Chilled out Pumas play it cool (157)
- 3 Oct 07, 01:17 AM
Paris - Argentina are getting ready for the biggest game in their history, but you never would have guessed.
In the Parisian suburb of Enghien-les-Bains, the Argentine management team held their first press briefing since reaching the quarter-finals with the last Sunday.
And boy, were they relaxed. Which is just as well really, considering that Argentina鈥檚 impressive exploits in France have gripped a normally football-mad nation.
Not only was their win over Ireland splashed over the front pages, but the epic 鈥榯his weekend has had its kick-off time moved so as not to clash with television coverage of the upcoming last-eight clash with .
Head coach Marcelo Loffreda, the former civil engineer who is after the World Cup finishes, is acutely aware of the situation back home but was keen to stress that his players must not get sidetracked.
鈥淲e are aware of the support but we have to focus on what we are doing,鈥 he said. 鈥淲e know there are lot of people that are very happy with our team, maybe much more than usual.
鈥淢any people from different sports are now looking at the rugby and that is a big coup for us. That will only get bigger if we get through and but we know we must not use up our energy thinking about it.鈥
You would have excused Argentina鈥檚 players if they had celebrated long into the night after making the quarters but according to officials, the party was not as wild as you might have thought.
Maybe they are fatigued, they have been away from home since 13 August and have just survived the 鈥榩ool of death鈥, but with Scotland lying between them and a first-ever semi-final, the more likely reason is that they feel that their work in France is not yet done.
Scotland failed to set the world alight in their pool and reached the last eight with the uninspiring over an equally unadventurous Italy while Argentina on the other hand, as well as Ireland and go into the game on the back of five straight wins against the Scots.
They are widely seen as favourites for Sunday's game at the Stade de France but just don't tell Loffreda.
鈥淲e do not think that,鈥 he said. 鈥淔or us, we are the underdogs.鈥
The comment raised a smile with the assembled press corps, with one reporter responding: 鈥淭hat鈥檚 what Scotland are saying.鈥
A laughing Loffreda took the joke before highlighting the seriousness of keeping his charges in the right frame of mind.
鈥淭he important thing is the thoughts of the players and what they believe,鈥 he said. 鈥淚t is not so much about the strategy, we know the tactics, but our main challenge is to put the players in a good way of thinking and to make sure they are mentally tough.
鈥淲e are not thinking about the semi-final. We are only thinking about Scotland. The players do not need to think about the expectation, the fans or the situation.
鈥淭he game is the thing that will keep the players calm.鈥
This match will also be about the kicking. With Scotland's Chris Paterson slotting over penalties and conversions at will, 鈥渄iscipline鈥 is firmly at the front of Loffreda鈥檚 mind.
In fact he mentioned the word eight times in the six-minute chat he had with us English-speaking journos before revealing he was disappointed with his side's penalty count against Ireland.
"We were penalised eight times and our standard is not more than five," he said.
And that was that. After fulfilling his obligations with the Argentine media, a smiling Loffreda was ushered back to the serene lakeside hotel to pack his bags ready for his squad's change of location.
From there he will plot Scotland's downfall in a game that will definitely not be as laid-back.
Mark Orlovac is a 大象传媒 Sport journalist based in London. He will be based in Paris for the knockout stages of the Rugby World Cup.
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I want to say a massive good luck to the Pumas! They go to show that organisation mixed with a great hunger and passion (something the England boys can be accused of lacking) can go a long way in the game of Rugby. They certainly deserve to make it to the semis and even then I will still be rooting for them to go further.
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All the best to Los Pumas.
As an irish fan, happy to accept that we were outplayed by a passionate team with a firm goal in mind; to tell the world of rugby that they exist and they are a major force, to come in as no-one and end up as No4 in the World is amazing in itself, but to top the pool of death and show real potential to go on and win the tournmament is outstanding. Good luck to Gus Pichot and the boys. They certainly have it in the locker to prevent the scots from even scoring, and enough to beat SA for a final place with NZ. Hopefully they will be part of the 6Ns before long. I'd rather have that. Otherwise if they join SANZAR, they will improve further and stuff us all everytime. Can't have that ha ha! Best of luck!
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I'll second that sentiment. As an Irish man I will be shouting for Argentina to beat Scotland. I think we can all learn something from the pride and passion they play with. It's something that has been missing from a lot of the bigger (northern hemisphere) teams displays at this world cup. An excellent team to watch and I hope they go all the way. Argentina, ab煤!
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Good luck to the Argies from a die-hard Irish fan. All the skill and composure is there to take the Scots. And furthermore, if they can match SA up front I hope a final awaits them.
Get these guys into an annual tournament, irrespective of their remaining results in this WC.
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I was fortunate enough to be in Buenos Aires in 2003 to see the Pumas beat France twice and I am delighted to read of the increased focus back home on this superb team. They are a real credit to both the sport and their country, showing a verve and passion unmatched by many of the so-called 'bigger' nations. Scotland will be exposed as the great over-achievers of this tournament and I hope that Argentina's success leads to a further growth in the strength and popularity of Latin rugby. Vamos los Pumas!
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surely they deserve to be included in the tri-four nations to be....regards
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Looks like they've already had some good luck.
Judging by his performance in the Italy game, with Kaplan as the TMO (video ref), probably Scotland will push a maul over the line, Jutge will go for the video ref to ask if a try can be awarded, and Kaplan will recommend sin-binning Sean Lamont on the grounds of a dodgy hairstyle and give a penalty to Argentina.
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As a scot I would love to think that we have something (anything please) up our sleeves to try to compete with the Pumas. Am I deluding myself?! Does anyone think we have a game in us to go for the semis?
So far we have done badly. Not particularly ezcelled but got the job done when it mattered. 2 good wins to begin with, a write-off against NZ (FH is looking like an astute coach now) and a fairly awful game against Italy (was the rain to blame?) I think we have punched exactly our weight so far. Is there anything left in the tank?
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ARGENTINA included in 2009 7 nations tournament.
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As a Scottish man please allow me to differ with nos. 1 and 2! ;-) Scotland are most certainly the underdogs, however much clever Mr. Loffreda tries to talk us up! But we are well-coached by Frank Hadden and his assistants, well-led by Jason White and not lacking in rugby nouse. I doubt we will just kick the ball to Argentina and let them return the ball into our half with huge touch-finders, as the Irish did. I am quietly confident that our boys can do the job for which as professionals they are paid and have been selected.
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Mr. Loffreda is a very clever man and he is talking up Scotland as hard as he can. But he has such brilliant players that we Scots are definitely the underdogs - and as the song goes, that's the way - ah ha - we like it!! ;-)
But Scotland is well-coached and well-led, and we are going to give it a damn good lash!!
COME ON SCOTLAND!!
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Good luck to the Argies from a die-hard Irish fan. All the skill and composure is there to take the Scots. And furthermore, if they can match SA up front I hope a final awaits them.
Get these guys into an annual tournament, irrespective of their remaining results in this WC.
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2 & 3 : "To come in as no one & end up as No4 in the world is amazing enough" - ?! They were number 5 in the world before the tournament started! They've taught everyone a lesson that's toured there for the last two decades, and have most of their players playing at top European clubs. Do your homework... And what happened to a wee bit of celtic solidarity? I was desperate for Ireland to get through, even though they barely deserved to, having messed it up in the previous games. Anyway, it's all by the by because Jason White's gonna eat Hernandez & Pichot for breakfast!!!!!
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Mr. Loffreda is a very clever man and he is talking up Scotland as hard as he can. But he has such brilliant players that we Scots are definitely the underdogs - and as the song goes, that's the way - ah ha - we like it!! ;-)
But Scotland is well-coached and well-led, and we are going to give it a damn good lash!!
COME ON SCOTLAND!!
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Its been said before that the argentinians bring passion and pride to every game which is great to watch and has always stood them in good stead but what they now also seem to have is tactical awareness and vastly improved skill levels, given this if they can keep their heads and keep playing the same way a place in the final is certainly not beyond them
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from a very disapointed Irish fan - best of luck to the Pumas - great to see the passionate approach combined with precision paying dividends - especially from a team that has bee left out in international limbo.
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Re Comment 2:
"to come in as no-one and end up as No4 in the World is amazing in itself"
These are prime examples of the words of somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the sport and has probably taken up watching it in the last couple of weeks.
Sad to say, but Argentina were always gonna beat Ireland. We had a competition in work to predict the results of each of the Ireland matches and total points scored, I predicted wins over georgia and namibia and losses to argentina and france with total 95 points.
I thought that was pretty much as the bookies would see it to be honest, and I'm waiting for the results now to see if anybody was more cynical in terms of points scored!
Fingers crossed I getsomething good out of this world cup!!
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Scotland can win, but we'll need to score tries. As the irish showed, quick ball and strong running can break down there defence. I'm crossing everything for a Scotland victory on Sunday!
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Mr. Loffreda is a very clever man and he is talking up Scotland as hard as he can. But he has such brilliant players that we Scots are definitely the underdogs - and as the song goes, that's the way - ah ha - we like it!! ;-)
But Scotland is well-coached and well-led, and we are going to give it a damn good lash!!
COME ON SCOTLAND!!
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As an Irish fan who's been irritated by (and responded to) ungracious comments by the tiny minority of my countrymen who felt it necessary to demean the Argentineans, I'll add my voice to the praise being heaped on this side.
Their improvement has been no surprise to any real rugby fan (especially since Lens '99) and their passion for the game reminds me of what my team used to be like.
Argentina does well exist, and the IRB had better get them (and the other "minnows"-come-good) into meaningful annual competition for the sake of the sport as a whole!
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As an overly optimistic Irish fan, I had my tickets for the QF at St Denis, and will be supporting Scitland there on Sunday rather than Ireland after their sad demise. The SCots will have one hell of a match ahead of them, because this Argentinian team are talented, fired up and play with flair and self belief. They have been a joy to watch in all of their matches, and their pack have it in them to take them all of the way.
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As Argentinian, I wish the best of luck to Scotland, always my favourite european team! I want to think that you have no chance, but I know you can beat us, cause you have courage and guts as much of the Pumas. Hope we can see a good rugby match, sing all the time and get all drunk together at the end. Is a pity only one will go. And sure, I hope are the Pumas!!!
Good luck Scotland, and a good game to all of us!
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Scotland can win, but we'll need to score tries. As the irish showed, quick ball and strong running can break down there defence. I'm crossing everything for a Scotland victory on Sunday!
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Well donme Argentina! With a little more funding and regular international compentition (the tri-nations and Super 14) they could win in 2011, though I doubt that they can beat the boks this time
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We are Scots, and like the Argentinian's a proud nation. We hope that if we do go down, we go down fighting.
