Backs to basics for England
- 26 Jan 07, 08:46 AM
London - Ok, so who fancies a gentle Friday warm-up argument then? You know, just to get the banter fine-tuned for the weekend.
England coach Brian Ashton names his starting XV on Monday for the Scotland opener, and it seems highly likely that will be named to start at inside centre. Inadvertently, I've found myself quite excited about this.
But I don't want to turn this into a Farrell debate, more a general, philosophical head-scratch on the England backline.
You see, while we've (oops, England. Oh, forget it, we) have always had this reputation for a big, bullying pack, we seem to have misfired outside for as long as I can remember, barring the odd all-too-brief golden period, such as the run-up to the World Cup.
And so often it seems to be the same problems that linger year on year - passes being flung around ears, feet, or three yards in front; backs taking the ball standing still; wingers scared to back their pace (the reason, presumably, they were picked in the first place); an over-reliance on high cross-field kicks and a lack of imagination for a few crafty pre-arranged moves.
Now, I'm no expert, and am prepared fully to be shot down, but my perennial tap-room rant is that anyone who has played rugby for any amount of time at whatever age will have spent hours running up and down the pitch ad-nauseam, practising passing and trying to hit the line at a bit of pace.
So why does it so often seem to be beyond the ken of the professionals, who had the same grounding and now do it as a highly paid job? I have a similar beef for footballers who can't kick with their left foot. Anyway.
Matt Dawson on Sport on Five last night was talking about how having Farrell outside the similarly green fly-half Toby Flood was a bit of a question mark. Not big enough not to try it, but just something to consider.
He wondered whether the lack of experience and guile orchestrating the backs, like the /Will Greenwood combo, would result in England's three-quarters still struggling to get out of the mire.
Farrell knows his rugby onions, there's no doubt about that. Whether he knows his position is a different matter, though he could be a spectacular breath of fresh air.
For the record, and given the injury situation, my backs for this week would be Ellis (9), Flood (10), Lewsey (11), Farrell (12), Tindall (13), Balshaw (14), Tait (15).
But actually, in a way, I'm more interested in what Brendan said on this blog a few days ago. "I pray as an England fanatic that we play without fear, and instead of the much-hackneyed term 'smile on the face' I would prefer the 'eyes wide open approach' of sportsmen playing on the edge of their ability," he said.
And that's the sort of thing I'm talking about, although there's no reason why it should be on the "edge" of their ability. While you need some organisation to lay the foundation, once a move is on and they're on the run, the really good players, the clever ones, then revert to instinct.
They exploit gaps subconciously, drawing a man as second nature, and making sure their passes hit the target. The supporting players, too, know exactly where they should be. And great back lines - think New Zealand now - pour through the opposition like a pack of rabid dogs when they smell an opening.
And that's what I want from England. More instinct, more hunger, better basics. The best way to get "smiles on faces"? Score tries. Who's with me?
Wales 27-18 England
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You've hit the nail on the head there Rob, Wales weren't the best team in 2005 but we were successful because we played with more instinct, more hunger and better basics than anyone else in the tournament. The game in England is analysed and scrutinised way to much.
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Graham Henry talsk about playing on the edge of the edge. The sort of play wales showed back when he first took hold. He backed key players (Jenks etc) to play flat and then use their full abilites (ok pod system aside for now..). Whilst Brian Ashton is a different animal I think he will get people playing on the edge, doing things they might try in training, relying more on playing what they see in front of them. Its not about having a game pln but being flexible, and I like that. Be prepared for mistakes, but the mistakes will be more interesting and the long term prospects much improved. As a welshman though it is a little worrying that england might start getting close to their potential, but we'll cope with that ;)
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Suspect not too many people will disagree with the content of your backline, Rob, but why have you got the two recognised fullbacks on the wings and the wing/centre at 15? Surely it would be better to stick Lewsey at the back and let him hit his lines.
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It's all about the break-down, always has been, always will be. Since the World Cup, whoever's played up front - with one or two exceptions in one or two games - has singularly failed to hit the break-down with any force or guile. Even on 'our' (Englands) ball, we've pussyfooted around and let the opposition defensive line bully us and push us off the ball, or at least force us into slowing down release so much that our backs invariably end up receiving 'hospital' passes. We've seen so often your aforementioned passing to static backs, or ill-conceived cross-field kicks to try to get things moving again as a consequence. Naivety, fear, listening to the opposition and media too much telling us we're rubbish? Who knows, but can't we just go out there and play rugby. It's a simple game, let's stop over-complicating it.
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What stands out to me, in addition to agreeing with all that about the backs, is that when I watch S Hemisphere front rows, they sprint around the park, finishing off length of the field tries etc, while our front rows are jogging around aimlessly. Surely we can find some men mountains with a hint of speed. (remember Geoff Capes - shot putter and sprinter) !!
Not sure if its a good thing or bad that we play Scotland and then Italy first. OK gives us a chance of a reasonable start, but think I'd rather play them when we've had chance to get our act together. I fear a total whitewash, and reckon Ireland must be odds-on for the grand slam.
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Ah! thanks for that Rob, I've just finished my stretching exercises.. I can't wait for the 6 Nations opener against Scotland. I am hoping to see a real change in the way the team presents itself and hopefully the baggage of past misdemeanours will have been left well behind. I am looking for a different mentality on the Park that allows the players to play to the best of their abilities. If we do that we have a chance against any international side. Just offering a few ideas up, but there almost seems to be a tinge of self deprecation in the English psyche when it comes to winning. Guilt perhaps for the old days of the Empire when we didn't win Trophies but Countries. An underlying sympathy for the opposition that blunts the killer instinct. That or the fact that the players lack the hunger to succeed because deep down they feel they already have. Ah the professional era! You are probbably thinking 'poppycock!' Well probably, and hopefully Brian Ashton's skills will prove it so. 'Lay on Macduff..'
