.
What happened to the Triple Crown side - the post mortem needs to be thorough and brutal and a new cycle needs to begin.
In the meantime it is difficult to see us scoring 4 tries against the Pumas but it would be great to have something to cheer about.
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In fairness John Phelan the Irish team tried the whole 'off-load asap' bit against Namibia and Georgia. Unfortunately it just resulted in lots of knock ons and interceptions.
While I would dearly love if Ireland could play like a Southern Hemisphere side the evidence points to the negative.
Kicking the ball towards the opposition isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just that our line out isn't functioning at the moment (and it really hasn't been for at least a year. Remember Rome?) and our players seem to be having trouble finding touch. South Africa (and the England 20003 team) do a lot of kicking so obviously it can work.
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Beset by poor handling again but the lack of imagination was painfully apparent against a Six Nations side who actually deserve the platitudes they receive.
O'Gara gets a 5 for what? Once again he was shown up as little he did went right. I don't see much point in keeping him on for the forthcoming Six Nations, we might as well do some team building rather than pretend to be contenders. I don't think Reddan did any worse than Stringer would've done in the same game. To be honest I felt he was stronger than Stringer over all. O'Driscoll as captain seems to do little in terms of leading the team other than when things are panning out for him. Sure he can lead by example when he gets decent ball in hand but a captain needs to show leadership all round, not just when times are good. That was absent tonight as it has been for many games of late. Leamy and O'Callaghan were very, very poor. Flannery was appalling - lineouts are fundamental and they were shambolic tonight. I'd go on but I feel sick from that performance.
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In fairness John Phelan the Irish team tried the whole 'off-load asap' bit against Namibia and Georgia. Unfortunately it just resulted in lots of knock ons and interceptions.
While I would dearly love if Ireland could play like a Southern Hemisphere side the evidence points to the negative.
Kicking the ball towards the opposition isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just that our line out isn't functioning at the moment (and it really hasn't been for at least a year. Remember Rome?) and our players seem to be having trouble finding touch. South Africa (and the England 20003 team) do a lot of kicking so obviously it can work.
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comment 43, I wouldnt classify scotland as a poor side at this world cup and wales havent done that bad either, England were always expected to struggle. Scotland have a chance against argentina in the quarters. This is coming from an Irish person!
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As a Welshman I have been suprised and disappointed at how little impact the GB teams have managed to muster for this world cup - they're all full of tears during the anthems and then go to pot on the field. That said - the ref on this one was rubbish, as frustrating as they get - overly trigger happy, getting in the way of play and missing a score that what would have been meant a sure fire negative player score for Flannery. The commentators were talking about the possibility of Chris White refing the final - On that performance that would just be another NH embarassment to add to the others we've been witnessing over the last 3 weeks.
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A few comments that the referee was a homer... sorry boys... not even that to fall back on.
He gave Irish players "last warnings" and "don't do that again" and "be very careful" about ten times. His 'carte jaune' should have come out twenty minutes earlier.
Comprehensive win for the French. In fact the scoreline does not do the extent of their dominance justice.
Ireland have much work to do.
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Now we know Chris White is a bit whistle happy, but unfair to either side - i think not. His decisions were indicative of a struggling Irish side under pressure.
As for EOS comment that France perhaps were not worth their winning margin. What a load of crap! Did he miss the wrongly disallowed France try from another bungled line out by Flannery, Chris White for once not paying attention. The scoreline would also have been greater if Elissade/Michalak had had his kicking boots on.
And to blame Easterby for the first Clerc try! He was Trimble's man and Trimble should have stayed on him. Genius kick like that would have needed a winger to cover not a blindside flanker. Easterby was one of the few to come out with head held high...
Just a few thoughts from a neutral - it was a very disappointing game.
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(sorry if this is a duplicate posting - got connection errors here)
Beset by poor handling again but the lack of imagination was painfully apparent against a Six Nations side who actually deserve the platitudes they receive. O'Gara gets a 5 for what? Once again he was shown up as little he did went right. I don't see much point in keeping him on for the forthcoming Six Nations, we might as well do some team building rather than pretend to be contenders. I don't think Reddan did any worse than Stringer would've done in the same game. To be honest I felt he was stronger than Stringer over all. O'Driscoll as captain seems to do little in terms of leading the team when things are panning out for him. Sure he can lead by example when he gets decent ball in hand but a captain needs to show leadership all round, not just when times are good. That was absent tonight as it has been for many games of late. Leamy and O'Callaghan were very, very poor. Flannery was appalling - lineouts are fundamental and they were shambolic tonight. I'd gone on but I feel sick from that performance.
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The chickens everyone was warning about have come home to roost. It wasn't ok on the night. Irealnd played with more passion but they really are a poor team.
So, it wasn't the throwing at the lineout - although Flannery's throwing was eccentric at times - it was always the jumpers. O'Connell and O'Callaghan were not up to it and the backrow are simply not athletic enough - and in the loose, O'Callaghan is just a lightweight. He's simply not good enough.
Marcus Horan is also a lightweight and has no basic skills.
Wallace is too old and invisible and Leamy simply hasn't got the ball-carrying skills and nous required at international level.
O'Gara was pathetic, again, from the first kick. What is it with his tongue? He gives us no options. His kicking is erratic and he couldn't make a half-break to save his life. It was embarrassing to see him try. O'Sullivan must pay for sticking with O'Gara.
Finally, sadly, O'Driscoll is past it - and should not be captain. At what point in any of the world cup matches did he show any leadership or galvanise the team? On the contrary, every game, they lost their purpose, lost whatever confidence they had and started to unravel. He'll be lucky to be around in 2 years.
