Where are the Murrayfield missing?
- 21 Feb 07, 08:46 AM
Now I could talk about Scotland's team selection for the game against Italy, but it looks fairly settled. which is fair enough and Simon Webster is out for a while which is not fair at all, but there you go.
Instead, I'd like to talk about other people who won't be there on Saturday. At the moment, about 20,000 of them.
At the time of writing (Tuesday afternoon) some 45,200 tickets have been sold. Sales are currently averaging about 1,000 a day.
So that would be fine if we could somehow squeeze a few extra days in before Saturday, but I'm told that may be impossible. A lot of paperwork involved. Special forms to be filled in.
Instead, perhaps 55,000 is the very best (capacity 67,000) can hope for on Saturday, allowing for good weather and a good few tickets bought at the turnstiles.
Is that good enough?
Certainly the glass half-full brigade point out that it is more than have been sold for previous games against Italy at Murrayfield.
Secondly, there is no real travelling Italian support to boost the numbers. Would Murrayfield have sold out for the games against Wales and Ireland if not for the invading hordes?
The nay-sayers would argue that for there to be a significant number of empty seats at any 6 Nations game is a real failing.
But whose failing?
in the was clear. For example, fewer than 5,000 bothering to turn up for South Africa against Spain (admittedly never likely to be a classic).
Then, though, the blame was laid firmly at the door of the ticketing prices.
But prices don't seem to be over the odds for this one.
I know that they are lowered slightly for the Italian game. From 拢10 for children and students, and 拢20 for adults.
So yes, I suppose that, unless you put on a long, black coat and talk loudly and inaccurately about Sartre to pass yourself off as someone in further education, you're going to be at least twenty quid down.
But isn't that a fair price to pay for a 6 Nations game?
It certainly compares favourably with Twickenham and other venues. If you wanted to watch Italy's efforts against England a couple of weeks ago, the lowest price for an adult was 拢40 and 拢20 for a child.
So you pay twice as much at Twickers and still it鈥檚 an 80,000 sell-out.
Where, then, are the supporters? Perhaps it reflects a wider malaise - a .
But don't the fans have a responsibility to help the national side? A side which could be said to have played its part. Unbeaten at Murrayfield in the last three 6 Nations games.
The roar of the ground which can lift a team has been all too often missing in recent years.
Sometimes it has been lacking because of the side's performance itself. Sometimes because the crowd was made up mostly of schoolchildren who would do their best, bless them, but raised only the kind of high-pitched squeal you got on .
So a plea to the Scottish rugby branch of . Some of whom are missing in action. I'm told that the and ticket hotlines have a few for sale. Buy a ticket.
Even pretend to be a student if you have to.
Wales 27-18 England
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That's all very well, Andrew, but the SRU has turned so many of us off that we won't go back while they persist with their stupid pro team policy. I'm all for supporting Scotland and will do so in the company of all my mates at my club, Falkirk, on Saturday when we watch the day's matches on the big screen, but I'm saving 拢20 on a ticket, 拢5 on a programme, and 拢15 on train fares and taxis by backing my own club. Thousands of us will be doing the same all over the country on Saturday and since the clubs have been hung out to dry by the SRU, why should we keep putting lots of money into Murrayfield's pockets?
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I think when scotland start playing rugby worth watching, spectator numbers will increase.....
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You can't compare prices between Murrayfield and Twickenham. Simple rules of supply and demand means there will always be those in the relatively affluent and vastly populated South who are prepared to pay extortionate prices for a ticket that is as rare as rocking horse excrement, whereas the less densely populated North; 1. Have fewer people so demand isn't so high per head of capita and 2. Have more sense than to part with ridiculous amounts of their hard earned to watch a game they can watch from the comfort of home or invest the money they would have spent on a ticket down the local watering hole.
Simple enough suggestion would be all tickets on the day at 拢10, first come first served. 10000 or so seats filled at that price would be better than empty ones, both in adding to the Murrayfield roar and helping the SRU reduce their budget deficit. May even encourage folks to tag along who may never have though of going to watch a rugby international before, who once have experienced the atmosphere and spirit of watching the match live may then come back on a full price ticket for later matches.
Good article though.
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I'm one who will be missing from Murrayfield this weekend. I'm paying 拢45 for my ticket to the Ireland game and on top of the cost of travelling through and maybe a few beers and food either side of the 1.30ko, and it all adds up to an expensive day. I'd go to all the home games if I was able to pay say 拢20 a ticket per game but with the demand this year that wasn't at all possible! I also prefer to make it a good day out as well as enjoying the match! I'll certainly be watching the TV cheering them on to make it 2 from 3 though!
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Why pay money to watch Scotland when you can watch Ireland vs England on the telly free ?
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maybe people aren't paying to see scotland because they're not very good ?
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Rugby is not promoted enough in Scotland, too much emphasis is on football and the youngsters don't bother with rugby. More work is needed to get rugby played in all the state schools, and not just the private schools. Rugby is still seen as an upper class game. More grass roots rugby at club level, and at acceptable times. As and example this is a story about my nephew, who would love to play, but his local club minis are early on a sunday morning. His parents won't take him (he lives 25 minutes away by car)as it is too early on a sunday morning. He plays soccer at his local primary school and has an evening practice during the week. The school does not play rugby. He is looking forward to going to private school in 2 years so he can finally get to play. More kids playing = greater fan base = more ticket sales.
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I reckon it cost me approximately 250.00 to go to Calcutta Cup last year. Travel from Aberdeen, ticket, one nights accomodation in Edinburgh (had to pay for two nights!!), a meal, a small quantity of alcohol! Okay I could have travelled down watched the game and travelled home again. Cost would then have ben around 100.00. My ticket for this years Autumn tests were better only paid 10.00 shame about the performances!
Why do or should people go to sporting events - to be entertained. A tenner isn't a big loss when the team stink. But 40-60 you've got to be a real diehard. It's either entertainment or tribalism that drives the sports supporter. Scottish Club Football good example of the latter as the product stinks.
Why does the SRU believe operates outwith the simple economic principle of supply and demand! The product isn't great at the moment. The demand is low at current prices therefore drop the price. OR BRING BACK ANDERTON!!! We beat SA at a packed Murrayfield because with days to go he gave the tickets away to schools. WHAT AN ATMOSPHERE.
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If only all Scotland's matches were against England or Ireland; spectator numbers certainly increase regardless of what sort of rugby is played.
Isn't that the original distinction? That Scottish rugby is followed by spectators rather than supporters? People passively watching, mainly in their armchairs, or at the pub, waiting for Scotland to become better, or play better and more consistently, so those spectators can announce themselves supporters once more.
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I think there are two points here: as you point out there are barely 40,000 scots at any match, the away fans hide this.
Secondly, what does RSA -v- Spain in 1999 have to do with it? I don't support either team, and don't understand why you think I should have gone.
I don't expect to go to any WC games this year either, not with the prices being charged.
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To Nick Faulds, the halcyon days of amatuer rugby at the top level are GONE. If the SRU had not formed the pro teams the international game in Scotland would be DEAD and the games you and your mates would be watching on TV would be against Spain, Portugal and The Faroe Islands!
As a Scot living in England, I fork out for train fare, flights, accommodation AND tickets to support my national team, so I don't think a trip to Edinburgh from Falkirk is too much to ask. Scotland's rugby team achieves wonders considering its resources and it's about time Scottish rugby 'fans' made a bit of effort to appreciate it. If you gave back to Murrayfield, the professional game would be better funded, and it would allow for a better club system too.
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maybe the fact its on 'super saturday' has an effect as people will want to watch the other games and italy arnt a world class team that the part-time rugby supporters would know anything about
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Indeed it is a shame that Scottish Rugby support is failing its brave players. I was shocked at Murrayfield for the Edinburgh-Leinster Heineken Cup clash last October when it was announced that the 5000+ sportsfans in attendance represented a Scotland record. Get in everybody there for your team, especially as Italy will be no walkover.
