´óÏó´«Ã½

´óÏó´«Ã½.co.uk

A game of two halves

  • Francis Keogh
  • 23 Feb 07, 11:04 AM

ire_badge.gif eng_badge.gifWhite City, London - It’s the match Irish and English supporters have been waiting for –

As anticipation reaches fever pitch around Dublin with the arrival of the first batch of travelling fans, I am left with an awkward dilemma.

You see, and for some reason I’m slightly embarrassed to admit this, I support both sides. Yes, that’s both...

My parents, grandparents and those before them were all Irish (as far as we can tell – these family trees can get complicated!)

But I was born in England, went to school here and have an accent that owes more to Downtown Luton than Dun Laoghaire.

Cut me in half and you'll get red, white and blue; and green, white and gold; although probably not a great deal of either.

In the past, I have got round this sporting poser with what I like to call the Cop-out Solution – praying for a draw.

This seems somehow inappropriate for a match of such great significance.

So, I thought YOU could decide for me, having weighed up some random reasons for siding with one or the other (Feel free to add your own):


Reasons to support Ireland
For anyone with an ounce of Irish heritage, this is an occasion of rare significance. well before the France match.

Ireland deserve a break. That defeat to France a couple of weeks ago was hard to take. Victory looked like it was written in the stars.

The Fields of Athenry – there’s something about that song that just gets me every time. It walks all over Swing Low.

Reasons to support England
It arguably matters more for England. The Grand Slam is on, the World Cup is on, everything is back on if they win this one.

For once, England are the underdogs. In fact, they can be backed at 9-4 to win. That is a big price.

Jonny Wilkinson – There is something special about this man. His humility after a remarkable comeback at Twickenham was inspiring.

So, whaddya reckon? Anyone else in the same boat?

Should I put on my Plastic Paddy hat, venture to an Irish bar and sip some stout, or wear the red rose and down a pint of Spitfire at the Old Bull and Bush?

OR stay at home with my Ukrainian kitchen fitters, talk about football, and forget about it all...


Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 11:49 AM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Michael wrote:

My father is English, My Grandad Greek, but Im born bred and Irish Thru and thru.
I cant wait for this game, but im over confident about an Irish Victory although I dont think will Hammer England unless Wilko is out which I dont think he will be.
I was far more anxious before the French game as too many people were under estimating them and you never know what team is likely to turn up. They produced a performance which they always do against Ireland and played out of their skin and won in the final minute.
Saying that Ireland know what England have to offer, basic rugby no flare players bar wilko, if the Irish dont bottle it I cant see any other outcome then a Irih Win.

  • 2.
  • At 12:03 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Liam wrote:

Blood is thicker than water. You are part of the Irish diaspora.

Ireland first for me all the way. After years of being teased at an English school about supporting ireland there is no contest.

  • 3.
  • At 12:04 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • loafer steve wrote:

Just hope it's a great match and may the best team win. Put Rugby ahead of tribal passions.

  • 4.
  • At 12:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • The Phil wrote:

Perhaps you could learn that the colours of the Irish flag are Green, White and Orange before you claim that you bleed them to any extent? Just a thought!

  • 5.
  • At 12:16 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Michael McGuinness wrote:

As both of your parents are Irish you should definitely support Ireland.

I was born and bred in Ireland but my 2 boys and girl were born in England and have an English Mother. They will be supporting both sides and I wouldn't want it any other way. I just hope it is a memorable occasion in the home of Irish sport. The GAA are a fantastic organisation who deserve credit for opening their doors to other sports.

Come on Ireland

Michael McGuinness

  • 6.
  • At 12:20 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Eileen wrote:

I'd choose Ireland every time if I were you...

Their songs are better...

  • 7.
  • At 12:24 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Helen wrote:

Given where this match is taking place and the history behind it, if you really have to ask who you should support then I can't help you.

I would say that the majority of English supporters have no idea what happened in croke park in 1920. But then, the irish never forget their history... the english never remember theirs.

  • 8.
  • At 12:24 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • James Miller wrote:

Rather than watch the game dithering, follow the money - put a shedload on one side or the other. I find this sharpens the loyalties for the exact duration of the game. Incidentally, this is a very useful technique for making Grandstand interesting these days, where badminton and rallycross can evoke genuine passion.

  • 9.
  • At 12:31 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • brendan carey wrote:

I was there in 1973 when England travelled and I will never forget the reception as they came on the field at Lansdowne Road.
Let's hope it's every bit as passionate and sincere this time round !!

  • 10.
  • At 12:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Chewie wrote:

No question really! England. if you were born here then you are English.

My family are all Scottish but I was born and brought up here so very definitely support England.

Buck the trend as it seems to me that anyone with the smallest hint of anything else in them and suddenly they support that country as they are trying to deny the responsibilty that goes with being English.

its difficult being an England supporter as you get so much stick but in a way thats what makes winning so much more fun.

  • 11.
  • At 12:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • antaine wrote:

Follow your heart!
I am a proud Plastic Paddy too! and always follow Ireland.
I think it will be close, down to one score, as it has been in the last 4 meetings. Irish win: 19 points to 16.
Hopefully Jonny plays!

  • 12.
  • At 12:42 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paddy Flavin wrote:

I'm supporting England all the way despite being in a similar situation to you.
Whilst the last three generations of my family have been born in England, there is a hell of a lot of Irish blood in me flowing right back to Cork.
It was living in Bangor, North Wales that finally forced me off the fence and into only supporting England. The sheer hatred aimed at any Englander by the celts during the rugby owes nothing to sportsmanship and everything to stupid rivalries, history and a ridiculous inferiority complex.

  • 13.
  • At 12:43 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Francis Keogh wrote:

FAO James Miller

I should point out that Grandstand is no longer with us, and has gone to TV Heaven.

But I follow your general point - I see the draw is 25-1.

That couldn't happen, could it ;) ??

For The Phil - I was pulled up on the gold reference earlier, but am sticking to my proverbial guns. I've always been slightly colour-blind, and it's gold for me. Sorry, but I know what you're saying :)

  • 14.
  • At 12:44 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Anglo-Bok wrote:

I know exactly what you are going through. With and english mother and south african father, I was born in england but have sent half my life in england and half in south africa. This is a problem I have everytime England and south africa play. Generally I always support the team I consider (and the media consider) the underdogs. Though saying that, during the autumn internationals I varied my attire. Bok shirt with england hat etc for one game and england shirt and a hat with a springbok coming out of it for another game etc etc.
All I can say is lets hope that the game is as good a game as it promises to be and that the team that plays the best wins! ;-)

  • 15.
  • At 12:45 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Johnny wrote:

My friend we could probably debate about this matter for hours on the significance from one side to the other, at the end of day that’s all it is really! One line separating counties…But let’s banish the line for this tremendous occasion and stand shoulder to shoulder and enjoy this history making game….

Me personally I’ll be singing the Fields of Athenry!!


Follow your heart……………

And enjoy

  • 16.
  • At 12:45 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Brendan Regan wrote:

I see you are in a sticky situation, and one that I am exactly familar with. My advice would be in the words of Hannibal Lector 'look inside yourself' and see what you are, there is no shame in supporting England the country of your birth. You are what you are, so settle on one side and be happy. I am English and an avid supporter of English Rugby, but I am also a lover of anything green this maybe tricky for some, but it sits easy with me. Fortunately as we support a truely beautiful game there is no shame in just supporting the game itself and have a beer with both sets of fans, a chance not many other sports afford the neutral supporter no matter how confused. Good luck.

  • 17.
  • At 12:53 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Andy wrote:

I would say if you were born and brought up in a country then that should be the country you support first and foremost.

My dad's English, my mums Irish but I was born and brought up in Scotland so feel 100% scottish and would always support Scotland over anyone!

  • 18.
  • At 01:05 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Peter Lowe wrote:

Ireland, without a shadow of a doubt..:By virtue of the fact that although you were born in England, you don't automatically qualify for a British Passport.. Discovered this when I tried to get a passport for my kids, both of whom were born here.. either way, enjoy the game, choose green and enjoy the victory....

  • 19.
  • At 01:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Alan wrote:

if you're dithering, you don't understand what it is to be Irish!

  • 20.
  • At 01:14 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Neil Robertson wrote:

In terms of loyalty I always decide at half time then stick with that decision.

I have no Irish connections (other than drinking the occasional Guiness) so will be rooting for an away win at Croke Park.

When England played Scotland I stopped singing Flower of Scotland after 2o minutes and sang Swing Low Sweet Chariot for the rest of the game ... with actions!

  • 21.
  • At 01:18 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Emma Heffernan wrote:

Francis,

I believe I went to school with you any number of years ago in Hemel Hempstead? (It was the Luton bit that convinced me...)

No question - you HAVE to support Ireland!!!

I have spent many, many years arguing this point with people who believe that being born in London makes me English. My heart says otherwise - UP THE IRISH!!!

  • 22.
  • At 01:20 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paul wrote:

Home is where the heart is. If you were born and brought up somewhere it doensn't mean you feel part of the place. I'm from a Manchester Irish family and there's an equal split of loyalties (not many on the fence though)..

Remember just because a racehorse was born in the pig shed doesn't mean it isn't a horse...

  • 23.
  • At 01:21 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • kevin mc wrote:

I think it boils down to what you feel. I was born in England of Irish parents but have always felt more Irish than English. I have no problem with people with Irish parents supporting England but I don't think you choose which team to support. It's what is in your heart. Call me a plastic paddy if you like, but I took the stick when being Irish in Britain wasn't as 'cool' as it is now. C'mon Ireland I say (in my best scouse accent!)

  • 24.
  • At 01:22 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • David Cox wrote:

If you were a horse but born in a kennel would that make you a dog?

  • 25.
  • At 01:26 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • AF wrote:

Just because a dog is born in a barn you dont call it a horse do you?

Ireland all the way! ;-)

  • 26.
  • At 01:34 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paz wrote:

Born a rugby-loving Cornishman, mother's family Irish, paternal grandmother Scottish, it's Ireland for me. France was a disappointment, tomorrow will be different; tomorrow it's England and beating the English rugby team always seems that bit special.

  • 27.
  • At 01:39 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Mrs D'arcy wrote:

In relation to Phil’s comment- from a person who was born and bred in the Emerald Isle- the Tricolour is truly green, white and GOLD.

Great piece Francis but an understandable dilemma but I encourage you to be seen in green tomorrow!

  • 28.
  • At 01:42 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Chris wrote:

Helen,

Oh dear, is it really helpful to have a gratuitous dig at the English supporters? We should all respect history but we must not allow it to contol us.

One of the remarkable features of rugby history is the great spirit between English and Irish players and supporters - think of 1973 and the reception the English got then. We should salute tha GAA for their generosity and hope for a fantastic game.

  • 29.
  • At 01:43 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • wrote:

Interesting stuff. Born in Ireland,reared in England, lived in New York for 24 years. Ireland all the way. I used to fight with my London cousins over this when some of them followed the England football team. You know in your gut!

  • 30.
  • At 01:44 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • jimbo wrote:

in the same boat, father irish, mother english lived here all my life so definitly english supporter but will enjoy the craic with my dad and the black stuff with all the others and probably wont remember the result come sunday mornning anyway

  • 31.
  • At 01:47 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • wrote:

A great occasion and a chance to shine. England must play at pace with good support. Find the gaps for the fast men and make the tackles count. England can win this match in this wonderful stadium.

  • 32.
  • At 01:48 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Sean O'donovan wrote:

Your mum and dad clearly should have played more Irish music (particularly rebel songs) when you were growing up. Then there would be no doubt !

(it's a shame that Wayne Rooney's family didn't do this and then we wouldn't have lost him to the England team).

You do have to follow your heart - and if it leads to red and white so be it.

  • 33.
  • At 01:51 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • John Anderson wrote:

Anyone with Irish blood is Irish. It doesn't matter where you were born. If an English pitbull terrier was born in China - it is still regarded as an English pitbull. It is not a case of plastic anything but true heritage and roots. Irish people are proud of that if others aren't

So the answer is - Support Ireland!!

John

  • 34.
  • At 01:51 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Craig Moyes wrote:

Follow your heart is right. I was born England but have Scottish parents, Scottish Grandparents and on and on it goes back for generations. Nothing wrong with England, but I always always support Scotland.

Come to think of it I will be with the 'plastic paddies' supporting them against England. And your right the songs ARE better. Hearing 'Swing low....' is a great motivator for the opposition - really really awful.

