Do believe the hype
- 18 Mar 07, 10:30 AM
Cardiff - James Hook's outstanding display against England has given new hope to a Wales team that had looked bereft of it for much of the Six Nations.
But it has also provided coach Gareth Jenkins with a rather tricky selection dilemma in the very near future.
In October, Jenkins .
And that decision, which few argued with at the time, is starting to look like an albatross around the coach's neck.
Jones, a key player in the Welsh Grand Slam of 2005, has looked well short of his best in this year's tournament, and the case for moving Hook to fly-half had become something of a cause c茅l猫bre.
A broken wrist for Jones gave Hook the opportunity and the 21-year-old, , grabbed it with both hands.
Hook looked to the manner born as he ran the game for Wales. His kicking from hand was outstanding, but his ability to spot and exploit a gap was what really impressed.
The Ospreys star had played outside Jones at number 12 in Wales' previous Championship games this season, but it was clear to anyone who watched Saturday's match that Hook is a natural number 10.
Jenkins , and now he must work out what to do with this most pivotal of positions before the World Cup.
Wales have a summer tour to Australia and a handful of warm-up games before the serious action gets under way in France, so the team Jenkins announces for the first Test against the Wallabies on 26 May will be instructive.
But one word of warning to Hook. The last Wales player to turn in a match-winning performance against England in Cardiff was a certain .
Henson, currently recovering from a knee injury, has struggled to hit the same heights since that match-winning kick two years ago, and is a long way from the Wales team after an indifferent season with the Ospreys.
By the way, Millennium Stadium with the roof closed really was something special - probably the most electric atmosphere I've ever experienced at a sporting occasion.
And I've been to Selhurst Park.
Wales 27-18 England
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Personally I thought appointing Stephen Jones captain come what may was a mistake from the beginning. There are enough leaders in Wales' squad these days that Jenkins could pick his best XV and select a match day captain from it. I've no objection to Jones being squad captain but no player should be automatically in the team.
I've never been a fan of the modern fascination with the rugby captain and in this Wales squad I don't think there's a single player so head and shoulders above other members of the squad as to automatically justify selection. Perhaps Martyn Williams but we are incredibly short of depth at 7.
I do believe in horses for courses to some extent and whilst Hook has been impressive I still would've gone for Stephen Jones against Ireland and France. He is still a better game manager but Hook is closing the gap in that facet too. I'm living in New Zealand now and this reminds me of Mehrtens handing over eventually to Carter. At some point Stephen Jones' excellent career as a starter is going to be cut short by the younger man. On the evidence of this 6N perhaps the World Cup is that time.
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100% agree with the statement about the atmosphere! I would like to add that James Hook should be at 10 if both him and Stephen Jones are fit (at the moment) due to Jones poor form however he has been a good servant to Wales over the years and we shouldnt write him off because of two months of poor form. Maybe removing him from captain and giving it to Thomas wouldnt be a bad thing for him? Meanwhile on the Henson issue I think he should definatly be in the team out in France.
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Against Italy, the captain Stephen Jones at fly-half gave the kicking duties to Hook at 12. In my opinion, that says alot about Stephen Jones' captaincy. For me, Hook has the edge at 10 now and Stephen Jones is going to have to work very hard to get the shirt back. All Welsh fans of course would love to have Jones on top form, but he hasn't been in this Six Nations.
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You talk about gavin henson there but the difference with james hook is that it wasnt just that one kick in the 74th minute! it was every single second of the game, and all 22 of the points that he scored, a wonderful day in cardiff with james hook prooving just why he should be the new wales number 10,with no disrespect to stephen, hes been a great servant to welsh rugby but its the nature if this game and somone younger and more exiting is always going to be creeping up behind you to take youre place. As a welshman yesterdays result by far doesnt mean we had a succsessful chamionship and i would still rather have somone else rather than Gareth jenkins coaching the team, but this has truly been a good team playing badly during the championship and lets hope theyve got it out of theire system in time for the world cup!!
Cymru am byth!!!!
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I completely agree with the thinking behind picking the best 15 for that match and then picking the captain from the team selected.
Hook has done well so far when he has played 10, but he did have an armchair ride against an inexperienced English setup yesterday. He also needs to look around him for support whenever he makes a break and gets into space - he can't expect to do it all himself.
I can't wait for Henson to be back on form and at 12, as his distribution will help the backline even further. A Hook, Henson, Shanklin combination could be cracking.
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It is as simple as this: Stephen Jones can be given the remainder of this season, and the summer, to try to rediscover his good form. If he does not, then James Hook MUST become the first choice number 10. Whether Jenkins will be man enough to go back on his pledge is another matter.
Incidentally, other current international captains - McCaw, O'Driscoll, Ibanez, Bortolami for instance - are all indispensable, first-name-on-the-sheet players, and consistently come up with the goods for their teams. They are, therefore, highly unlikely to be dropped except through injury. So even if SJ pulls his finger out and manages to keep the no. 10 jersey, perhaps the captaincy should be handed to somebody whose place in the team is not under such intense pressure... Martyn Williams??