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If there is one positive to be drawn it is that the lack of scottish attendance makes it easy for travelling fans to get tickets for their teams game in Murrayfield. I'm Irish and its tricky to say the least getting home tickets. I've beent o the Ireland France game and will be at the Ireland Scotland game...makes a change of location, and the tickets were so easy to get, and half the price of Croker at only 拢30
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It wasn't always like this - I remember sell outs for Romania and Fiji games in 1989 (ok - that was a while ago but still).
A major turn off for me now is that it is all seated. I used to love going on the terraces but now I'm stuck in a seat - the reaction to Hillsborough was completely over the top in this regard. Just get rid of the fences at the front. However, I'm wandering off topic.
The lack of a bar (as metioned in last weeks column) is also a factor in keeping some fans away (and cash away from the SRU).
Still, is 67,000 out of ~5million that much to ask...
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I think it was Frank Hadden who highlighted that ther are more people actually playing rugby in Macedonia than ther are in Scotland. I f this indeed is accurate can we reely expect 67 000 supporters wen we probably dont have that number who actually even know much of the game in scotland????? Its a sad truth, i would definitly pay for the game against italy but as a student in liverpool, travelling and accomodation costs get astronomical. however i will be in the pub on saturday howling like i was indeed ther at murrayfield!!
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Comment 1 ~
What pro tema policy. Are you one of the number of poor people that believe we should go back to amaturism. I can really see that working agaisnt the rest of the world with guys like Carter working in the gym 30 hours to one of our guys getting a few nights training at his local club with a game on Saturday.
The SRU is doing its best with limited resources but the biggest problem the SRU face is do with with so called fans waiting in the shadows ready to pounce on the SRU fail if professionalism fails screaming " I told you so". Everyone else in the world has accepted rugby needs to be professional except here in backwater where people are willing to aid the destruction of rugby in Scotland so they gget their pound of flesh.
I must be an oddity in Scotland as I support my country, my pro team and play with muy local team, all of which I am able to do easily without feeling betrayed by the SRU week in and week out as they try there best to keep rugby alive despite of the so called fans .
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I suppose you will complain about an empty Murrayfield when we play the All Blacks in the world cup, but who among us will HONESTLY be happy to pay 拢160 a ticket. The SRU are pricing themselves out the market for the ordinary supporter.
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I'd love to be there, but the practicalities of travelling + cost simply make it impossible. The ticket price in itself certainly isn't too high for most people when compared with, say, a Scottish premier league football match...but for me, personally, when combined with transport costs, etc...
ah well. The shame of relative penury!
And fair's fair, guys, Scotland are at least trying to play half-decent rugby.
When we can find a replacement for The Liability Kid (aka Marcus Di Rollo), we might finally get somewhere...? maybe??
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Never been to Murrayfield, but it seems to me it's going to be quite some time before you see flowing ball in hand rugby up there....You have to admire the Scots...gritty, expert at living off scraps, all heart, but for spectators....hmmm.
Also, a dry stadium? My own favourite is the Stadio Flaminio....so if it's a toss up between linguini and a glass or two of chianti in Rome or a soggy cheese sandwich and a tin of iron brew in Edinburgh, well....no contest
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I go to Murrayfield on average twice a year to watch internationals. Lucky enough to see the France/England/SA wins. I would have no issue paying for my tickets and then seeing 10,000 being given away to school/university to fill the grounds for the Italy type games. A dead Murrayfield is crap, its the atmosphere for the big games that keeps me going back for more.
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Where does your price of 拢160 to see the All Blacks come from? I've bought tickets for all four of Scotland's World Cup games (2 at Murrayfield and 2 in St Etienne) for a total cost of 拢83. That strikes me as a bargain for cheering on my team in one of the biggest sporting events in the world.
I will also be there on Saturday for the Italy game. Best of luck to Frank and the boys.
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Well said Stewart.
I find it very difficult to defend our national stereotype of being 'tight Scots' when we can't fill a 67,000 stadium to watch our brave, over-achieving boys put their bodies on the line against all the odds to compete at the top level.
I wonder what keeps them motivated when they endiure the toughest training sessions and give everything only to look into the stands and see empty seats at their national stadium because 20,000 people aren't willing to pay 40 quid for a ticket to support them.
Where's our Scottish 'passion'? Football fans spend half their wages EVERY WEEK to support their teams, but the 'relatively' rich rugby supporters won't do it half a dozen times a year. Pathetic. Get out, spend a wee bit of money, and back your national team!
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#11 - ageed.
#1 - Nick Faulds. Can you not see that the interdenpendency between the elite game and the club game?
#18 - Mairi - whilst I agree that the ticket prices are prob too high for the ABs WC game - the SRU didn't set the ticket prices for the World Cup. All the other group games including the top two seeds in each group have similar ticket prices. Plus thats irrelevant here. The fact is that fan have complained in the past about AI/6N ticket prices - and the SRU have responded by lowering prices - IMO 拢20/拢10 for the Italy game is very reasonably priced.
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I rarely miss a day at murrayfield through choice but this year with it being a super saturday and the kick-off times so close together i'll watch from my armchair. Ireland v England at Croke is a massive occasion and i don't want to miss a second of it.
I'd prefer to see the kick-off times spread out a bit, the 大象传媒 have been a bit greedy in my opinion. Give the fans at the games a chance to get to a pub/home to watch the full game.
What's wrong with 2pm, 5pm, 8pm
that way there would be a clear hour between games.
Murrayfield also needs to have beer available inside the ground, have more big screens to watch the other games on and I still think they need to reduce ticket prices cos there isn't the demand - give tickets to schools and clubs for free.
It's difficult in a season when we have two other, more attrctive home games - where the ticket prices are higher. I spent a lot two weekends ago watching the Wales game - and was saving my mmoney for the Ireland game if I can get hold of a ticket.
which brings me to another point. The Ireland game is sold out - but there are plenty of tickets avaiable on e-bay/ticket web-site at inflated prices, the SRU needs to do more to prevent this.
And finally - 拢160 for a ticket for the NZ game, you're having a giraffe!
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The big crowds at Murrayfield for the more minor matches will happen again. But only if the Scotland team continue to improve resultswise and the sports media lessens its all encompassing football bias a little. In Scotland we have to work harder at engendering an interest in rugby simply because of a smaller population and the above media issue.
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I think you'll find that another reason for a low attendance is down to the SRU again! This weekend is a standby weekend where any postponed games over the winter have to be replayed, hence missing out out the rugby playing public, club officials, etc... atending
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As an exile down in London I have been travelling up for matches for the last 17 years and would say that I and many like me are being put off by unfriendly kick off times, particularly when games are played on a Sunday. A rugby international, particularly when you watch/endure Scotland, is about the atmosphere and occassion as much as the game itself for many of us and I don't think that is considered when scheduling games.
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To Nick #1,
It's great that people back their own amateur rugby clubs. But to the best of my knowledge, there are no fixtures this weekend, and pro-rugby is absolutely necessary if the future of Scottish rugby is to have any kind of meaning. You dont want to ruck up and watch Edinburgh, or Glasgow or the Borders, that's your choice, and that's fine. But dont think for a minute that those players would be back in amateur club sides if the three teams went somewhere all of a sudden. They'd just move to England or France.
It's been nearly 12 years- Professionalism is here to stay. Dont like it? Too bad, but I hope you're reconciled to it.
This is the national team, and these fellas deserved to be paid for their efforts.
If you and your ilk dont come, that will be too bad. But we cant say as we'll miss you.
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comment 18 - Your point is invalid. Its the french who aset the ticket prices. Its is the same for Paris and Cardiff.
The SRU board (or whoever decides what to do with the tickets) are idiots, there no getting around the fact that teh Scotland Italy games is not that attractive and there will, going on past ticket sales be 10000 left. Solution? Give the tickets to schools and get the kids involved.
#11 Bob, our small clubs i.e not Prem 1-3 or clubs with money Morgan, Dumfries etc. are dying. Bigger clubs are poaching smaller clubs players and there is not a lot of younger players coming through. So why shouldn't we give our rugby clubs (who do so much for players) our money on a day like Saturday?