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The previous problems with Englands back line stem from the lack of clinical possession secured at the breakdown. If you look at the difference between the all blacks (and to a slightly lesser extent Ireland) in the AIs the speed of ball coming from rucks was much quicker allowing the backs the time and space to be able to move onto the ball. As soon as this is sorted England will prove to be a much more fluent force in attack. Unfortuneately when this happens though Charlie Hodgson, the best english playmaker (his premiership play highlights this), will probably not be in the reckoning for the 10 shirt
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From the available squad I think I'd go with
Ellis
Geraghty
Robinson
Tindall
Tait
Balshaw
Lewsey
With Flood/Farrell on the bench, to come on for Geraghty/Tindall if the back line looks flat
If I really was picking the side I'd drop Balshaw to the Saxons and replace him with Simpson-Daniel though
but if I was BA I'd drop Balshaw to the
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As a good old fashioned welsh man I can say that the grand slam will be a forgone conclusion. Gods teem and the land of the daffs will beet all that try to stand in the way.
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Let's be honest - no matter what Brian Ashton comes up with, it can't get much worse for English rugby!
I think Ashton's enthusiasm alone will see England home against Scotland and I expect a massive game from Farrell who, I'd imagine is relishing the opportunity to show Twickenham his skills.
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Thats exactly the back line I picked on the beeb site the other day. Give tait some space to run, Farrel is an expert at finding and more inportantly running channels and two experienced, FAST, wingers. Three quarters are still much of a muchness but JW will be back soon enough and all will be well with the world!!
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I think England should try a bit of pace in the centre. I think Tindall has been in pretty good form this season for Gloucester when i've seen him so i would have him in at first...and then perhaps someone like Josh Lewsey 2nd centre...giving England more pace and guile than two run-through-tackles centres. If Jason Robinson is/was fit he would surely start at full back. England don't suffer from a lack of talent just bad combinations in my opinion. And where is James Simpson Daniel???
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No one on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ network has yet commented on the possibility of Farrell kicking goals with Catt playing at his old position at fly half. Flood and Geraghty are far too green to be starting internationals. Neither has any big game experience, i.e. cup finals or anything of that significance. What do people think of this Catt Farrell axis as an idea? My backline to start against Scotland would be 9Ellis, 10Catt, 11Lewsey, 12Farrell, 13Tindall, 14Tait, 15Robinson.
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Give Farrell the opportunity to show us the magic he did whilst playing for Wigan. There he actively put players into space to get across the gain line. But you are right - how come not one of the England team seems to want to hit the gain line at speed, whilst looking to offload - seems fairly elementary doesn't it?
Anyway my back line would be:
9 Ellis
10 Flood
11 Lewsey
12 Farrell
13 Tindall
14 Tait
15 Balshaw
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I agree that Farrell is a must....but he should be supported by runners who can take his off-loads at pace, and a back-row with the speed to follow that up....and rapid ball from rucks. Geraghty is the more imaginative choice for rapid distribution and incisive breaks.
My backs would therefore be Ellis and Geraghty at half, and Farrell and Noon at centre, and Lewsey, Balshaw & Tait as the back three.
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May I be the first to say Rob that you have now openly invited the ire of every disgruntled Celtic fan who has the cognative ability to click onto this blog!
Ha ha, only joking mind!
Anyway, yes that is the perfect way of getting smiles back on the gobs of England players. What we need though is the correct combination of free flowing flair and brutal grunt to acheive that aim.
Blooding in Flood properly and seeing how he would do paired with Farrell sounds like an interesting idea. I mean, it isn't as if we're spoilt for choice here with injuries, etc.
We need to think a little more creatively to get things sorted.
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I too am excited by the inclusion of Farrell, but I can't help thinking that Tait must have a central role to play. He's a 13, definitely not a 15 (too much kicking and fielding of high balls required). I think Farrell could be the perfect choice for putting Tait into enough space to use his step and vision. I'd rather have Lewsey at full back. I really rate Tindall, but he's not got the ability to confuse defences in the way Tait does. Surely Ashton wouldn't overlook someone like Tait, or fall into Robinson's trap of picking players out of position so soon?
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I agree that the England backs need to start scoring but hopefully we will score loads of try's against the scottish.
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England became obsessed with power up front and running at "trunks" ie contact and not "branches" ie attacking space. Prob go t more chance of scoring from 1st phase, via basic hands than 34 mini rucks driving up the middle as the defence fans out which usually results in a drop goal - which tome seems a last reosrt and defeat or the high cross kick to the corner. Will Greenwood offered the craft in the midfield which has been lacking, where Noon is over rated and is better at bench pressing than doing a mis pass
Ashton is very much a coach who wants players toplay with thier head up and paly whats in front of them which is refreshing.
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I think the England back line and team get way too much stick.
As a passionate Irish fan and fan of rugby as a whole I remember when England under Jack Rowell played a forward game for 60 mniutes and let loose in the final 20. This strategy was very intelligent as England's forwards were usually never beaten if even matched. England should use this game plan as it tires out the oppisition and England have the strongest pack in the six nations.