We DO have something in the tank, and if we Scots can do it, then we beat England and France last year - why not Argentina now?
Jason White hasn't recovered for nothing!
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The pumas shouldnt play in the 6 nations let them play in the tri-nations. THe 8 nations is not good enough for los pumas.
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The Scottish team have achieved well considering their number 11 ranking at the start of this World Cup campaign. Argentina have been steadily climbing over the past few years.
Scotland has a slim chance but it is slim. They have played well but need to utilise their backs a bit more than they did against the Italians. the Italy game was always going to be close on recent form and it was.
It may not have been a game of great rugby but it was definately a thriller in that in could have gone either way right up until the final whistle.
For this coming game I foresee two possible outcomes a narrow Scottish victory against the odds or a runaway Argentinian romp.
I know in my heart which one I hope happen but my head does warn me to expect the latter.
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As a Scottish fan I have to say I'm more than a wee bit disappointed to see all the Irish comments cheering on the Pumas. Even though it would have given us a supposedly 'tougher' semi against the French (not the way Argentina are playing) I was cheering on the Irish last Sunday. It seems as if the majority of Irish fans would not be able to bear Scotland progressing further and beating the side that beat the Irish in the group stages. A case of sour grapes? I think so.
Come on Ireland, your boys will recover sooner than you think, start getting behind the Scots, the majority of whom would support you in the samer situation.
Scotland to squeeze it 21-18!
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The Scottish team have achieved well considering their number 11 ranking at the start of this World Cup campaign. Argentina have been steadily climbing over the past few years.
Scotland has a slim chance but it is slim. They have played well but need to utilise their backs a bit more than they did against the Italians. the Italy game was always going to be close on recent form and it was.
It may not have been a game of great rugby but it was definately a thriller in that in could have gone either way right up until the final whistle.
For this coming game I foresee two possible outcomes a narrow Scottish victory against the odds or a runaway Argentinian romp.
I know in my heart which one I hope happen but my head does warn me to expect the latter.
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With an Argentian mother and an English father, i am lucky enough to have two teams in the quarter-finals. The ideal situation would be for them both to meet in the final - I wonder what odds I could get for that result? Probably 100 to 1 on account of the other team being England! Best of luck to the Pumas.
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Credit Argentina.
Their success is great for world rugby. They play the simple kind of kicking game that Ireland used to play, scotland need to play, and England should have been playing from day 1 of this comp!
Plus, being a nation of footballers they know how to kick a ball properly! Not just toe-punt it like most the British rugger-buggers!
They have been knocking on the door for a while now and it was a travesty of the seedings that they were seeded below Scotland.
ARgie r clear faves but Scot have a decent chance - Ireland would probably have beaten them if they weren't going for the 4 tries...should be a great game!
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Why are people trying to shoe-horn more countries into the 6 nations? 6 near-consecutive weekends of international rugby every year as well as tours, The Lions, autumn internationals & the RWC - I'd have to move into the pub permanently & expect the divorce papers to be delivered there.
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A quick one (from an Englishman) to say all the best to Argentina: a great sporting country, clearly exploding with pride for their team's exploits. It's the only place I've ever been where hordes of kids spend their weekends chucking rugby balls around in parks, so different to the regimented, school-led, closed world of grass-roots rugby over here. Vamos Pumas!
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As a Scotland supporter, I have no illusions of how good the Pumas are.
Anyone who has watched their key players in the Heineken Cup, can only watch and admire. One of their greatest strengths is their half back pairing, certainly as good as any in the world.
I would like to see them included in a 7 Nations Championship, since the Tri-Nations seem unwilling to allow them to join (I wonder why?)
So good luck Pumas and if you do manage to beat us, them I hope you win the WC!
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Best of luck to Argentina from an Irish Supporter. We sat watching the match with a big group of teenagers who were absolutely mesmerised by Hernandez. Your total package of rugby makes it exciting for kids to watch whilst ours remained rudderless.
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Best of luck to Argentina from an Irish Supporter. We sat watching the match with a big group of teenagers who were absolutely mesmerised by Hernandez. Your total package of rugby makes it exciting for kids to watch whilst ours remained rudderless.
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As a Scotland supporter, I have no illusions of how good the Pumas are.
Anyone who has watched their key players in the Heineken Cup, can only watch and admire. One of their greatest strengths is their half back pairing, certainly as good as any in the world.
I would like to see them included in a 7 Nations Championship, since the Tri-Nations seem unwilling to allow them to join (I wonder why?)
So good luck Pumas and if you do manage to beat us, them I hope you win the WC!
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I'm also a diehard Irish fan but we could never beaten the Pumas with the game plan (or lack thereof) on Sunday.
My problem is that I don't know who to cheer for in the QF's. On one hand we have always had a close relationship with our celtic cousins but if they do beat the pumas that's as far as they'll go. I think Scotland鈥檚 natural game, which IMHO is to spoil oppositions ball, could prove to be effective against the pumas. It may not be attractive to watch but the object of rugby (and any sport) is to win.
If Argentina succeed I would love to see them make the final and who knows what will happen there.
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As a Scotland supporter, I have no illusions of how good the Pumas are.
Anyone who has watched their key players in the Heineken Cup, can only watch and admire. One of their greatest strengths is their half back pairing, certainly as good as any in the world.
I would like to see them included in a 7 Nations Championship, since the Tri-Nations seem unwilling to allow them to join (I wonder why?)
So good luck Pumas and if you do manage to beat us, them I hope you win the WC!
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As a Scotland fan i'd give us a 30% chance of winning on current form but if our back row (the only area where we're stronger than them) really gets firing it might even up a tiny bit more.
All i can say is "don't try for me, argentina"
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I'm a Scotsman living in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and the difference in the place since the victory over Ireland has been incredible. To underline the significance of football accomodating rugby: when the Pumas beat France, if you stopped someone on the street they'd struggle to name more than 3 Pumas (and that's counting Contepomi twice), but they could name the entire Argentina Sub-20 footbal squad. Boca winning a throw in would get a bigger cheers than the Pumas winning against France. At the moment you can't move for posters of el Mago, Felipe, Agustin, nor kids mimicking the constantly running adverts on ESPN. It's quality.
I hope we front up against the Pumas and play some rugby that we were too scared to play against Italy, but am not expecting a win. If we can, somehow, keep it tight and it comes down Paterson v Contepomi (who, they say, hates kicking for goal) then we might just sneak it, but it would be the biggest upset yet of the world cup.
But it's a world cup where the minnows have caused a stir, isn't it?
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'They go to show that organisation mixed with a great hunger and passion (something the England boys can be accused of lacking)'
Don't agree. The England team have shown a huge amount of hunger, passion and not least character in the way they reacted to the defeat against South Africa. As far as to say that they have an outside chance against Australia. If they can do a miracle and reach the semi-final then they can go home with their heads held very high.
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As a Scot, I'd like to thank all the Irish fans backing Argentina. Very gracious of you to pour all that bile, bad luck stories, misplaced egomania and petulance towards Argentina. Scotland, and all the other 6N teams, look forward to seeing you lot in 2008.
As for Argentina, they've been fantastic, and their fans have probably been the best at the RWC. We can still win though, I absolutely believe that. Two of the most passionate teams, and sets of fans at the RWC will (fingers crossed) provide a cracking game . . . with Scotland coming out on top!
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To Hamish, post number 28
It isnt that the Irish are choosing not to support the scots because they dont want them to progress, it is rather that Argentina have earned the respect of the Irish for the passion that they showed in the match on sunday. A six nations team in the semis is good for all of us. But I was there in the Parc on Sunday - the Argentina fans were just fantastic (not that Scots arent as well) and the Argentina players threw themselves into every tackle and ran themselves into the ground. I think that is why we are supporting them going forward, irrespective of who they are playing.
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As for the game - Scotland will have to both retain possession (the Argentinians are aggressive tacklers and their forwards are fit and hunting as a pack) and play for field position (as Argentina will do when with the ball).
If Argentina get penalties and drop goals up, it may be too hard for Scotland against their defence (as Ireland found - even while showing it could be breached).
This will place a lot of pressure on the Scotland loose forwards to perform well - yet some are not yet back to their best.
The Scots should consider two reserve loose forwards and play two locks through the game (or have only two reserve backs) to maintain the intensity required.
Keeping the game competitive (retain possession and or obtain field position) and then accurately with pace pulling off the odd canny move is "all" this requires. At the worst it simply exposes how good Argentina is.
The problem may be the scrum. How can Scotland retain possession and yet not get taken back to scrums (the Scots face an Argentinian pack determined to hunt and turn the ball over at the breakdown or otherwise kill it) which it's opponents will seek to dominate. I have no answer, so this is why I expect Argentina to win.
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Regarding Comment 28: As an Englishman I think it's a bit rich a Scot complaining the Irish are going to support the Pumas when the Scots would support anyone against England in any sport and will always do so.
Come on you Pumas.
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Correction to post 28 - very presumptious on my behalf. Read quarter instead of semi!
The Lamont brothers to show their worth and Jason White, Ali Hogg and Simon Taylor to play as they did in the six nations a couple of seasons ago.
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To No.7 - Lamont's barnet is only a penalty offence 'ungentlemanly conduct' but I reckon Chris Patterson's jaw spends half the game offside. ;-)
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Any team orchestrated by a good coach; possessing a very very large pack, led by Jason White; a world class scrum half; a fly half that can obtain territory by field kicking to a coin; a massive vertical running battering ram at inside centre; and !four! strike runners; not to mention a clinical kicker - has far more than a "slim" chance.
Moreover they can defend.
Scotland are extremely underrated and beat Ireland just before the W.C. (hence the bitterness from many of the other Celts)...
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I am incredibly excited by this weekend's game. The time has finally arrived for all the Scots garb about "something special" and "we believe we have the ability to cause an upset" to stop. Scotland, please, if you are ever going to do it and I do believe you can, Sunday is that day. We have been quietly talking up our team, but now is the time to see them produce a performance that is true to themselves. I just always feel after a Scotland game that I have re-read my school report ; "Shows promise at times, but could do better.". Its about expectation. Normally I would say that it would be enough for Scotland to play brilliantly, win or lose, but I have had enough of that. I am beginning to expect more, which I believe is a good sign.
The fact that it is against Argentina, a team I adore for their passion and latin flair. Makes my mouth water.
I really would like to see the support of our celtic cousins in green, but can also understand why they might choose to support los pumas, whom are beginning to find that promise and are doing better.
Oh and one more note - Juan Jose da Silva. Usted es un caballero, gracias para sus palabras. Asta el fin de semana.
Finally, I am thinking about starting a petition to get the pumas included in the 6 nations (should they feel there is enough competition for them!), anyone interested in joining.