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The top price for an AB vs Scotland ticket is 164 when bought as a non group price
+ 11 pounds booking gives you 拢175 but dont blame the SRU , the IRB and FFR have picked the prices saying it is one of the top 5 games of the tournamnet, but it is more expensive than France vs Ireland and SA vs England - strange that.
The SRU have tried to change the tickets but they cannot and will be left with a half empty stadium.
Im all for shouting at the SRU when they do something wrong but thats is becoming less and less but people seem unwilling to forgive for past debts.
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It's a shame more people don't feel the passion that once filled Murrayfield but we have to be honest about the state of Scottish Rugby - and i'm not talking international.
While i agree its vital to get kids into the game it's just as important that we learn to encourage all ages and levels to play and support the game. Too many players (myself included) finish school only to move around (uni/travelling/work etc) and lose contact with the game. Has anyone else tried finding a team to play for recently - just getting hold of them in some areas can be hard enough and little to no support is provided to allow players to return.
On a seperate issue why is it that Edinburgh Rugby feel they can charge 拢15 per game and in Glasgow a season ticket only costs 拢45!
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As a close friend said to me before coming back to Scotland for a 2 week break, "Pay 拢40 to watch 80 mins of rugby, with a possibility of a defeat for Scotland in a dry stadium or pay 拢60 to watch 2 and half days of sevens in Hong Kong at the end of March, with great entertainment, food and drinks?"
Ok, it's an unfair comparison, two different products.
But for 拢40, one does expect a bit more value (not interms of the quality or entertainment of the rugby, there are many factors that can affect that, not least the weather) but what additional events could the SRU puts on for the public before and after the game against Italy.
It's not about the one game is it?
What about hospitality tents to watch the remaining two matches within Murrayfield? Surely money spent on drinks and food would be better in Murrayfield's pockets than in pubs around the Raeburn Place. (Councillors take note, at least it goes some way to clearing the debt!)
So for 拢40 you get to watch Scotland play, and then for the same ticket, get access to the tents to watch the remaining two matches that day in a rugby orientated atmosphere. Now that would be supporting rugby surely?
Now pass legislation to ban that most overated sport played/watched/takled about in Scotland, football, and then we would be able to expand our talent pool/spectator pool for rugby and other worthier sports.
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My wife and myself were in Glasgow at the time of the Scotland v Australia match in November. Being from Cardiff we were looking forward to experiencing the game in a Scottish pub and made our way to a famous chain pub on Sauchihall Street. We planned to watch the Wales v All Blacks which followed. The pub was full mainly with men, but apart from my wife and myself only about 5 other people watched the game, and 2 of them left at half time! Nobody cheered when Scotland scored. When we asked why nobody was interested we were told "Scotland is a footballing nation". That seemed to be a good enough excuse. Well, Wales is a rugby nation, but when the Welsh football team are playing the pubs are full, everyone watches the game and cheers on the team. I found it a very depressing situation and when the Wales match wasn't shown at the expense of the football results, we left to watch the game in our hotel room.
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Attacking the professional teams for the state of Scottish rugby is ludicrious. Perhaps there could be improvements but can you imagine the state of the game without that route being taken?
Murrayfield is great but for what you get its just too expensive. Sell beers at internationals and drop ticket prices by half as much again.
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Re: David, no.30
I wholeheartedly agree that smaller rugby clubs should be supported, but we're talking about TWO or THREE home 6 Nations matches per year, plus one or two other home internationals.
It IS possible to give your money/commitment to your home club the majority of the time AND also from time to time getting down to Murrayfield to cheer on the players who deserve your support. Don't you realise that Scotland are doing unbelievably well on the international stage considering their resources and player base? Be proud and show it by going to matches and letting the players know their hard work and passion is appreciated.
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It is a tough one, where does fanatacism (I take it that is where the word "fan" came from) end and logical economic reason (bang for your buck) begin.
Feedback here (and therefore indirectly) to the SRU certainly seems to indicate, that they have been guilty in the past of pricing themselves "out of the market" so as to speak.
That said 20 spuds to see Scotland play against Italy, is not much. Gosh it would be worth watching any degree of professional rugby at that rate.
So I think honours are even on the blame front. True the rugby in the past has been poor and ticket prices simply did not reflect this, but I think all Scottish supporters would agree that there has been an improvement in the standard of rugby. I am more expectant to see a Scotland win at home than I was before, and now that the seem prices more reasonable I fail to understand why fans should not attend.
I would suggest a couple of remedies to the SRU. Cast your net wider. Scots in Scotalnd approx 3 million, this does make comparison to Twickenham a bit daft?? Scots outside Scotland - how many? Of those how many are likely to wait until Scotland play away to watch them, rather than fork out out on travel and accomadation. Bit of a dangerous strategy under current away form, I agree.
So if I were in the marketing/ sales department of the SRU, I would be working with hotels, rail companies even the scottish tourist board, to provide packages which include match tickets. I would then spend money on money advertising that, rather than spending money on silly little guys with spears and swords before matches. I.e. provide people with more bang for their buck.
If I was still short of numbers I would go with what was said in the earlier threads, game seats have an exceedingly short shelf life. If they are not full for the game it is money lost, its that simple. Therefore, slash the price on the day or give it away the tickets to schools and increase the fan base.
That said at least the 大象传媒 is doing its bit to ensure that the fans do go matches to watch the game, as they are unlikely to see anything of the game if recent coverage is to go by. As for commentary "Bring Back Bill"!!!
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Perhaps the fact that there are 3 six nations games to watch this Saturday is having an effect on ticket sales? If I were to go to the Scotland game, then I'd not get to watch properly the other games on Satuday, and I'm afraid, I'd rather watch 3 games from the comfort of my home, than attend the one Scotland game.
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Being a Welsh supporter and having travelled up to edinburgh for the Scotland v Wales game i was shocked and disappointed at the lack of atmosphere within the ground. I know it was not the best of games (certainly from a Welsh perspective) but i would have thought the Scottish fans would have been a little more enthused (and these were the ones that turned up!!). I was also surprised to see many Scottish fans leaving well before the end of the game.
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I always like this debate because I wonder myself just what the causes are for the low attendances and how the faults might be fixed.
It's obvious that for many people there are different causes, from disaffection with the SRU over treatment of clubs, to the expense of it all.
But the point that a couple of you make - Dee in number 7 and Martin number 6, strike a chord with me.
Rugby in Scotland clearly does need all the promotion it can get. All sports do when they are being stifled by the overwhelming interest in, and coverage of, football.
The difference in countries like England is that with a population of close to 60 million, there will always be enough people to follow all sports in significant number. Even with football so dominant.
Unlike England, Scotland, with a population of some 5 million, needs 'cross-over' fans.
Interestingly, tickets for this weekend's game against Italy are pretty much what you could expect to pay for a standard game a few hundred yards away at Tynecastle.
But 'I'm not really a rugby man' is what I hear from the driver almost every time I take a taxi to Murrayfield in an international week.
It's so often one and not the other. Why not both?
Reading John Beattie's blog I wonder how many people in Scotland follow both the round ball and the oval ball?
Sadly it may well still depend on where you went to school. Look at the make-up of the quarter-finalists in the Scottish Schools Cup.
I was fortunate enough to go to a state school in Marr College where you could play both but I do often wonder how many other State Schools don't offer rugby at all?
Rugby is sadly still an elite sport in Scotland and with a country that size, you can't afford elitism.
PS - Rory (number 16). The country that Frank Hadden refers to quite often is Madagascar. Scotland has just under 9 thousand senior male rugby players while over 11 thousand are registered in the island off the South-East coast of Africa.
I once spent a long time looking at The IRB's website and records of how many people play rugby in various countries.
If you are as sad as me, pick an international union from the top right hand of this page and have a look:
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It's all about marketing the product and looking to make a day out wether with the kids in tow or not ! but the problem is trying to get something to eat or drink is quite frankly a joke, what is it 4 caravans at the back of the stadium !
The price tag is not just about the 80 mins !!!