Many will say that this is boring and terrible to watch. These critics will come from England's rivals and want England to lose. I say England should say "sod it" and play this style of game. If they do this they will win their home games and could win one if not both away games in the six nations. Who could citicise that in England after their situation in Autumn internationals?
England are an excellent scrummaging team. Few will get the better of England here. As far as the line out goes England just need to throw to the front and they will still maul most teams.
After doing this for most of the game....the opposition forwards are jaded and holes will appear....England should be confident of a win by this stage and should have the confidence to throw the ball wide and exploit the holes in the tired oppositions defence.
Does anybody else agree?
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Completely agree (apart from Tait on the wing and Lewsey at fullback).
At the risk of sounding too English I would choose ruthless efficiency over smiles-on-faces every time. After all I am not sure you would describe New Zealand's back play as happy-go-lucky but you would pay good money to be entertained by them.
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I am a big fan of both Wilko and Farrel, but, being Irish, the thought of them paired with Tindall doesn't exactly fill me with fear when they'll be up against O'Gara, Darcy and O'Driscoll...not to mention Shane Horgan (possibly the most improved wing in world rugby over the past few years), Trimble and Murphy streaming through. Lewsy, Balshaw and Robinson have hardly set the rugby world on fire for a while. Sorry fellas, really can't see England doing very much with that back line. Yes, of course Tait would be better in at outside centre, he would bring a better balance to a slow line. Defensively you can't fault Wilko (as long as his shoulder holds) Tindall and Farrel but I can't see where the blistering line breaks will come from.
Alas gentlemen, I think this will be Ireland's year, bring on the world cup! I see our biggest and toughest game as being Wales.
Good luck to England though.
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I think the lack of expansive back play by England post World Cup can be put down to two things. Firstly having Mike Tindall at inside centre seriously restricted Englands back play. I think he only passed it three times in one particular match. Secondly England have failed to consistently stay with one combination of fly half and centres so that the players have never got used to each other. Along with a weakness at scrum half and lack of quick ball they were never really going to set the world alight.
I'd be surprised if they come alight against Scotland especially if it is a new look set of backs with Farrell at centre. Scotland will spoil too much ball and if England win it will probably be from penalties.
I have a feeling Scotland will sneak it catching England cold.
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I think the lack of expansive back play by England post World Cup can be put down to two things. Firstly having Mike Tindall at inside centre seriously restricted Englands back play. I think he only passed it three times in one particular match. Secondly England have failed to consistently stay with one combination of fly half and centres so that the players have never got used to each other. Along with a weakness at scrum half and lack of quick ball they were never really going to set the world alight.
I'd be surprised if they come alight against Scotland especially if it is a new look set of backs with Farrell at centre. Scotland will spoil too much ball and if England win it will probably be from penalties.
I have a feeling Scotland will sneak it catching England cold.
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Good article, good responses.
We all agree that it shouldnt be rocket science to a professional player, but even so I fear coaches do overcomplicate things. When defending a player might have to worry about positioning, and when to commit to the breakdown, but when attacking coaches should simplify as much as possible to encourage creativity and stop players worrying whether they should be doing something else and becomming leaden. My rules would be for backs to stand deep, expect a good pass or at least expect your colleague to break the gain line. This is what NZ do, and is why they always seem to have tons of support runners behind the defense. Our boys sometimes appear to be worrying about whether they should be in position to clear-out if their colleague gets tackled. That is a forwards job. Forwards are welcome to stand out in the backs but they must not be in a position to receive the ball, only to hit the first defender and clear-out should the tackle be made. I realise that sometimes backs have to get stuck into the tackle area, but I wince to see centres and even wings ploughing into the tackle area whilst a forward loiters outside them. In my day, wings were too weedy for this sort of thing anyway.
In short, take away half the responsibilities from a player, stop them worrying about too many things, and let them concentrate on what they're good at.
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As a Scot living in Twickenham, who is planning to spend the last weekend of the 6 nations in Dublin for Paddy's Day, my bets are well and truly hedged!
I'd love Scotland to do well, obviously but I think the Irish have it this time around.
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I completely agree. While there has been huge criticism of England at international level, I've still thought that the Premiership has good players coming through. The U21 Grand Slam success shows this, so I don't understand what has gone on at international level. We should be playing without fear, since we're not favourites in many games anymore. I just want to see England go for it, even if they lose and most all, make the most of what they've got. When you look at Wales, Scotland and Ireland, it's obvious that the teams are performing close to their best potential, particularly Ireland. So why can't England do it?? At least they've now got a decent coach and maybe the arguing and infighting between the RFU and clubs will stop and they'll contract the top 32 players to play for England. It's a shame that we have to hit rock bottom before changes are made!"!!
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Its more about the way the half backs react to the situations than the three quarters running lines. Too often, even with quick ball, English scrum halves take time to look at their options once the balls at the back of the ruck or maul, instead of looking early and then reacting. The fly half has often not moved and taken the ball standing still which slows down the back line and means any space has to be created outside and makes the defense easier. If the fly takes the ball on the move his options increase and so do those outside him. Movement off the ball and looking ahead, that's what England need to achieve if they want to improve their performances.