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Correction to post 28 - very presumptious on my behalf. Read quarter instead of semi!
The Lamont brothers to show their worth and Jason White, Ali Hogg and Simon Taylor to play as they did in the six nations a couple of seasons ago.
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Isn't it refreshing that the vast majority of posts here are praising the argentinians for their play and recognising weaknesses in their own team, and not, as in some other sports, full of crude jingoistic "argie bashing".
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Many comments here seem to think that Argentina suddenly showed up from nowhere and beat the pants off everybody - they've been doing it for ages! They also, aren't as great as you all seem to think, though they are better than most of you thought they would be. i honestly believe France, England and probably Ireland would beat them 3 or 4 times out of 5 depending whether we could match their passion on the day. having said that, good luck to them for playing with and showing that passion that seems to be lacking from the NH sides. However, i never thought i would say this but as an englishman i will be cheering Scotland on, simply to support a NH side and putting petty rivalry behind me until the 6N starts up, so come on you scots, just pretend they're English!
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I'm a massive Irish supporter. Argentina were excellent on Sunday and are a strong team. However I always support the underdog.......COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!
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Juan (#22), I echo your sentiments. I was at Murrayfield the last time our countries met. Your fans were fantastic and the game went down to the wire. It was 23-19 in favour of Argentina that day. A deserved Simon Taylor sin-binning cost us dearly as we conceded a penalty try in the last 10-minutes. A lot of that Scottish team are still playing and will want show they have learnt their lesson and set the record straight.
With discipline, like we showed on Saturday against Italy, I think Scotland have a slim chance to make the semi-final. However, whichever team wins, I don't expect the margin of victory to be more than 10 points. May the best team win. Sadly, having seen all our group games, I won't be in Paris but will raise a glass to all rugby fans out to enjoy the occasion.
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From a Scotsman living in Buenos Aires, suddenly the rugby heart Argentina. Even after the French game, if you麓d stopped someone on the street, they couldn麓t have named 3 Pumas. Now, you can麓t move for posters of El Sexyman, Agustin or Felipe, ads running constantly on the TV. Only the taxi drivers still talk only football.
Scotland really don麓t have a chance against a team who definitely have it in them to win. That 9, 10, 12 are world class. Pichot seems to sense this, and in the huddle after the French game said 篓this is where we win the world cup篓, and after the Ireland game said (something like, my Spanish isn麓t the best) 篓here it begins篓.
If Scotland can somehow keep it tight, and it comes down to Paterson v Contepomi (not Mr Reliable in front of goal, ask any Leinster fan) then we might just sneak it, but it wil be THE shock of the world cup. But it麓ll need a return of the old, indiscipline, unfit Argentina, and that team only exists in the minds of people who still think of the Pumas from the 80s, not the ones now, who have the best record in the world in terms of win ration, a 3rd team that drew with the Lions, and REGULARLY beat the French in France.
PS Argentina have got to play Tri Nations rugby, not in Europe, and get Aus, NZ, SA to contribute something to the world game by bringing some regular world class rugby to this country.
Still, Come one Scotland. Go the minnows in this World Cup.
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As both and Irishman and a Leinster supporter I will most definitely be supporting the Pumas. I have been impressed no end by them and cannot believe those that thought Ireland would beat them......some even thought it would be easy.
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Although the balance of probability lies with the Pumas winning, I see cause for optimism on Scotland's part. After all, they have beaten a side (Italy) who, like the Pumas, have a big powerful scrum and some excellent tactical kickers. I'm also encourgaed by the start of the performance in the recent friendly against South Africa - shame the ref got in the way for the Boks opening try. It strikes me that Frank Hadden has been very canny in revealing only what he needs to - doing just enough to get bonus points against Romania and Portugal, holding back his full side against the All Blacks and doing enough against the Italians in the rain. Who knows what the Scots are really capable of in fine weather. Nice going Frank - here's to another ambush.
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I sense a definite atmosphere between Scots and Irish. Why?
I was at the Scotland v Ireland 6N earlier this year and it was evident there. Why?
I must admit I was quite surprised by the agitation in the crowd that day. It was my 2nd 6N game at Murrayfield as I had attended the Wales game earlier in the tournament and the atmosphere at that game was how I remembered the atmosphere of 5N games, jovial and friendly, which was when I last attended a 'Home International'.
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Will S, you might need to do your homework, Ireland were actually 5th before the tournament began, and Argentins were 8th, they have so far by passed England, Ireland and France, to become 4th. Do the maths Archimedes!!
And by the way, you haven't got a prayer against the Pumas, every self respecting RUGBY fan from the home nations will be cheering them on. Any fan of: limited front row ability, lack of creativity in the backs and a charlatan coach who disgraced Celtic rugby with his selection against the ABs (A bit chicken, one could suspect), will then be cheering the Jocks. Go Pumas!!
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Isn't it refreshing that the vast majority of posts here are praising the argentinians for their play and recognising weaknesses in their own team, and not, as in some other sports, full of crude jingoistic "argie bashing".
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As an Argentine fan living in Switzerland, I would like to know what the position of the IRB is towards granting the Pumas a more favourable roll in International Tours. In Argentina they are commenting on the fact the Pumas have reached considerable representation and they want to participate not only in World Championships but also in other tours organized by the IRB.
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I hope the Pumas beat Scotland. Then we (the Irish) won't feel so bad! :-)
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The decision to include Argentina's domestic rugby players in the Super 14 and a national team in the Tri-Nations ingolves a media company as well as SANZAR.
The other issue is that Argentinians playing for northern clubs would have to play rugby for 12 months of the year to play in a four team Southern Cup. Team preparation in June and tests in July and August.
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Hamish #28,
It's funny how the scores you predict are dividable by 3, as it's the only way you can secure points against top rugby teams. I'm pleased to say that even though Ireland didn't get through, and although beaten by a better team, we did manage to score tries against Argentina, whhere everyone else failed.
Charlie #43
What a load of drivel. I think the Irish fans are just pointing out that the team that deserves the support btw Scot and Arg, is the Pumas. As for this, 'Scotland and all the other 6N teams look forward to meeting you in 2008.' Why? So you can show us how to lift the Wooden Spoon again? It does amaze me how you can be consistently poo for the past few years, with a couple of lucky wins against France and England (big deal, make a movie about for goodness sake), and then delude yourselves over coming second in a group with one other big team. (All respect to Italy who outplayed Scotland and scored the only TRY of the match, despite all of their injury woes) ANd isn't it funny that your victory over Wales this year was... all penalties, and against Ireland...all penalties/DGs. As above, that's all you've got, and against Pichot, Hernandez etc, that will be cancelled out early doors.
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As an Englishman with some Scottish blood, I don't think the Scots deserve to go further in this competition. I was disgusted that they fielded an under strength side against NZ at Murrayfield. This was disrespectful to the Kiwis and to their own supporters and not in the spirit of the competition. Teams should play to win and the home crowd deserved better. This was hailed as astute but was not the act of a proud nation. Perhaps they couldn't have won but to throw in the towel without trying was shabby. If they really believed they had no chance of winning they should have gone out with dignity and lost doing their best. not saving their best players for lesser opponents.
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How is this such a shock for everyone that the pumas won the group. 4,5 and 6 were in this group and so one of them had to go out. Dont exactly know what Eddie was doing with the boys prioir to the tournament, but Ireland by far looked the weakest of these three. The Pumas have always been a hugely under-rated team and whilst as a Celt id like to see the Scots in the semis, its not overly likely. Their pack up front, and physicality may work to their advantage but I dont think thats goin to be enough. The Irish ppeople of 2 and 3 need a slap to be honest as although Ireland underperformed, and quite frankly looked average, the Pride that comes with the Irish shirt was not lost or overshadowed by the Argies. And since when were we a nation that backed the winning team. Support your home nations like you would want them to support you. Idiots! Mon the Scotts!
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As I've long maintained any Celtic diasapora only works when the Irish are deemed to be the beneficiaries. Over all the blogs there is a building dissent against Scotland.
It's hardly Scotland's fault that Ireland's allegedly Golden Generation "choked".
It's hardly Scotland's fault Frank Hadden built his team over 6/7 months, specifically to win the game against Italy.
So job done for Frank and job not done for Eddie.
Maybe some of our "alleged" Irish friends might be supporting us on Sunday. That said if we win we leapfrog Ireland in the ratings, which won't please the majority at all!.
And if Argentina give away 8 kickable penatlies, CP will get 6,7 or 8, 18-24 points!!!! if so it's game on!!!!
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As Argentine, thanks to all irish and scots for their honestly sport-minded and friendly comments, we really appreciate them. But frankly, I completely support Loffreda in saying WE ARGENTINES ARE UNDERDOGS.
Despite of IRB ranking, we are not one of the traditional rugby powers, as Scotland is, otherwise, why we are not participating in 3N or 6N? And who really cares about IRB ranking anyway? If somebody (in the IRB itself) cared, Argentina would have been participating of 3N / 6N long long time ago...But now they woke up and got surprised of what we did with France and Ireland? Hence, after many years of not considering the possibility of our existence they came and suddenly consider Argentina is a rugby power that can outplay Scots for sure? And scots now feel underdogs? How is that guys suddenly changed?
Noooooo way...you are the ones to prove you deserve to have the "exclusive right" of membership to the "elite-rugby" group.
And one more matter-of-fact reason for considering us argentines underdogs: we honestly do not take for granted at all Pumas winning over the Scots: we sincerely respect them as a traditional rugby power that can change what happened in previous matches, as all great teams can, and as Loffreda and all our team do. If we did not think like that, we would be complete idiots. And we certainly are not.
Kind regards to all.
Martin.
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It will be a very tactical game dominated by the kicking game although I don't think Argentina would rely too much on it. I think Loffreda will try to destroy the Scottish resistance with the pack of forwards. From what I've seen, Scotland seem to have a very basic, one-dimensional gameplan. Argentina are no different in what comes to this, but the difference is that we have 3 or 4 world-class players that can certainly make the difference (Hernandez, Contempomi, Longo, Pichot and two others in the making in Leguizamon and Albacete). I don't believe Scotland have such a player with the exception of Patterson.
If Argentina don't give away silly penalties in their own half and use the formations to their advantage, I see them coming on top. I think this is Loffreda's main worry, whether they will be able to maintain their discipline and tactical obedience. So far, they have done that.
I hope it will be a cracking match with two of the best supporters in the stands (although we Argies will be outnumbered, we sure know how to make us hear). Whatever the outcome, I feel that the Pumas have achieved something that will be very difficult to match by future teams: they have put the belief and inspiration back into us Argentinians, a belief and inspiration that were gradually lost due to the increasingly embarrasing attitudes displayed by other Argentine collectives, with a special mention to the football team. Every single Argentine is proud of what these Pumas have achieved. Even if we get beaten by Scotland, the team will be rapturously received back home. They have shown they have the desire and pride to put on and wear an Argentine jersey and represent our country.