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The 拢20 per ticket price is a bit misleading, this will get you a seat right up in the gods in the corner where you will only see white dots running around the field. To get a decent seat in the middle you are talking 拢60
The big problem for me with watching any live match is that you pay a lot for the tickets and you don't know what product you are going to get. I was at Murrayfield last year for Scotland v France as a friend managed to get 1/2 price 拢60 tickets and enjoyed myself a lot more than I expected to!
On the other hand, I have also been to Murrayfield to watch Scotland lose to Argentina in the pouring rain in November, which was enough to put anyone off! I think Scotland fans are still hampered by memories of the Matt Williams era when visiting teams regularly handed out thrashings. Hopefully, with Scotland playing better these days, people will start to come back.
However, it is sadly true that Scotland is a footballing nation. The absence of any big rugby teams in places like Aberdeen, Stirling and Dundee and poor attendances at matches for Glasgow, Edinburgh and Borders speaks for itself.
It is also noticeable driving around Scotland that you rarely see a rugby field outside of Edinburgh and border towns like Galashiels and Hawick, while football pitches are everywhere. They need to get rugby into more state schools to make it proper national sport.
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I'm welsh and I remember the WRU resorting to selling tickets for the RWC warm ups in 2003 in supermarkets (How desperate is that!). Made me feel daft as I'd been on ticketmaster the second they became available weeks before. On the day the attendence v Scotland was still shocking but it was the first time we'd beaten a home nation in 3 years.
Within 3 months we'd played those dazzling RWC games against NZ and England and tickets became nigh impossible again. I went to the 2004 games against Romania and Japan, in the Grand Slam season and couldn't get tickets again for ages.
Crowds come to watch successful teams. It is that simple.
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The 拢20 per ticket price is a bit misleading, this will get you a seat right up in the gods in the corner where you will only see white dots running around the field. To get a decent seat in the middle you are talking 拢60
The big problem for me with watching any live match is that you pay a lot for the tickets and you don't know what product you are going to get. I was at Murrayfield last year for Scotland v France as a friend managed to get 1/2 price 拢60 tickets and enjoyed myself a lot more than I expected to!
On the other hand, I have also been to Murrayfield to watch Scotland lose to Argentina in the pouring rain in November, which was enough to put anyone off! I think Scotland fans are still hampered by memories of the Matt Williams era when visiting teams regularly handed out thrashings. Hopefully, with Scotland playing better these days, people will start to come back.
However, it is sadly true that Scotland is a footballing nation. The absence of any big rugby teams in places like Aberdeen, Stirling and Dundee and poor attendances at matches for Glasgow, Edinburgh and Borders speaks for itself.
It is also noticeable driving around Scotland that you rarely see a rugby field outside of Edinburgh and border towns like Galashiels and Hawick, while football pitches are everywhere. They need to get rugby into more state schools to make it proper national sport.
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I think that it is a catch 22 situation. People dont want to go watch Scotland particularly, mainly because they are not the best in the six nations and they can not guarentee any wins. But if people started getting really behind them and SRU got a lot more money through tickets sales better youth development will take place and the future team will be very good. I am a poor student in Glasgow but I make the effort to go. England and France game last year . Wales and Italy this year.
Mon the Scots!!!
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I bought a Scottish package for all four group games in the World Cup for 拢165. There were cheaper options.
But with games against Repechage 1, Romania and Italy among the package it's pretty clear that most people would rank the All Blacks ticket as a pretty large slice of that 拢165.
I bought the Scottish package because I didn't get in quickly enough for an England one and when I did I didn't like the price. So I'm supporting Scotland from September.
By the way I haven't been to Murrayfield before. Can anyone tell me how to get to the stadium from the airport or the railway station. How easy is it. How much walking is involved.
I might even try out for the Italy game because while I'm still an England fan (until September) I'm certainly not paying 1,000 Euros plus to a tout to see England at Croker.
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There is very liitle covergae of the Pro teams and the domestic game so it is not surprising that the interest is dropping.
There is no engagement within our local schools and hence over a generation you lose potential supporters.
I'll be there though.
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Before professionalism and all this "commercialised" organisation of SRU, did Murrayfield not used to be full to bursting for EVERY 5 Nations match in the days when the capacity was greater due to 3 sides of terracing??
(It was often a little higher than capacity due to the gap in the fence at the clock end :o))
I remember going to see Scotland v Spain one Easter Sunday and even then, the stadium must have been half full.
So, we commercialise and professionalise a sport and, all of a sudden, it needs promotion?? How's that happened?
Don't get this wrong - those old matches were on the telly & shown in pubs & clubs and Scotland weren't, with the best will in the world, awfully good.
Arguments that we're a footballing nation can't hold much water, either. We were a (much better) footballing nation back then and still had the turn-out at Murrayfield. I think the West Coast is more of a footballing nation.
I don't get the argument that people stay away because they don't expect to see Scotland doing well or they might not see the game. As a 10-year-old, I couldn't see much at all but I still went to every game and soaked up the atmosphere. I seem to remember one match when we couldn't see half the scoring due to the fog! Still, the passion of the crowd was immense.
Very depressing reading that people aren't filling the stadium for every big game.
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Before professionalism and all this "commercialised" organisation of SRU, did Murrayfield not used to be full to bursting for EVERY 5 Nations match in the days when the capacity was greater due to 3 sides of terracing??
(It was often a little higher than capacity due to the gap in the fence at the clock end :o))
I remember going to see Scotland v Spain one Easter Sunday and even then, the stadium must have been half full.
So, we commercialise and professionalise a sport and, all of a sudden, it needs promotion?? How's that happened?
Don't get this wrong - those old matches were on the telly & shown in pubs & clubs and Scotland weren't, with the best will in the world, awfully good.
Arguments that we're a footballing nation can't hold much water, either. We were a (much better) footballing nation back then and still had the turn-out at Murrayfield. I think the West Coast is more of a footballing nation.
I don't get the argument that people stay away because they don't expect to see Scotland doing well or they might not see the game. As a 10-year-old, I couldn't see much at all but I still went to every game and soaked up the atmosphere. I seem to remember one match when we couldn't see half the scoring due to the fog! Still, the passion of the crowd was immense.
Very depressing reading that people aren't filling the stadium for every big game.
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Get the No.100 bus from the airport, 拢3 single, 拢5 open return. Every 10 minutes. Goes right past the ground. Minimal walking. See you in September!
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Re: Steve King No. 30:
That's Glasgow city centre mate. In a chain pub to boot. You were never going to find a rugby crowd in there. It'd be full of Celtic and Rangers fans who can't see anything past football. Next time your up head to a students' union you'll get a good mix of the nationalities and a decently knowledgable crowd.
On the original topic. I'm in exile in England too. It's sad to see that we can't fill Murrayfield for a 6 nations game.
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As an English supporter, I was gobsmacked to hear that Murrayfiled will only be half full on Saturday. My wife and I always like to visit Edinburgh once a year and always arrange to be there when Scotland have a match. But this time, without any atmosphere, may well be the last time. Unlike Scottish supporters, most of whom would never support England, I will be supporting Scotland, but I may be the only one there doing so. Shame on you Scots! By the way, for all those of you worrying about the Ireland-England match, you can always record it.
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Reasons why I won't be at Murrayfield.
1) A disliking of the SRU
2) The game is on tv
3) My local rugby club is about a half mile from my house. Edinburgh is 40 miles away.
4) I can spend 拢20 on lager & the other 拢20 saved on petrol, I can spend on more lager
5) Italy are not exactly exciting opponents
6) Was there a point to this blog??
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Regarding a return to amateurism over professionalism. How can people say the Scottish Pro Teams have improved rugby in Scotland? None of our teams are as good as the 'Super 14s', and in my humble opinion they are rubbish as well. I had the misfortune of watching a 'Super 14s' match last weekend, I have never seen so many dropped balls, squint throws, squint feeds, poor kicks, uninventive running lines, missed overlaps, forward passes, I could go on, since watching local county league games. Bring back amateur rugby and some actual skills!
Rugby always was and always should be a players game, not a supporters or spectators game. Bring back some of the old laws, i.e. a real contest for the ball and you will see real fans returning. Also, remove the stupid rules brought in that mean league games are played at the same time as Internationals, then players could play in the morning, or night before, and still go to the International. I will alays opt to play rather than watch a match, even if you think I am not a real Scotland fan for doing so!