  • 35.
  • At 01:55 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Sam wrote:

Yesterday in the Times newspaper, an advert saying, "78,000 Irishmen, 5000 English, come & make up the numbers". At the bottom of the advert, "corporate tickets from £499"! I don't see the numbers getting much more even!

  • 36.
  • At 01:55 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Mike G wrote:

What James Helm neglected to mention, when talking about "Bloody Sunday" in 1920 is that the day

"The day began with the assassination of 14 British agents (known as the Cairo gang) or their informants by the Irish Republican Army. "

Shoddy, biaised journalism. Shocking.

  • 37.
  • At 01:57 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paul Dornan wrote:

A mighty dilemma indeed sir, and one that as a pure bred London Irish Plastic Paddy I fret about too. Tmorow will be a night mare for us all either way. By the way, re the Athenry Song did you know the Irish have a new withering term to describe the new-found rugby friends, leaping on the bandwagon - The Low-Lies...

Have a great match one and all

  • 38.
  • At 01:57 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Alan Cullen wrote:

English by birth, Irish by the grace of god!!

  • 39.
  • At 01:58 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Kia Rose wrote:

A few years ago my three sons (all born in England, English father, Irish mother) were the only people in Sheffield Uni bar with green shirts. Ireland won and they had a great time.

Their reasons for supporting Ireland - it's more fun; the craic is better; the Irish emjoy successes more (don't happen quite as often as for England) and are not so intense in defeat, still find something to laugh about.

Re The Fields of Athenry etc, don't forget what GK Chesterton said
"The Irish are a strange race - all their wars are merry and all their songs are sad"

Hope tomorrow's "war" is a really merry occasion

  • 40.
  • At 01:59 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Vicky wrote:

Yep, I'm also torn. I was born in Ireland, brought up in England and have Irish/English/Scottish mixed parents. My heart says to support England but as I'm planning to watch the game in an Irish bar, it might be quietly.

  • 41.
  • At 02:00 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paddy wrote:

how about this for a dilemma:


Born Wales (Cardiff) and lived there for 2 years before preceding to live in England for 20 years upto now.

1/8 Scottish
3/8 English
1/2 Irish.

Who would you support? I could play for any country in UK!

My loyalty to Ireland is great, i get on very well with my dad who is from northern ireland but i've never lived there. I dont like the English arrogance and their Sun reading fans a great deal. The irish fans are far less fickle than the English and act with real humility.

  • 42.
  • At 02:04 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • stuart llew wrote:

In reply to The Phil concerning the colour of the flag, in numerous songs and poems, the colours are enumerated as "green, white and gold". Having "gold" in place of "orange" may variously be interpreted as simple poetic license, a throwback to the green and gold flag of nineteenth century nationalism, or a desire to downplay the symbolism of "green" Ireland being in harmony with Orangeism. - so now you know!

On a seperate note, I grew up in West Wales in the early 90s and had to endure years of taunts for being Irish! its great to be in charge now!!!

  • 43.
  • At 02:05 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Sean wrote:

Can anyone help me out? Born in Saudi Arabia to an Irish father (100%) and a half Irish/half English mother. Moved to Ireland aged 2, left aged 5, lived in Yorkshire ever since (aged 29)?

The Irish tell me my allegiance lies where my 'bread is buttered', the English tell me I’m Irish.

I’m not sure where anyone else feels my priorities should lie but I lean toward the green ... but ultimately we mongrels/hybrids can’t lose.

(I am also proud to be extremely thrifty and a lover of the black stuff)

  • 44.
  • At 02:08 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Gerry wrote:

No contest - go for Ireland every time.

As with a couple of others who have replied, I was born in England with Irish parents and an Irish heritage that goes back a very long way.

I was lucky enough to be at the Ireland France game the other week, fantastic stadium brilliant atmosphere, still struggle with the last two minutes! Really want to blame the ref for not allowing both Murphy and Horan to play on, but no I'll focus on a victory for Ireland tomorrow.

I've never had any doubts - always want England to win, as long as they are not playing Ireland. Not just rugby but any sport. Its a shame the Irish are poor at cricket - but then again after the Ashes, England clearly can't claim to be that good.

Its just a shame that Robinson is out tomorrow, even worse if Wilkinson is also injured, it would have made for a better game, but one that Ireland would have just edged. As it is I'm down thhe bookies to put my money on Irleand by 10 points.

  • 45.
  • At 02:08 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Kramer wrote:

No question - support the country of your birth...just a note to Brendan: Hannibal was referring to a storage shed with his "look inside yourself" advice. Should we then be looking for old flags, scarves, rattles and such stuff?

  • 46.
  • At 02:11 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • daniel wrote:

I am half Irish half English.
Although born and bred in Dublin.
I still have loyalties to both sides.
And there are percs to belonging to both tribes.
To be honest though, most of the time it is generally considered cooler to be Irish, not just by Irish people but probably by any other nation in the world other than England.
We are the true underdogs - we are the smaller nation that makes the bigger difference.
To quote from the film "The Commitments" - the Irish are like the blacks of Europe, so say it once and say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud..

  • 47.
  • At 02:13 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Andy wrote:

Helen (post 7)

I will bet you that virtually every England supporter knows what happened at Croke Park in 1920. If we didn't know before, it has been constantly referred to since before the start of the tournament. In my view this is only helping to stoke up any anti-English sentiment and provide fuel for the small minority of the generally superb Irish fans who want to cause ill-feeling. Let's talk less of the history and more of the game. Here's hoping for the spirit of 1973.

  • 48.
  • At 02:15 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • James H wrote:

I too am a plastic. The way i decide on who to support is to visit my family in Ireland and get verbally abused because of where i was born regardless of my parents nationality.

England all the way.

  • 49.
  • At 02:15 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Bernard wrote:

I find myself in the same situation, born in England of Irish parents. The way I see it is like this.....every ounce of blood that runs through my veins is green, regardless where I was born. I support Ireland in every sport but always have a soft spot for England and our celtic cousins in Wales and Scotland. I know who I am and more importantly where I'm from so I'm proud to embrace my Irish culture, a culture I understand for more than I do the English one. At the end of the day, it's only a sport and if you want to sit on the fence, feel free to sit there and enjoy an Irish victory.

  • 50.
  • At 02:16 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tull na Bhric wrote:

Please everyone, the colours of the Irish National flag, An Bhratach Náisiúnta, are not a matter of colour-blindness or interpretation. They are, in fact, green, white and orange. These colours represent the Nationalist (mainly Roman Catholic) majority (represented by green) and the Unionist (mainly Protestant) minority (represented by orange due to William of Orange) living together in peace (symbolised by the white band) in the Island of Ireland.

As for the match, I was born in Bristol, brought up in Galway, and have lived in Gloucester since I was 12, my Father was Irish, my Mother English as are my wife and all of my children. In all honesty I do not mind who wins as to have two nations in my heritage of such high prowess in the sport is an honour in itself. May Rugby win the day.

  • 51.
  • At 02:17 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Dom wrote:

You'll know when the game starts.

  • 52.
  • At 02:17 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Jason Dilworth wrote:

Just a thought... what colour is your passport, and what does it say as nationality?

Go with whichever one it says.

Jason

  • 53.
  • At 02:22 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Alex wrote:

Definitely Ireland. I was born in England AND my parents are English so it's easy for me, i have however lived in Scotland nearly all my life. Whilst I would support them second against any other team(there's not many Scots who you get to work the other way), in a England Scotland match i go england all the way...

  • 54.
  • At 02:24 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Rodney wrote:

Toss a coin before the game and be Irish one half and English the other. That way you could feel joy or abject misery on winning or losing both halfs! Its a poor idea but the best that can happen is that the game is fantastic, and the best team win. As a 100% Englishman, the Irish are the nation I dont mind losing to. They treat victory and defeat in the same way, enjoy your Saturday.

  • 55.
  • At 02:24 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Dan wrote:

I would just be happy with the fact that you can't actually lose.

I am a mongrel in terms of blood too, but I know who I support - deep down I think everyone does.

PS - amazing that the events of 1920 have been mentioned in this blog too!

  • 56.
  • At 02:25 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Bob wrote:

You are the sum of the parts of your parents so it shouldn't even be a question for you. You are Irish. You have Irish blood running through your veins. Where you are born and brought up is entirely situational and as far as I'm concerned people who go the other way are just weak and scared to be different to the people around them. I was born in England to Scottish parents and, despite the fact most of my friends are English, there has never been a doubt in my mind that I am Scottish. Be proud of your blood and your heritage and don't let anyone tell you different.

  • 57.
  • At 02:27 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • t Brennan wrote:

parents are irish,40 years born & bred in england, visited ireland 4 or 5 times , support ireland, no fooking way, england all the way.

  • 58.
  • At 02:28 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ronan wrote:

Irish parents, born in Scotland, lived my whole life in England. Who did I choose to support when I was a kid?

Well quite simply England weren't ever on the cards, with my parents it simply wasn’t an option. Ireland was pushed on me and I repelled. It might have been the vindictive streak in me, roughly aged 5, but I chose Scotland just to annoy my parents… in fairness they didn’t really mind because at least I wasn’t supporting England.

On Saturday I will of course be supporting Ireland, if not only so I can smirk at my friends in the pub when Ireland put 30+ points past the men in white.

  • 59.
  • At 02:30 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • AQ wrote:

I'm from Jersey in the Channel Islands. I was born here so I'm certainly not English, especially as both my folks are Irish and I was brought up in a typical Irish family i.e. Dad was always right and Mum is always making tea like Mrs Doyle off Father Ted and I was mainly fed boiled bacon and cabbage. I agree with AF however it's not the view of many Irish-born people living over here when St Patrick's Day comes around. I'm British according to them or a Plastic Paddy. How do people feel about the Plastic Paddy thing, a bit of fun or derogatory?

  • 60.
  • At 02:30 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Kiwi in Soccer Land wrote:

Not a hard choice really! You should be supporting, unfortunate but that's where you were born. Be PROUD!

  • 61.
  • At 02:32 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • james mchale wrote:

Follow your heart man - this is Rugby Union Football. If you have to think about it you'll never decide. Speaking of better songs, 'tis true the english supporters have little to sing with, but it's not the English fault. Blame the monarchy for the droning, selfish anthem we're forced to cringe through (since when was a national anthem about one person?). Lets get Land of Hope and Glory or Jerusalem bellowing out, followed by every verse of 'swing low' - that might provide some inspiration in the terraces and on the turf, and perhaps we'll experience a little of the pride our celtic brothers enjoy in abundance.

  • 62.
  • At 02:32 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Michael McLaughlin wrote:

I am going to give you my 10 cents worth. I was born in West London to two Irish parents. There is no way on earth that I could have supported England as I would have felt that I was disrespecting them and the countrys history. Let's remember that the reason that they migrated to the UK was because of the Economic problems caused by British Rule and the fact that they were so close to the border with Northern Ireland there was no chance of Economic revival in the Sixties and Seventies. Thank God that has changed now.

I get grief fron Irish and British people for supporting Ireland but you have to follow your heart. I couldn't support both countries and have been to many rugby and football matches supporting Ireland.

I will leave you with a George Bernard Shaw quote; "If a man is born in a stable it doesn't make him a horse"

  • 63.
  • At 02:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • patrick atkins wrote:

Why the choice - follow your heart! You didn't have a choice of where you were born and your heritage was already there.

I have a similar background but have no problems where my loyalties are. It's IRELAND every time.

Enjoy the Guinness, enjoy the match and when the boys win you can look forward to St Paddy's day and the next installment of Guinness and rugby with a smile.

Ireland to win by 10+

  • 64.
  • At 02:34 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • D wrote:

picture this....last minute of the game, Ireland are losing by 1 and they are awarded a penalty. do you want it to go over? yes or no? answer that and you'll know who you should support. If you say you don't mind or that you couldn't make up your mind then your not being honest!!!

  • 65.
  • At 02:34 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Juqsy Fitz wrote:

I agree completely with the sentiments of the horse/kennel quote. The country you are born in is irrelevant. Having IRA songs sung at me when in Ireland because of my English accent isn't pleasant, but I am proud of my plastic paddy ways and intend to show this in central London on saturday evening!!

  • 66.
  • At 02:34 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tony T wrote:

I think this is a bit of a swizz Francis - you know exactly who you will be supporting and I think it is probably the home team this weekend.

As has been posted earlier - if you don't know the answer to a question like this, you should flick the switch and look for the snooker on another channel.

I'm English, with an Irish wife, living in Scotland, have strong affinities with the Celts but not when England are playing rugby.

Genuinely worried about this weekend, you get the feeling that the whole of the nation will demand an Irish victory !