And O'Sullivan? He was always a conservative, mentally fragile, narcissistic, Napoleon. No ability to pick a team, no ability to see its problems and deal with them, no ability to prepare a team mentally and no ability to send them out on to the pitch with a winning strategy - or a fall-back position. Shameful. And don't go on about the three triple crowns. Ireland struggled in many of those games and always got stuffed by the French. O'Sullivan has to go - what were the IRFU thinking of?
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The French deserved to win, but I still think Ireland have a chance against Argentina - surely it was always going to come down to this game anyway?
But what a dreadful referee. I don't know whether he was biased or not (I'm a Scot, so my chip on the shoulder was removed for the night), but he continually stopped the game for petty offences, rendering what should and could have been a classic game nearly unwatchable.
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what ireland were doing not playing peter stringer was suicidal eoin reddan would not be able to cope with the pressure of playing his first game for ireland against france and so he didnt his so called sniping runs didnt come off if you wanted reddan to play why didnt you play him in a warm up game
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Hi everyone,
As a French guy I am of course glad about the French victory against Ireland yest' BUT I have to say that I feel quite embarrassed about the fact that our TV channel (TF1) didnt't show the interview with O'Driscoll after the match, which I think it should have been shown (at least for respect to the team and the game). My country, for a change, has proved its "chauvinism" but I have to say that this particular TV channel doesn't seem to know or understand the game nor its real values.
I am impressed though about the performance of the 5 front players (don't know their names, sorry)..
I didn't understand the absence of Stringer, who I think plays a really good game (along with O'Gara)..
Good luck for the game VS Argentina
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The French deserved to win, but I still think Ireland have a chance against Argentina - surely it was always going to come down to this game anyway?
But what a dreadful referee. I don't know whether he was biased or not (I'm a Scot, so my chip on the shoulder was removed for the night), but he continually stopped the game for petty offences, rendering what should and could have been a classic game nearly unwatchable.
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In a very competitive field, EOS must be the poorest coach in international rugby since the unlamented Matt Williams. He had been getting away with it until this season because he could rely on some very fine players; now that they seem to be over the hill, his inadequacies are inescapable.
At least on this occasion he didn't make wild accusations about the conduct of opposition players.
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Huge disappointment again, but no surprise. Perhaps now we can stop referring to BOD and Darcey asthe worlds best centre combination, they haven't been that for about 4 years, if then. Ditto, POC and DOC,mere shadows of their former selves. Tactically inept, clueless in attack, we really do miss Humphreys.
Time for EOS to step down, of course he won't. IRFU must grasp the nettle.
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Stringer??? good grief, NO!! He has already lost the confidence of his captain.. Reddan should indeed be allowed some matches to settle in, and I did not see him lose any ball last night, he recovered any errors he made.
However...
Will some journalist have the nous to please ask Mr O'Sullivan why, when the team is drifting further and further away from any hope in a game, he persists with more of the same. If something is not working, you fix it, as fast as you can. Substitutions with five minutes to go are a total waste of time. Replacements were evidently required after an hour last night to at least freshen things up..
Why was O'Gara left on the pitch. It is evident and has been for a few years, that once he starts off badly, he continues that way. We all know how he will play within the first 15 minutes.
With no back line imagination, where were Murphy and Carney ??
I could not imagine Hickey being swatted out into touch (second try) nor being "missing" from the wing (first try). Trimble is not a winger, Eddie O'Sullivan is no longer an option.
P.S. good call to whoever referred to him as comical eddie; I would laugh if I didn't feel so let down. Rebuild now from the top down for the 6N.
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What a shambles ! EOS has no sense of failure. They were pathetic. How can you rate ROG - he wasn't there along with Darcy, Wallace, Leamy, Horgan, Horan etc.
Reddan played better than Stringer did against the minnows but the problem is ROG - he does not boss the game - can't kick any more, can't run - never could. If Humph had played at least he would have kicked the corners every time and given the team some chance ( sorry I forgot we didn't have a lineout last night ) Where are the subs - 70-80 min subs - has he ever watched the top 4 interantional teams - they bring on subs after 50 mins - even though you may say the bench wasn't great they couldnt have done any worse. problem stems from the fact that no-one is playing for their place - it is guaranteed that the same 13 play each game at least if not 15 for the last 3 years. bring in some point of difference let guys with passion play who are not stale - Neil Best, Carney, Ferris, Murphy - guys who will shake it up a bit and get in the faces of the Argies not like that big girl O'Connell tried to do last night. Well hope EOS has the guts to resign when the team get dumped out of the world cup next weekend. The failure lies with the coach letting all his first team sunbathe when the other guys were playing their only rugby this summer in argentina - well done Eddie
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Best wishes to the Irish team for their last game.
As you can imagine the full stadium will support them in France!
Even if the referee was a bit too harsh to them, although a yellow card could have been given earlier I must admit it is quite exiting to be accused of beeing favoured by an English ref. We have been unfairly punished so many times in the past!
I don't know how many times Ireland beat us in te past but you could probably count it on one hand main of them probably in the 1920's when we entered into the tournament. Just note they only won 1 grand Slam in more tant 100 participation in te 5&6 N. So, yes BOD has a nice haircut but this is not just enough to win rugby games.
The media overrated a little that Irish side as well as we overrated our team before the Argentinian game.
I am still not very confident for our future but it is maybe better for us to play that QF in Wales. Then a miracle could happen...
Let's first beat Georgia and we'll se.
I really hope we will keep the WC in the NH.