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it dosen't matter about club teams or pro teams on saterday it only matters that we all go along and show our support for our country. i go to every Scotland game that comes to Murryfeild and ther is nothing better than seeing 67000 people in it.even if they loose you should still go and show your support.and it's not like it is to expesive whats 拢20 to go and whach your country.
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Before professionalsim Rugby used to be on TV
When asked good old 大象传媒 told me if I wanted to watch Magners League rugby buy Sky.
Thanks Ewan Angus of 大象传媒 Scotland way to sell the corperation.
Rugby gets less TV in Scotland than athletics
We get the Melrose 7's and the 6N
and thats it so no wonder people dont know rugby exists. 大象传媒 Scotland is run by west coast football heided numpties who would rather have 大象传媒 licence payers pay for SKy than support local sport.
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Actually, I recall hearing Italian numbers of travelling supporters were up to five thousand in 'Fortress Twickers' (ugh). So, if that was accurate, that's a pretty large number for the newest nation in the competition.
No, the poor Scottish performances of recent years will not have helped. And no, it's not ideal filling the stadium with school kids- they do screech and squeal, not least during opponents' place kicks, which is a very poor show indeed. So you're spot on there.
Murrayfield needs the punters back. Looking forward to the game, though.
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Its a lose lose situation.
If Scotland win who cares? They are supposed to win.
If they win gloriously.. well they wont so lets discount that.
If Italy win, would you really want to be there?
Maybe if Bonnie Langford sang a tribute to Lena Zavaroni the allegedly huge numbers of Ice Cream making Scottish Italians would turn up. They are the only ones in a win win situation.
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Once Scotland play a type of rugby WORTH watching, ticket sales will go up.
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Andrew - do the math. England has ten times the population of Scotland.
Therefore, 55,000 at Murrayfield would equate to 550,000 at Twickenham.
Simple - we're a smaller country. In fact the attendances we get (for a minority sport) are remarkable for positive reasons.
Thistle.
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Why is everyone complaining about travel costs? Look at the size of our country compaired to France and England. Don't tell me the population of the respective cities hold their entire fan base.
If this is the reason you can't cough up 拢20/拢40 then maybe you need to look for better jobs!
Maybe we should be lobbying to our Government to invest in national public transport to lower the costs to meet the Scottish Rugby fan base.
Also, we need to join the rest of the rugby nations in serving the clients as best as possible and to keep us as warm as possible in a fairly cold stadium. Start licenced vending! We aren't football fans and that's a fact. It's a joy to sit beside opposing fans and share good chat with a drink, it's what brings out the songs and raises the atmosphere.
One of the best games I attended was the Heineken Cup Final with Toulouse and Stade Francais with a beer in hand. Great atmosphere!
SRU, think about the fans and our wishes. Secondly think about your lost revenue at the moment!
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I am also an exile living in Bath which is Englands real rugby heartland, and on reading these messages I can't help thinking that perhaps Murrayfield would be fuller if we all lived back home.
So much for following the shilling.
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I'm going back to a Scotland game for the first time in three years. I couldn't get a ticket for the Ireland game, but I still pleased to be going to an international, because the last time I went, we were thumped 31-0 by France and my Dad vowed not to go back until we improved. I just hope we have.
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It is unfair to berate potential supporters of the game in Scotland, now that we are long into the professional era. Given the sums of money involved in making the trek to Murrayfield, it is not unreasonable to expect the supporter to enjoy a performance that justify's the cost involved.I don't criticise the players, as I appreciate that they make huge efforts, and put their bodies on the line. This is despite, and not because, of the SRU who have been utterly dire in their management and promotion of the game in Scotland at all levels. Any one remember why Budge Poutney departed? I travel from England from time to time to support the game in Scotland.However the limited dealings that I have had with the SRU in obtaining tickets, which was an utter shambles, is enormously frustrating. If they can't get the small things right, then the team cannot hope to prosper in the long term.The fact that the SRU carries a reported 拢23M debt smacks of financial mismanagement. The fact that they are unable to fill the stadium says evereything about the SRU and not the team... have they heard of pricing and supply and demand?
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I try to attend as many matches at Murrayfield as possible. However, for many rugby supporters in Scotland a trip to Murrayfield is a weekend break. Those who have to travel from the Highlands & Island face a long journey not to mention a costly one. Those on the South-West are no different. With the last train home to Aberdeen at a shameful 8:00pm on Saturday night, why should those who don't live in the central belt or borders make the momumental effort to watch Italy? When we are lucky enough to have the All Blacks, England, France or South Africa then it becomes more worthwhile. Added to this is that with televsion dictating when the games are played, it is often not possible for many a fan to go and return from Edinburgh for a Sunday night game! Better public transport would make a massive difference, and perhaps in the case of a sell out - the only option would be to stay at home!
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Firstly on the pro teams in scotland - I feel that the SRU did the best thing. The likes of Melrose, Hawick, Heriots and Stirling etc would never compete with Tolouse, Leinster and Wasps etc, so well done to the SRU for fighting through the unfortunate amount of flak and presenting to us the professional game. Secondly - if you are a rugby person at all, then get out there and support your country. I can't believe people are arguing about cost of tickets. The forthcoming 6 nations game against Italy could be a good game based on last form from both teams, but come on rugby people of Scotland - stop this nonsense and support your country and of course the game of rugby here in Scotland. We do great as a small nation and don't forget - it's true - we are the best small country in the world. Best wishes to frank and all his players and background staff. I'll be there and proud to be there too. Just a final point based on cost as it seems important to many Scots. I took my 2 sons aged 12 and 10 to Twickenham in February. The tickets were priced at 拢65 per ticket - no concession. Now I understand supply and demand etc, but there were 82,000 people there. A decision is required - do we support the game here in Scotland or don't we ?
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Maybe if the Scottish Executive would allow alcohol to be sold at Murrayfield (this isn't the SRU's decision) there might be a bit of an increase in numbers. I'd rather watch it in the pub.
As for prices, they aren't that bad. Just think how over-priced the SPL is and yet, Hibs, Hearts and other smaller teams still regularly get big attendances.
Also, would I be the first to point out that the SRU's ticketing website is AWFUL?!
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the rugby team is going through the same transition the football team went through during and after the berti vogts era. until the fans are guaranteed that heart and soul will be given by the players theyre not gonna waste money on something they can watch at home.
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Isn't it our place as supporters to SUPPORT our team through thick and thin, if we win, lose or draw??????
I'll be there on Saturday getting right behind our boys. They deserve it for one and i suppose the amount of tickets sold is a lot better than the embarrasing 12,000 that turned up in November to see the match aainst Romania you could buy a ticket for as little as 拢5.
I agree a lot more advertising and marketing has to be done I live in Glasgow and you dont see anything advertising the national team or pro teams and considering there is one in Glasgow thats pretty bad.
Top football clubs even lower league clubs can pull in this attendance or more every week, week in week out, so why cant we pull it in 5/6 times a year?????? Its a disgrace!!!!!!
As for blaming people well were to blame as much as anyone else - most with the attitude of being glory hunters really - only wanting to know when the team is doing well. Well it has got that way for a reason and that is because of the supporters instilling will into the players who in return instill pride into the nation who in turn support the team and so on!!!!!!!!!!
I even travelled through to Edinburgh from Glasgow and waited 7 hours in Edinburgh Airport on the 19th March last year when they got back from Rome to congratulate the team on their best ever 6 nations. To say they were surprised to see 2 people waiting to welcome them back was an understatement. How come people can turn out in masses for football teams even the Commonwealth games team got a big reception at Glasgow Airport but the Rugby squad cant????? I also went back to see them off to South Africa and on their return. When Mike Blair asked us where we were going and we said nowhere just here to see you guys he was touched and shocked that people had made the effort.