I am really delighted to read some of the messages from both Irish, English and even some Scottish fans acknowledging our progress and wishing us luck for the remainder of the RWC. This is also a sign that we are heading into the right direction. I just hope the Argentine Rugby Union will rise to the occassion and make the necessary changes to its structure so the Pumas can finally get to be formally given a place in the rugby elite.
Aguante Pumas. Argentina Existe. Vamos Pumas. Good Luck Guys. Huevo Huevo Huevo!!!
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Argentinians have been exceptional, however the jocks are very very capable of pulling this one out of the bag.
I want to see Simon Taylor play the game of his life... he owes it to himself to fulfill his potential.
As well as the hype on his kicking, I also want to see Paterson run and jink through defences like we know he can. As for Sean Lamont....back yourself man...stop those daft wee chips ahead... your massive...run through them.
And the Irish... who cares what they think....they are gone laddie!!!!
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*In a basil fawlty tone*
Just Dont Mention the War!!!!!
Seriously tho Im amazed that the Tri Nations dont want the Pumas in their comp as it would be of mutual benefit that said if they dont want em the 6N should snap em up as it will improve the diversity and the quality of the competition.
Im currently torn between supporting my Celtic Cousins (im welsh) and Jumping on the "feel good" story of the Tournament in the Pumas.
End of the day hopefully a good display of rugby on both sides will elevate the confidence of both sides.
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It will be a tactical battle dominated by the kicking game although I don't think Argentina would rely too much on it. I think Loffreda will try to destroy the Scottish resistance with the pack of forwards. From what I've seen, Scotland seem to have a very basic, one-dimensional gameplan. Argentina are no different in what comes to this, but the difference is that we have 3 or 4 world-class players that can certainly make the difference (Hernandez, Contempomi, Longo, Pichot and two others in the making in Leguizamon and Albacete). I don't believe Scotland have such a player with the exception of Patterson.
If Argentina don't give away silly penalties in their own half and use the formations to their advantage, I see them coming on top. I think this is Loffreda's main worry, whether they will be able to maintain their discipline and tactical obedience. So far, they have done that.
I hope it will be a cracking match with two of the best supporters in the stands (although we Argies will be outnumbered, we sure know how to make us hear). Whatever the outcome, I feel that the Pumas have achieved something that will be very difficult to match by future teams: they have put the belief and inspiration back into us Argentinians, a belief and inspiration that were gradually lost due to the increasingly embarrasing attitudes displayed by other Argentine collectives, with a special mention to the football team. Every single Argentine is proud of what these Pumas have achieved. Even if we get beaten by Scotland, the team will be rapturously received back home. They have shown they have the desire and pride to put on and wear an Argentine jersey and represent our country.
I am really delighted to read some of the messages from both Irish, English and even some Scottish fans acknowledging our progress and wishing us luck for the remainder of the RWC. This is also a sign that we are heading into the right direction. I just hope the Argentine Rugby Union will rise to the occassion and make the necessary changes to its structure so the Pumas can finally get to be formally given a place in the rugby elite.
Aguante Pumas. Argentina Existe. Vamos Pumas. Good Luck Guys. Huevo Huevo Huevo!!!
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WeeMan #65
Judging by your name you're struggling with small man syndrome....not to mention small country syndrome. Why all this sudden animosity towards Scotland? It wasn't so very long ago that Ireland were perenial whipping boys, pulling off the odd surprise victory by being, dare i say it, plucky, unadventurous and taking their chances when they came (ie kicking their goals). In recent years you have enjoyed relative success. However a few triple crowns means absolutely nothing when you consider what you were playing against (mediocre English, Scottish and Welsh sides). However when it came down to it you just couldnt handle the pressure of winning a Grand Slam. At least i can actually remember the last time we won the Grand Slam! Can you?
Ireland have been overachieving for years and are now paying the price for believing their own hype and not sticking to the thing that made them so hard to beat (teamwork). I'm sure you were only too happy to bask in the (relative) glory of successive triple crowns and a team labelled the "Golden Generation". However when the pressure was on your lot proved to be nothing more than "fools gold".
Scotland have a quarter final to look forward to, Ireland don't. Let's just look forward to a fantastic match without all this glib-faced jealousy and underhand comments.
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Wee Man (#65). Get your facts straight. Scotland beat the Irish scoring several tries. Andrew Henderson playing opposite Brian O'Driscoll and scored a hatrick that day.
Graeme (#66). I paid out good money to see all four of Scotland's group games and have been pleased with our approach to the tournement. The aim of any team is to win the World Cup. To do that you first need to get through the group stage. Frank Hadden's selection against the All Blacks allowed us to do just that without picking up injuries to key players (Hogg, White, Taylor, Blair and Paterson). We are now in a position with our best players available to have the best chance of progressing to the semi-finals.
These gripes about selction amuse me. I have not heard any complaints about Fiji's selection for their game against the Ausies. They picked a reserve side in order to give themselves the best possible chance against Wales. Fair play to them.
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Wee Man 60
All self respecting RUGBY fans remember with 40% of the worlds rugby players at their disposal the beautiful RUGBY played in 2003 by the world champions.The Argentiniians have been tremendous for RWC 2007 and lets hope for an exciting and competitive spectacle. An uphill task for the Scots I suspect with somewhat limited resources.
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*In a basil fawlty tone*
Just Dont Mention the War!!!!!
Seriously tho Im amazed that the Tri Nations dont want the Pumas in their comp as it would be of mutual benefit that said if they dont want em the 6N should snap em up as it will improve the diversity and the quality of the competition.
Im currently torn between supporting my Celtic Cousins (im welsh) and Jumping on the "feel good" story of the Tournament in the Pumas.
End of the day hopefully a good display of rugby on both sides will elevate the confidence of both sides.
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It will be a tactical battle dominated by the kicking game although I don't think Argentina would rely too much on it. I think Loffreda will try to destroy the Scottish resistance with the pack of forwards. From what I've seen, Scotland seem to have a very basic, one-dimensional gameplan. Argentina are no different in what comes to this, but the difference is that we have 3 or 4 world-class players that can certainly make the difference (Hernandez, Contempomi, Longo, Pichot and two others in the making in Leguizamon and Albacete). I don't believe Scotland have such a player with the exception of Patterson.
If Argentina don't give away silly penalties in their own half and use the formations to their advantage, I see them coming on top. I think this is Loffreda's main worry, whether they will be able to maintain their discipline and tactical obedience. So far, they have done that.
I hope it will be a cracking match with two of the best supporters in the stands (although we Argies will be outnumbered, we sure know how to make us hear). Whatever the outcome, I feel that the Pumas have achieved something that will be very difficult to match by future teams: they have put the belief and inspiration back into us Argentinians, a belief and inspiration that were gradually lost due to the increasingly embarrasing attitudes displayed by other Argentine collectives, with a special mention to the football team. Every single Argentine is proud of what these Pumas have achieved. Even if we get beaten by Scotland, the team will be rapturously received back home. They have shown they have the desire and pride to put on and wear an Argentine jersey and represent our country.
I am really delighted to read some of the messages from both Irish, English and even some Scottish fans acknowledging our progress and wishing us luck for the remainder of the RWC. This is also a sign that we are heading into the right direction. I just hope the Argentine Rugby Union will rise to the occassion and make the necessary changes to its structure so the Pumas can finally get to be formally given a place in the rugby elite.
Aguante Pumas. Argentina Existe. Vamos Pumas. Good Luck Guys. Huevo Huevo Huevo!!!
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As I've long maintained any Celtic Diaspora only works when the Irish are deemed to be the beneficiaries. Over all the blogs there is a building dissent against Scotland.
It's hardly Scotland's fault that Ireland's allegedly Golden Generation "choked".
It's hardly Scotland's fault Frank Hadden built his team over 6/7 months, specifically to win the game against Italy.
So job done for Frank and job not done for Eddie.
Maybe some of our "alleged" Irish friends might be supporting us on Sunday. That said if we win we leapfrog Ireland in the ratings, which won't please the majority at all!
And if Argentina give away 8 kickable penalties, CP will get 6,7 or 8, 18-24 points!!!! If so it's game on!!!!
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All this outpouring of goodwill for Argentina suits Scotland fine regarding the buildup to the game and if Argentina are hyped up beyond their capabilities by beating below par French and Irish sides all the better
Nice to see the Irish and Welsh chip in for their Argentinian cousins-good to see there's no spewing still going on and they've come to terms with their exit...enjoy the weekend!
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Hamish is right to be disappointed by Irish support for Argentina. I think Irish fans are generally happy to see Argentina progress and get what they deserve. However, Irish should be supporting their neighbours in Scotland bearign in mind we play in the same league. It would be massive for Magners League rugby to have a semi finalist.
I don't want to see Argentina go out but pragmatically from and Irish point of view a bouyant Scotland is good for our rugby,.
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#33 - a comment like that from a scotsman if it was england playing argentina would have been shouted down i think...
Wee Man - are you discounting the 5 tries scotland ran past Ireland in the Autumn? Or do you not consider Ireland a "top rugby team"
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To number 53, just to let you know that Argentina beat France 5 times in the last 6 matches, also something similar to the Irish, meaning that we didnt win as casuality.
We can win or we can lose, but the player will leave everything in the field.
I expect a good match this Sunday and I hope and believe Argentina will win, but the match needs to be played anyway without underestimating Scotland which is indeed a good team.
Let' see what happens on Sunday.
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At least some of you Irish fans are honest enough to admit that you're supporting Argentina because you cannot bear the thought of Scotland doing better than you. Every Scots fan i know supports Ireland as their second team and would support the Irish against anyone bar us.How bitter do some of you feel about your performance? I'll still continue to support Ireland but i don't blame anyone who doesn't.
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Big Man #77,
Hey , you don't need to slam the Irish team. I know they played like amateurs this year. If you're referring to the debcale in Edinburgh, where the Irish 2nds bar BOD and Paulie, still managed to carve through the strongest scottish defence for 2 excellent tries. There's not much to blow about. You're right Henderson played a blinder that day, i was there. However, using that as an example, when your coach Frank coward Hadden, let Scotland's best down, just to keep with history, in case someone might criticise him for not making the QFs, is a joke. Catch a grip Tiny Man!
Pumas for the semis, can't wait.
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Post 83: the Irish weren't below par; they've been like this for about 18 months now. They were just outplayed by a better team, howevermuch BOD might whine.
Can hardly blame Scotland for playing to their strengths so far. I also think they'll prefer playing Argentina to a resurgent France at home. But I'd prefer the Argies to win, not least as I think they can beat the Saffies and stop a deeply predictable all-tri-nations final.