C'mon the Lilywhites

  • 67.
  • At 02:35 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Murdo wrote:

Mate,
If I were you and I had any excuse not to support the English I wouldn't! What is the fun in supporting them anyway, Ireland have passion, great songs and the history which goes with Croke Park! England have the world's worst songs and Johnny Wilkinson YAWN
Go with your heart and support the Emerald Isle!

A Scot

  • 68.
  • At 02:37 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paul Robinson wrote:

With pure Irish logic, I'd have a couple of quid each-way !

(Grannie was from Waterford, Grandad from EastHam)

  • 69.
  • At 02:38 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Alasdair wrote:

Support England first as thats were you were born and bred.
My Father is Scottish and my mother English of Scottish descent so
I used to waiver over whether I should support Scotland first but my mind was made up by the anti-english comments I faced up north when "fellow" scots heard my accent,
and found I also supported England

Good on Shane Geraghty of London Irish, Both parents are from Dublin but he was born and bred in England and has chose England

  • 70.
  • At 02:38 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • oliver brett wrote:

My stepson has an Italian father, a Portuguese mother, was born in England and has lived in London all his life and...

fervently supports France in football and Pakistan in cricket.

  • 71.
  • At 02:39 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • NeillDuffe wrote:

I was born in Ireland. My entire family is irish. but i have lived in England since i was 4. Public School educated. Durham university graduated. the Phrase most english person i have ever met is bandied about alot by people who meet me use. But Put me infront of an Ireland Rugby/football/swimming whatever match against England and a vicious sectarian side the most wouldn't expect comes out. Supporting Ireland is a vocation. As is supporting England. By not knowing which you just bring shame to yourself and those associated with you. Make a chioce and stick to it. I would go for Ireland because blood is thicker than a post code.

  • 72.
  • At 02:45 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Jamie wrote:

I was born in Ireland to Irish parents but moved to England when I was nearly 10.

Although we speak the same language, Ireland as a people are further apart from England than say the Spanish & the Irish, who have much more in common in terms of family values and the way we relate to eachother. Whether we are practising or not strong Christian values are important or latent to the way people in Ireland operate.

If Ireland's culture is eroding it is where these strong Christian values are given second place to creeping political correctness or tolerance of lesser modern behaviours, business agressiveness and property and material obsession.

Never really felt at home in England despite going to public school & university here. Always wore my colours and heart on my sleeve.

I respect England & Britain but it is and always will be Ireland for me. In fact I think I will move back there if I can in the next few years.

  • 73.
  • At 02:47 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • MICHAEL wrote:

Wish Shane Geraghty had asked my opinion!

Go for the 'LAND. Green white and gold for ever!

go n-eiri leat!

  • 74.
  • At 02:47 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • andy fallon wrote:

support the team that you want to. either way you won't be downhearted

  • 75.
  • At 02:50 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • PETER wrote:

BORN IN MANCHESTER, IRISH PARENTS. I AM MOST DEFINITELY IRISH, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE. IRELAND TO WIN BY 4 POINTS!

  • 76.
  • At 02:55 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Russell Burnett wrote:

I am a plastic paddy and proud of my heritage. I think being red headed I am entitled to seize the honour of a Celtic past.

The game this weekend cannot fail but to be an epic.

Bit concerned about the Ellis/ Stringer head to head after the way Ellis played against Munster. But the little imp usually comes up trumps.

I think the English will be pleased that Neil Best is not playing, although hopefully EOS is planning to use his as a literal "impact player".

By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Michael they are taking you away
For you stole Trevelyn's corn
So the young might see the morn
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay

Low lie the fields of Athenry
Where once we watched the small free birds fly
Our love was on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry

Bring it on! I think if Ireland's front row compete then the game will be won by the genius in midfield.

  • 77.
  • At 02:58 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • mh wrote:

I'd stay and chat to the kitchen fitters and discuss Andrei Shevchenko. Might be quite entertaining?

  • 78.
  • At 03:02 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Michael O'Irish wrote:

thats easy, get your shamrock and your guinness ready for the green army rolling through croke park.

  • 79.
  • At 03:02 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • MR wrote:

I'm born Welsh, but to an almost entirely English family (one Welsh grandmother, so technically my English-born and raised father is more Welsh than me). I seem to be in the minority in favouring my country of birth over family heratige. I was born and raised Welsh, always lived here, love it here, wouldn't have had it any other way. People keep telling me I should be English, but I don't see why. I don't care where my blood came from, It's not where I'm from. I just feel Welsh, it's that simple.

But plenty of others, probably the majority in my experience, favour their heratige, and that's fine. It's all about what you feel. Either you feel Irish, or you feel English. It shouldn't be a consious decision, it should just come naturally. You must have felt something at past results, just a hint of joy or depression one way or the other.

If it doesn't come naturally, I like the idea of betting or one or the other, that'd probably generate some temporary loyalty at least.

Or you could just cop out again and gun for a draw...

  • 80.
  • At 03:04 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Michael wrote:

Im in the same situation. My mother is irish (with irish parents) my dad is english (with an english dad and scottish mother), i was born in england. I always support both england and ireland yet i get stick from my mates saying 'you cant support both, you have to choose!'.

Well im not choosing as usual, lets just say i will be happy whatever the result. (if eire had beaten france i would of secretly opted for them as they havent won a grand slam for many years yet the french ruined it! ;-(

  • 81.
  • At 03:05 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • mikebee wrote:

Your parents are from Ireland; you are from England

Look forward to where you are going, not back to where your ancestors came from

Embrace the country of your birth and residence; integrate fully

Finally, if you should have family, do not pass on your feelings of confused nationality and divided loyality to them

  • 82.
  • At 03:06 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • MR wrote:

I'm born Welsh, but to an almost entirely English family (one Welsh grandmother, so technically my English-born and raised father is more Welsh than me). I seem to be in the minority in favouring my country of birth over family heratige. I was born and raised Welsh, always lived here, love it here, wouldn't have had it any other way. People keep telling me I should be English, but I don't see why. I don't care where my blood came from, It's not where I'm from. I just feel Welsh, it's that simple.

But plenty of others, probably the majority in my experience, favour their heratige, and that's fine. It's all about what you feel. Either you feel Irish, or you feel English. It shouldn't be a consious decision, it should just come naturally. You must have felt something at past results, just a hint of joy or depression one way or the other.

If it doesn't come naturally, I like the idea of betting or one or the other, that'd probably generate some temporary loyalty at least.

Or you could just cop out again and gun for a draw...

  • 83.
  • At 03:07 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Donal wrote:

As an Irishman who has lived in England for 20 years, I say : you should support England. The fact that your parents are Irish doesn't make you Irish.

  • 84.
  • At 03:09 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paul Smith wrote:

As an Englishman, with an Irish wife(who generally takes no interest in sport unless playing England),and half irish son.I will be hoping England do not get beaten too badly,and that everyone enjoys the criaq.Oh and Helen move on.

  • 85.
  • At 03:11 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Jim Reynolds wrote:

It has to be Ireland for your support. Apart from the better songs with both parents being Irish there's no decision to be made. I know between England and Ireland it's pretty easy to get either passport, I've had both in the past for various reasons but here's the point...I have two sons, one born in Holland and the other in Bulgaria....as my wife and I are both Irish neither son IS ALLOWED have the passport from the country they were born and lived in....so blood is thicker.....c'mon Ireland!

  • 86.
  • At 03:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ratty wrote:

I suppose all those people supporting Manchester United should be supporting....... now what team is there in Surrey???

  • 87.
  • At 03:13 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Marlon wrote:

support Wales

  • 88.
  • At 03:13 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Realist wrote:

So everyone born in England to non English parents aren't English. That could be an interesting view re racial harmony.

Born in England to Scottish and US parents, grandparents Irish and Scottish one of whom played for Leinster in the late 40s. England all the way, less bitter people generally and much less of a chip on their shoulder.

If your English born and raised and support another team then your head needs looking at.

P.s. Scotland and USA are always my second team, and previously the Irish were 3rd, but their cockiness and the dubious historical perspective permeating this year has seen them slide somewhat.

  • 89.
  • At 03:15 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Andrew Dobrowolski wrote:

having a similar problem as your self, i'm part polish english and welsh i can sympthise with your dilemma however i usually support England against anyone else as this is where i was born and bred, i support the welsh and polish against anyone else though.

However as a bush boy i'd recommend you go to the White Horse instead of the Old Bull & Bush as it has a better atmosphere

  • 90.
  • At 03:16 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Spanishben wrote:

To Helen's comment about the English not knowing their history - i think you're completely wrong and all of the English i've spoken to about the game/it's significance are totally aware of the history and quite muted on the subject. The English players have spoken at length about the priveledge of playing this match. My father and that side of the family are Irish and i'm English. Two small and relatively insignificant nations playing a minor sport in a venue of even more minor sports. Let's just enjoy what should be a decent match because there is no room for chauvinism from either side.

  • 91.
  • At 03:18 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • mabster wrote:

I was born in England with Welsh parents. I love Wales and the Welsh but my first loyalty is always to England. At the end of the day you are what you feel inside.

  • 92.
  • At 03:20 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Dermot wrote:

The one I like to use to explain my situation i.e. born in England to Irish parents, "If you're born in a born does it make you you a donkey?" Plastic and proud. Come on the boys in green!!!

  • 93.
  • At 03:25 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • JT wrote:

Surely the whole point of a loyalty is that it is to YOUR place of birth not your great grand father's twice removed cousin.

Manchester Irish?
London Irish?
New York Irish?

Irish is Irish if you were born anywhere else you're not Irish.

I was born in England, brought up in England and will never support anyone else. To all those who switch the allegiance. Its just a pity you don't understand what it really means to be English.

  • 94.
  • At 03:26 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • JT wrote:

Surely the whole point of a loyalty is that it is to YOUR place of birth not your great grand father's twice removed cousin.

Manchester Irish?
London Irish?
New York Irish?

Irish is Irish if you were born anywhere else you're not Irish.

I was born in England, brought up in England and will never support anyone else. To all those who switch the allegiance. Its just a pity you don't understand what it really means to be English.

  • 95.
  • At 03:28 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • MAZZA wrote:

I live in wales and am a supporter of the blues with a season ticket. Married to a welshman. I just hope and pray England give a good display of rugby and beat the bachsides off all the other including Wales.

COME ON ENGLAND

  • 96.
  • At 03:29 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Russell Plunkett wrote:

Your home nation is exactly that, home. If you were born and bred in England then you should wear the rose! I am an England man through and through, even though the name and ginger beard say otherwise!

(also, the underdog factor should play a part here, the celts have been playing that card for years, maybe its Englands turn!)

  • 97.
  • At 03:30 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Neil wrote:

These kinds of questions leave me bemused. If all your antecedents are Irish then how can you even question where your loyalties lie?

I am born and bred English so will be cheering as loudly for the boys in white as I am sure you will be (if you are honest with yourself) for the lads in green.

What does always bring a smile to my face about scenarios like this is how it unearths all these comical assertions that being Irish means more to an individual than being English does (or any other nationality for that matter).

Just so you know, there is no ownership of national pride. We all have it in equal share I suspect. That's what makes games like tomorrow exciting isn't it?

Oh and by the way. To the person who had a crack about English not knowing their history, I have just asked 3 of my Irish colleagues and they didn't even know who Hogan was!

  • 98.
  • At 03:32 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Iain M wrote:

Don't let your head decide, leave it to your heart.
As you watch the match you will know which side you want to win when the scoring starts... and wherever you're watching don't let those around you influence you!

  • 99.
  • At 03:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • dermot wrote:

as Marlon said, Support Wales..

  • 100.
  • At 03:34 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • James D wrote:

You were born in England, rasised in England, and sound English... erm you are English. I can't understand why anyone with Irish heritage supports Ireland - when they are not Irish! Does that mean I should support Germany, even though I was born an brought up in England - but have a German father. Ireland can't be worth supporting if an 1/8th of their population live in England...

  • 101.
  • At 03:36 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Kieran wrote:

i agree with one of the earlier guys, if ur dithering theres no point in supporting n e 1. im am from luton myself, where there is a large population of irish within the town, most of my m8s hav irish heritage n so did 90% of my school that i went 2. people hav a choice whether or not they can call themsleves english or irish, its wot u feel and wot culture you've grown up in. "If ur born in england, ur english" wot a load of rubbish. its wot u feel apart of, sum ppl mite feel more english than others, ive got no feeling for the english at all and will b gunning for an irish victory at croker 2mora

  • 102.
  • At 03:39 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Peter McGovern wrote:

English by birth - Munster by the grace of God!