As for the excuse of the other games are so close together and its super saturday and this that the next thing big deal do ya really think thats stopping people in the other countries turning out to support THEIR national team
Its time as a nation to support and be proud of our nation no matter what sport or other event that it is instead of finding the negative in it like 'oh well they'll lose anyway so whats the point'
All that said I'll be at the game and will have a great day
COME ON SCOTLAND
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We are in the professional era now and support for the game will only be measured by results, pure and simple. The amateur game was different,supporters recognised this and were perhaps more inclined through sentimentality to overlook poor results. After all, players were not being paid, I doubt in Scotland at least.
The fundemental problem is that there is a crippling lack of ambition in the game, and this stems from the SRU, and is fed by the Scottish pysche.This is in the sense that success of the game is measured by how the team performs against England.
To fill Murrayfield regularly there needs to be real ambition from within, and an express desire and belief that the big three can competed with, and beaten regularly. If the focus remains simply on beating the English, then the bar will simply not be raised sufficiently high enough for the right results to be achieved. Achieve success against the teams that really matter at the moment and the game can flourish.
I do not buy this small nation baloney. It was not so long ago that the Irish were the whipping boys of the northern hemisphere, and look what they achieved last autumn?
Personally, I believe Mr Hadden has done an excellent job in testing circumstances. However the SRU must shake off the vestiges of amateurism, and provide the necessary ambition, drive and leadership on all levels. Do this,results will follow and support will increase dramatically.
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Joey:
"I think when scotland start playing rugby worth watching, spectator numbers
will increase....."
I thought that Scotland played pretty good rugby against Wales. Italy are a good side this year and the match could be really close. (Tip - Italy might be worth a punt to beat Ireland)
As an Englishman, I'm actually quite tempted to travel over for the match, and enjoy the attractions of Edinburgh, but I suspect Easyjet will be full.
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To Dee (blog entry 7) - just a comment about grass-roots rugby and it being seen as an upper-class game. Maybe once it was, but not any more - certainly in my local area, kids from all backgrounds participate in minis. And as for your nephew's parents who can't be bothered to take their son on a whole 25 minute journey early on a Sunday morning (what else are they doing?) - what hope is there for kids if parents have an attitude like that? I take my son here, there and everywhere to play different sports - it's his future, his health and his happiness. What better incentive could a parent want?
kev.
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To #68
Alasdair - disagree completely.
I would be with you if you had likened the reign of previous coach Matt Williams to that of Bertie Vogts.
However since Hadden's arrival, although results have been mixed, when the team has played at Murrayfield (perhaps with the exception of Oz in November), they have displayed huge commitment, and put their bodies on the line time after time. Perhaps the style of rugby could be more entertaining, but you could not ask for any more 'heart and soul'...and surely that is the most important thing....?
Get out there and support the team folk...and please stop complaining about ticket prices. You may have had a case two years ago...but no more.
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It cost me 拢180 for four tickets for the Scotland-Wales game, and I haven't been paid again. How much will Andrew Cotter pay to get into the match this weekend?
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It serves the Scottish Rugby Union right for thier high - handed attitude. Most people in Scotland are far more interested in Saturday's unique sporting & historical encounter at Croke Park.
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As an Irishman who does a lot of work in scotland I have been struck by the significant lack of interest in rugby. From what I can see Scotland is a football nation first and foremost. It's a shame because the Scottish rugby team has done some great things over the years. The current trend in low attendance goes back a number of years and didn't just happen over night. I don't think many turned out for the world cup matches in Murrayfield in '99 and this was the year that scotland won the six nations!!!
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The atmosphere at Murrayfield is poor. Too many barbours and grey-haired debenture holders that seem too reserved to put passion into supporting their side. It's frustrating to watch your national side when it just feels flat. And (although not relevant for this argument) when Swing Low, or Land of my Fathers can drown out Flower of Scotland coming from the stands, it's even more depressing.
A lot of people are probably put off with the perceived ticket prices. The SRU, god bless em, do a good job but I've been conned with adverts before saying tickets from 拢20 only to find that you go onto the site only to find that there are none of the 200-odd 拢20 tickets left and before you know it the prices are up at 拢35/拢40. So when they advertise ticket prices that seem cheap for the Italian game then it's almost like the boy who cried wolf. For the big games the corporate hospitality has snapped up all the tickets then the SRU expect the rugby faithful to turn out for the games that they are struggling to get capacity...
Whilst Scotland are not playing attractive rugby or showing any creativity I'll stick to watching the telly at home or in the pub, thanks. Oh and 拢164 a ticket to watch Scotland get a humping by New Zealand in the world cup, anyone?
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Perhaps if the rest of Edinburgh stopped doubling and even trebeling the price of their hotel rooms on Six Nations weekends you would get more exiles (like me) who would travel North for the game. My husband and I were at the Wales game two weeks ago (he is Welsh). We purchaed the tickets in September - 拢120 for two tickets was bad enough. Add to that the cost of the cheapest available hotel room (booked in September) of a couple of hundred quid, plus the cost of travel and we could have had a couple of weeks in Greece with all the Ouzo we wanted. Perhaps Edinburgh needs to realise the Scottish Empire and Scottish rugby support does not begin and end in the Lothians, where the population is less than half a million and even 10% of the entire population would not fill Murrayfield, and make better provision for travelling support.
Better facility provision on the day would help - a few tiny food/drinks vans are totally inadequate to provide for a capacity crowd. To queue for a coffee to warm up on the 10th of February would have caused us to miss at least 15 minutes of the game (as well as half time)not what I have paid my 拢60 for! Get it better Murrayfield if you want the support!
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Scotland shouldn't be expecting to compete with England. England after all has ten times the population and rugby is played by a wider spectrum of that population but there is no reason we can't complete with the Irish. I cannot see why we would wish to go back to amateur days, the clocks can't be turned back but the SRU have seriously botched the Pro game and teams in Scotland, just as the SRU botch most things.
Watching Scotland v Italy is hardly the most attractive match and if i wasn't back in Scotland for a family party, I probably wouldn't bother to watch it on tv but instead go and watch one of my clubs sides play (recovering from broken fibula) so I can't blane those who don't want to pay to go to the ground to watch it.
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Simply cannot afford it. Travel, tickets, food and possibly hotel (if you can find one at huge prices) would end up costing my family around 拢400 for 1 night and a trip to the match. I can get a villa with a pool in the Canary Islands for 拢500 for a week.
You can watch it from the comfort of your own home, drink a wee glass or two of wine and be nice and warm.
Don't get me wrong, would love to come to every match as I have been many times before and the kids love it but a family holiday seems more exciting.
拢45 and 拢60 for good seats - nah!
GOOD LUCK ON SATURDAY BOYS - I'LL BE CHEERING FROM THE COMFORT OF MY HOME IN LANGHOLM
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There are a lot of dour comments up there about cost of the day, politics, quality of rugby being played etc etc. Grim stuff.
The six nations is a fantastic tournament and I know the 1990 grand slam is dim and distant memory but your current side is as good as it's been for a few years, they are also a young side and will undoubtadly get better. They totally outplayed Wales last week and don't forget they beat England and France last season.
So come on all you Scots, get yer cash out, buy a ticket, have a few beers and support your boys.
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Cotter - as No 60 states:
50,000 Scots on Saturday would mean about 1 in every 100 of the population attending.
82,000 in Twickenham - about 1 in every 600.
I'd say we're not doing too badly mathematically......
However you are right there is a malaise about rugby in Scotland - there are more players in Leicester's catchment area than the whole of Scotland (incl. schoolboys!)
We're very much a minority sport which has been poorly managed and promoted for years.
Murrayfield is a great stadium - maybe it's too big for our needs? - also SRU got in so much debt building it the funding for the current game is dire.
We used to take the mick out of Landsdowne road but the Irish were much smarter - take the 'dump' jibes on the chin, wait til Landsdowne was virtually falling down itself and then get heaps of government cash to help build the new one - no debt issue - who's daft now!
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please can u scots cheer up
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As an Ulster and Ireland fan (Note Scottish Surname)and even though my familyancestors have been in Ulster for centuries, I have a soft spot for the Scotland team.
I accept that club Rugby has suffered since professionalism but I think Scttish clubs have been slow to embrance the concept of Regional teams.