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Following the French defeat, Eddie O'Sullivan has now no choice but to overhaul his struggling team. He could realistically make anything from 6 to 12 changes and he needs to, as his team looked tired and devoid of ideas last night.At least the heart and commitment reappeared.
The Argentinians will provide a very different challenge next week for the men in green. I think it's time to go horses for courses, keep the game tight in the first half and try to control the game better than they did last night. Essentially we need to do to the Pumas, what the French did to us.
For that I want a big, heavy pack to protect the ball (it will inevitably be slower ball) and backs to take the ball moving forward. Sheahan, S.Best, O'Kelly, Quinlan and N.Best to come in for Horan, Flannery, either lock could go and both flankers. In the backs take out Dempsey and D'arcy. Perhaps RoG needs a break too, but I worry about Wallace's lack of experience at #10, both for Ulster and Ireland.
That said my team is:
15. Murphy,
14. Carney,
13. O'Driscoll,
12. Horgan,
11. Trimble/ Hickie
10. O'Gara/ Wallace,
9. Reddan
8. Leamy,
7. N.Best,
6. Quinlan
5. O'Connell,
4. O'Kelly
3. Hayes,
2. Sheahan,
1. S.Best
Subs ( big role to be played here):
16. Flannery, 17. Horan, 18. O'Callaghan, 19. Easterby, 20. Stringer, 21. O'Gara/ Wallace, 22. Duffy
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Don't use the ref as an excuse.
I think White had a shocker too BUT the teams have all been briefed on what refs are going to pick up on and the refs have been given strict guidelines.
Laporte has obviously picked up on this - France's discipline was fantastic (not traditionally their strong suit) whilst Ireland walked into all the bear traps that were out there. Why didn't EOS brief his players properly or, if he did, why weren't they listening?
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Feel sorry for the Irish. This was supposed to be their best chance at an RWC, and they've lost their rhythm.
Can't criticise O'Sullivan for Stringer's absence, but to leave out Geordan Murphy was nuts.
He makes Ireland tick because suddenly they have too many attacking runners for the opposition to live with. They then have Horgan, Bowe and Murphy running lines off O'Driscoll and D'arcy.
As an England fan, you know who the players are that you don't want to see in the oppo 22. Murphy is one of them, same as Chabal is for France, Carter for NZ, Burke was for OZ.
Ireland need to stop playing politics with their selection. Get over the fact Murphy plays outside the country and pick your best 15.
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I disagree with some comments. I think Reddan had a good game given the circumstances and at least he challenged the French defence and made them think twice. I thought Trimble had a worse game than you seem to think and his error of leaving the blind side free for the try was elementary. I thought Easterby had a very poor game and gave away far too many penalties. However, this was a desperate game for two desperate teams and it was never going to be pretty. Over all, the French deserved it but Chris White did not have a good game either.
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All in all the average score was correct, maybe even a little high. But to put horgan on the same score as GOD is unfair. Horgan made several mistakes, Drico may not have shined like he can, rarely made an error. Trimble deserves a much lower score for his part in the tries conceded. I, personally thought Reddan and Easterby were the only players to emerge with any real credit. Stringer hasn't done enough to force his way back in. Reddan made a few mistakes, but these were mainly due to Eddie never playing him, and his need to "make an impact", his clearance kick under pressure and line break down the wing were great. Simon hit hard and appeared to be carrying the pack on his own. In the end France easily deserved the game (the ref was consistently annoying to both sides, but at least he did it fairly). But the disappointing thing is that they won due to our mistakes, not their undoubted ability.
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Well done France. But sorry, their not a great side and will get battered by the big guns. A soft ref and a poor Ireland made them look good.
John
Ruislip
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Only one man for the job of rescuing Irish pride against Argentina. Ross O'Carroll-Kelly. So what if he's just a fictional character. He's closer to reality than the collection of muppets deluding themselves that we're a serious rugby power.
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how likely is a bonus point ie 4 tries and a win.where could it come from and before you say it not from the opposition. also i wonder do the players etc read any of this? does any of the criticism help ? would team selection or getting the right result save this irish team. if not as i suspect then a part break up of the current team .who is going to be left standing? gloomy maybe ott.at times like these come on ulster!
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Ireland boys just didn't answer the call today! It's been a poor performance in each of the games. Asa paddy livingin New Zealand - having toput up with All Black this and All Black that and Having seen Ireland almost beat the AB's last year - where has that team gone? can they please come to the party?
BTW - if by some miracle Ireland beats the Argies and with a bonus point then Ireland goes through
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I watched the game as a semi neutral - sister has lived in France for many years, but I have always cheered on fellow Celtic nations. In answer to John Kingsbury, Ireland play as the Island of Ireland, not as the political units of Republic of Ireland or as Northern Ireland. Long may they do so - your comment is invalid. I agree though that the ITV commentators are not up to ´óÏó´«Ã½ standards. The men in the studio have more interesting comments to make, Pienaar and Quinell being the best in my view.
I thought the referee had a pretty good game, even handed and the Irish team were not unfairly penalised. I wish he had been officiating in Cardiff earlier this year, where Ireland seemed to have had the referee on their side and the correct scoreline would not have given them an exaggerated view of their performance and abilities. Good luck to the Irish against the Argentinians - and may the best team win!
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This the the best Ireland team ever - fact. It is a great shame they have not won anything but they still have time if they stop the rot now.
I can see echoes of when the Hastings era Scotland team were at the top of their downslope: infighting, players all looking around for someone to blame instead of taking things on themselves, shoe-in players being left out of the side in desparation, the coach has just signed a contract extension...and it's the same players who 2 years ago were heroes.