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Anyone remember that Argentina just beat an abysmal France in the opening game? You can't take the Argentinian pummelling of a clueless, spineless, heartless collective of individuals (Ireland) as any kind of measure of them.
Fingers crossed Scotland turn up on Sunday and at least make Argentina play a bit. Watching Ireland's hopeless attempts to make Hernandez play entirely to his strengths was comical, if embarrassing.
Hope Hadden has a few more cards up his sleeve.
Wee Man - I'd invite you to put your money where your mouth is (on Argentina), but you'd choke en route to the bookies wouldn't you? That's the Irish rugby way. Talk big, then deliver nothing. You head back home for some of mum's home made stew, while us Scots are still dining on authentic cordon bleu cuisine!!
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I am disappointed by some of the comments that have been floating around this website which have been posted by our celtic cousins.
"I'll second that sentiment. As an Irish man I will be shouting for Argentina to beat Scotland."
What has happened? For the record - Scotland are there on merit. We had two confortable victories, beat a 6N side and lost to the No 1 team in the world and the comments that we have over-achieved, we don't merit our place to me are misplaced.
The Irish should be getting behind us I feel. We have a great chance to reach the semi-final in my eyes and, to be honest, stranger thing's have happened in Rugby than Scotland beating Argentina. I would be rooting for Ireland if they were in the QF against Argentina.
See you all in the Semi-finals.
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look no offence to scottish fans but argentina will beat ye. sorry to say this but scotland beat a mediocre italian side and alot of that was dependent on chris patterson.that doenst mean i wont be shouting for scotland but if argentina do win, it'll be deservedly so and it will be good to see them get the recognition they deserve. as a celt, my heart wants scotland to win but my head says the pumas will. ireland performed badly at the wc but it doesnt mean we're a bad team now and sorry but the 6n we will be back with a vengeance.
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Wee Man - Idiot
People from other nations only bang on about Patterson because he's been around a while and has proven himself to be an exceptional kicker and a very good utility back...in terms of exciting runners who can break through the line: Webster, both the Lamonts, and even Blair are all more important then Patterson.
Unlike O'Gara (where has his form gone???) or Wilkinson (crocked) we have someone in Parks who can actually kick position.
If, as someone else pointed, enough of world class forwards (White, Hamilton, Taylor, Hines, Hogg) hit form - Italy game, which in the circumstances was always going to be a battle, suggests yes - then we will win.
Our form may not have been consistent over the last few years but it's been down to unusual amounts of injury...yet still we have beaten every other nation in the 6N - nobody should forget much of the Irish ill feeling stems from Scotland thrashing Ireland just before the World Cup ( btw Henderson scored the hatrick of tries and he doesn't eve make it to the starting line up for Sunday.
Pessimism is an old scottish trick but there's no point - no disrespect to the Argentinians but if this team plays anywhere near its potential we'll win convincingly on Sunday (don't forget all the Scottish players play for top European clubs).
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Who are the underdogs? Non sense at all.
None of both teams are.
Thanks God for the rugby and thanks God for those teams, players and supporters that still believe passion, pride and hart come first.
I think 50% of the teams still believe that and the other 50% don麓t.
To everybody there: In which side of the moon is yours?
From my point of view, full respect to Scotland.
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Good luck Argentina, I hope you stuff the Scots and the Boks after that. I was at the opening match in Paris and you were a credit to your nation and the tournament.
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re. comment #49 by kieran,
You stated all of Scotland's nice qualities and I must agree with you on most of them: good coaching; very large pack, led by Jason White; a world class scrum half; a fly half that can obtain territory by field kicking to a coin; a massive vertical running battering ram at inside centre; and !four! strike runners; not to mention a clinical kicker - has far more than a "slim" chance. Moreover they can defend.
I just would like to know how come Scotland, with all these qualities has managed to struggle with Italy after two weeks of rest?
Pumas by 20 points this Sunday.
Jason White will learn to be careful about what he wishes for.
BTW: Thank you to all Irish fans for your supporter.
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The Argentinians have been a revelation in this world cup only because they do not get the exposure that the 6-N and 3-N teams get. We only have to look closely at recent meetings to see that they have been showing both great promise AND great achievement (5 of the last 6 matches vs Scotland, running NZ close, beating England and France, for instance).
Scotland, on the other hand, have generally been diabolical for the last decade. We did not respond well to the introduction of the professional game. We will have to play out of our skins, and much better than recent form, to beat the Pumas.
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If Scotland beat Argentina I might just slit my wrists. Scotland had one objective; to reach the QF's and they sneaked in (just). Save me and win please Argentina! At least you show some ambition and have scored tries against good opposition. Scotland didn't look like scoring against the AB's or Italy except from penalties.
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I am so disappointed by these comments coming in.
I think we have a great chance to win here but people really seem to have the knives out for Scotland.
Please explain why?
If we play well and score tries on Sunday (which is possible before you say otherwise) will you give us a break then?? I believe we can. Paterson, Lamonts, Webster are all good runners if they get the ball.
Please support us fellow celts!!
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I am so disappointed by these comments coming in.
I think we have a great chance to win here but people really seem to have the knives out for Scotland.
Please explain why?
If we play well and score tries on Sunday (which is possible before you say otherwise) will you give us a break then?? I believe we can. Paterson, Lamonts, Webster are all good runners if they get the ball!!
I think people from the British Isles and Ireland should be getting behind us. No?? There is only ourselves and England left. Why??
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Scotland need to change out that awful version of Flower of Scotland, where are the pipes?
Get a pipe band on the park and stir it up, at least change the CD that is being used!!! Where is the pride and passion, gone with advent of professionalism??
I look forward to a great game on Sunday, our local "Celtic Festival" will empty out at 11.45am so we can get to Foley's Irish Pub to watch the game.(Only place we can see it live thanks to the "Irish" Setanta channel)
As for those Irish fans who are supporting the Puma's, everyone has the right to support the team they want to.
About time the Scottish team painted their faces blue and did the "Hadrians Wall" haka!!!
Honestly how can you be taken seriously wearing that stupid new strip!!! get back to the solid top with the thistle on the chest feel the difference it makes.
last thing WHERE ARE THE PIPES!!!!!!
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Let's see if Scotland can come up with a decent game plan to combat the obvious Argentinian one. This will be a good test of Frank Hadden & co.
The back three for Scotland will need to support each other as you can bet there will be a lot of high kicks. Scotland will also need to use their ball wisely, don't try to bust around the rucks but take it a bit wider and the loose forwards need to know the plan and get there quick to recycle. The key is quick ball not from phase 1 but more like phase 3 or 4. The key against Arg is to play the game away from their strengths, because their strengths are obvious. The question for me is: do Scotland have the players that are good enough to do this?
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Live with it gang, Scotland are going to be caught out and shown up to be the overachievers of the tournament, thus far.
Ireland were woeful, and thoroughly deserve to be off home for Mum's Irish stew as Charlie #88 says, after all he is the one with all the intellect here!?!
Go pumas, put them out. As earlier mentioned about the atmosphere between the scottish and irish supporters at Murrayfield. Simple, it's a place that only gets filled for rock concerts, and a handful of Edinburgh supporters who don't know better. Maybe the SRU will have another bright idea, right up there with getting Andy Robinson involved, like shut it down and build them something smaller. It's a miserable place to go and watch rugby, and its miserable because the supporters know Scotland's record there against Ireland in recent years. I guess they had to win sometime, it might as well be this year against the Irish 2nd team.
Huevo Huevo Huevo.
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This transcript O'Sullivan and BOD's team talk to Ireland before the Argentina game just in;
"Jeeez, to be sure to be sure boys, be sure and play to Hernandez's strengths. Lots of kicks to him likes, give him time to kick back.
"Geordan, every up and under ya do, be sure and dive like a fairy on contact with the first Argentinian ya see. Ronan, play the first minute like it's the 80th. We must score the four tries in the first twenty minutes. What ya mean why? It's what BOD says boys! Believe him!
"Play to the Argentinian strengths, let their pack maneouvre us round the pitch, like yer ma moves stew round the pot! We've been unable to score tries, so be sure and pretend that was all false and run run run! BOD - if you score, be sure to goad the Argentinians with a comment like "that's the first" or whatever ya like when running past. That'll go down well.
"So let's play to their strengths and play kamikaze from the first minute! True, there are eighty minutes in a game, but who's counting! None of us anyway! We can't likes!"
GENIUS tactics paddies, GENIUS!
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I was impressed by the Pumas against the Irish but I'm glad Scotland are playing them now and not the French.
It's not just, as Jason White had said, that it would be tough playing Les Bleus on their home territory. Take a cold hard look at the results - I genuinely believe France are a better side.
Sure the Pumas won the group - but it turned out not quite to be the group of death everyone expected, thanks to poor Irish form. Against Georgia and Namibia the French outscored the Pumas comfortably. Yes the Pumas despatched the Irish but this was no side in Triple Crown winning form and as for that opening win against the French, well we all know what can happen to French teams from time to time. With their backsides firmly kicked by the Pumas they have started to show some decent form.
The Pumas have a great pack and wonderful strategic kickers - then again, so did Italy. Frank Hadden has been careful not to over extend Scotland. They did enough to get the job done and pick up bonus points against Portugal and Romania. He has kept the squad healthy and didn't have to show his strongest hand against the All Blacks. The weather didn't help against Italy so who knows what the Scots have left up their sleeves on a fine day - maybe nothing - but I for one don't think there is as big a gulf between the two sides as everyone is making out. I hope I do not have to eat my words come the weekend. C'mon Scotland.
PS - how come the French can play Flower Of Scotland the way the Corries wrote it whereas Scottish bands always change that ONE note ?
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As an Argentinian ex rugbier im very glad for the nice comments about Argentina. Thank you.
But we are not a power rugby nation. We don't have serious international competition, our rugby is a completely amateur sport here, the UAR budget is the tenth part of England麓s or France麓s budget, and a QF was our best achievement.
Yes we have a wonderful team in terms of pride and modesty. So Scotland
Los Pumas don't think they are better than any other.
Thats why Los Pumas are having that big support in my country.
Excepting Argentina, Ireland and Scotland are my favorites teams, so i expect a great game, fairly played.
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cant wait for loffreda at tigers, he seems like a class act. i'll be in marseilles all weekend supporting the english and fijian boys (to no avail i assume) but i think i'll try and pick up an argy jerzy to cheer pichot and pals on!