  • 103.
  • At 03:41 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • mabster wrote:

I was born in England with Welsh parents. I love Wales and the Welsh but my first loyalty is always to England. At the end of the day you are what you feel inside.

  • 104.
  • At 03:41 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • dermot wrote:

as Marlon said, Support Wales..

  • 105.
  • At 03:41 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Colette wrote:

I never have any qualms about supporting Ireland in any sporting event - my ancestors are all Irish while I'm a South London girl born and bred. So I shall be rooting in a dignified manner for Ireland tomorrow while my husband (English through and through) screams at the TV willing England to do a better job than they will be doing!

  • 106.
  • At 03:42 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Jack wrote:

Dogs being born in stables will never make them horses; dogs and horses are different species. Where a particular animal is born has no bearing on what species it is.

However, nationalities are defined by where things come from. A doberman that was born in a stable in Scotland would not be a Scottish horse, although it could be called a Scottish dog.

If you take the 'dog born in a stable' argument to it's logical conclusion then the England vs. Ireland match is the equivalent of greyhounds racing in the Grand National.

If you are born in England then you are English - I have never understood people who consider themselves to be half Irish and half Scottish because their mother and father come from Scotland and Ireland. What part of you is dependant upon YOUR circumstances? None, according to some people.

Even if you are English (without any ancestors from any other part of the world except England) you are still free to support whatever team you want. Even Ireland. That is because we have free will. If that means dressing up like a leprechaun with a stupid foam hat that looks like a pint of Guiness then so be it.

  • 107.
  • At 03:43 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tommy wrote:

I HOPE ITS ONLY THE RESULT OF THIS GREAT MATCH THAT MAKES THE NEWS BEING IRISH I HOPE IRELAND DO WIN BUT SURE THERES ALWAYS NEXT YEAR THANK GOD ITS NOT A SONG CONTEST

  • 108.
  • At 03:44 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Eoin wrote:

I am Irish living in England and when England plays football against any non celtic side (excluding northern ireland) i support England 100%. The English players are ones i know and recognise from the premiership and give me such enjoyment week in week out, so i am obligated too support them on an international stage.It does not make me question myself or my loyalties because of the past, i am confident in my Irishness. The fact that you have these questions about your divided loyalties for the upcoming rugby match convinces me that you should support your real country, England

  • 109.
  • At 03:44 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Francis Keogh wrote:

Thanks for all the comments

My favourites have included:

"Who cares?" and "Support Wales"

And Emma, nice to hear from you, hope all is well :)

By the way, you'll love this - my surname, Keogh.

I say Kee-o in England; and a different pronunciation in Ireland.

I would tell you exactly what it was if I could spell it, but it's kind of like Quiao.

Funny old world.

  • 110.
  • At 03:45 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • dermot wrote:

as Marlon said, Support Wales..

  • 111.
  • At 03:47 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • TOMMY BYRNE wrote:

I HOPE ITS ONLY THE RESULT OF THIS GREAT MATCH THAT MAKES THE NEWS BEING IRISH I HOPE IRELAND DO WIN BUT SURE THERES ALWAYS NEXT YEAR THANK GOD ITS NOT A SONG CONTEST

  • 112.
  • At 03:48 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Pete the not so Greek wrote:

if you were born here, then be what you really are, english. my dad was a greek cypriot and mum was english, i'm never gonna support greece or cyprus ever, i'm english. so despite the romantic side of being irish pulling your heart. face it your english really. have the faith to support the team your country of birth is. and really if you had some knowledge of what happen'ed at croke park you'd know how that real history is being made tomorrow, almost as important as the match at landsdowne in 1973

  • 113.
  • At 03:52 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Paul wrote:

Re No.5
Both my parents are Irish but i was born and bred in England and am definitely supporting England.I will be watching alongside English and Irish people.

  • 114.
  • At 03:59 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Dragon wrote:
Surely the whole point of loyalty is that it is to YOUR place of birth

Just because I was born in a stable doesn't make me a horse.

  • 115.
  • At 04:01 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Bob wrote:

Anyone who 'doesn't really know' who to support is clearly English and should support England. A Celt KNOWS when they are a Celt - they can feel it in their bones.

  • 116.
  • At 04:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • anne wrote:

I will be wearing green on saturday, and hubby will be wearing white. The daughter of an English father and Irish mother, I have just returned to England after 7 great years living in Ireland. Big up the GAA for opening their fantastic stadium for foreign sports. Cant wait for this great game to start.

  • 117.
  • At 04:19 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Bob wrote:

To Neil (no. 96), how can anyone not know who Hogan was?! His epic battles with the Ultimate Warrior in the 80s must surely stick in the mind of any self-respecting sports fan.

  • 118.
  • At 04:29 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • net tomas wrote:

im a real mongrel as far as family is concerned

1/2 irish
1/4 polish
1/4 italian

although i was born and bred in england, i've always felt much more at home in ireland

cant wait to see the boys in green give england the thrashing they deserve!

COME ON IRELAND!!

  • 119.
  • At 04:30 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Liam wrote:

Lancashire born of parents from Co.Mayo and every generation as far back as can be traced. Ireland all the way. As someone else has said,if you are dithering, you ain't Irish. A sense of Irishness exists deep in the heart and soul. You either feel it or you don't. It's not a matter of choice.

  • 120.
  • At 04:32 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Broxibear wrote:

What about Issac Boss... kiwi parents born in NZ. Who should he support?
Mind you the big tinker on the wing makes up for him...... he's more Irish than blight.

  • 121.
  • At 04:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Mick wrote:

I understand where you are coming from, but to be honest, I am not sure I believe you. Unless you are a child prodigy, this situation has happened before and you took a call on it. I like it as a debate though...

I am Irish. My father is from Munster and my mother from Ulster. I live and always have done, in Leinster. I support Munster and Ulster in every game they play, except when they play Leinster.

I think your roots shape you, but your surrounds define you. You are both Irish and English, but I think you have lived as an English man as I have a Leinster man, regardless of heritage.

Looking forward to the game...

  • 122.
  • At 04:37 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Matthew Blackwell wrote:

The greatest Englishman of all time - Arthur Wellesley was born in Ireland and once remarked "birth in a stable did not make a man a horse".

You should know how strong a connection you feel to each country and I would use that to decide which team to support. If you can't decide; be neutral (although that might make you swiss...)

From traveling I have been subjected to a fair amount of sporting abuse for being English and as was noted above - it makes it more satisfying when we win!

Although English; I always support the home nations (and Ireland) when they play other nations - unfortunately this is rarely reciprocated.

Hopefully the occasion will bring together the two sets of fans; sport is meant to unite, not divide - that is what war is for.

  • 123.
  • At 04:39 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Chris wrote:

My Mum is French, my Dad is Irish, both my sister and I were born in England. I support England for sporting events.

What gets confusing is when Ireland play France who should I support then??? Well I go for France generally and my sister Ireland so it evens itself out.

What's added to the confusion is that my sister is getting married to a Welshman!

The six nations is always interesting in our house!!

  • 124.
  • At 04:41 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ron Valente wrote:

My great grandparents came from Italy to Ireland, then two generations later my Father moved to England where I was born, try supporting all three countries!!!!

( very mixed emotions )

  • 125.
  • At 04:41 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Stephen wrote:

Just look at Amir Khan. A Englishman who has represented his country but who is proud of his links to Pakistan. People here really respect him ( and his parents ) for getting that balance, whereas people view Owen Hargreaves claim to Englishness with a bit of suspiciousnes.
OK his Dad may come from Lancashire but he was raised in Canada, his memory's are of Dollars and Mounties, not Pounds and Bobbies.

If I asked Owen if he likes a split from the chippy, he wouldn't have a clue but Amir would know exactly what I was on about. Although Owen may have the anglosaxon looks and name, England made Amir in a million different ways that Qwen has never had.
That's what nationality is about.

  • 126.
  • At 04:43 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Thomas Dadds wrote:

Mate you should definitly support England on Saturday, this is because the Irish hog the national anthems ''they have two''

No you should actually support England because they are the underdogs and therefore you would be a glory seeker supporting Ireland ''never thought I would ever be saying that''

Also another reason for supporting England is that if England they could still have a great chance of wining the Six Nations, but if support Ireland and the Irish loose ''ITS ALL OVER''

Then ofcourse theirs the reverse of what I have just said, so lets not go their, as im english and not Irish!

Ofcourse in the end its your choice!

WE HAVE WILKO, WE HAVE WILKO, WE HAVE WILKO!

  • 127.
  • At 04:48 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Brendan O'Shea wrote:


I too appreciate the historical significance and, although I despise all that the GAA and rabid nationalists stand for, I can't help thinking there was something noble about the simple gesture of banning all but Gaelic games from the hallowed ground in response to the atrocity. However, history should teach us that to cure the ills of any time that generation must look forward not back. So opening Croke Park to games of English origin is a huge step forward and is to be applauded. Let us hope the match is a fitting tribute to the occasion and that it becomes the story.

I doubt those that fell there all those years ago, men of sport, would want anything other than a true contest. So let both sides do their worst, and may the best team win!

  • 128.
  • At 04:48 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Dai wrote:

My son and his wife are both born and bred Welsh but my son's job took them to Scotland to live. When my daughter-in-law was pregnant they contemplated returning to Wales for the birth, so that the twins could be born Welsh. However, they left it very late and decided to stay put just in case the twins were born in transit (England). I can live with them being Scotish if that is what they decide. Follow your heart!

  • 129.
  • At 04:50 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Stephen wrote:

To No 47.
Do you think black people ever say.."We're the Irish of the America's"? Mind you after the treatment that was meted out, during the civil rights marches, by the Irish Disporia, in the Chicago PD and the NYPD...I'd doubt it.

  • 130.
  • At 04:57 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • john v gallagher wrote:

use your heart not your head,
if you have to think about it,
your english. lets hope for a
game to remember, for the
right reasons

  • 131.
  • At 05:00 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Justin wrote:

Michael's use earlier in the forum of the term "eire" clearly indicates which side of the fence he is actually on. In a typically Irsh way, it is the formal name for the country but is totally ignored by the Irish. I have only ever heard the term used in conversation in England. Hope Wilkinson is fit to play to add to the occasion - would be relieved if he isn't! Ireland by 10

  • 132.
  • At 05:02 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • FatB wrote:

Same situation for myself... Born Irish and living in france for 20 years... but there's not a bit of doubt to where the heart is..."C'mon lads! Up the field and face the ball!"

  • 133.
  • At 05:08 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Greg Yates wrote:

It's easy really - You always support England when they are playing. My mate with Irish parents does. You then support Ireland against anyone else. You support UK and Irish teams against the others. You support any Northern Hemisphere team against Southern Hemisphere (even though my cousin is Australian!)- however I am never quite sure what to do when Ireland play Wales/Scotland. You could do a doctorate on this.

  • 134.
  • At 05:09 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Euan Millar wrote:

who says you have to support anyone? just enjoy the game. im scottish, have irish friends and relatives but also have english friends and relatives, so i dont really give a dam! but...i cant stand jeremy guscott and john inverdale and their reactions after an english defeat (especially if it is unexpected - remember scotland vs england LAST year?) is always something that cheers me up.

  • 135.
  • At 05:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Bob wrote:

Jack (109), I'm afraid you are wrong. Dobermans are German.

And by your reckoning, someone who is born to Irish parents while they are on holiday for a week in Ghana is therefore Ghanaian. Wrong again.

And, despite the fact I'm not Irish OR English, I'd still far rather dress up as a Leprechaun than a Morris Dancer.

  • 136.
  • At 05:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • laurie wrote:

honestly, im sick of hearing people claiming a sense of "nationality" from their grandparents or parents.

look at where YOU were born, which culture you have grown up in, where you feel comfortable and able to be yourself.

thats your home.

For me, my family goes back at least 700 years to the Celtic nations - Scotland and Ireland. However, the past 3 generations or so of my family are all English. Im proud of my family and our history. Im not dissmissing that at all. I support England, and am extremely proud of being English. I know this is going to get me a lot of flack for saying Im a patriotic Englishman, because that has seemingly been outlawed as of late. I dont know why, and honestly, I dont care.

Swing low.....

  • 137.
  • At 05:17 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Euan Millar wrote:

to eileen at 6.

yes indeed. the irish songs are better.

  • 138.
  • At 05:18 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tom K wrote:

On a similar note to a few other posts... The 'great' Duke of Wellington was born in Dublin. He was once asked by a journalist did that mean he was Irish and his reply was "If I was born in a stable would you call me a horse?". Tell everyone you meet that you're proud to be a Plastic Paddy (as I am) and bask in a glorious victory tomorrow!!