All great sides are capable of a bad couple of games but Ireland are stuck in a rut now, if you look back through the warm ups as well.
You absolutely need to change the captain. O'Driscoll is a great player but as captain he needs to be able to keep his team pulling together through the good times and the bad - that's the true test of a leader. He has always struck me as far too arrogant (something which makes him the great player he is) to be a great leader. When a great team is looking lost and disillusioned you need to look at the captaincy.
There's no way Ireland are staying in the tournament now. They have to beat a side deservedly ranked as one of the best in the world by a very big score - something probably only the All Blacks would have a chance of. If you are still talking about getting to the 1/4s you are just setting yourselves up for a onather dent of confidence.
What they need is confidence for these great players for the near term future. Pick the same team and try and give them a clean slate, and remind them why 2 years ago they were a top 4 side, and that they are all still great players. Go out to beat Argentina which is a realistic goal, and build from there. You won't get another crop of players like this for a few years so you'd better make the most of them.
Don't do what Scotland did. Next thing you know O'Sullivan will be forced out, Matt Williams will be your coach and you'll have Brendan Laney at 13 instead of BOD. Uh Oh.
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"Pick the same team"
Isn't that a large part of why we're in the rut that we're in?
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15. Hickie
14. Horgan
13. O'Driscoll
12. Trimble
11. Carney
10. Murphy G
09. Reddan
1. S Best
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Kelly
5. O'Connell
6. N Best Capt
7. O'Callaghan
8. Jennings
Bench
R Best, Horan, Ferris,
Heaslip, Skinner, O' Gara,
Dempsey
Not a team for next year but for next week, and GM would have plenty of cover in case of any missed tackles. At least we would have imagination at half back - none presently! The bench would look better too, bring most of them on at 50-60 minutes because Argentina will surely ring the changes then.
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To put systematically Ireland and France face to face in the competitions is an aberration. it looks like the IRB decided that the role of the French was to break the dream of the Irish people. The foreign players take advantage of the NH to destroy us better and they take ours money of supporters ( argentina ). At least, you Irish had the gaelic Football. But us, nothing, we have never managed to codify the soule. I wanted to see a big team of France and a big team of Ireland, instead of all the NH is weak and unrecognizable. How can players as BOD and O Gara lose their level? I believe that the pressure is too strong, the players of the South H have to lose nothing and those of the North H lose everything.
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i've got to say i was absolutely gutted last night, yet again this irish team has built my hopes up only to see them crash and burn! best team that ireland have ever produced? more like the best bunch of chokers ireland have ever produced!! i think eos should do the decent thing and resign (or at least im willing to put forward some money to pay him off) and the team to issue a public apology to the hundreds of irish fans who have spent good hard earned money only to watch these bunch of amateurs!!
i feel so much better now
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O'Callaghan at 7? Admittedly David Wallace isn't linking with the backs at all, but then again neither are the backs (they kept running as individuals and were easily snaffled by the French last night); but surely you jest?
Heaslip and Jennings aren't even in the squad.
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was a very disappointed game on irelands part from start to finish
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Absolutely ridiculous lineup .. However, I do agree with bringing in Carney and Murphy though.
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O'Sullivan should do the honorable thing and resign. He is now a seriously malign influence on this group of players. How the IRFU could see fit to grant him a new contract before the WC is incompetence of galactic proportions. O'Sullivan's attempt to deflect attention away from his and the teams ineptitude by slagging off the referee lacks class. In the name of God just go!
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O'Sullivan should do the honorable thing and resign. He is now a seriously malign influence on this group of players. How the IRFU could see fit to grant him a new contract before the WC is incompetence of galactic proportions. O'Sullivan's attempt to deflect attention away from his and the teams ineptitude by slagging off the referee lacks class. In the name of God just go!
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I thought Reddan had a decent debut given the ball he had to work with and he should be kept on for Argentina. O'Gara has been poor all tournament. Gutted about the result......
Back Row and 2nd Row have been gutless
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sullivan has to go for broke . agree with murphy at outhalf . we need as many try scoring backs on team . my team for pumas:
15 Dempsey
14 Carney
13 o Driscoll
12 Horgan
11 Hickey
10 Murphy
9 Reddan
8 Wallace
7 Best
6 Quinlan
5 O kelly
4 0 connell
3 Hayes
2.Flannery
1.Horan
Subs ( crucial)
16.sheahan
17.Stringer
18.O gara
19. best
20.Leamy
21.o callaghan
22.Duffy
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not sure why only Trimble and Rddan rate 4s. O'Gara and Horgan were useless. both should be dropped along with Leamy or Wallace and O'Callaghan. Of the Munster players the only one to perform was Hayes and he will probably retire. given that they provide they provide the bulk of Ireland's team, God help Munster in the Heineken's cup for the next season.
someone please explain to O'Sullivan that sending on replacementrs in the last ten minutes serves no purpose - we should as everyone else make the changes with at least 20 minutesd to gos so that the replacements have time to make an impact. those not performing should be removed and something else attempted when chasing the game
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I hope argentina beat the irish because after this display the irish do not deserve to go forward into the quarters.
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Were never at the races. and hav'nt been for some time now. about time i think that eddie was moved out of the picture and give the irish team a refreshing new start!
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Aye, EOS should go...but did you see his comments on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ website today?
"Onwards and upwards"..." we can score five tries against Argentina."
Is the man truly delusional?
We couldn't score five tries against Namibia or Georgia...and we couldn't even manage one against the France.