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I agree with the choice of back line. As long as Farrell and Tindall are ready to batter into the midfield this will allow the other backs to exploit the gaps. Remember, England haven't had a player since Will Greenwood who can goup the middle or bring others into the game from behind. Tindall is the business when he has someone who utilises his power running to the full extent. It remains for Farrell to use this opportunity (if given) to show us what he can do. Keeping it simple is the best way forward but we do need people who can think positively during the game. We need to give all the players the opportunity to think on their feet and react to the dynamic circumstances found during the game. This could have been a problem for England over the past 3 seasons. The game plan is drilled into them so much they didn't think outside of the box. I hope they are told that there is a set plan but if the opportunity presents itself, get on with it and the rest of the team is right behind that person. Using the Six nations to build for the WC2007 is perfect. Establish a dynamic and powerful England side which no one likes playing against. If we do this but suffer the odd loss on the way, as long as everyone who supports England thinks the better team won rather than a sub-par performance by England gave the opposition the victory, I believe there’s plenty to look forward to as an England fan. P.S. Dan Ward-Smith has to be the No. 8. for me. Excellent ball carrying abilities and a ‘positive eagerness’ to get over the gain line is just the job.
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Andy Farrell needs to play against Scotland to repay some of the faith the RFU invested in him by bringing him to union. Otherwise why bother? An alround ball handler and kicker is essential at 12 these days, a) to relieve the fly half of a bit of pressure and b) to allow the rest of the back line to fire. They are all capable of breaking the gainline, setting up good attacking platforms and scoring tries, but without space and the ball they will struggle. I believe England will come good this 6 nations, but need to look at 2011 for the next World Cup triumph.
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I agree with most of what you say, to be quite honest I just hope that we play with more flair and inventiveness. I don't mind if we don't win the six nations (provided we beat Italy). I'll be able to deal with losing aslong as we do it with style. So at least by the end of the tournament we'll be able to say that we can see the direction the team are taking and we're playing good rugby. Hopefully BA is the right man for the job.
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I don't know why anyone would want to pick Mike Tindall - he just doesn't have the passing skills or positional sense to get the back three into the game.
England should pick 9,10,12 and 13 and just stick with them (barring injury). Part of the reason why the Irish and Welsh backlines have performed well in recent times, is because they have a much better understanding of each other's games. O'Driscoll instinctively knows what D'Arcy or Horgan is going to try, just by reading their body language - it's been a huge advantage for Ireland and Wales - and England would do well to follow suite.
I'd go with Ellis, Flood, Farrell, Tait, Simpson-Daniel, Robinson (Lee) and Lewsey.
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Bit optimistic that Anton, considering you couldn't score one last year? ;)
FWIW I'm pretty pessimistic as ever about the trip to Twix. If the players feel unburdened following the departure of Robinson then the talent is there for England to perform.
But on the flip side, every back combination above looks pretty experimental to me. Throw in the fact that the Scots have had two more weeks prep time together and are being rested en masse the week before the Test and...well, who knows?
One final question that nobody can answer for me...who's going to kick your goals. If its anything like last year...it could come down to that. My money's on Paterson winning a kicking duel.
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As a Scotland fan I am delighted to see that England propose to start the Six Nations against us with such a piece of unjoined up thinking.
Ellis (9) not a bad player but will be outshone by whoever Scotland pick at scrumhalf (3rd choice Lawson from Gloucester has been the standout player on either side in the last few Heineken cup games shown on Sky)
Farrell (12) great as a rugby league star and undoubtedly a potentially great player. But outside a wholly untried standoff for your first game? Also most of his union experience is in the English style game of mauling, whereas Scotland play a high pressure rucking game. He will not get the time/space he is used to in league or in English rugby union.
Tait (15) - not very good under the high ball against one of the best kicking fly-halfs (Parks)in a team which plays the highball a lot.
Flood (10) - One of Scotland's strengths is the back row and their interaction with the centres. As with Farrell, Scotland will undoubtedly pick up from the base of the scrum and run straight at Flood. Has limited experience of high pressure games.
Balshaw (14) - fast but injury-prone. Will need to be physically strong against Lamont
Have respect for Tindall (after all anyone who can pull the Queen's grand-daughter must have something) and Lewsey has shown himself to be a tough competitor.
Given the depth of English rugby it does seem that Ashton is recreating the problems adopted by Robinson.
To be successful with this team England will have to establish a really strong forward position. I cannot see them doing this against either Scotland or Ireland, but they may be able to do so in the other games.
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I really think we are missing a scrum half with real awareness since the days of Dawson - someone who fights for the ball and quick play and doesn't get flustered under pressure.
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Rob,
"playing on the edge" surely you meant "Over the hedge"? I have been watching England for more years than I care to remember, I have seen them in the 70's when they were distinctly mediocre and watched them get better and better and then we won the World Cup! Since then we have just got worse. When you see England play live as opposed to on TV you get real sense that they have lost the passion and fail at the basics. I put a lot of this down to the coach: wrong captain, no kicker and selecting of out of form players. How many times has Andy Robinson said that Hodgson had a good game when he has clearly not; inept goal kicking, poor strategic kick, poor passing, poor tackling and generally wandering aimlessly around the pitch not paying attention to what is going on. I am hoping that with a new coach and some new faces that forwards will start weight training and the backs will learn to run in a forward direction with the ball and not in a straight line! If this new regime fails then I suggest we install Max Boyce as coach, he knows a lot about rugby and at least if we lose we will have a good time in the bar afterwards.
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All professional players are good, England having more to choose from should help but this doesn't mean that they are great. Great players have a different spirit and great teams occur when others develop spirit in the group. Neither of these things are present at the moment but new players and new coaches are absolutely the way to find that spirit
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I agree Englands back line have rarely lived up to their individual's form or collectively, I belive sometimes this is due to picking a so called superstar(Wilkinson etc.) and expecting them to turn arround the whole backline on their own.