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Thanks Irish, thank English, thanks even Scots that are supporting for los Pumas on Sunday. I just wanted to clear you out that rugby is not proffesional in Argentina, is not about the money...it麓s all about frindship, companinonship, entreainment and amateurism. (For now at least!) That麓s why you can see our boys shuoting the national hymne in every match -even into tears. They are really passionate with the game. Do you remember playing any sport as a kid with your friends?_ that麓s what pumas are feeling. That麓s our trick.
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As a Scot living in NZ and being used to watching southern hemisphere rugby, our play has been pretty one dimensional so far. But we are not totally without hope for the Q/F. If we show some ambition and move the ball wide we will defintely get tries. Lets get the Lamonts running at them!
Some of the comments from Irish here, whats that all about? Not only are we both celts, but gaels too!
Alba gu brath!
Eirran go braith!
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C'mon Scotland, we must have one decent game in us as we have been abject so far. Ireland and France played into Argentinian hands with their poor tactics. Lets hope FH has a few aces up his sleeve. I am disappointed with the response from some Irish fans, supporting Argentina against the Scots? Sour grapes or what? So much for the Celtic spirit you should be ashamed of yourself. Look forward to Argentina in the 7 nations though.
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I think Scotland has some chances. Not too many, probably, and maybe an extremely narrown margin for mistakes. In any case, they (the Scots) surely can play with passion, if they want to.
As for Argentina, I think many of you guys should do your homework and take a look at some head-to-head stats from the last 10 years of Arg. vs Scotland, Arg. vs France, Arg. vs Ireland. Also check out the number of active male players in Argentina and the Home Nations, France, etcetera. All that stuff is available at IRB's website. Sure, numbers are just that, but still, can give us some clues.
As for Argentina joining either 6N or 3N... I don't think that will happen any time soon, as they won't bringing much [$$$] to the table, and IRB probably don't give a rat's butt about rugby as a sport, as they apparently see only the biz side of it. It's a shame.
BTW, if Argentina ever joins 3N (that is, if Oz, NZ an RSA acknowledge Argentina is in the Southern Hemisphere), after a couple of seasons playing for it, NH teams can forget about beating them except every now and then...
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Out of curiosity, just how popular is rugby in Argentina?
Is it even on their radar? Has this World Cup caught the Argetinian public's imagination?
It would be a shame if it hasn't as Argentina currently have a team to be proud of.
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wee man # 100,
you're a very bitter wee man aren't you? Murrayfield only good for rock concerts and we could only beat your 2nd XV?
I've been going to 5 and 6 Nations games at Murrayfield for years and the atmosphere is always magic. why all this anti scottish sentiment? you're making your countrymen look bad. OK you've admitted Ireland were woeful in this WC but you seem to think you had a right to do better. your slating/baiting of Scottish rugby suggests you're a nwecomer to rugby. need I remind you that before your 'Golden generation', Ireland were regularly the 5 nations whipping boys and your record against Scotland at Murrayfield was almost as bad as ours at Twickenham! and that's bad.
for the record, even when we were really struggling a couple of years ago, I always supported Ireland against any southern hemisphere team, likewise with ALL the Home nations, including England.
your attitude really suggests that, now you are out, you want those who beat you to win and don't want your neighbours to out do you further. in fact, all the wee underhand jibes are embarassing. I'm sure most of your countrymen, who in my experience are nothing short of delightful, are mortified by your bitterness.
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Pumas are great - no doubt about it. But the Ireland game flattered them. Ireland have been together too long, peaked at the wrong time and I reckon have a few clashing personalities (BoD,PoC,EoS,RoG). Scotland's team are in a much better place at the moment. Confident in their own abilities and confident in their kicker! I was supporting Ireland of course. Celts should unify in support of the opponents of our common enemy (you know who that is)
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anysparechahge,#109,
I'm not new to rugby, i've been involved in the game for many many years, not that i need to explain that to you.
You almost had me crying for you there. I'll happily jump in and slate the Golden Generation (never mentioned byme BTW). Aww don't cry in yer haggis!
To be honest, most irish fans are probably reading these and having a good laugh at a bunch of frumpy skirt wearers jumping in and biting at what can only be described a s superior level 1 banter. It's hilarious to read. Besides, what else am i to do between sorting out your giros. Ha! ha!
And as for all the cries for where are the pipes? Easy, the organisers obviously thought that the sound of strangled cats before any sporting event could effect the referees hearing. I suppose that could work in Scotland's favour!?!
Go Pumas!!
Pumas will win, for the following reasons:
Paterson is a confidence kicker, (how good was he against the ABs). Gloucester will soon find they have wasted their dosh!
No innovative thinking in the backs, severe lack of creativity. BORING!
Jason White is the best forward you have, and even he was quiet against Italy. He's too nice, no cutting edge! Will cost them. Ali Hogg is showing signs of promise tho.
They have a coward for a coach.
Perhaps, if the 2011 RWC is going to be split down to the Big Nations and the wee ones, Scotland will get a place in the wee ones. (Ireland too)
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anysparechahge,#109,
I'm not new to rugby, i've been involved in the game for many many years, not that i need to explain that to you.
You almost had me crying for you there. I'll happily jump in and slate the Golden Generation (never mentioned byme BTW). Aww don't cry in yer haggis!
To be honest, most irish fans are probably reading these and having a good laugh at a bunch of frumpy skirt wearers jumping in and biting at what can only be described a s superior level 1 banter. It's hilarious to read. Besides, what else am i to do between sorting out your giros. Ha! ha!
And as for all the cries for where are the pipes? Easy, the organisers obviously thought that the sound of strangled cats before any sporting event could effect the referees hearing. I suppose that could work in Scotland's favour!?!
Go Pumas!!
Pumas will win, for the following reasons:
Paterson is a confidence kicker, (how good was he against the ABs). Gloucester will soon find they have wasted their dosh!
No innovative thinking in the backs, severe lack of creativity. BORING!
Jason White is the best forward you have, and even he was quiet against Italy. He's too nice, no cutting edge! Will cost them. Ali Hogg is showing signs of promise tho.
They have a coward for a coach.
Perhaps, if the 2011 RWC is going to be split down to the Big Nations and the wee ones, Scotland will get a place in the wee ones. (Ireland too)
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Out of curiosity, just how popular is rugby in Argentina?
Is it even on their rada? Has this World Cup captured the imagination of the Argentine public and press?
I really hope it has because the Argentinians currently have a team they should be proud of.
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To RobP No 102
we will see what happens this weekend. I do believe Scotland has good chances to win the match, but it is likely that Argentina will win.
It is not a casuality that we have beaten France 5 out of the last 6 times, so I do not agree we are lower than them. Also the Irish are a very good team.
Do not underestimate Argentina as others did.
I wonder, who did you beat in this world cup?
I beat France and Ireland.
Living in Ireland I have huge respect to your team guys, and I also expect a good match next Sunday. This is our chance to make something really important, and I do not believe our guys will let it leave as we did before.
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Poster 100, i must apologise for being a member of such an inferior race to you Irish, i honestly hadn't realised that Murrayfield was so bad as i for some unexplicablke reason enjoy going there. Apparently its all because of our home record against Ireland. To my recollection, Ireland have beaten us the last twice they've visited, i believe they went 20 years without a victory before that and also went around 10 years without a victory against us anywhere including losing to us in the WC.Ireland have had the upper hand for the last 5 years or so, that's the way it goes, you wont be brilliant for ever as has just been proved, we wont be medicore for ever.I really dont understand the poison directed at us from Irish fans on this board and other places.I appreciate that these are probably only the rantings of people who jumped on the bandwagon when Ireland discovered a winning team for the first time in their history, perhaps before they tell us how bad we are, wew could compare our respective records. I will continue to give Ireland my support against everyone except Scotland and i know that all true Irish fans wish us all the best.Have you lads ever thought of watching Football? Sorry, i forgot Hampden Park is a dreary and depressing place these days, Ireland are doing so much better. apologies if i've offended any genuine Irish Rugby fansas i have the greatest of respect for you.
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To RobP No 102
we will see what happens this weekend. I do believe Scotland has good chances to win the match, but it is likely that Argentina will win.
It is not a casuality that we have beaten France 5 out of the last 6 times, so I do not agree we are lower than them. Also the Irish are a very good team.
Do not underestimate Argentina as others did.
I wonder, who did you beat in this world cup?
I beat France and Ireland.
Living in Ireland I have huge respect to your team guys, and I also expect a good match next Sunday. This is our chance to make something really important, and I do not believe our guys will let it leave as we did before.
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look scottish fans on here. most irish fans are supporting argentina not to have a pop at scotland or because we hate scotland (opposite is true) but because argentina have been a revelation this wc and we were well beaten by them so we want to see them go far! not because of any anti scottish feeling. also they are definitely more entertaining than scotland so no offence scottish fans, it would be better to see a team with absolutely no support from the irb go far this time around.
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i dont know what murrayfield has to do with supporting argentina! i'm irish and am ashamed of those comments made by an irish person. george g- those comments are made by a minority of irish idiots! i love scotland, i just would like to see argentina go through as they havenever received any recognition.
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But like the Murphy's we're not bitter?
I'm a Scot living in Ireland with an Irish wife, Daughter born in Ireland, Son born in Scotland and rugby orientated inlaws. I've put up with this guff for the last 4 years or so. All I get from her side is how good Ireland are at rugby and with Edinburgh gubbing Ulster at the weekend aswell the purple patch has come to an abrupt end.
Normal service is resumed, I keep quiet in victory and they are all lovely and quiet in defeat yet again, because boy was it noisy when they were winning.
How many grands slams and home nations championships? That's Champ-ionships and not Champ-and-Chips by the way! See you at Choke park next year.
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A scottish fan thought that the Irish fans cheering on Argentina was sour grapes. I doubt it. I will be cheering for Argentina but not because of any misguided bad feelings towards the Scottish camp. But Irish rugby fans had no choice but to respect the pumas. They were the better team and its more likely that we (certainly in my case) will be cheering them on as their beating of the hosts and Ireland deserves better than a quarter final place. Rugby in Argentina needs a good world cup and on reputation its the pumas that have less of a world cup legacy and so it would be great to see them in the semis. But if Scotland win Im sure the Irish rugby fans will celebrate their win too.
As for Argentina joining the 6 nations - I wont be surprised if they said 'stick your offer' and joined the tri-nations instead. The NH teams had been a bit second rate and the arrival of Argentina would herald the arrival of a tough but skilled team and would mean one of the present 6 nations teams actually has a chance of winning the world cup. It would raise the bar.
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Gentlemen Argentina is a surprise today because is not part of 6N or 3N, which shoud be the case.
These men are playing with the heart and I hope that, whatever happens in this RWC, they will be finally recognised as they deserve.
I wish our football player would put the same in the field, as we are in the papers the best but we haven't won anything in 20 years.
Pumas, you are doing it great, congratulations!!!