Oh well, it is said the irish are a nation of dreamers...EOS seems to be confirming that. Sadly, it is a nightmare for the rest of us.
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Ratings are spot on. No passion, fight or backbone. I think it stems from the mangement though. Its going to take a minor miracle now to qualify.
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It's time to put the feet on the ground!!
This is is THE REAL competition and we have showed we're not up to it.
Media (specially Irish media) have pumped a bubble that never had really solid basis. Oh yes! a couple of matches against teams being tested, at rust stages or weak moments.....
Even the 6N that used to (sort of) stand of the world top level competition (usally representing at least 4 of the top world squads) is not any ore that. Now its the 6N competition under the top 4, not even winning that u can say your'e on your way to einning the RWC....
I know that being a fan has a part of irrational behaviour, but let not push it....Does anyone really think that we will put 4 tries on the Argies.....COME ON!!!!
Look at the stats. NO ONE has been able to sink a single ball in their in-goal!!!!!!!!!! These not so long ago used to be amateurs, still hold the pride, guts and go to every tackle as if their family's life depended on it. Up to now the only way to put points on them has been at long distance through their posts. And suddenly we're going to sink 4!!!!! tries agianst them......
And if we do so, it will be because we will be playing wrecklessly (maybe we need some of that), but that will mean that they will come into our ingoal too, so forget the point difference, we're out anyway. I would prefer this even though. Its time to show some bloody guts and pride for the jersey!!!
1 more humble request: STOP saying this is probably the best team in Irish history. The only thing the world is reading of that is that Irish Rugby History must be very sad.........And I don't believe that at all.
PRIDE & JOY: How can we vaccinate our boys with that?? If not we're way off the progress road.
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A truly awful performance from an Irish team that looks overtrained and underprepared; clearly a management problem as the great team of 18 months ago doesn't lose all its class just like that. France merely had to be adequate and Michelak's dainty kick for Clerc aside, they were merely that. All in all a pretty woeful game of rugby. Even the stamping seemed to lack real commitment.
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Disgraceful Ireland are back.
It all comes down to professionalism, of which we displayed none...we lose every important line-out, scrum or subsequent play. Terrible passing which was high and caught each player at a standstill so our running play amounted to nothing. Bad and boring kicking play which the French were more than prepared for. We never took any opportunities and gave away too many. The discipline was shocking, giving so many penalties. These morons showed absolutely no national pride. It's terrbile for the fans who paid the money to go and watch a team of losers who are capable of much better but who obviously lack any respect for their supporters or themselves.
The truly sad thing is that Ireland could, if they truly wanted to, beat Argentina sufficiently enough to progress in this tournament, but the players probably won't be too bothered now.
The opposition always seem to be more professional than our idiots. If I did my job as badly as the players have been doing theirs of late, I would be sacked long ago.
Earlier on in this tournament a journalist was slated on this ´óÏó´«Ã½ Blog for saying how great the Irish fans were for drinking. The Irish bloggers wanted to be known for thier sporting achievements as opposed to their alcoholic ones, but he was right. So far in this tournament the only good thing has been the fans.
In order to beat Argentina we must get professional, and we must: learn how to run the ball, learn how to support the runners, learn how to kick effectively for touch, learn how to throw the ball into a lineout, learn how to win our own scrum, and learn how to drive forward like their lives depend on it.
Are they up for the challenge of drubbing Argentina? I believe so. But so must they and so must the fans for it to work. With the right morale Ireland could actually win the world cup but as long as nobody believes it, we'll never even get close.
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I think your rating's a bit harsh on Reddan. He played well in my opinion.
My team for the next match would look like this -
1. M. Horan
2. J. Flannery
3. J. Hayes
4. P. O'Connell
5. M. O'Kelly
6. S. Easterby
7. D. Wallace
8. N. Best
9. E. Reddan
10. P. Wallace
11. B. Carney
12. A. Trimble
13. B. O'Driscoll
14. S. Horgan/G. D'Arcy
15. G. Dempsey
16. R. Best
17. S. Best
18. D. O'Callaghan
19. D. Leamy
20. P. Stringer/I.Boss
21. R. O'Gara
22. G. Murphy/G. D'Arcy/S. Horgan
Pity that we have no good props to come in and Simon Ferris is overrated and crap. We have no other number 8 really, Best might be good there but maybe not. O'Gara isn't on form, I don't know if this is the crap in his personal life or whatever, but he's not switched on. Brian Carney deserves a shot, he's a very good player. Strong, fast, agile, he could be effective against the Argies. D'Arcy isn't really on form but Trimble could do very well back in centre. D'Arcy could do well on the wing too, not too sure. They've all played crap so far.
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I was there too, as I was in Bordeaux. You are way too generous with your scores. O'Gara, Leamy, Trimble - all threes in my book, they were all very poor in their respective areas of competence. Reddan played well and his distribution was much better than Stringer's. They were a disgrace and it was unfair of them to build up the fans' hope during the week. They do not deserve any support for the Argentina game (I gave them 60 minutes of roaring support last night but they didn't deserve it) - I will be there but will cheer on the Pumas: they finally deserve a semi-final, unlike us.
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I disagree with plenty of opinions out there - people complain about Best at hooker - where was Flannery - huffing and puffing and thats what he did - Sheahen when he got a chance was useless. Reddan played well - a few mistakes but thats what happens when you get EOS never giving anyone a chance even from the bench until the last 2 mins. Trimble followed his man and Reddan.Trimble advised the back row to cover the space - what did they do - stand and look as they did for most of the match Easterby included who prob had his best game of the tournament but gave away so many needless penalties. Where are the impact guys - Carney, Murphy, Neil Best, Ferris, Wallace - guys who can change a game who play for the shirt, have agression and falir. Too many of the team rest on their laurels and what they have done (which is not much - lets be honest?.