Perhaps the issue lines with selecting a balanced back line that can work together well and collectively be more dangerous than the individual superstar.
To develop a style that attacks from deep ignoring the gain line but looking to beat the tack line first at pace and not be in a flat line accros the park that we see week on week in the League.
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To Andy, Becington, John, Tom and any others I may have missed who would prefer Josh Lewsey at full-back - I must admit I agree with you!
I was swayed at the last minute by the fact that Tait was switched to full-back for the Falcons recently.
Then again, if Robinson was fit I might be inclined to stick him there. Or would I?
As for Marcus' suggestion of playing Catt at 10 - well, it's not a bad shout at all. But maybe they'll use Catt for a steadying influence off the bench.
I also like Simpson-Daniel (thanks cyberryan87), but if we were to promote him to the squad it would set the cat among some more rather plump pigeons. (Does this mean we're actually now spoiled for choice, or just clutching at straws, I can't quite decide?)
Anyway, for what it's worth, my England backline in a perfect scenario currently looks like this: Ellis, Wilkinson, Simpson-Daniel, Farrell, Tait, Robinson, Lewsey (or the last two the other way round).
Having said all that, the other week Jerry Guscott very politely refused to name his speculative England line-up for me, saying it was a pointless exercise and that you could only select on form and fitness.
So that sort of takes us back to square one. Over to you Mr Ashton.
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I do think England should grab the opportunity to start afresh, now Ashton is in charge, however I am worried about the Farrel/ Flood idea. Flood could be key for the future and Farrel might be great (who really knows). But England are in the habbit of losing and come match day there will be huge amounts of pressure form the media and crowd on the team. Could this turn into another Tait situation with Flood or Farrel being scared for ages? I think one of the 10 or 12 needs a bit more experience, Jonny W anyone?
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Interesting piece Rob, which I mostly agree with. Rugby played at the edge of players ability will inveriably lead to mistakes, but will also result in some breathtaking rugby like that shown by Wales in 2005, France when thay turn up and NZ regularly.
As a Welshman, my English backline (on current availability) would be:
9. Ellis
10. Flood
11. Simpson - Daniel
12. Farrell
13. Tait
14. Balshaw
15. Lewsey
Admit that Farrell is untried at international level, but in many ways that could be a good thing in that he doesn't carry the burden from recent poor form over. It's not as if England have anything to lose by picking him.
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I truly think England are not in as bad a state as everyone is making out. The pack will compete and the backs will cause problems.
Playing he "smaller" teams to begin with could also be seen as a benefit, as confidence could come from those games.
However, if Scotland pull out the stops and get a positive result, it will be a long first winter for Brian Ashton.
I also think France are in more turmoil than they are admitting, due to injuries, reluctance to say goodbye to the old guard and Laporte's insistence on sticking by his "tried and trusted" even if there are seemingly better options (Chabal - a better option; Pelous - old guard still there)
For what it's worth, i'd predict:
Ireland - Grand Slam
England, France - 3 wins each
Wales - 2 wins
Italy, Scotland - 1 win each
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Wilko has to start if at all possible. I like Tait and Farrell in the centre . Farrell has the rare quality of brains, braun and skill .I appreciate that his pace is not quite there but I can see good things happening around him . A back three of Lewsey , Robinson and Balshaw can run off Farrell and use the space that he and Tait can create with their different qualities. I would have Catt on the bench for insurance for 10-13.
I would start with Perry as his combination with Dan Ward-Smith at No.8 will be key and I also like Richards as an impact Sub .
Regardless of combinations, personnel and tactics we have to play to our strengths .
Players need reminding of why they have been picked !
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Charlie, Farrell has been in more high pressure situations and games than most of the other newer players put together. He was the youngest Great Britain ever!
I don't think he'll easily wilt under the pressure as you predict so freely.
Flood however, is another question.
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England's problems since Nov 2003 centre around all the links between No 8 and No 13. We do not have a world class scrum half who can provide very quick and accurate ball to a No10 who has sufficient vision to know when and how to put a number 12 into space; who himself plays with enough vision to find the support runners.
Everything in the past 2 years has been slow, over-rehearsed and completely lacking in spontaneity, with the result that wings and full backs have never really been given a chance to shine.
You could pick almost any combination from the premiership for numbers 13 to 15 that you want and be fairly sure they would finish off moves if only they were being put into space.
At half back I would pick Amor purely for his service and awareness of space and Wilkinson (yes, even before he has had a warm up game for Newcastle!)because he is by a mile the best fly half in England, and give Farrell at least 3 games at 12 before deciding if his undoubted distribution skills have adequately transferred to the Union code.
Add Tait at 13, Voyce at 14, Balshaw at 11 and Lewsey at 15 with Tindall on the bench and let them play with flair and spontaneity and you have a back line to trouble any in the World.
Now get the slower forwards out the way during open play!!
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I think we've all heard the same comments from the england camp, and from journalists over and over. About how england can play attacking rugby, about how certain players can make a difference. On the pitch is where england can improve, not in training. How many times did robinson say how well england had trained before being beaten that weekend! As a wales fan I've grown used to dissapointment, however wales recently have improved. We have good players and a mediocre coach, who if they came together can do good things. England have a coach that could be good or bad, mostly overhyped players who are in reality mediocre (tindall, balshaw, noon, cohen, white etc etc)but keep getting picked because of a mythical reputation. They need to show it on the pitch, and they need to stop relying on Wilkinsons constant comebacks. Find another no10, go on! get on with it!