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Here are my reasons why I think Scotland can win against Argentina.
Scotland will be a different proposition altogether. Ireland had to chase the game against Argentina from the start needing to win by a big margin. Under pressure from the start and it showed. Scotland, on the other hand, start the game against Argentina with a level playing field and there isn't the same pressure on them at all. As long as Paterson does his usual job and the Scots maintain their discipline, they may not be required to score even one try to win(Ireland had to score a minimum of 4)Argentina will not enjoy the same insurance they had against Ireland. And Scotland will be quietly confident because the opposition I believe are being lulled into a false sense of security being heralded as favourites. Okay, they beat France in the opener, but that was a one-off. I doubt if they could repeat that at this later stage. Upsets can happen and it did. And it can be argued that the Scots have played reasonably okay so far and are just building things up as the tournament progresses. You can ignore the New Zealand game as the Scots played 13 reserves - even then they didn't disgrace themselves. The Italy game was always going to be a nervy affair and as one of the "main" European sides Italy would have caused problems for all of the Home nations including France when playing for qualification for the Quarter Finals. Make no mistake this will be a very close game but I am going to take the bookies on. Scotland may edge this one as they did against Italy.
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118, no offence intended to a genuine fan like yourself. I appreciate through gritted teeth that it would do more for the World game if Argentina win than it would if Scotland did and can see why people wish them well but obviously as their playing Scotland i can't wish them well on Sunday. If they were playing Ireland, i would support Ireland unreservedly, if they beat us ,i hope they win it.My gripe is with the ' fans' rubbishing Scotland for no good reason. Whatever happened to Celtic Cousins? Never mind,see you in Dublin next year.
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#93, Ed - cheers for recognising the strengths and here's some of the reasons why the Italy game was and was always going to be a battle:
1) It was being played in St. Et. - the Scots always perform poorly there, it's become a genuine psychological factor.
2) The referee has a history of being biased against Scotland - FH - alluded to it before the game and sure enough, as recognised by the!English media!, the Italians got away with murder throughout the game whilst the Scots were strategically penalised e.g. he sent off Hines for a supposed high tackle(?) in the most important period of the game.
3) Our form player was injured and off for the game within the first ten minutes.
4) Italy had been building up to the Scotland game and little else for the last two years, just look at some of their press beforehand, look at their faces at the whistle, witness how dirty they got when frustrated. It was their cup final.
5) Most importantly, the weather was absolutely apalling which simply precluded expansive rugby...
6) ...and Italy undoubtedly have one of the best packs in the world, this is their strength, and this is where the conditions colluded to locate the game.
------ and yet, the Scottish forwards took the Italian pack on and won; Patterson and Parks kicked great; the next game is in Paris (Scots do well there in recent years); Rory Lamont has recovered; and the weather forecast is good. My only concern is that the Italy ref is acting as fourth official.
------ Finally, if Scotland are so poor how come nobody can identify a single weak player in the starting xv, how every one of them plays for and many of them star for top European clubs? How come - despite at no point in the last two years having more than 50% of our first team players available - we have beaten every other nation in the 6N? How come in our warm up games before the W.C we thrashed Ireland and narrowly lost to S.A. (in only our second warm up game, with them mid way through their season and at the top of their fitness curve)? How come we have the ability to play up front, the ability to kick both from hand and in the field, and in the backs the players to break through the line (Webster, Blair, Lamont, Lamont, Patterson..) and break the line (Dewey).
Btw, White is not the only world class forward (in fact he does not look at his best though he remains an inspirational captain) - Hamilton, Hogg, Hines and Taylor are all up there.
Oh and don't forget this is a relatively young side with figures of authority dotted about the pitch.
---- Underrate this side at your peril, roll on and over Argentina..mark my words.
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Good luck to Scottland too from an argentinian! We have a great respect for Scottland and all its passionate people.
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Firstly, lot's of pathetic comments from all sides on this post - let's not turn it into a football rant.
Secondly, although we're talking about Scotland and Ireland here, I think the wider debate should actually focus on the deficiencies in the way we play the game in the Northern Hemisphere. Clearly we are not competing and our ambition seems only to stretch to the QFs or maybe the Semis and then winning/not wooden spooning in the 6N beyond.
Forget the triple crown, forget the grand slam, they are irrlevant until we can compete against southern hemisphere first teams. And I don't want to hear any more references to RWC '03 because we don't need history right now. To do that, we need to stop sending second rate sides on tour and take all our opportunities to experience southern hemisphere games more seriously.
I'll be supporting Scotland at the weekend but I want to see a more skilful and controlled display than the sometimes "wild" ball throwing efforts they've been apt to play and get away with in their minnows matches.
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George Graham, #115, i refer you to post 112, which i wrote especially for the scottish that can't take a bit of banter about the irish. I'll repeat myself for you.
I thought Ireland were bad, they were outplayed and they tried to survive on reputation as we all saw (and they did) it didn't work.
But i stand by all my other comments on Murrayfield, scottish chances on sunday and...
....typical for a scot to mention the football. I could have sworn this blog was about rugby, so my advice is, the little icon with the arrow pointing left on your toolbar, takes you back a page, then click on football and fill yer boots, or carpet slippers or whatever you armchair players wear these days.
Still can't the skirt wearing, cat strangling behaviour tho.
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Mark wrote:
Out of curiosity, just how popular is rugby in Argentina?
Mark: Rugby is not that popular here in Argentina. First you have football, then basketball, TC (a motor sport), tennis and then rugby.
Rugby is played mainly by higher mid class guys (from traditional schools and clubs, almost all founded by British or Irish migrants) , and UAR dont want professional rugby by now because they are afraid of becoming something similar to football.
I still prefer amateur rugby, but UAR committed a lot of mistakes (they lost a lot of money with that contract with Sport Five, etc).
This good Pumas performance is only because we have a great coach and also we have a golden generation. But there are not too many replacements here when these guys get retired.
We are not involved in a serious international competition (maybe because including Argentina is not a good business for UAR, 6N, 3N or
IRB)
Whether the Pumas win against Scotland or not, they have already do their job well
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Scotland will be a different proposition altogether for Argentina. Ireland had to chase the game against Argentina from the start needing to win by a big margin. Under pressure from the start and it showed. Scotland, on the other hand, start the game against Argentina with a level playing field and there isn't the same pressure on them at all. As long as Paterson does his usual job and the Scots maintain their discipline, they may not be required to score even one try to win(Ireland had to score a minimum of 4)Argentina will not enjoy the same insurance they had against Ireland. And Scotland will be quietly confident because the opposition I believe are being lulled into a false sense of security - in fact there are a whole bunch of Irishmen really playing up Argentina because they got beat by them. Scotland would have beaten the Irish if the Irish had to win by 4 clear tries and 7 points.
Okay, Argentina beat France in the opener, but that was a one-off. It wouldn't happen at this stage. Upsets can happen. And the Scots have played reasonably okay so far and are just builing things up - ignore the New Zealand game as the Scots played 13 reserves. The Italy game was always going to be a nervy affair and as one of the "main" European sides they would have caused problems for all of the Home nations including France.
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I just want to comment on Marks statement that Marcelo Lofreda is a "former civil engineer". The fact is that he still is a civil engineer and will be as long as he is around in this world, although his actual occupation is related to sport. His training in engineering surely is helping him plan his tactics and obtain good results with the obvious help of the players and their talent.
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I cant understand the anti Scottish feeling, what did Scotland do to anybody to deserve that. A lot of sour grapes I suspect trying to "big-up" Argentina to make their own results seem somehow better.
The great thing about International Rugby is that it is won on the park on not on messageboards.
Good luck to both teams, I think it'll surprise the so called "experts" on here and be a great, evenly contested match, worth of a WC Quarter final.
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Wee Man, i think we'll call it a draw then. We haven't had much to shout about in Football for a while so you'll have to forgive me for mentioning it, still don't believe you find Murrayfield lacking in atmosphere though.
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As an argentinean supporting my team, in a country where rugby is regarded as second or third sport by a long way I would like to thank all the people in this forum and specially the Irish fans. As Pichot said, when the game finished the Irish boys came and congratulated them and wish them the best. Even O'Gara wish them luck despite the fact that they have crossed some words previous to the match. This does more than warming my heart, those things give me some hope in human kind!!!
To me now rugby is the best sport in the world and I am going to make sure my children play it. It is the only sport left where doping is never heard of, where guys try to kill each other in the game but when it finishes they go for a beer together. The heart and sould really shows in the pumas but also in many other teams and players and that makes this sport the greatest, cleanest and honest one.
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I would like to join Nacho (#105) and others in thanking so many of you Irish, English, and Scottish supporters who have been extremely gracious in yoour comments. As an Argentine (of Welsh descent) I'm sick to death of all the "Argie-Bashing" that has been going on for so long - admittedly we deserved a great deal of it as a nation of idiosyncratic Enfant Terribles, but it still hurts. Part of the pride and passion shown by our players (and shared by all Argentines)has not so much to do with simply winning at sport, it is a desire for recognition, a vehicle to show the world another face of our country and that we are not just another miserable third world country full of ill-mannered, ill-tempered cheats. It is a delight for us to have none other than Les Cusworth come out with his take on our country and our spirit(Times Online as well).
Again, a big thank you to all who have had kind words of support for us. Roll on Sunday,and may the best team win !!
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there have also been some rants about ireland by the scottish fans so please dont dish it out unless you can take it. i'm really in 2 minds about scotland argentina! i love scotland and scottish people but the argentinians are fanstastic too.respect everyone- also scotland doing well in the football is great- will shout for them as ireland are so bad at the football. in rugby we'll be back though i'd better go before i turn this blog into a hallmark blog and arnold schwarzenegger. !
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As an Argie, I am glad and thankfull with all the support that the Irish fans have show us in this blog. Thank you guys.
I still remember M. Laporte after the first game saying that we have nothing to ofer to the french team. I hope the IRB gives us a place in any internetional competition in the future, as more teams in the game, is better for the rugby worldwide.
As for the scots I think we are at same level and hope for a very interesting and passionate match (I am not like David Campese)
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George Graham #132,
Evens it is. Mate, I look for the blog with the most potential tension and wade in with the biggest boots i can find. It's nice to know i haven't lost my touch. tee hee! Part of it is just to wind up the scottish physio i work with, she used to play Scotland ladies, and i know she reads the blog. I'm constantly getting rude signs made at me across the office. All the Best at the weekend, i'm sure rugby will win. It's been fun. To all you jock supporters out there, aye the noo!!