Although in Ulster, club rugby has suffered, Ulster have a very strong supporter base and Ravenhill have crowds nearing 10,000 fans at each Magners League match.
Don't blame the SRU for all your misfortunes.
The big problem is the small playing base and the small numbers of school boys playing Rugby. If the state schools aren't playing rugby, then it is crucial for the clubs to recruit and nurture the younsters of Scotland.
Irish fans have only one Grand slam in 1948 and Scottish fans should be proud to support their team
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As an Ulster and Ireland fan (Note Scottish Surname)and even though my familyancestors have been in Ulster for centuries, I have a soft spot for the Scotland team.
I accept that club Rugby has suffered since professionalism but I think Scttish clubs have been slow to embrance the concept of Regional teams.
Although in Ulster, club rugby has suffered, Ulster have a very strong supporter base and Ravenhill have crowds nearing 10,000 fans at each Magners League match.
Don't blame the SRU for all your misfortunes.
The big problem is the small playing base and the small numbers of school boys playing Rugby. If the state schools aren't playing rugby, then it is crucial for the clubs to recruit and nurture the youngsters of Scotland.
At the moment in Ireland, all the provinces have been attracting youngsters from non traditional Rugby playing areas and Schools and these players are being developed in the provincial academies.
In fact professional rugby is currently working well in Ireland.
Irish fans have only one Grand slam in 1948 and Scottish fans should be proud to support their team considering their past sucesses and the improvements to the current team under Frank Hadden.
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I don't see how a rugby match that doesn't really capture the imagination is any sort of indication of 'a lower interest in Sport in Scotland'. Football crowds are much higher than they were 10 years ago and are still growing year by year. The last British Open in Scotland (St Andrews) was a sell out, and the next one (Carnoustie) probably will be. I just think that rugby is not a very popular sport in Scotland. I remember watching the England v Scotland world cup semi final in 1991 in a pub and the game getting switched over for a race from Kelso! Not many people play it, which makes it very hard to understand (obviously the concept is easy enough, but the numerous technical laws leave many baffled) and even harder to enjoy. I can't ever see rugby capturing the public's imagination to the same scale as it does in the rest of the British Isles, and I don't see why this is necessarily a bad thing either, but let's not pretend this is a reflection of all sport in Scotland, which it clearly isn't.
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I think the SRU need to take a fair share of the blame. I have been a member of the Scotland Supporter's Club for a good few years. This used to guarantee me 2 tickets for every home game. This year I was offered only tickets for the Italy game and lost in a ballot for the other 2 matches, the Wales game was not even sold out when they told us we couldn't have tickets. If they won't allocate tickets to card holding fans then I'm afraid they don't deserve to fill the ground!
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I'm a football fan who generally doesn't pay any attention to rugby at all. This probably stems from the fact that rugby was never played at my school so I never took an intrest in it. However I do watch Scotland in the 6 nations and world cup and despite not knowing all the rules and Scotland not always playing well, I enjoy it. I've never been to a game (other than when Scotland came to australia while i happened to be there) as I'm put off by the 拢45+ prices but I'm tempted to go if i can get a ticket for 拢20!
Anyway, as mentioned by previous posters in order for Scotland to produce better players and more fans we need to introduce rugby of some sort (touch, sevens etc) to all schools so that all kids get a chance to play the game and if they like it can join a local club etc
Also I think all Scottish sport needs more investment in general as we seem to lag way behind other countries in terms of facilities.
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Thers so many things wrong with scottish rugby they wont be fixed in 20 years. im just hoping that were in a better place in 10 years time.
On a different note
Dont know about the rest of you but im May my vote will be given to the party thats willing to get more sports in school and better facilities around the country for sports. Where are the facilities for sports left, even football grounds seem to look like dumps.
We are a country of sport lovers supposedly and yet we have the fattest laziest unfittist kids in Europe. Its about time that we forced the government of this country into action instead of selling off sports grounds around schools to builders.
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Simon #25
What a rubbish excuse for not going to Murrayfield. How difficult is it to watch the other games in a nearby pub or on the big screens at the beer tent on the back pitches?
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I believe the problem lies firmly with the SRU. I have previously forked out large sums to get tickets to games that work commitments allow me to get to. The SRU have started linking tickets for autumn games whereby you have to buy tickets for two or more games. I believe the hope is to bolster attendance at the "lesser" games. As work commitments prevent me getting to succesive games I don't buy the linked tickets and watch what I can on TV, I am now out of the habit of going!
I also believe that ticket prices are excessive, Rugby is not a primary sport in Scotland, indeed I believe it has the smallest player base of any of the major rugby playing nations. Forty quid is a lot of cash to watch Italy. Surely it would be better to have Murrayfield full at half the current prices rather than the depressing rows of empty seats. If Murrayfield was regularly filled to the gunwhales as is Twickenham, Parkhead or Ibrox the RFU could charge what they want but when the place is only three quarters full it tells its own tale. Realistic pricing is required, get the place filled and lets have some more fantastic days out.
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I have to agree with the comment made by Scot re the all seater situation. Sure Rugby has the best Stadium in Scotland, but does rugby really need an all seater stadium. From what I hear ruby fans policed themselves very well and did not chase each other accross terraces to knock lumps out of each other.
On the drink front we all know that sport as a whole in Scotland was made the scapegoat for the Old Firms inability to control itself over the years. I`d go to Murrayfield if I new I could have a pint as I watched the match.
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The relentless negativity of many Scottish Rugby fans and writers over the past few years has no doubt had a depressing effect on all of Scottish Rugby. This coupled with a keenness to blame the SRU for everything, (Iraq, global warming etc), has meant that rugby supporters have perhaps not looked closely enough at themselves. If you want the game to be popular and well supported, then you have to support it! Personally I regret the "good old days" of standing when you could just roll up and walk in and, if you were tall enough, get a good view for a modest price.
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One pays for what one gets!
If you pay the demanded entry ticket price THEN fork out for the inflated Accommodation prices and increased beer prices prevalent in the land of the Jock at international matches--then you are someone who does that ONLY ONCE!!
Sorry folks! The public have a great sense of value, and currently that does not exist in Edinburgh when International Rugby comes to town!!
I am at Croke Park this weekend and Yes that Costs a shedload, but I just know I will have a good time, I will watch the match with several pints near to hand, and I will be watching cracking rugby--thats why a Scot is going to Dublin!!
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Valid points and opinions from one and all.
The over riding factor is the pompous and blinkered attitude of the SRU. Pricing policies such as linking Autumn Test matches together has proved a failure.Yes I have benefited from paying X amount and seeing one game half price, one game "free" & knowing that the rest had got me to see the All Blacks at Murrayfield, but it ws the only full capacity(several years ago now) & we know that half the folk at the other games were probably not the purchasers of the packages. We took our 12 year old to her first international against Rumania. A poor crowd did not dampen her enthusiasm but it was a far cry from my experiences as a twelve year old under the score board on the terraces in the howling wind watching some exciting 3 - 3 draw (remember those days?). Why don't the SRU give tickets (gratis) to schools who participate in rugby - & I don't mean Fettes or Dollar - encourage the kids to those matches they know they can't sell out. As for drinking in the ground. I'm not so sure that I want to pay close to three pound for some lukewarm product served in a classy plastic tumbler that is intolerant of taking any pressure placed upon it. So there you are cramped into your fifty quid seat, 拢3 progamme in one hand pint of eighty in the other, Mr rugby coach behind you pontificating on the way we should be playing the game and Scotland charge down the field....up we all go programms dropping down the back of the seats in front and our beers all over everyone. It's no wonder the pub is a more attractive option to many even if they do have to put up with mr Guscott
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If there are 55,000 fans at Murrayfield then the comparable figure for Twickenham should be 550,000. The population is 10 times greater. Lets be honest. Rugby is NOT a big sport in Scotland, more people play cricket up here than rugby. I wonder how many people would turn up for a shinty gane in England?