My team would be
15 Murphy
14 Carney
13 O'Driscoll
12 D'Arcy
11 Hickie
10 Paddy Wallace
9 Reddan
8 Ferris
7 Neil Best
6 Quinlan
5 O'Kelly
4 O'Connell
3 Hayes
2 Rory Best
1 Young
Bench
16 Flannery
17 O'Callaghan
18 Simon Best
19 David Wallace
20 O'Gara
21 Trimble
22 Boss
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First, I thought Speranza at comment 101, got it absolutely right. His assessment of last night's awful performance is very much in line with my own.
Second, I recognise that Trimble had a poor game, and also that Easterby was one of Ireland's better players. But that said, (and even if I am an Ulster supporter), don't blame Trimble entirely (eg comment 52) for the first French Try. As Nigel Carr (another Ulsterman!)demonstrated with the slomo on UTV after the match, it was a planned move for Trimble to come off his wing at that scrum to put additional pressue on Michalak in the 10 channel. That is fine as long as there is communication to provide pre-planned cover on the wing. And sure enough, the slomo shows Trimble coming to the back of the scrum, telling Easterby that he was moving inside, and that Easterby needed to cover the vacated wing space. Easterby acknowledged the message, watched Trimble take up his position, and then turned round to see the vacated wing position. In the event, Michalak kicked sublimely down the wing, and Easterby made no attempt to cover the space.
Third, before we amateur selectors go picking the team against the Pumas, surely it is important to start by deciding the proposed game tactics (in short supply on the evidence to date). Like most other international teams,Ireland do not have a good record in taking on the Pumas up front. And kicking the ball behind the opposition, in the three matches to date, has just been a recipe for giving away possession. So the temptation must be to play an expansive game and spread the Pumas wide. Our famed back line of 2006 would have had the capacity to do that, but the present selection clearly does not. So I say shake up the back line,bring in new faces, and give them orders to run the ball through the hands and take the Pumas out wide. On this basis, I would (as Speranza says) drop O'Gara, and replace him with Paddy Wallace. I would leave the solid Girvan Dempsey at full back, and BOD as Captain, but my three quarter line would be Carney, Trimble, O'Driscoll and Murphy. They are untried as a unit, but that should at least get the Pumas thinking. Can they be any worse than the selection to date? The other main change should be in the back row, where only Easterby deserves another chance. Replace Leamy and D.Wallace with Quinlan and N Best, and then we might just spring a few surprises. But will EOS take such gambles? Don't be silly!
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Post 144...
Francois Piennar gave the same analysis of Trimble's play...
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Nice ideas, Dave, but I think you need to look at your front five as well; with the notable exception of Hayes, they were well beaten by France. I would like to know, though, wtf has Geordan Murphy done? The man is a class player, but EOS doesn't even put him on the bench? You need a new coach. O'Sullivan is demonstrating that he's no better than Andy Robinson.
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Pathetic display by a pathetic and unworthy team. Before the World Cup there was a lot of talk about the Irish Renaissance and the Irish Surge. Yeah right. This team went into France with high expectations and they went in ranked as one of the best teams in the world. Looks like they will be hitch-hiking home... a national embarrasment...
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Following O'Gara's comment today, "I can't see us doing it") he cannot be in the 22. Go with Murphy at 10, we have nothing to lose. Play Carney and Hickie on the wing, Reddan scrum half. Just go for it.
Neil Best must play, although Easterby was better last night (try excluded).
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Yeah Ireland played rubbish, but what is this talk of changing the side. This is pretty much the same team that came within a hair's breadth of winning the grandslam this year. The team just haven't turned up, and their confidence couldn't be lower. Poor performances in key areas don't help, but essentially they look like a team that are still in pre-season.
All the fluidity from the back row have gone. I honestly think that Leamy was deserving of his starting position, but looks like he's way out of form. It looks to me that Neil Best would have a better time their, and could at least put Ireland on the front foot, with his powerful runs. It's a shame though, as Leamy and Wallace have done so much for Ireland at the break down over the last two years.
Lineout ball was poor, especially seeing as the hooker was flannery, the guy who Wood thinks is the best thrower in the world. I dawned on me that Ireland thought they could bully Chabal at the lineout, and when he took the first lineout of the game, their whole game disintergrated.
My guess is that Ireland need to work phases against Argentina, keeping the ball away from the likes of Hernandez, and shift the defensive line about until gaps appear. As unlikely as it may be, the Irish are still in with a chance, and should go with some continuity. In my mind, Dempsey should edge out Murphy at full-back, because of the amount of pressure the Argentinians can exert on that area. Stringer should probably be the first choice to counter the wiley Pichot, with Reddan/Boss coming on at 60 to exploit gaps.
In the more likely senario that they lose, then it should be back to the drawing board for the next RWC. In my opinion that means ditching Stringer and O'Gara.
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I believe as a team this squad of players has peaked too many believe that loyality to EOS keep them in the team and therefore do not need to try.RWC 2007 for Ireland is a non event and in this last game against the Argies forget the game plan and play for pride. Start now for RWC 2011 and start to re - build again use the Next 6N and move on from there we are fast losing our reputation in world rugby and need to change, EOS is maybe that man but M Bradley has the potential to be a great asset to Irish rugby get him in
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Not only does the team need a complete overhaul but if we fail to beat Argentina the IRFU should revoke EOS's contract.