  • 139.
  • At 05:19 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tim Fogarty wrote:

To No. 129

I think it's preposterous to equate the GAA and "rabid nationalists" as standing for the same thing. Mr O'Shea might consider that the vast majority of GAA members are "men of sport" and not violence just like those who died in Croke Park.

Let's forget all this politcial rubbish and look forward to a great occasion, a great match and of course an Ireland victory!

  • 140.
  • At 05:20 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • DEC KEELY wrote:

From and living in Dublin. Haven't seen much on the UK news about the storey, probably just because I missed it. Most of the people I have spoken to here, couldn't care less if the English anthum is played or not. It's never been a problem at any other match. What the problem is, is that the game is being played in a stadium (Croke Park) which up untill very recently, the stadium was used for Irish football and hurling exclusively. The stadium where the rugby is usually played (Landsdown Road) is being rebuilt. What's so contraversial about this game is that Croke Park has a historical connection. In 1920, a number of players were shot dead by British Troops in Croke Park for no apperant reason and it's difficult for people to forget this. I have been taking a close look as to who exactly is complaining about this game. It's mainly people in their 70's and older who were born in and around that time, when the Country was in a poor state. The 20,30,40 and 50 year olds don't realy care! In their mind it is in the past and it should remain there. Forgive me, but I think no matter where the English play, it always attracts a little more attention. Mostly because of what happens before and after the game. I think if the English fans who come over behave themselves they will be more than welcome and will have a great time. About 14 years ago, English fans came to Dublin and caused a riot at Landsdown Road. They were treated harshly and swiftly by the Irish Police and put on the boat the same day and escorted back to the UK. The Irish police even stayed on the boat so that there would be no further trouble. The 20, 30 & 40 year olds remember that and don't want to see it repeated. If there is going to be a problem it's going to be if the English fans step out of line. Hopefully that wont happen and may the best team win (which is going to be the Irish)

  • 141.
  • At 05:20 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Billy Byrnes Moustache wrote:


I feel your pain Mr Keogh

I was born and bred in the Kilkenny side of New Ross but would never even consider supporting the 'cats' in the hurling when playing Wexford. My parents are Wexfordians so a Wexford man i am...and proud....

You can call me a plastic wexford fan all you want but being born on the wrong side of the river (Barrow) doesnt determine a mans identity

p.s. ireland by 5 pts

kilkenny by 10pts in the walsh cup final!


  • 142.
  • At 05:35 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Andy wrote:

"Ireland deserve a break"

What?!?!?!?! Why?

And what's more that's supposed to be a reason to support them?

  • 143.
  • At 05:37 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • ShaneMcC wrote:

No question. Ireland all the way. I'm in the same position, born in England to Irish parents, but without any confusion. My kids are fortunate to have an Irish Great-Grandfather on their mother's side as well which means they'll be wearing green tomorrow whilst their English mother just ignores the rugby.

  • 144.
  • At 05:38 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Sean wrote:

Decided to deal with similar upcoming problem for my own kids last year, 3 born in england to irish parents, moved back to ireland, job done.
Come on iorlind! ;->

  • 145.
  • At 05:50 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Norman Cotterill wrote:

Really looking forward to a great game on saturday. I'm English but have a lot of Irishness in me! I said 4 years ago Ireland would be world cup contenders soon with the current crop of players and club infrastructure they have. They should have beaten France and had the game won, but fatally choked at the last. England have been abysmal since the World Cup winning side broke up. People talk about Johnson but Richard Hill and Neil Back were in my view irreplaceable. They have started to play again and if Wilko plays he will punish every mistake from all over the park, so write the English off at your peril lads. And finally as I will say to my Irish mates before the game: " May the best team win". Lets hope its England.

  • 146.
  • At 05:51 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ian wrote:

Born in Manchester. Irish Mother.

As a teenager in the 80's, my friends amusingly nickamed me "Bomb Chucker" because of my Irish Family.
A few years later and I got my Irish Passport and the same friends asked "Why have you done that? You Plastic Paddy, your English"

I was mocked for being Irish, then vilified for getting an Irish Passport.

I recently applied for a loan at the bank and the clerk asked my nationality. I replied "Irish" and she said "you dont sound it". I advised her that I was born in Manchester and she said "Oh, I'll just put British then" !! I felt insulted at her ignorance.

What I am getting at is that, other than feeling natural, part of the reason I chose Ireland was due to the ignorance of the English around me.

One way of establishing your allegiances is to ask yourself one question? If England and Ireland declared war on each other, which side would you fight for? I know it is a very intense question to ask yourself but your heart will answer it for you.

Ireland to win 19-16

  • 147.
  • At 05:53 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ian wrote:

Born in Manchester. Irish Mother.

As a teenager in the 80's, my friends amusingly nickamed me "Bomb Chucker" because of my Irish Family.
A few years later and I got my Irish Passport and the same friends asked "Why have you done that? You Plastic Paddy, your English"

I was mocked for being Irish, then vilified for getting an Irish Passport.

I recently applied for a loan at the bank and the clerk asked my nationality. I replied "Irish" and she said "you dont sound it". I advised her that I was born in Manchester and she said "Oh, I'll just put British then" !! I felt insulted at her ignorance.

What I am getting at is that, other than feeling natural, part of the reason I chose Ireland was due to the ignorance of the English around me.

One way of establishing your allegiances is to ask yourself one question, If England and Ireland declared war on each other, which side would you fight for?
I hope this never actually happens however your heart will answer the question and you will know your identity.

Ireland to win 19-16

  • 148.
  • At 05:58 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Ian wrote:

For all those who think it matters where you were born.

What if you were born onboard a ship crossing the Atlantic in international waters?

Officially you can choose any nation you wish. The fact is that you would probably choose the nation of your forefathers.

  • 149.
  • At 06:12 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • greenwhitengold wrote:

troble is your viewing irish and english as nationalities... i was born in england to irish parents.... that makes my nationality british/irish (i have both passports) and my ethnicity irish... english is an ethnicity not a nationality... and If your a true celt you feel it in your blood, ill definately be supporting the irish all the way but no hard feelings if england win ;)

  • 150.
  • At 06:14 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Stephen wrote:

Sad really that people are called plastic paddies because they want to hold on to their heritage, that some should suggest they must support the country they are born and/or grew up in. The harsh fact is that the vast majority of second,third and fourth generation Irish etc. are living outside their homeland because their families were the victims of economic depravation caused by the English. Yes, lets leave nasty history behind and move on and compete and enjoy - but - there is no need to forget our heritage, whether we nutured this in Liverpool, Luton or Limerick.

  • 151.
  • At 06:21 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Chris wrote:

Dec (post) 142

Trouble at Lansdowne Road? Come on now, you must be thinking of the wrong shaped ball. We are rugby men.

  • 152.
  • At 06:26 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Tim wrote:

Ia m london born of irish parents too...noo question for me though...Come on England.

  • 153.
  • At 06:46 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Pedrito wrote:

Finally a thread that celebrates our differences with humour, rather than antagism.

Always understood the Irish flag the way it was explained by post 51.

An Ulsterman who emigrated 25 years ago...when I speak of home it is always Ireland.

As for the songs and music...maudlin and sentimental as all get out, but hard to beat when the craic is flowing.

Ireland all the way!!!!

  • 154.
  • At 07:13 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • 75% wrote:

Advice to Francis. Having been in a similar situation as a rugby mad supporter with 75% irish blood, 255 english, but born in England I used to struggle to know who to support and was originally neutral.
But having attended a lot of internationals and spent time with both groups of supporters it becomes quite easy to make up your mind.

  • 155.
  • At 07:15 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Frenchmick wrote:

You think you have problems my mum is french my dad was born before partition in ireland I was born in Belfast (this makes me British, French and Irish)
what chence have I except when the chips go down i flick a coin heads Ireland tails France when the coin goes up I know exactly who I support

But Im not Telling

do it, it focuses the mind greatly

By the way rugby in Ireland is a cross border thing there is only one colour you bleed when cut - GREEN!

  • 156.
  • At 07:27 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Frenchmick wrote:

You think you have problems my mum is french my dad was born before partition in ireland I was born in Belfast (this makes me British, French and Irish)
what chence have I except when the chips go down i flick a coin heads Ireland tails France when the coin goes up I know exactly who I support

But Im not Telling

do it, it focuses the mind greatly

My wife is English and my 2 boys play rugby for an English club they are proud of being English and proud of their heritage (including my strange blood combination)

By the way rugby in Ireland is a cross border thing there is only one colour you bleed when cut - GREEN!

  • 157.
  • At 07:33 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Roland wrote:

My Mother is half Irish/Scots, half Devonian. Her Ulster Father was a passionate Irish Rugby supporter who played schoolboy Rugby in both Belfast & Dublin. He lived in Kent for 60 of his 88 years and remained a devoted Irish supporter whilst my Mum was equally passionate in supporting England's Red Rose. Both loved their respective countries but more importantly loved Rugby above all. My Devonian Grandmother thought it was all nonsense and thought anything outside Devon was pretty shoddy!
Enjoy the game, may Wilko be fit and at his best. Red Rose to win.

  • 158.
  • At 08:03 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Aoife O'Kane wrote:

like francis i am also irish but born nd bread in england. i still however see myself as irish through and through. i would support ireland over england any day, partly because my father would dis-own me if i did'nt but mainly because i feel like a genuine irish girl through and through.
blood is thicker that water. its not where you are but where you feel more at home.

  • 159.
  • At 08:04 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Aoife O'Kane wrote:

same problem for me, irish parents, born in england. But i will ALWAYS support ireland, family is afterall the most important thing. I also feel more irish than english and am a passionate rugby fan.
Blood is thicker that water

C'mon the lads in Green!

  • 160.
  • At 08:09 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Stephen Mogerley wrote:

Please support England as Ireland do not want anyone who is not quite sure who they are.

  • 161.
  • At 08:09 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Guy wrote:

Cut you through and get green, white and gold?
it's gold is it in the Irish flag. I just thought it was a big yellow streak!

  • 162.
  • At 08:11 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • desmond wrote:

You can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy. Greetings from Mexico and rugby is going strong here....under an Irish Flag!!!Adelante hijos de la chin.... vamos a ganar!!!

  • 163.
  • At 08:35 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Barry McCauley wrote:

Nice blog entry there, Francis.
You echo my heritage/upbringing/sentiments there nicely, even down to The Fields of Athenry!!

But, I'm slightly more decided than yourself!! I'll be in my nearest Irish pub (*not* a themed one, of course) wearing my Ireland top, and with a pint of the black stuff in my hand.

I pray to God that Ireland win. They have the best team I've ever witnessed, and deserve to win everything. But, if they don't win tomorrow I won't mind so much. Just as long as I see a well fought game.

  • 164.
  • At 08:53 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • demoresco wrote:

Both my father and mother are Irish and I was born in Ireland and lived there for 30 years. I have been living in England for the past 4 years now. I have always supported Ireland, but over the past couple of years, I have begun to realize (and it breaks me heart) that England and the English are indeed superior to us in every way. I for one will be supporting the current world champions as I enjoy a nice glass of warm bitter and some pickled eggs and pork scratchings.........yea right!

Come on the lads in green!

  • 165.
  • At 08:58 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • JM wrote:

I was Born in Northern Ireland, Irish Mother, Scottish Father - raised in Scotland and feel Scottish. I think it is very much to do with your surroundings in the formative years as these things are based on emotions.

And as for the person who said "put rugby before tribal passions" - Eh? Isn't that all rugby is? We're not allowed to use weapons any more after all!

C'mon Ireland (unless against Scotland of course).

  • 166.
  • At 09:39 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • terry doyle wrote:

As an irishman living in the UK my advice to you is support Ireland. I provide two reasons. If you support Ireland and they lose you can relax, shrug your shoulders and forget it.

There was a comment made by a staunch Irish soccer team supporter which goes as follows' YOU'LL NEVER BEAT THE IRISH, .............unless your french, spanish, italian etc etc.

You see we love to win but it ain't the end of the world if we lose!!

Now, if you support England you have to analyse, chastise, moan and groan if you lose. If you win you have to say they were lucky, could have done better, they'll get beaten next time if they play like that again.

Sport is sport...nobody dies. So do what I do, support Ireland tomorrow but if they lose tell your friends you didn't watch the match because you went shoppin' with 'the mrs'

  • 167.
  • At 10:25 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • John B wrote:

I've got a Scottish mother, English Father, Born in Wales but now live in England! Any Suggestions?????