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The back line may be the best available but, alas, it is far too slow. Tait is out of position - does he have any experience under the high ball, and Tindall works best when setting up ball for a rampant pack. When there's pressure on him to score tries and/or release the back three, he's not the same player.
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Rob you comments are spot on, along with a lot of other points raised. Firstly let's get back to basics, we need the forwards to focus on the breakdown, not trying to clog up the back line and secondly let's get the backs coming from deeper angles, and not worrying about selecting "plays" in advance and actually play with what is in front of them. Once we get back to and can play "basic rugby" then we can move forward. Farrell should be the first name on the team sheet, a brut of a man with the pace, guile and vision of a world class player. Tait has to play outside of him, Tindall's offload game is improving but I believe it is not going to provide us with enough chances to defeat world class teams - NZ, Ireland etc. The Farrell / Tait combination has the potential to become somthing incredible.
English rugby still has a huge amount to offer and in time (although not this year) we will reign supreme once again. Brian Ashton was my first choice and believe he will turn our fortunes around, however it will take time.
On a seperate but equally important issue for me, can Twickenham please sort out the number of corporate seats available, and allow genuine rugby fans to cheer (ala shed style) on the mighty rose legion. The fans will go if an atmosphere returns!
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I disagree Daniel. I think Tindall, Balshaw, Noon, Cohen and White are all widely criticised. Just look at 606 and all the people saying Simpson-Daniel should be starting.
As for another No. 10, Hodgson is injured, Goode is out of form and Olly Barkley is in the Saxons squad, mainly because he's been playing at 12. Tindall has been playing well, that's why he's been picked. I criticised Woodward's selection of Tindall pre-World Cup but now I think a Catt-Tindall combo is the best if looked at alone. (There other factors I will get onto later.) Catt is a creative force and Tindall can provide the bulk. If you're going to play Farrell, play him with Tait. It provides much more balance in the back line.
However, centres aren't the only players. Whoever plays at number ten is going to have to kick goals unless Farrell plays. It's a unique opportunity to play a green fly-half without the responsibility of kicking goals. Leave that to man with a not inconsiderable amount of experience in that area. Due to this kicking element, I would play:
Ellis, Flood, Balshaw, Farrell, Tait, Lewsey, Robinson.
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Englands problem in the years problem has been the over reliance on players that are past their best and simply in the squad by merit. Incidentally the same has been true of the football team but enough of that. There has been (at least until recently) a shocking ignorance of the young talent England have at their disposal, and the seemingly repeated problems have tended to be fixed by recalling an aged player from retirement, instead of letting the younger players learn from their mistakes (Tait in 2005 being a good example). There are some fantastic young players starting to make a name for themselves in the senior team, Ollie Smith having long been a favourite of mine, and it won't be long before the team turns its fortunes around. being Welsh I just hope its after the 6 nations ;-)
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Well i would kike to say wles won the six nation in 2005. Maybe they were not the best team but they won. When England won the worl Cupthey were not the best team but they won. So why are you slaging off the welsh??? I think england must start with Muke Catt as the have to have experiance in the 12 Shirt. look when walres played england in the world cup in 2003. The first half you were not in the game jonny wilkinson bottles it. Then you brought Mike catt on and he sterred in egland to the win. The same happen with New Zeland in the semi Final. Carols Spencer one of the best 10's in the world bottled it and New Zeland did'nt have a Mike Catt on the bench to win it for then. So you must start with Catt if not the Scotts will run over you. Andy Farrelis a very good Leauge player. But he has only played 10 or so games of Union. Jason Robinson played over 40 games before he gopt his first cap. Its a big jump from club rugby to internation leavel. I think France will win it with Ireland second then it will be the best of the rest. England were once a good team now they are just the same as everybody else second best to the ALL BLACKS.
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Ireland will win the six nations:
Why?
They are playing themselves down as underdogs: "No one can take the Grandslam", yea right, we all know that's exactly what they are thinking.
England: Yes, England have been playing laboured, boring, slow rugby. I will take an argument I have seen on here a bit further.
Take their solitary win against South Africa.
Lets be realistic please, and honest:
That South African team was made up of rookies, most of whom were younger than 23. Some of them had never even played together before. That was not a weakened Springbok team, that was not even a reserve team, it was a B-team, if we may give them that compliment.
So, while all the real Springboks were sitting at home during November, having there barbecues in the hot South African sun, these newbies were playing England.
Now the men in white made what some call a spirited comeback. A comeback? Had Jake White not made the tactical fluff by replacing James with Pretorious two thirds through the game, and had the Boks not arrogantly assumed the game was in the bag- England would never have won that game.
PLayers with flair like Frans Steyn made the English stand out for what they were: Flat-footed, lost individuals pretending to be a team.
I did not for one moment believe all the spin about a great morale in the camp. Come on.
England 2003: That was not the most talented rugby team in the tournament. But do you know why they deserved to be crowned best in the world? Because they were a team. They were a solid unit thinking as one, and they had a general at flyhalf who steered the ship.
Its too late for England to suddenly want to find, or build more skills. They have enough. But if they want to stop looking flat-footed and easy prey they have to become a unit once again.
Or else they will come fourth in the 6 nations, then be anihilated in South Africa, and then be knocked out at the first knock-out stage of the World Cup.
England can do better than that, they must do better than that.
That is my wish for England rugby: I want to once again see a team.
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Being a welsh man, I couldn't give 2 hoots about England and what their options are...all I know is that whilst us Celts, France and Italy all laugh mockingly at England, we need to beware the injured 'lion' so to speak. Nothing would please me more than to see England have another dismal campaign but I don't think that they can be taken lightly.