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It would be very easy to overestimate the Argentinians after their victories over a below par France and one of the most overrated teams in the competition, Ireland. When you consider how much Ireland struggled to overcome the minnows in their group and Scotland thumped theirs, even when not playing well, it's ample evidence that Scotland would always be a sterner test for Argentina. We're delighted we don't have to play France in Paris, but disappointed we haven't got an easy ride against Ireland. Looking forward to a semi against South Africa.
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hamish- scotland will not provide a sterner test for argentina than ireland. dont make me laugh. ireland arent overrated at all. sorry but good luck to scoland when coming to dublin in the 6n as they will get hammered. they will also be hammered by argentina. i suppose argentina beating france was a fluke too- sorry but scotland beat a mediocre italian team and onlpy because of chris patterson and sent a second team out to face nz. how is that an example of a sterner test for the pumas?
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If this wouldn鈥檛 be a world cup tournament where chances are few and they are to be capitalized fast I would say France and Ireland are two teams that are above Argentina (my country team).
However if a team such as Pumas can achieve certain confidence and stretch its potential to reach a higher level and deeply believe that it is possible then this sort of 鈥渕iracle鈥 of winning France on the first match can happen. Then if that is sustained through the matches knowing how important is every second of every match despite the rival the team can grow within the tournament and that is what is actually happening.
What this team understood as a golden rule is how important it is to know and understand their weaknesses and limitations. Once that its only a matter of not exposing these weakness, the other way round use it as an asset. It is often that any team that makes this process is because it has a humble attitude rather than arrogant. This last two words are the ones that the French should remember next time, as a team and as an organization.
Fortunately for Pumas the French where already in the finals when they first went into the field on first match. This French error had to be assumed by Irish but they simply couldn鈥檛. It was shown with Georgia that Ireland didn鈥檛 believed that Pumas could win the first match. The Irish team was prepared to win Pumas on last match but was very badly prepared to support the pressure of this 鈥渕iracle鈥, so they ended paying for another鈥檚 error.
The French organization decision of sending the second team of the zone to Cardiff is 鈥搃n my personal opinion- a luck of respect. While planning the tournament they where too busy thinking in the final game against the All Black鈥檚 that when the question came on where should the second play they didn鈥檛 even think about them. Well guess they wanted that so bad that they are making it happen鈥︹︹︹︹..far away from home and in the worst scenario obviously. I hope they review this awful attitude that was nothing else but a nightmare to them.
I also hope the Pumas can keep growing in confident which is crucial on the final instances. The head plays a very important role and they are using their heads in the right way. They are playing smart. I am glad.
Regards
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I think as Argentinian that Scotland is a good team.
Maybe they are in transition now, but they are still very dangerous for a team like the Pumas.
This nice recognition of the Argentinian team is a great homage to "Negro Gait谩n", a Puma that had to move away because of a serious illness.
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Ireland will hammer us like they did Namibia and Georgia? How did your warm-up games go? Oh, that's right, one of them was at Murrayfield, where we let you back into the game by easing off for a while in the second half. Still, Ireland never relied on a kicker to win games, did they? We would have been wise to throw the ball about in the rain against Italy, wouldn't we, and putting out our first team against New Zealand 5 days before a crucial game against Italy would have been really intelligent. Still, it was an exciting game between Ireland and France, wasn't it? It was exciting trying to guess how much France would win by.
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I actually can鈥檛 believe the bitter pessimism coming from the Emerald Isle! Can I remind all you Irish fans that the Scots stuffed you last month! Therefore by saying 鈥渨e'll Argentina beat us, so therefore Scotland won鈥檛 score a point鈥 is utter drivel. Get over yourselves Ireland, what ever happened to Celtic solidarity? As a Scott I always support the Irish and was gutted when you got knocked out. But we鈥檙e still there. Regarding the Argentinean wins, the French played the worst game I鈥檝e seen them play for 7 years, and the Irish are just on another planet at the moment. You can鈥檛 doubt the Argentineans class, I just feel that they鈥檙e being slightly over rated on the back of 2 鈥榞ifted鈥 victories. Call me controversial, but this games going down to the wire鈥..
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I actually can鈥檛 believe the bitter pessimism coming from the Emerald Isle! Can I remind all you Irish fans that the Scots stuffed you last month! Therefore by saying 鈥渨ell Argentina beat us, so therefore Scotland won鈥檛 score a point鈥 is utter drivel. Get over yourselves Ireland, what ever happened to Celtic solidarity? As a Scott I always support the Irish and was gutted when you got knocked out. But we鈥檙e still there. Regarding the Argentinean wins, the French played the worst game I鈥檝e seen them play for 7 years, and the Irish are just on another planet at the moment. You can鈥檛 doubt the Argentineans class, I just feel that they鈥檙e being slightly over rated on the back of 2 鈥榞ifted鈥 victories. Call me controversial, but this games going down to the wire鈥..
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pd you scots stuffed a 2nd string irish team.
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People talk about Argentina as if they're shocked they're doing so well. Before the cup began I had France & Ireland playing for 2nd place in this group. Argentina have beaten France in Paris numerous times now as well as notching a number of Scalps away from home (England at Twickenham also?)
However, for all the "bring Pumas to Tri nations" or "Make it the 7 nations", you have to be kidding. The logistics of such tournements would be rather pointless. However, here's an idea...have a tournement including Canada, USA, Pumas and other countries from the Americas? Canada and US play B teams from the 6 Nations, which doesn't really help them develop!
My God...are you saying that we should make rugby GLOBAL and not limited to the few elite countries that dominate the game on and off the field now?
PS - It's a crime that the World Cup in 2011 is in New Zealand and not Japan!
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i dont get why the scots are so sore that some irish fans are supporting argentina. it's nothing to do with scotland or hating scotland, the fact is we are supporting the team that beat us well and because they did so well to get that far. not because we hate scotland. get over it anyway- why should we necessarily support the scots? in normal circumstances i would probably support them against another team as an irish fan, i'm not going to be ashamed of going for the pumas just because the scots think we should. i like scotland and scottish ppl but i want to see argentina do well. some of these anti irish rants on here are ridiculous. there are also some ridiculous comments about scotland on here too but ive read some horrible irish comments too. also no 143, no offence but beating ireland's 2nd string team at home isnt much of a indicator that scotland will beat argentina.
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Have to support the Celtic Brothers on this one, C麓mon Scotland!!!!
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To comment 107
Rugby in Argentina is basically an elite sport. I'ts played in Private secondary schools where trhe rich boys go.
The Rugby is AMATEUR over there, but if the PUMAS play in Argentina, the the Big stadiums are fullfiled.
Reading some of the comments of support to the PUMAS bring tears to my eyes. The PUMAS will play with the heart next weeked. Pasion will be our secret. The PUMAS are Hungry fo Victory and are willing to be recognized by the world Rugby.
PLase get Argentina in one of the bit annual turnaments.
A big hug to the SCOT fans and good luck
I believe that the PUMAS can make History this time.
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haddon's decision to field a second string side was perfectly justified. scotland dont have a massive depth in squad and the last thing we needed was a load of injury woes caused by a maurauding all blacks team. NZ knew this and respected it. they themselves did everything possible to keep their 1st string side healthy. choosing penalty kicks rather than kicking to touch whenever was possible. the key to succeeding in the RWC is tactics and keeping the 1st team healthy. look at what happened to england against south africa when certain 1st team players were absent.
This as many people will know is not the first time this has happened. the welsh and irish have done it in the past. infact the second string welsh team fielded beat their opponents and it was hailed as a master plan by their coach at the time.
scotland and NZ just went through the motions that day, which was very apparent. so much so that once all the spectators had left the stands and the teams came out for their warm downs, instead of their usual drills the two teams met once again for a touch rugby tournament.
That we should field the full team for the all blacks to have some practice whilst putting our team in jeopardy is ridiculous.
Scotland have been the most successfull home team so far in the world cup. beating the minnow teams with ease and the italians on a day where wheather conditions played straight into the italian hands. they CAN beat the pumas, they need to show for a full 80 minutes what they can do, rather than just showing glimpses.
Come on Scotland!!
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Folks, all Argentina is asking for is RESPECT, I can see it in their press releases, in the flags at the stadiums. The truth is that if they were named France instead of Argentina, the Pumas would be 20 point favorites against Scotland.
A fluke against France in the opener? Sure, they had 5 of these flukes in the last 6 games against France.
An overrated Ireland? Jason White could not said it better. He'd rather face Argentina, a team that Scotland beat for the last (and only) time in 1990.
After watching the performances before Portugal and Romania, the comedy against the ABs to get rested and almost got beaten by Italy, the choice is clear. Pumas in the semis, you can take this to the bank.
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As a Welshman, still coming to terms with his grief (and soon off to join a lynch mob marching on the WRU HQ) it pains me to read so much hostile banter between the Irish and Scotish contributors. Having said that . . .
Against anyone other than Cymru I would normally be supporting the Jocks. Problem is that I've supported Argentina in rugby and soccer for over 40 years, ever since the '66 soccer world cup when Rattin, the Argentina captain, was sent off, England won 1 - 0 then, with the help of home advantage and very dodgy referees and linesmen went on to lift the trophy. Then, for the next few years we had to live with the crowing. God! it was awful.
So, sorry boys, and sorry to all the great Scots I know and respect, but this weekend I shall be cheering Los Pumas (jaguars, really). This RWC is their stage, their chance to say to the world 'Stop pretending we don't exist!' They deserve success. I just hope that they don't 'choke', as the national soccer team so often does when they are clearly the better side.
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theres hostile comments from alot of people here- it's ridiculous. personally i'm supporting argentina as they outplayed france and my team, ireland and for that i give them so much respect. however this does not mean i hate scotland and am anti scottish as so many scottish fans on here think. i dont have to justify my reasons for supporting argentina but if scotland do win i will congratulate them and be delighted for them! there have been lots of petty comments on here- some racially abusive on both sides. just stop it and good luck to both teams- it'll be an exciting game. however i'm technically shouting for the pumas because i think they have been shown such little respect by various nations. their pride alone is outstanding. i dont hate scotland- in fact i love scotland and i think scottish people are fantastic but just realise that if the irish are supporting argentina, it's because of the respect we have for them as a team and how they came through the group of "death"
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Who cares who the Irish and Welsh are supporting...they're playing club rugby this weekend....
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As much of you have already said, all that Los Pumas want is respect from the IRB. At this stage, it doesn't matter if they win or lose against Scotland. They have already got that respect from the public, and that麓s the most important thing.
I hope this could be a great match between my nation (Argentina) and another one i always admired.
Also hope France can`t pass through SF, since everything seemed to fit for them to be champions
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To No 145 just one quick question, who did you beat to? romania? portugal? italy?
we beat france and ireland my friend and you didnt even score one single point to the All Blacks. I think nothing else need to be said.
Just see how both teams play, and show some respect.
To the rest, I do respect Scotland
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