For my sins I always side with Wales but that comes with baggage of supporting anyone whose playing against England!! Come on Ireland!!!

  • 168.
  • At 10:42 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Julian wrote:

I think you can make a strong case for supporting either side. Perhaps you should wait until the game has started and see where your emotions lie. Sport is about passion, not rational decisions.
I'm English born and bred, but am half Irish. I support England when the two countries are playing, I'm afraid. When they are not playing England, I support Ireland.

  • 169.
  • At 11:02 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Daveirl wrote:

Lads,

It's how you fell at the end of the match that counts. Depending on that gut reaction. That is the team you support.

  • 170.
  • At 11:25 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • John wrote:

I'm pretty much in the same boat. My Gran would send shamrock over for St Patrick's Day and it would be lovingly pinned on my blazer to wear to school with pride. This weekend I will be rooting for an Irish victory...me and millions of the world-wide O'rish diaspoara. Whatever the result, it will be a good game given the historical context.

  • 171.
  • At 11:49 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • John Kennedy wrote:

My 13 and 14 year old boys were both born here . My wife and I are both Irish and have lived and worked here for nearly 20 years. We all love it here and respect the sweeping multicultural changes that have taken place in recent years. We all support England so long as they aren't playing Ireland. My sons without any prompting from me will be vehemently supporting the boys in green tomorrow. As has been said by plenty others follow your gut feeling. You can be proud of both nations , get emotional and enjoy a great game.

  • 172.
  • At 11:59 PM on 23 Feb 2007,
  • Joe wrote:

OK, I have a theory about situations like this (this may sound a bit odd at first but bear with me).

First imagine Ireland were to win: How does that make you feel (ecstatic, happy, sad or suicidal)?

Now imagine England were to win:
How does that make you feel (with the same benchmarks of mood)?

This way, if (for argument's sake) you were supporting England and they won, you won't be distraught when you realise you actually wanted the Irish to win all along.

Anyway, failing that, support England, as they are the greatest!!!

  • 173.
  • At 12:11 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • lexhamfox wrote:

I'm an American who grew up in London. My family tend to support England when watching football and I am a devout England Rugby fan going back to when they were truly awful in the late seventies. It's funny though... I always want the English tennis players to loose. Always.

I'm going to have to go to an Irish pub here in California tomorrow morning to watch the match and things always get contentious there during this fixture. Last year I was spat on and shoved around on the way out after a great game between the two countries and every year someone threatens me with this or that. It makes me really miss those wonderful trips to Dublin to see the away fixtures during the five nations where we always had a such a good time with the Irish fans before and after the game no matter what the result was.

  • 174.
  • At 12:43 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Luke Partridge wrote:

Im from Ulster and just cant bring myself to support Ireland, to me its just another european country. So for me as Im 100% British and a proud Ulsterman its England all the way, red white and blue over green anyday, though best of luck to Ireland and lets hope its a great game.

  • 175.
  • At 12:47 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • charlieb wrote:

You were born in England, you are English, support England.

  • 176.
  • At 01:01 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • mike wrote:

well if your were born in England and went to school in England than tht makes you English. i am sick of this plastic irishness amongst clearly English people. what your parents are nt what you are, if they were born and grew up in Ireland then they are irish, if you were born and grew up in England your English- wheres the confusion?

  • 177.
  • At 03:06 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Gary wrote:

My whole family is Irish and I was born in Cork City, but raised in London most of my life. I'll be rooting for the Bhoys, surrounded by my British friends.

  • 178.
  • At 03:50 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Tom Raftery wrote:

For those that say if you are born in England you are English, would that mean if you were born in Saudia Arabia you would be a Saudi?

The further east you go people judge your nationality on your parents ie Father and don't care where you were born.

I'm off Irish parents, and born in England and brought up with a strong Irish background, so I'm Irish and no matter what you say you can't take that away from me.
Come on Ireland!

  • 179.
  • At 05:35 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Alice wrote:

Does anyone else ever get the feeling that the British people have become so much more anti each other over the last 20 or so years? Its not like you're Sudan, surriounded by a warzone on all fronts, of other nations' battles and starving to death. But you dont see tham being so prejudiced to a civilian from those other nations! Try not to be so pathetic people!!

  • 180.
  • At 07:24 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • hamo wrote:

Born in London, Live in New York, Irish Mum English Dad and I'm proud to have both Passports. The rest of yous will at least be able to watch the game so spare a thought for me.
ps. there's no remedy to this, if the game doesnt get you the singing will. Can we just for once be both?

  • 181.
  • At 07:47 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Martin Vlnka wrote:

I was born in Slovakia, both parents Slovaks. Never been to England or Ireland. Having seen the movie Michael Collins recently. Hope the justice will be done today and the Ireland gonna win. Btw. if irish gonna let the Got Save The Queen to be played in Croke Park, they should be awarded Nobel Peace Prize as a nation...

  • 182.
  • At 08:25 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Maurice Travers wrote:

I am an englishman through and through. I will be supporting Ireland as I live in N Ireland . I have adopted this country as my own and have never found a more friendly people . I say to you Francis that your loyalties MUST go to ireland . I just hope that the game is played in the true spirit of rugby without any nastiness due to history . the past cannot be changed .

Maurice

  • 183.
  • At 08:38 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • david byrne wrote:

Our Future is greater than our past!! So let there be no trouble at this historic match, and of course Ireland to win by 27 pts (36-9).

  • 184.
  • At 09:10 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Liam wrote:

Phil, do you know why it has been referred to as green, white and gold? Check your history books!!!


"The Phil wrote
Perhaps you could learn that the colours of the Irish flag are Green, White and Orange before you claim that you bleed them to any extent? Just a thought!"

  • 185.
  • At 09:26 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Kim wrote:

I have more Irish ancestry than anything else (though have a fairly mixed pedigree down my father's side...)- despite being born and raised in England, I'll be supporting Ireland too.

  • 186.
  • At 09:28 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Philip Barnard wrote:

It's the game of the competition.
It's make or break for both sides World Cup ambitions in my view. Can't wait.

  • 187.
  • At 09:28 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • cian wrote:

Just because you're born in a stable doesn't mean you're a horse.

  • 188.
  • At 09:57 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • DommoIrl wrote:

You all know where You come from.

  • 189.
  • At 10:03 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pat Graham wrote:

The place that you were born and bread is where your true heart lies. Stick with your roots and they will never let you down. I believe in Ireland, but England have the tallent and attributes that a true winning side needs. BELIEVING = HAPPENING

  • 190.
  • At 10:06 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Noel Kehoe wrote:

Your name is Keogh. Now act like one and support Ireland.

  • 191.
  • At 10:07 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Ceara wrote:

I have the opposite problem - family all English, I was born in Ireland. I'm Irish, went to an Irish school, have an Irish accent.
I'll support England in anything unless they play Ireland, then the green blood comes through...

If you're not sure, wait until the first try is scored... depending whether you feel elation or disappointment should tell you where your heart lies...

Hope England play well, it's been disappointing the last 3 years. But come on Ireland to win!

  • 192.
  • At 10:30 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Nab wrote:

I'm colour blind but even I know it is orange on the flag. Green and orange are on the flag for the two traditions in Ireland. We have Organge orders not Gold orders!

  • 193.
  • At 10:41 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • browno wrote:

I have an Irish mother, and a Scottish father, but have been born and raised in England my entire life. But though I face the same dilemna, and have significant Irish sympathies, I'm proudly donning my England shirt right now, despite having a houseful of my mother's Irish family here! Although I support Ireland in any other occassion, and I wouldn't at all begrudge them a win today, I have an English accent, an English upbringing, and an English heart. Whilst I don't deny my heritage, I'm English born and raised. I feel its a bit silly to support Ireland. Simple as that. Now where's my pint of Guinness?? I can still enjoy the Craic can't I?!

  • 194.
  • At 10:47 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Rory wrote:

Having been born and raised in England with one Irish parent, I have come to accept that I'm not really Irish. However, I do have the heritage and therefore the claim to support Ireland and given the fantastic attitude of the Irish fans; the fact it is far more fun to support Ireland and the context of this match I'm green through and through today.

  • 195.
  • At 10:49 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Robbie wrote:

Grandmother from Cork, Father John Patrick born London as I was. So I'm English but after I read our family history, The Autobiographies of the Munster Men and learnt the Fields Of Athenry (all verses)and realised my Grandmother came to London in 1890 to survive, I soon realised what Irish Heritage means. Then you know the story of Croke Park. However times change and I "go to watch" England at Twickenham. but I support Ireland deep down. The difference is the hairs on the neck go up with The Soldiers Song, whilst I cringe when Swing Low is sung by people who cant be bothered to learn all the words and know one verse!! You can Stick your Flamin Charriot Up your **** as a Scotsman once told me. I hope that answers your question.

  • 196.
  • At 11:04 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Phillo wrote:

Remember we are all islanders. Only national politics separate our allegiances. Our genes determine our tribe so in affect we all come from the same clan (with some minor additional variations from our mainland cousins, and in addition, the latest gene tests show that the English never really mixed with the Saxons thus keeping the Celtic blood). Although born in Kenya, both my parents' families are from England with sprinklings of Scottish, Irish and Welsh to add flavour. I am a great England supporter, who after last week, watching the French/Ireland game, felt very Irish. In the end, you should always support the team you want to support - in this World we can choose who we want to be.
As for the today's game, I fancy Ireland to win based on last weeks performance.

Come On England!!

  • 197.
  • At 11:22 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • ian wrote:

i am from Northern Ireland, so i beleive i have no home rugby side so i personally support the british side playing..so this is just my opinion;
if you are born in a country lived in that country then thats the country you should be loyal to, otherwise why stay living there?

i am not a particular big fan of england,the tricolour is a foreign flag to me so big up the red and white :) England for the win!!!

  • 198.
  • At 11:25 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • wrote:

My wife's family are Spanish and I am English. When they play football I can be (almost) non-partisan and always be on the winning side. It's the one England match that I can actually enjoy!

  • 199.
  • At 11:27 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • derv wrote:

you should definatly support ireland!! i live in england but i have irish parents and i will always support ireland without a doubt!!! Good Luck Ireland!!!

  • 200.
  • At 11:43 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • john v gallagher wrote:

Use your heart not your head.
If you have to think about it
your not IRISH

  • 201.
  • At 11:58 AM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • dos to get laid wrote:

GO IRELAND!!

  • 202.
  • At 12:02 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • get laid in croake park wrote:

im ireland all the way! go o driscoll!

  • 203.
  • At 12:22 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Dan Elliott wrote:

Mate first of all you shouldnt have to ask us who you should support cos it is entirely up to you - me I am fourth generation English at least (I have only been able to trace my family back that far at the mo) but I am told there is Irish Blood in the family but I have been brought up in Wales and lived there and still am living there for 17 going on 18 years. So in one sense I could support one of three but for me the way I choose to define nationality is the country of birth which makes me English so I support England with all the passion and pride as if I had never left the country.

As for you I would say the same - you was born in England and therefore you are English in my eyes and so should support England but you need to decide for yourself really.

FAO: HELEN
Just to comment on your comment Helen, Whilst there may not be many England fans who know the history of Croke Park that is not because we forget our history that is because we are ashamed and feel disgraced by the events that took place on both occasions - there was no reason for either the Britsh Army or the Police to go in and shoot all those people and I am ashamed that it is part of our history so please do not accuse the English of being insensitive to the occasion nor of being too forgetful of their history - I am too young to have lived through the tragic events at Croke Park in 1916 and 1920 as indeed are most of todays fans but I still feel it part of my history as an English man - one thing I will say though todays game though a momentous occasion for both sides is still a game of rugby and that is what we need to concentrate on now - the politics and history though important bear no relevance to the actual game itself so can we please just concentrate on the rugby.

  • 204.
  • At 12:25 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pete wrote:

Like a lot of people have said follow your heart and if that doesnt work then you really dont care do you??.I have an English mum and had an Irish Dad and left England when I was 6 and now live in Ireland.I am never caught in two minds it is England 'til the day I die!!

  • 205.
  • At 12:38 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Edward FitzGerald wrote:

All the talk about percentages of irishishness or englishness don't really matter. My family untill the 20th century lived in ireland since the Strongbow invasion but that is beside the point. When the anthems are playing you will now who to support. I will be supporting Ireland all the way.

  • 206.
  • At 12:39 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Isaac, England wrote:

Enjoy the spectacle if you're stuck for who to support, such occasions don't come around often. I anticipate an intoxicating atmosphere and game.