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9.Richards
10.Flood
11.Lewsey
12.Farrell
13.Tindall
14. Tait
15.Balshaw
These are having a pretty good season apart from Richards who missed the most obvious overlap against Sale at home. I just feel Richards is more attacking than Ellis. Ellis will probably get his chance but I think these players are the best avaliable.
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Balshaw instead of Robinson? Absolutely bonkers.
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Whenever I see a centre pairing with Tindall at inside it makes me cringe. At inside centre you need someone with some creativity. While tindall, noon and tait are all very good players, they are all 13s in internationa rugby. give farrell a go, he has a range of skills like no back in england. As well, don't play Lewis Moody or Joe Worsley at 7- we need a natural openside.
There is cause for optimism before the six nations- look how the english teams performed in the Heineken Cup at the weekend- phenomenal! Lets just play players in their natural positions, hit the rucks and mauls hard and not overcomplicate things in the backs.
My side for scotland:
1.Vickery (c) (play him in his best position- bring White on)
2.Chuter (now Thompson is out)
3.Payne/Freshwater
4.Grewcock
5.Deacon (would have had alex brown)
6.Moody/Worsley (too tough)
7.Rees
8.Ward-Smith
9.Ellis
10.Catt/Flood/Geraghty (very hard to decide)
11.Tait
12.Farrel
13.Tindall
14.Lewsey
15.Robinson
It's very hard to justify picking Flood or Geraghty as they have never shown a big game temperament, i do not understand why Brakley was not included. But no worries- Jonny will be back soon to kick us to glory.
BE OPTIMISTIC!
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Rodders !!! get a new keyboard
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I think that England have suffered from not picking an out and out 7 (well Robinson didn't). I know this is a backs debate but I thought that Lund played really well in Oz but was then dropped, any ideas why? Mr Robinson perhaps?
I agree with many contributors that Wilko should go straight into the team. He has been our best 10 ever. He is class. I still worry about scrum half. Ellis had a good day against Munster but has never delivered at international stage. Perry has been the best 9 for the past year. tindall's form seems to be improving and I know Ashton likes Catt. My pairing would definitely be Farrell at 12 and Tait at 13. This combination works on so many levels I think they have great attributes. Simpson Daniel can be a class player but is sometimes inconsistent. I think Balshaw is passed it. My team for Scotland would be. () for ideal team
9 Ellis (Perry)
10 Wilkinson
11 Robinson
12 Farrell
13 Tait
14 Balshaw (Simpson Daniel)
15 Lewsey
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im so glad to see jonno back to fitness he is a out standing player and glad to see him back
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My backline would be
9 RICHARDS
10 CATT
11 SIMPSON DANIEL
12 FARREL
13 TAIT
14 LEWSEY
15 BALSHAW
I dont rate Vicory at all, he ambles
around the field not doing much and seems to not be fit.Let Catt lead the side and put Phil on the bench.
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The fact is our wingers are afraid to run at oppositions' back lines. Josh Lewsey, being physically bigger and stronger, is harder to intimidate, and is thus more likely to use his pace on the flanks to try and hit teams on the break. Just my thoughts anyway.
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Well i know my 1st xv coach is an aussie backs coach and ive been told on a number of occasions my job as a backrower is to create quivck ball thats it. nearly every ball goes 2 10 and we attack all teh time form everywhere. fowrads not v big but agressive defense is all we prcatice along withs set pieces so we may not keep poesseion but we neevr concede and a small mistake by opposition and we attck and score.
so played 11 so far won 8 drawn 1 lost 2
okay stats if engalnd just play with some attacking belief and hard defnese they will win. it is coached as youth level trust me they can if teh coaches let them. i hope they are!!!!
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Sorry - have asked this before but nobody seems to be discussing it...
Who is going to kick goals for England??
Farrell? Flood?
(I think we can all agree that Wilkinson won't play so it won't be him)
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AS we approach this world cup year we have a great squad of players untried as a team- we all know we have the talent but the problem has been the application on the pitch, we freeze, we look nervous, we forget the basics but most of all i think we play like a team that does not believe in itself or really backs itself to win. My wish for this year is to build a TEAM. there are so many areas of the game we can be critical off, where we feel we are let down, what we need is our leaders to step up to the plate, and prove to us and to them why they wear that shirt we love so much- COME ON ENGLAND shows us the passion- thats all i ask
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Well personally i dont see why ashton has overlooked ben cohen nd chosen balshaw!!!! also the same with simpson daniel! nd if injury permits jason robinson has got to be a starter!
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Rugby is a complex game - thats why we love it and thats why NZ are the best in the world because only they have the depth of players who have learnt from a very young age when they were able to absorb complexity into their subconscious. Farrell, Robinson, Wilkinson and Lewsey are the exception in the English game. They have achieved a higher level through natural ability and more importantly sheer hard work and dedication. Englands forwards are good enough to win ball and create space against NZ and we have a few backs with the mental strength and ability to take their chances. Balshaw is not one of them, and while he is fallback England will be vulnerable. Is he Ashton's achilles heel?
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Surely England should play Neville at full-back and Rooney in the forwards?
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Alas and alac gentlemen guessers on the English team, I was on the tube recently and sat beside Brian Ashton and had a sneak preview of the team he has settled on, injuries permitting, whilst he was on the phone trying to talk Jason Leonard out of retirement. God is back. Jonny Wilkinson is where he belongs with the red rose emblazend on his chest. The man who steered us home in Aussie, this man is not just our best 10 ever he is our best player ever including Jonno and Richard Hill. Here is the team.