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Up Easterby
Down horgan flannery trimble leamy
Down though good anyway o gara d arcy o driscoll o connel wallace
with your o up please beat argentina
a french with more hope on ireland than (it appears) irish
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6 months ago a young London-Irish half back came on and set up two try’s for England giving them a surprise victory against France. Last night after 50 minutes you looked at the Irish bench and there was nothing. What would we have given for a creative player like Geraghty who has the spark and ability to change the game when O'Gara was clearing lacking in confidence? The tragedy is that Shane could have been playing for Ireland last night had the IRFU recognized his talent and aggressively recruited him before England got there instead. His brother (Coventry) has declared for Ireland so this is not a remote possibility.
Believe it or not there are some great Irish rugby players playing in the UK. Some are first generation players - Jennings, Murphy, Cullen - and some are second generation players - Kennedy, Geraghty, Roche. The IRFU should take some credit for strengthening the provinces but they have failed to use the resources across the Channel.
I was at the game last night. It was a privilege to be in a stadium where it felt like the Irish fans outnumbered the French by 3-1. The atmosphere was incredible. Well done to all who went bar the 16 players and the Manager and his cohorts who let us down. Please learn from the mistakes of this competition and bring in some key outsiders (a Southern Hemisphere coach to shake up the tedious cliques would be a good start) and don't allow a small proud country like ours to let potential gems like Kennedy and Geraghty to slip through our fingers in the future.
Until then we hope for a miracle against the Argentineans.
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The ratings are generally accurate, if a little flattering, especially to O'Gara. Argentina have showed skill, class, strengrh, composure and passions when required. This Irish side have shown none of these qualities. Argentina will smash the Irish out of the World Cup and the tournament will be better for it so we can stop listening to the endless drivel aboiut why Ireland have "underperformed". They haven't. They are proving that they are a small nation with ordinary players who shone for a few years but are on the wain again. I hope the IRB stop all this talk of reducing the next RWC to 16 teams, the small nations like Portugal, Japan and Tonga have made it fun - a lot more fun than an unfocussed and dreary Irish team. In any case, if the next tournament is cut to 16 teams the Irish mignt find themselves watching it at home on tv, as there's no guarantee which minnow gets through!
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Thought Reddan was the star. O gara was dire but through a serious lack of managerial vision and planning we have no other option. Hard to believe this is the same team that had zero turnovers in two tests against the all blacks recently. Looks like we could be heading the same way as the soccer team..........
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ROG and Darcy awful, your line out is disintegrating.
POC is back to his lions form eg awful, get best in the back row to give you a lift, horan and hayes will get smashed to bits by this pumas front row
good luck ireland
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I have supported the Irish rugby team since the days of Keane and Duggan, and through years of passion and battling defeat. Watching fantstic players, Matthews, Dean, Mullin, Geoghan, Orr, Popplewell,Clohessey and in later years Woods and in Paris all those years ago, O Driscoll. I am not Irish but gave Ireland my support because it always looked to me as if they cared about their shirts and their country and each other . It is sad to give up on anything that has meant a lot to you but until a new dawn finally arrives the current crop are not in the same league as those mentioned above or those who stood beside them. Even in their own darker days useless Scots and welsh sides at least looked as if they cared and had enough pride not to look intimidated ( Easterby excepted from last night)Blame O sullivan , balme professionalsim but Ireland used to mean excitement and heroic defiance. I know what I wnat to see on Sunday, but also know I won't. It's been a great 30 years or so, but it's just about over........
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If you bought a case of French wine and the first three bottles turned out to be vinegar would you expect the fourth bottle to be the nicest wine you have tasted? No, well O'Sullivan would!
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Another woeful performance. This has been coming. OK we beat boks and wallabies in november, albeit 2 underperforming sides, then won the triple crown for a 3rd time against poor opposition. When you look at it, we have watched steady eddie turn a really good young team, developed by Warren Gatland, into an aged, tired unit, reliant on a few key men and no depth. And he's been given 4 years to rectify it. Crap. We should have someone at the helm who is interested in developing Irish rugby and not on winning each game as it comes.
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Sylvain, 104, merci beaucoup et pour La France, bonne chance aussi.
Ireland will need all the luck going to beat Argentina with 4 tries and by more than 7 points!!
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GREAT TO SEE IRELAND GET A STUFFING. a dream come true. pack your bags boys your going home. chop chop!
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I'm french and reading all these postsmake me feel sad. I believe I would react the same if france had lost that game. Just like when they did lose their opening game.
I'm sad because I still believe in Ireland. I jut can't imagine a good team turning that bad in just a few weeks. All Ireland need is to play their rugby with the guts and passion they've always demonstrated during the past 5 years. There is still a fair chance that you beat Argentina. I don't think they can score 4 tries but they can win. True it would also serve us well but at least the NH rugby would show some recovered dignity and brillancy. Ireland, please, give us a good game and win this one. If you've got enough pride left.
Go Ireland next sunday.
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"...a really good young team, developed by Warren Gatland..."
I keep having to point this out. Am I the only one who remembers a resigned-looking Warren Gatland presiding over an awful Ireland team? We were all calling for his head, he brought in a group of young players, and they happened to turn the team around and we beat Scotland (and then France) for the first time in a couple of decades.
It wasn't a stroke of genius but rather a last act of desperation; Gatland had as much to do with developing this team as Eddie has in developing new talent since he took over (i.e. precious little).