  • 207.
  • At 12:43 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • healy wrote:

to post 199,why support a British team? Britain is a foreign island/country to yours.Dont forget you live in the United Kingdom of Great Briain AND N Ireland.You are not and never will be British.The title of the amalgamation of countries you are part of stipulates this difference.The English flag is as foreign to you as the irish tri-colour.Why not support the team your fellow countrymen play for? get a grip

  • 208.
  • At 12:44 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Jim wrote:

I too have a dilemma today. I was born in Ireland, but I've lived in England for nearly all the twenty years of my life. My family has deep roots in Ireland, and the majority of them will be wearing green today.

On the other hand, I've always found myself torn on events like this. My family tell me that I'm Irish, and to an extent I agree with them (my English friends certainly do), but I've lived in South England for so long, I consider myself as belonging to both nations. Normally I cop out, saying "Well, it's great for me, because whatever team wins, I win" but on a game that has such a feeling of importance attached to it, I think it might be time to pick a side.

The question is, which one? If I support England, it'll be a bit of a disaster at home, if I support Ireland, am I betraying my real home?

Then again, maybe I should realise that it's just a game and lighten up a bit. I'm working during it anyway.

  • 209.
  • At 12:49 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Callum wrote:

Come on England!!!!

  • 210.
  • At 12:52 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • captainhenrymorgan wrote:

To Phillo,

Had to laugh at your cod genealogy re. the English never mixing with the Saxons.

For a start, before the ANGlo-saxons there were no 'ENGlish'!

The latest information shows that 60% of the population in England have 'a' genetic link with pre-celtic peoples (related to modern day Basques). The same survey also shows that over 80% of people in Ireland have 'a' link to the same genetic group. So you do have a point about some shared ancestry..

When it comes to genes, it is possible to carry traits from different tribal groups. Thus, a similar blood sample survey showed in 1998 that over 70% of the population in England also have 'a' link to anglo-saxon peoples (related to modern day Dutch, northern Germans and Danes). So the argument that no mixing of blood lines took place is laughable!

I'm quite sure that more surveys would reveal a celtic strain in English people as well. The evidence of our river and mountain names would suggest this is the case..

I'm an Englishman who's proud of his island heritage, of the mixture of tribes that have gone before me..I acknowledge my pre-celtic and celtic links but my heart will be all Saxon come five thirty at croke park!!

  • 211.
  • At 12:59 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Ciaran Clifford wrote:

i am a huge gaelic football and rugby fan and I have been to croke park on several occasions . Personally I don't agree that the GAA should have permitted the RFU the facilities to croke park and I am weary of the clash with england . The only anthem that ever gets played in Croke Park is that of Ireland and sometimes Austrailia for the International Rules series , I don't think that England should be able to play there God Save The Queen national anthem for several reasons . For many people in Ireland they will not like to see this in that stadium as last time England t were in croke park back in 1916 they shot 14 dead . It is politicaly significant and for many people including myself I will noy enjoy witnessing this . It won't get a very good reception off the Ireland fans I doubt and despite the fact that I don't want it played I don't want to see any trouble in such a magnificent stadium . It is a historci game and England should play something like Swing Low , Ireland don't play their national anthem at Twickenham after all , they play Irelands song so why should England be able to do the same at Croke Park considering what they have done there and how it will arise trouble no doubt . What do you think people , should they be allowed to play it ?

  • 212.
  • At 01:04 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Glasgow_Smiler wrote:

OK - here goes...

Born, bred and live in Glasgow - Danish surname - one grandparent half Danish half Irish, born in Ireland and brought up in Denmark, one granparent from London, one from Glasgow, one from Belfast. Mum from Glasgow, Dad from Birmingham (been here for 40 years."English by birth and Scottish by the grace of God"). Variously "accused" of being from Ireland or England by other Glaswegians by virtue of not sounding the same as them as a result of private education. Oh, and a Lithuanian girlfriend for good measure.

Does any of this matter???

NO - English rugby team to lose whoever they are playing against. Had enough of Yawnny Wilkinson and co for a lifetime!!

COME ON IRELAND!!

Oh, and regarding the flag debate - Number 4 "The Phil" is correct, and as patriotic as Number 28 "Mrs D'Arcy" may be she is wrong.

The flag is Green (to represent Roman Catholics), ORANGE (to represent Protestants) and White (to represent the desired peace between the two)

  • 213.
  • At 01:20 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Kofi Barnes wrote:

How can you have got to the stage of writing for the ´óÏó´«Ã½ without ever having decided whether you support England or Ireland? It beats me how someone can reach a position like yours having never felt truely passionate about supporting a national team. Without this experience you can't be an effective journalist on the subject because you can't possibly hope to understand the emotions felt and attitudes held by the people for whom you are writing.

This is ridiculous.

  • 214.
  • At 01:30 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Paddy wrote:

If you have to ask - then you should support England - afetr all it's the easy option - you were born there and you give yourself the option of supporting a team that won the world cup (will they still be going on about it in 40 years like the soccer one? You betcha).
If you had Ireland in your heart, you'd not have to ask the question, your support would be unflinching.
As someone born in Ireland but having lived all of my life since I was 18 months ni England i have never had any duobt where my loyalty lies - the place of my birth and the land of my father. Ireland rarely feature big in sporting achievement but this is a team we can justly be proud of.

  • 215.
  • At 01:38 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Paddy wrote:

Ciaran Clifford (post 213) may be a big rugby and GAA fan but he needs to get his facts right. The massacre at Croke Park took place in 1920 - not 1916, that was the Easter uprising following which James Connolly and many others weer unjustly put to death. Irrespective of this, to perpetuate the divide between England and my wonderful country of Ireland is simply not acceptable. I think the playing of an international sport (and let's not forget this is about sport) at Croke Park, against England, sets a precedent and, far from being insulting to anyone who died in the past, is a tribute to the fact that Ireland is a true International nation. I will be shouting for Ireland of course, but the true winners are sport and peace.

  • 216.
  • At 01:54 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • katy wrote:

Jesus was born in a barn, that dosen't make him a donkey. You have irish blood in your viens. I'm the same as you born in england all other family irish with southern accents and my bet is firmly on the greens x

  • 217.
  • At 02:13 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • harry betts wrote:

I'm in brisbane. They are all pre-occupied by second team super 14 here and seem to have given up recently on cricket and rugby league. Lots of coverage of women's swimming. No coverage of six nations. Win when you're swimming, you only win when you're swimming.

  • 218.
  • At 02:15 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Theresa wrote:

If you have to ask this question, you should support England, drink your flat "spitfire" beer and go home miserable after you've been beaten!

  • 219.
  • At 02:47 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • jonny wrote:

Would someone be so kind to advise me: are there sufficient parking spaces at Murrayfield or should I park somewhere else, and if so, where? Also, how early before a sell-out game should I enter the stadium? Any other helpful advice on attending a match at Murrayfield would be greatly appreciated.
MANY THANKS! Jonny

  • 220.
  • At 03:14 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Eamonn wrote:

ur a weiner.... why wud u possibly support england when ur Irish?? in fact us irish dont need someone as stupid as you asking people who u should support... boo on you and everything u do.

  • 221.
  • At 03:34 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Martin Long (Cork, Limerick and Manchester) wrote:

Bit of a no brainer really, Ireland all the way.

For me it was an easy choice being born in an Irish family in Manchester. Its in your heart and your blood, its a feeling, and the way the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you hear 80,000 people singing the Fields of Athenry confirms it for me everytime.

I think Joe Horgan sums it up best...

...'A common theme amongst so many people of a particular mindset is that the complexities of life are a nuisance best ignored and that things can be reduced to simple statements such as place of birth. If only life were that simple. But the one truly simple statement is that life is not.

What some people seem to find hard to accept is that growing up in an Irish family in Britain is a definitive experience. Though born in Britain, it cannot be assumed that individuals are having the same relationship with their place of birth as those growing up in a British family next door.

Now some people grow up in Britain in Irish families and the link with Ireland is only that they originally came from there. They don’t go back there, talk about it or see themselves in any strong way connected with it. They may have an Irish surname and an affection for the place but they feel, and therefore are, British. Not by birth but by inclination. That is the nature of identity.

But for others the presence of Irishness is definitive. It is their identity. It is who they are. They have been raised in an Irish family and though they stay by and large in Britain and have British accents they are Irish. That is how they see themselves. Their parents or grandparents, the music, the long summer holidays in Ireland, their names and their religion all combine to create an identity for them that is inherently Irish. That is the nature of identity too.

Either way, because bigotry deals in simplistic stereotypes and identity is superbly complex, an expression of identity is so often met with derision or objection'...

  • 222.
  • At 03:43 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Geordon O'Hanlan wrote:

I'm half English, Half Irish, but have never lived in either country. . . What hope do I have of choosing?

  • 223.
  • At 04:09 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • sean og wrote:

It shall and will be Irelands day!!!! We deserve it on both recent form and the last minute defeat to France!!!!!!!


Let both songs ring load and clear who cares about a song!!! Its about the pride for our country and this should be showed with respect. At the end of the day we know we are Irish and we let them know where Irish with our roars of the fields of atenry!!!!!!!!!!

IRELAND--19--ENGLAND--16

  • 224.
  • At 04:23 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Mike Buckley wrote:

Part and parcel of being a fan of this wonderful game we call rugby football is the ingrained gentlemanly respect we all have for the opposition and their fans. I don't care where anyone was born, where their parents were born or where they were conceived. You make your choice and I respect you for it. End of story. As for THIS game tho'.... well Ireland v England will always have some extra spice...for the simple reason that England and their fans always seem to be asking "Why do you hate us so much?" and the Irish and their fans responding "Don't you get it at all?".
Good luck to both teams and here's hoping for a memorable game we'll all be talking about for years to come. (With an Irish win of course)

  • 225.
  • At 04:52 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Matt Cooper wrote:

Helen said in comment 7:

"the irish never forget their history... the english never remember theirs."

No, it's the fact that the English never get taught theirs!

Come On England!

  • 226.
  • At 05:07 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Neil Robertson wrote:

Just watched Scotland v Italy.

Sang Flower of Scotland for 20 seconds, then after 7 minutes was pleased that my Nephew scored for Italy (at least he is now!)

The rule is always support the family, all we need now is an Irish Robertson to score in the next 2 hours and I'll be over the moon.

Scotland showed a total lack of respect and paid the price - fling the ball about Cusiter and Robertson will find you out!!!


Pizza tonight!

  • 227.
  • At 05:08 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Robin Parsons wrote:


As Cecil Rhodes once said;

"To be born English is to have won first prize in the lottery of life".

Therefore, what ever the result today, I'll be a winner. I am proud of who I am and where I come from... although the Roman heritage in me surfaced today as I cheered my Roman cousins on against the Scots!!

Rob

  • 228.
  • At 05:12 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pedrito wrote:

Luke,

how can you consider Ireland another country in Europe, and not see England the same way? Ulster, whether you wish to accept it or not is a province of Ireland.

I have a feeling if you ask an Englishman what you are, after hearing your accent he will tell you you are Irish.

I, too, am a proud Ulsterman, and a Protestant, but I am also aware that the political and economic contingencies that lead to the creation of NI have nothing to do with our "Britishness." And it seems to me that the "Bristish" government is trying to look at ways of weakening this particular Union.

  • 229.
  • At 05:16 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Seamus wrote:

I was born and raised in West Cork of Italian parents!!!!Proud to see Italy thunder to a great victory over the Scots today,and will be cheering for '' The Lads' today at Croke park.Viva Irlanda!!!!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact someone asked me one day ,when Ireland and Italy play each other who would I want to win.My answer ,then and now......may the best team win.......spoken like an Irishman.

  • 230.
  • At 05:19 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Samuel Luckhurst wrote:

I'm a quarter Irish but I'm a true English patriot so I'm an England fan no question. But at the same I'm proud of my Irish roots, love Guiness, drink Magners regularly and Roy Keane is my hero.