1. White
2. Thompson
3. Vickery
4. Grewcock
5. Palmer
6. Worsley
7. Moody
8. Ward-smith
9. Ellis
10. GOD
11. Lewsey
12. Farrel
13. Tindall
14. Tait
15. Robinson
Scotland be ready, very ready oh and one last thing Ward-Smith make that shirt yours.
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Excuse me to interupt the whole reverie of who is going to play where and how exactly Englands backline is going to get firing again, but...did you watch the Autumn internationals? To think that all of a sudden it's going to click is madness. Just because some of the players look good in the Premiership doesn't mean they're going to perform for England (eg Hodgson). It's not always about who plays where. The system is just as important.
I think England should concentrate on possesion, territory and points. Play a Munster style game to start with. Maybe in the second half's once you've battered the opposition, you can generate enough space so you're limited 3/4's can play in the backline.
I really don't want to hear the usual pre-hype and excitement from England fans this year. I've a feeling it's all going to end in tears...again.
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Rob thanks for the mention on the blog re: playing on the edge of ability. The reference is a tenuous plagarism of Dick Best the superb athletic coach who was the Olympic Elite athlete coach, and who lectured me at a Cricket Coaching forum. He stated that sportsmen/athletes can be grouped into two categories
a. Those who play/train in the valleys
b. Those play/train on the highest peaks and on those peaks on the very edge of the peak.
His excellent point was that those who train in the valley live in the comfort zone, content with their performance and just roll along doing what they always do and achieving moderate success.
Those who train on the peaks are constantly challenging themselves, never happy with performance but more importantly when they then play on the edge carrying out the extraodinary becomes the norm, playing the situation in front of them stable or not it has to be dealt with. When you are on the edge of your ability you can test that edge and move it to create higher levels of performance. In rugby terms Jason Robinson is an edge player Ian Balshaw is a valley player in my opinion.
But that said its a funny old game
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Hi Brendan - thanks for that. Interesting stuff.
Arm - I would say Flood will kick until Jonny is back. He does for Newcastle and nailed a clutch 45m penalty late on to beat Leicester 31-29 earlier this month, so his bottle seems ok.
Farrell might be a back-up option and has kicked for Sarries but is very much deputy to Glen Jackson at Vicarage Road.
But let us know if anyone else out there has a view on this.
By the way, keep your eyes on Leicester v Falcons today (Saturday) - Jonny is on the bench.
PS Woody - comedy genius!
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Some rather strange comments especially from our Welsh friend who can't spell. One thing is certain - Wales will not win a Grand Slam in 2007. Only Ireland and France are capable this year although I doubt that either will do it.
As for the Red Rose. The talent is available in spades but blighted by injuries through overplaying we seldom manage to get the best team out onto the pitch.
From Brian Ashton's current squad, my personal choice from out here in sunny Khartoum would be:
15 Tait
14 Robinson
13 Tindall
12 Farrel
11 Lewsey
10 Robinson (I know he has not played but he is class and I agree with Mike Catt. If he's fit, he plays!
9 Ellis
1 Vickery
2 Thompson
3 White
4 Palmer
5 Brown
6 Worsley
7 Rees (A future England Captain)
8 Ward-Smith
16 Richards
17 Catt
18 Balshaw
19 Moody
20 Corry (To cover Lock )
21 Freshwater
22 Chuter
Now let's get behind the current World Chapions. C'mon England!
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My worry for England is 6,7,8 and 9.
Worsley and Corry have both been clumsy in contact. Ellis has stuttered. It is no good focussing on the 5/8 if the good clean quick ball is not won. Lund may be able to clear the ball and get ahead as a genuine 7 but the rest of the back row are just not up to it. I hope I am wrong.
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A lot of talk here about aiming for 2007 world cup and not blooding the youngsters enough. I think Ashton- whilst not writing off Englands chances- is developing a younger squad to aim for 2011.
By having Catt, Wilkinson, Corry, Robinson (and to an extent Farrell) in the squad you have players who have been in the 'Pressure Oven' of internationals and a couple who, form depending, can help development for the next 3 years minimum and can show the younger members how things are, and steady nerves.
Worsley, Lewsey, Vickery and Wilkinson always play with their heart on their sleeve, not giving an inch, as does an on-form Tindall and Corry (who I personally feel his England form fell when he became a permanent Captain).
Not a brilliant team on paper, but we've never seen them in action. Back to basics are needed tomorrow, hammer the ball up then use the Ashton heads up game when the opportunities arise- for the past two seasons they've tried to force the game too much, and thus lost the ball (and the games).
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I think England need to more consistant with the squad and to an extent the team in tournaments especailly. I think Ellis and Richards should be the 9's,sorry i've just never been a Perry fan-I support Gloucester.This would be my back line
9. Ellis
10. Wilko
11. Robinson
12. Farrel
13. Tindall
14. Simpson-Daniel
15. Lewsey
Subs-Richards, Catt and Balshaw
Catt covers 10,12,13 Balshaw 11,14 and 15 and obviously Richards 9.
I think this also leaves the option to changethe form of attack. Lewsey is a direct physical runner where as Sin-Bad twists and turns which I think he uses best at 14. However if he wasn't effective Ian can go on at 15 and switch Josh to 11 giving more strength. Sorry to say but for me Catt and Richards would be there to cover injuries or have the last ten but no more nows JW is back the whole backs unit seems far more linked and in tune.
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