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To all the Irish fans, and the French that hope someone will do for them what they have not been able to do (beat Argentina):
Ireland getting bonus points for scoring 4 tries against Argentina?
Come on, get real!!! Argentina has the best defense in the tournament so far, no tries allowed and lowest points against. Ireland, England and Italy scored the lowest of the top 10 nations, 7 tries in 3 games.
Starting by EOS, you are in drugs if you sincerely think of this.
I'd say a more realistic goal is to think on getting a bonus point for losing by less than 8 points.
I am from Argentina and can't be 100% objective, but after browing at the comments, I hail you Irish fans because you show commitment and passion, things that your team is lacking at the moment.
The best thing that could happen to Ireland next Sunday, is to get crushed so the rebuilding process starts ASAP. Bonne chance!
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I am sick after the performance, just because I suffered From hope. Anyway, Trimble did very badly both tries were scored on his side and he was very naive, what was he thinking when he tried to charge down Michalak with O'Gara. His job was to prevent his oppenent number scoring and he had a shocker and dempsey should not be blamed for the second as Trimble should have been there marking his man not running back like a headless chicken. Lets stop talking fire in the pot rubbish, bring in Murphy(erratic but we need to score) Carney or hickie - I thought Reddan was good. Lets go for it I am so depressed I would welcome a full assault on Argentina, recognising we need to spend the first 20 ,minutes bullying them if our forwards are up for it.
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To rate O'Gara above Reddan makes me question whether you actually watched the game? I was at the game and sitting in the end Ireland were playing towards in the first half. Whilst being at the game reduces some of what you can see, it increases other elements. I have NEVER seen some screw so many kicks -O'gara was duck-hooking almost every kick outrageously. Most kicks move in the air to a degree - but not like this. Therefore he had utterly no confidence of making a clean strike or in where the ball would end up. It does beg the question then as to why he kicked so much ball....
I thought Reddan had a really decent game under the circumstances - being parachuted in like that almost out of nowhere. I don't see how or where he looked nervous, and I didn't see many instances of him being caught in possession - only one in the first half that I could see which was caused by the forwards failure to secure the ball. I though his pass was accurate and really quite zippy. To say he lacked the speed of stringers pass is surely to say that my car lacks the blistering acceleration of a 1 litre fiesta!! What I liked about Reddan over Boss and Stringer is that he doesn't have the stupid wind up to his pass. With Stringer he plants his foot showing you exactly where he is aiming, then picks up the ball, winds back the arms, then passes - no wonder the 3/4s have no space or time to move and no wonder there are some interceptions!
POC - should not be 5 - he is supposedly one of the best locks in the world - where was the aggression?
DOC - 2 out of 10 - totally absent.
I'm now finding it hard not to cheer on the Argies on Sunday as I'm worried about us snatching a win and prolonging O'Sullivan's tenure.
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I am a little unsure what would be the best result for Ireland against Argentina. Don't get me wrong, I am an avid Irish supporter and would love to see them really running round the Argies (let's be honest, the idea of trying to take them on and 'bully them up front for the first 20 minutes' as one comment says above is unrealistic). On the other hand though, it is clear this team/management needs a bit of a strong rethink.....
1. I am sick of EOS refusing to bring on 'impact' subs until the last four minutes of the game. If a team is not matching the opposition after the half time talk and another ten mintues play, it is not going to materialise.
2. With no real competition for places, there appears to be a great deal of complacency. The units look stale and far too predictable for any other team in the world cup - look at how two supposed minnows knew exactly how to slow down the Ireland game and maintain possession against us as well. I think the complacency is nowhere more evident than in ROG. The man is a shocker and verging on a disgrace. He thought he was contending fot the second best out-half in the game. What a joke! But there really isn't any viable replacement. P Wallace is not a bad player but I think perhaps it is too late for him to ever develop into a world class out-half (this pains me greatly as I am indeed an Ulster supporter). Anyone heard of a chap called Ian Humphreys - apparently not bad at all and I hope to God he can develop into half the player his brother was and maybe put pressure on ROG/EOS to change and/or improve things.
3. My main point though is that if Ireland do somehow manage to scrape through or indeed win but not proceed the criticism of the the team and management will be a little muted. Whereas if they go out of the pool stage then there will be a much greater call for tactics/players/management to change and improve. There is no doubt this team has played well below par - we don't really seem to know why that is but i have a good feeling it be a little more apparent once a few familiar faces were left out in the cold.
On a separate note I thought Reddan gave a decent performance considering the circumstances. I would have him and Boss as my choices against Argentina and leave Stringer out of it altogether again. Again though, if whoever starts isn;t doing a stirling job by 50 minutes, change them then - not at 75!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, I am more than a little worried about the future of the Northern Hemisphere teams as a whole. Has anyone else noticed the almighty gap in talent,style,team work, work rate etc etc between us and the Tri Nations teams. Surely it can't be that as soon as England go a bit rubbish we all take a turn for the worse ?!?!?!?!
Referring back to my own tagline/name, as a young bald man once sang 'I believe in miracles' and will be praying that our Ireland boys will show what they can do - my faith is still present (if more than a little weakened).
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Eddie O'Sullivan (he who wears what appears to be a car salesmans suit and a coiffed-up hairdo)should resign. The team performance against France was pathetic and we are easily the worst team in the competition. There are too many positions where we simply dont' have any good players-even dare I say Brian O'Driscoll. If anything BOD has been terrible and has never looked like the world class player he has been made out to be.
Oh, and Eddie, what is really disappointing is that you resort to blaming the referee. Please dont' embarrass us all by your petulant remarks. We were crap!
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