  • 231.
  • At 05:26 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pete wrote:

So many of us are mixes of so many races that we can kind of pick and choose who we want to support. But I still think that you should choose - standing at both ends of the pitch (so to speak) means that you miss out on the passion, the exhileration and the cameraderie.
My parents are Irish, I was born (and now live in England) but went to school in Scotland. I support all the UK sides at some point; England against Ireland I spport England, Ireland against Scotland I support Ireland. I'll alsways support a UK side against a non UK side

  • 232.
  • At 06:01 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • SB wrote:

Terrific post...and more interesting and thoughtful comments than I usually see on here. Born in England, with an English dad and a Welsh mum - I am English, but pround of my partly Welsh heritage. I have a theory - the main reason I am passionate about the English national teams is that my dad was/is - and being a young boy looking to connect with his dad, well it follows, doesn't it. I do have a issue with the "blood thicker than water" thing - this argumement has been the foundation of many of the truly horrific oppressions throughout history - the holocaust, anti-black racism, and the Balkans War, come to mind. I'm suspicious of people who use blood ties as a means to "sort" people. What is truly instresting about this post, is that there are a whole host of reasons that determine how people will choose to identify themselves. Big thanks to the OP, and here's looking forward to a great game...which I'm following on the net in the US. Swing low.....

  • 233.
  • At 06:34 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Grace wrote:

Hi, My dad is english! I was born in Scotland but there is no hope that i would support England ! Sorry ! but i really am a true scottish patroit ! Sorry ! Cant help that ! England V Ireland sorry guys im for Bod and his team ! France V Wales my family and mates want the French but im all 4 the Welsh !

  • 234.
  • At 06:39 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • farquhar wrote:

If ever anyone doubted Moores biased commentary you only have to listen to what his reaction was to a dangerous tackle against Darcy when he was tackled in the air - he was more concerned with the law against the reactions of the irish against the english than of the chance that the tackle could have been more than dangerous no matter-how innocent it was - i dont believe that it was worthy of a carding, just mistiming but he just went for his law book and ignored his duty to provide neutral commentary on the proceeding.

How can the ´óÏó´«Ã½ employ a man to provide a neutral commentary on a game when he is quite obviously incapable of it!

  • 235.
  • At 06:45 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Grace wrote:

Pete , How can you say that we cant pick and chosse. Well my dad is english and my mum is scottish i9 was born in scotland. England V Scotland. Scotland all the Way ! I know we dont have the best players but we play our little scottish hearts out soo.
Come on Scots !
Scotland all the way !

  • 236.
  • At 07:28 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Guy wrote:

Post 209

By that token people who live on the Isle of Wight are not British!

  • 237.
  • At 07:40 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Ian Morgan wrote:

Well, how I laughed. One decent victory against Scotland and all of a sudden England are RWC favourites again. But a laborious win over Italy and then an absolute stuffing against the Irish in one of the most one-sided 6N games I have seen for many a year puts them firmly in their place - i.e. no further forward than the debacle that was the Robinson era. They looked totally clueless and even Golden balls couldn't make any difference. I'm going to the France game on the 11th and can't wait!

  • 238.
  • At 07:55 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Loquitur wrote:

Come on Farqhar! By all means comment on Brian More's patriotism if you want, but keep it even! Eddie Butler is so anti-English he should never be allowed to commentate on England games. Butler finds it very difficult to stay neutral, even if he does manage to catch the play or recognise the right player - Best and Boss? A simple mistake to make I suppose as their names both begin with a B! And come on ´óÏó´«Ã½ too! Stop wasting time showing us replays whilst live action is happening! You've lost a lot of ground on the other channel so look to your laurels! Oh! And well done to Italy!

  • 239.
  • At 08:05 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Patrick wrote:

Brian Moore should not be a ´óÏó´«Ã½ commentator, full stop. On an occasion that was legendary with a win that was historic, deserved, and hugely entertaining, the whole experience was marred by Mr. Moore's sometimes comical, but mostly annoyingly biased commentary! As 236 (farquhar) pointed out, he's more interested in finding loopholes to make excuses for the English rather than appreciating the quality of the Irish rugby and praising them for it.
By no means is Mr. Moore the only commentator guilty of bias; Italy is time and again talked down by the commentators, even comments such as "He should have made that tackle" rather than saying "What a good break" can make all the difference between enjoyment and a feeling of a lessened experience.
I watch rugby to appreciate the high quality of the play and acknowledge both sides' inspirational commitment and skill, which I hope is the case for most other fans. I think the commentators have a duty to the watchers to stop being so disgustingly one-sided and to be more open minded to the international impact their commentary has. I can guarantee that Brian Moore would not have lasted the pace as a goodwill ambassador for the Eng v Ire match.
As a last note I want to mention that as an English fan I'm happy as hell for Ireland's win. Gutted we lost, but in the end we didn't deserve to win. To any Irish fans, congratulations, sorry for Brian Moore if you were watching on the Beeb, and drink one for me while you're celebrating! Cheers!

  • 240.
  • At 08:36 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Pat wrote:

IRELAND LOOKING HOT FOR THE WORLD CUP!!
ENGLAND LOOK A BEATEN TEAM..

  • 241.
  • At 08:54 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • r0nin wrote:

look guys, the irish won well and deserved it... england didn't play badly imho, but where over awed by the occasion... from an english perspective, seeing JW coming back to full fitness on the rugby field another solid performance from Ellis, it's warming up nicely for the world cup... we can only improve from here, and the fact that the irish unfortunately lost to the french ;) the title is still on...

  • 242.
  • At 09:02 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Richard wrote:

Bring back Bill Mclaren and drop the two Old Washerwomen!

  • 243.
  • At 09:05 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Dunk wrote:

I've complained many times to the ´óÏó´«Ã½ about Mr Moore. I think all those against should start some sort of petition. Meanwhile, like many others, whenever his 'experience' is called for by the ´óÏó´«Ã½ I immediately turn off the sound. Without question he is biased but it is his aggresive and arrogant nature of his interventions which is particularly rude and offensive. I know he does not speak for most English rugby fans which I'm sure he feels he does. For England he's an embarassment, for the rest of us he's very offensive. With the World Cup looming, ´óÏó´«Ã½ - sort it out!

  • 244.
  • At 09:08 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Sean M wrote:

Brian Moore is so funny to listen he is not biased for gods sake....he is a solicitor, they area all like that....what a fantastic advetisemnet for the beautiful game of rugby union....oh and well done the bhoys ;)

  • 245.
  • At 09:13 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Loquitur wrote:

As an English supporter I too was pleased for Ireland today (Patrick's 241). The best team on paper and on the park (both by a long way), with such great support and what a home advantage! If any Home Nation team has a chance at the World Cup it's the Irish. Most English rugby fans are realists and no-one would have expected anything other than an Irish victory, and certainly no-one in England has any realistic expectations about winning the RWC. Mr Morgan (239) is quite right - a couple of wins over a second-rate side and a hard working Italy, means very little in the great scheme of things. England most definitely are in "their place". No shame in that - well beaten by a potentially World beating side, but hopefully on the slow journey back. There's plenty for Ashton to work on, but it ain't rocket science.
As an Englishman with Welsh roots and a great respect and liking for the Irish all I need now for a reasonably good weekend is for Wales to put up a decent show in Paris tonight - a Welsh win would open up the 6Ns nicely. So far today the best teams have won and that is surely what this wonderful game is all about.

  • 246.
  • At 09:40 PM on 24 Feb 2007,
  • Robin Parsons wrote:

To Post 213...Ciaran Clifford

Get your facts right.

1)
God Save the Queen is the BRITISH anthem not the ENGLISH anthem. A basic geography lesson for you; The BRITISH nation is made up of Scotland, Wales and Scotland... therefore GSTQ represents all of these nations... Unlike the other nations England has yet to get her own anthem.
2) The Black and Tans/ Police Auxillaries were made up of BRITISH troops not just ENGLISH. Therefore, you have the uncomfortable situation that non-ENGLISH troops were involved on that terrible day. You may be interested to know Lloyd George, the Prime Minister of BRITAIN at the time was a self proclaimed WELSHMAN....

Though you probably aren't interested as you just want to peddle Anglophobia.

The events you talk about happened in 1920, and you are holding it against the nation of England? If you can't move on you should hold it against the BRITISH nation!

By the way, as it happened so long ago (1920)is it not time to move on?

By the same token the English do not create a fuss when the Germans play in England (after all they did bomb London in 1940 onwards), nor the Japanese, nor the French, nor the Spanish, nor the Scots.... all of whom we have been at war with...There is no repercussions when Ireland play in London, remember ENFLISH citizens have been blown up in the name of EIRE. We have moved on. These sad bits of history are just that... History.

So drop the Anglophobia, learn about your history, respect it, but be man enough to move on!!

Robin

  • 247.
  • At 08:57 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Roy72 wrote:

My mix.25% french, 50% English, 12.5 Scottish and 12.5% Irish.

Wife is 50% Irish, 25% Scottish, 25% from Belize.

Always make picking a team from the 5/6 nations tricky.

I do note that the Irish portion of people's ancestry is very dominant, americans in particular can have 10 ancestors from England and one from County Clare and guess which part of their heritage they embrace?

I wonder if genetecists have discovered this "gaelic" gene and which chromasome it is on!

Great result for Ireland, and watch out for Italy! I think this last win is by far their most significant yet.

  • 248.
  • At 09:35 AM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • Guy wrote:

What is suprising is this. Despite the fact that Ireland, Wales and Scotland are so brilliant and England is full of arrogant bores, so many people from the former countries choose to live in the latter.

By the way, who are these Celts that people keep banging on about. It shows a huge ignorance about your own origins.

Well, it was quite a day all round, and it wasn't all good.

Will fill you in on Monday.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the feedback - much of it thought-provoking.

PS. To 222 Eamonn - Is a weiner a hot dog? Is that good or bad?

LOL...with ketchup and mustard :)

  • 250.
  • At 04:56 PM on 25 Feb 2007,
  • healy wrote:

to post 238. you are correct! as the population on the IOW live precisely there (the IOW) and not on the island of Britain they are not British.People who live on Corsica are Corsican not French. People who live in Sicily are Sicillian not Italian and so on and so forth. If we were to find little green men on mars would they consider themselves earthlings because earth is the nearest planet? Do the people on Sri Lanka consider themselves Indian. Do the Japanese consider themselves Chinese just because the nearest big country is China. thankyou

  • 251.
  • At 06:39 AM on 26 Feb 2007,
  • Luke Partridge wrote:

Pedrito (number 230), to me England will never be just another Country in Europe, first of all I see England as part of the U.K just as Ulster is and just as Scotland and Wales are. I feel connected to all of these place's. I can never understand Ireland or the Irish people because all they ever go on about is how much they hate the British or the English, What you said about being a provance of Ireland is a non starter with me really I dont feel Irish, I feel British thats what my passport says and thats how I feel, I support man utd (a British football team) I eat fish and chips (good British grub) I watch eastenders (British tv show) and I listern to the stones (British music) so I just feel 100% British sorry but thats just me I cant help the way I feel. I know everybody jumps on the Irish bandwagon these days but lets all be proud of our great nation the United Kingdom !!!!

  • 252.
  • At 04:52 PM on 26 Feb 2007,
  • Gavin wrote:

Luke,

Seriously friend, you need to get out a bit. Have you ever spent any time in Dublin, Cork, anywhere in the Republic? Aside from 1% of fools (the same type of person as join the BNP in Britain), nobody here really gives two hoots about hating Britain or England or anyone. It's history! That is why there were 80 fools outside Croke Park protesting and 80,000 inside having the time of their lives.

Amusingly, (and I'm amazed you don't seem to know this) most people in the Republic also listen to music by English/British bands, eat food, and support English teams. So we must be British too! (By the way, did you see the picture of one protestor at the match with a sign saying "No to foreign games", while wearing soccer gear from head to toe? Clown!)

People in the North of Ireland think everyone cares as much about Northern politics as they do. I couldn't care less who you pay your taxes to, but it would be nice if we could all cheer the same team.

You are living in the past man. Open your mind and meet the people that you pre-judge. Get out of Ireland, live abroad. Learn about other people. I think you will find life is not as black and white as you think.

  • 253.
  • At 11:11 PM on 07 May 2007,
  • Steppie wrote:

Up the Irish all the way

  • 254.
  • At 08:49 PM on 17 Aug 2007,
  • Pamelita wrote:

This is a long shot, but I say 'why not?' I'm looking for a guy named Paul who was born in England, his parents and grandparents are from Ireland. He should be about 24yrs old now (met him when he was 22). We met in a pub in Santa Monica, California. I did a search for 'paul born in england irish parents red head' and came upon this blog. I was born in Jamaica, grew up in the USA. Hope all is well with everyone. Peace and Blessings. If you know him or you are him, send me a message at myspace profile:
Have a great day everyone!

Post a comment

Please note Name and E-mail are required.

Comments are moderated, and will not appear on this weblog until the author has approved them. Please note that submitting a comment is not the same as making a formal complaint - see this page for more details.

Required
Required (not displayed)
 
    

The ´óÏó´«Ã½ is not responsible for the content of external internet sites