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We'll be there but not without a fight. Booking tickets on the SRU website is a challenge. Instead of putting in your request (in my case 3 adults + 4 u18) and getting the best seats available at different price points, you have to pick an area of the stadium and try your luck. Eventually you'll get a match but it can take a while. Not very intuitive.
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I have been supporting Scotland and been to every game that I could since the early 70's, and I would be there saturday for the Italian match if I wasn't living abroad at the moment. I've been there for all the losses, but Oh boy! when we win it makes up for all the rest.
It's the difference between support and watching it on TV with a couple of lagers, which isn't the same no matter how much you shout and scream.
A downward spiral in real support will leave us with just a televised annual drubbing by the other countries
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I dont understnad where apeople are comming up with some of this rubbish.
For the last 3 years I have managed to get tickets to all but one game (Sco vs Eng 2004) for the price of 拢30 for most games and 拢10 for the AI and 拢20 for the Italy game.
There was no ticket linking that I saw in the AI, you wanted to buy tickets for all three that was great, not you bought a single ticket.
50 000 will be great for the Italy game by 67 000 would be better.
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I have a pair of debenture tickets that I haven't used for 3 seasons now. I travel 240 miles round trip to Murrayfield, so with a friend it is about 拢100+ cost and a whole day to watch a game.
The occasion is great, but the standard of play which is often seen just isn't worth it.
Winning against Wales is good, but it wasn't a great game!
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45,000 is almost 1% of Scotlands resident population! I wonder how many other sporting events in any country attract 1% of the entire country's population - especially when it's not even the country's 1st sport...
Bear in mind Twickenham is on the edge of a city that has a population twice the size of the whole of Scotland, and is the national stadium for about 50 million people and you can see that 45,000 for what is still considered by many to be a "2nd string" game is not at all bad for Scotland.
Maybe the problem is that Murrayfield is a bit big for a minority sport in a small country?
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Dear Scottish fans don't warry about a possible quite empty stadium, 6.000 italians fans are coming in Edimburgh, there will be a great atmoshepere! It's incredibile that some much people start to travel to follow our national team, probably a lot of people tired of the football italian stadiums that want to discover the friendly atmoshere of a rugby match, I hope that we will win in a so prestiugius stadium, see you at Murrayfield!
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Lets not forget that a spectator or supporter will pay a fair price for entertainment but frankly thats not whats been on offer.
You only have to look at the cost of U2 or Stones concerts to see that if you give what the public, "they will follow".
I believe the SRU are pricing on the basis of a Grand Slam team, unfortunately its far short of that.
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Some very good comments, as a welshman living in edinburgh I have always wondered why rugby was not so popular given the sometimes dire football games of the spl which sell out week-in week-out. Especialy when considering how well you national rugby team is playing!
Rugby in all schools is a must, for the financial lon run viability fo rugby in scotland. Will also help the prof clubs, went to watch scarlets in glasgow the other week with under 1.5k people there and few young people... not ideal
Also agree with the writer of this article, I'm going to watch the game with my brother to support your national team (possibly cos ours is doing so badly and i wanted to see a win this season). The comparison with england filling twicks may not be a good one but wales filling the millenium stadium for games such as the pacific islanders?
Maybe some bars at murrayfield would drag more people out of the pubs and into the stands, particularly with the low tickt prices? Make it more of an afternoon out...
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I for one will be at the match tomorrow as this should be a really good game of rugby and promises a few tries. The lack of Italian support is an issue as part of the appeal of a game at Murryfield is the great fun to be had drinking with the opposition in one of Edinburghs fine pubs, in short making a weekend of it. Its always a little flat after an Italy game regardless of results, so people simply do not bother to travel to the match
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I personally believe that yet again,we are making a mountain out of a mole hill! the facts are that although italy are improving as a rugby side, there is not the same buzz of getting up in the morning to go and watch the azzuri compared to watching the other nations in the six nations. Why? Is it history between the sides, i mean we all have memories of great games from the 70's,80's etc. Do we remember even playing Italy? 50,000 is a great effort and as games go by between the sides the numbers will increase!
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luckyrugger #90
i was at murrayfield a fortnight ago and tried to watch the England v Italy game on the big screen. It was rubbish. One big screen outside meant you had to stand in the wind and rain watching the game. Plus the screen was of poor qulity. The 'big' screen inside the tent had no sound and you could bearly see the screen it was so light. No good at all.
Murrayfield's facilities leave a lot to be desired.
Fair enough i could try and get into the nearest pub with space in it - which can take a while to find let me assure you. Still i take your point, my excuse is rather flimsy - but the appeal of being able to watch all three games in one place, be that at home of in my preferred pub is too strong.
Having the games spread out a bit more just allows more flexibility for fans, which I'm all for.
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I will be at Murrayfield tomorrow along with my family and are looking forward to watching Scotland play and hopefully win against Italy. As a warm up to this, we will be at Falkirk Stadium tonight to watch the Scotland U20's take on the Italian U21's should be a fine match. Personally, I couldn't give a stuff about the other matches being played tomorrow, the only result I care about will be the one at Murrayfield.
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Simon #107
Yes I appreciate how difficult it can be to find space in a pub. I still argue that the screens inside and outside the beer tent are much better than being crammed in a pub. First and foremost I am Scottish, and I support Scotland. Going to Murrayfield is the main attraction.
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2 points about Murrayfield ticket prices:
1. I was offered tickets for the Scotland vs Wales game which would have set me back about 拢130 for just 2 tickets. Glad I didn't as the game was boring beyond belief. Scotland are just not capable of playing attractive rugby.
2. Tickets at Murrayfield for this years world cup are astronomical and who in their right mind is going to pay almost 拢100 to see a 3rd rate team like Romania?
Not me. I'll be watching it in the pub, pint in hand (maybe no alcohol could have been my 3rd point).
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110#
Well I was at the game and it wasn't at all boring. It was thrilling, and the crowd definitely played their part, silencing the ever-singing Welshmen. People really annoy me by saying that Scotland do not play attractive rugby. There were half a dozen line breaks that had the crowd on their feet, the noise was incredible. If Wales hadn't been so insistent on giving away countless penalties all day, we would have scored 3 or 4 tries. And why must you insist on quoting the top-end ticket prices? Constant negativity about Scottish rugby is counter-productive, so maybe Murrayfield is actually better off without people like you.
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I think this thread should be discontinued as all it does is give the people who can't be bothered supporting their National Rugby team (and the pro-teams for that matter) a forum to voice their pathetic excuses.
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I think having seen the game now, you can see that Scotland are lucky they sold many tickets at all.
That had to be the most disgraceful performance ever. I doubt that the crowds will return until the players show the passion and commitment missing since the 80s / early 90s maybe... The players today were complacent and some clearly out of their depth.
In response to Luckyrugger... I hope you enjoyed the game...
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Just like the Australia game at the tail end of last year "fortress Murrayfield" and the build up on how good Scotland are.......
Every Scotsman on the planet knows what this means: time to duck, here comes the big fall.
It only took 5 minutes today and it was over, I'm happy I wasn't there.
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Scotland is not a footballing nation - we have always been dreadful at football with the exception of Celtic's marvellous win in 1967.
The truth is, Scotland is a nation of individual sports excellence (tennis, golf, squash, snooker). Much as we'd like to be, we have never been any good at any team games. Sadly, this contradicts our national perception of ourselves as neighbourly, sharing, left-leaning citizens. So we continue to ignore regular excellence in these fields and churn out hours of dreary, low-standard football on the telly.
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I used to have passion about Scottish Rugby. However about a decade ago when players went for money (as professional em, "rugby players" have to) they conveniently lost the notion that if they get paid as professionals they really should perform like professionals at national level.
The real passion of being AWARDED a country cap has gone - these unfocused clowns were too busy with talk of big contracts out of Scotland today.
I won't pay to see worse then mediocre rugby at obscene prices (brilliant for drunk corporate fatties) and I would guess there are many like me. If you want to run a business get rid of the non performing - e.g. the present squad - who don't even merit the Scottish shirt.
Itallleeeeeeeee............ they make motorcycles - not good ones but ones to be passionate about. Oh and they can play rugby, not well, but they have a passion - get the picture?
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