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(5.Rhodri ) "Hook has done well so far when he has played 10, but he did have an armchair ride against an inexperienced English setup yesterday" You obviously forgot that was also Hooks first six nations and he is also inexperienced having only played a handful of games for wales. totally with you on the 10 Hook, 12 Henson, 13 Shanklin midfield.
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I am all in favour of lauding the fanstastic Hook and I won't argue with the suggestion that he is our first choice No. 10 currently. But it was the intensity of our forwards that won it yesterday. I am sure Stephen Jones would love to have played behind that perfomance. We always knew we could perform like that. The frustrating thing is that level of intensity of play was an exception for us whereas for the likes of NZ it is absolutely the norm and nothing else is acceptqble. We have miles to go.
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Jones is a quality player, I think the captaincy should go to Martyn Williams, he is experienced and probably the only one guaranteed a place. If we had a backline of Peel, Hook, Henson, Shanklin, M.Jones, S Williams and Morgan for the World Cup I think we could challenge every other backline except the All Blacks in terms of pace, power and flair. Our forwards need to develop a bit more and will have to fire at the World Cup for us to succeed. We can do it !
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Hook all the way; no doubt about it, cracking player! He needs as much match time now before the world cup as possible.
Stephen Jones; tidy bloke but not going to take us forward, whether he regains his form or not.
Only question is, will Gareth Jenkins have the requisite testicle composition to drop his big mate?
Perhaps he can leave his emotions in Llanelli and lead from the top two inches instead, as Alfie puts it!
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Hook was really good and should stay at 10 it is hard because we all like Steve and know how committed to Wales he is, Neil Jenkins was the same type of player , but like Neil the best teams need a Steve Jones, and remember Neil won the lions game against South Africa from full back. It is going to be hard for Gareth Jenkins to come to terms with the thought of dropping Steve, but as they say it is a good selection headache to have, with 2 excellent out half鈥檚. It was a 6 nations of almost against Ireland with a totally different team that played yesterday then a desperate display against Scotland, then another almost display against France 3 tries to 2 then a really bad display against Italy, then an excellent game against England. We seem to have some bad luck all the way through and yesterday was no exception the bounce almost let England back in , and again it was the chip kick over the top, that is the 3rd try in 4 scored against us with the chip and run. We have to be more consistent and the English display is not far from that, the pack played well, but it seems they have to have a reason, and yesterday it was England, and the wooden spoon, lets hope that the mentality changes to just winning because they are playing for Wales, and we have had enough of other countries treating us like mugs and patronizing us there should be no more incentive than that.
Roll on the world cup no injuries please
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Hello, I thought that seen as tough Alfie was banned, Stephen Jones should have been Captain as he is a astonishing player to watch. I feel Gareth Jenkins made the right decision in making him Captain. However it is a pity that he broke his wrist! get better soon! I thought he did wonderful as Captain, but now that Alfie is back the band should be moved back too!
Also, I just want to say how much I love James Hook. I thought he would be another Gavin Henson (known for his kicking) but he isn't, he is actually a really good player and he held us all together against England. We wouldnt have won without him, and he will always be a hero! he stopped us from getting the wooden spoon!
I love Wales for ever X X X X
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Why do Wales always behave and select with such emotion? New Zealand, a country with many comparisons to ours, are the undisputed team in our sport. They are continually a magnificent side because they have strength in depth. To have this, you need to keep positions open on a competitive basis, and choose the players to challenge the team they face next. Right now it is Hook. He has earned it, and that needs to be respected to keep the strength in depth concept working. Hook evidently wants the No 10 jersey more than Jones AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Stephen Jones is a pro, an out of sorts pro, but a pro all the same. He will understand this more than anyone. Indeed, he took someones place before him. Its ok to do that. He is not sulking, crying, or putting his pride before his teams success. He knows he will be there to fill in should something go wrong, and that is still a huge psychological boost to the team (strength in depth), but we should stop talking about it like we are having the family pet put down in favour of FIDO the new puppy. It is not like that. It is more professional. The Welsh need to step up their mindsets.
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Terrific display all round. Forwards at last crashed into break downs, Hook sublime. But no player's place should be sacrosanct. I remember, and I'm sure Gareth Jenkins, does when the team varied throughout the Five Nations, as was, purely dependant on form. We now have a squad that trains together and whose members should be interchangeable. There is no disgrace in any player being dropped from a starting line up for someone who is in better form - the objective should be to field the strongest possble team.
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Shame Hook cant tackle or defend. Very enjoyable seeing O'Gara hand him off to score his try in the Millenium Stadium and not bring Robinson down yesterday. Amazing how many "legends" the Welsh turn out each season despite competing for the wooden spoon more often then not. Tiresome. See Henson / Shane Williams / Ryan Jones for further details.
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Jack ROG couldnt lace hooks boots see various big games for ireland
(wales grand slam game in cardiff
england grand slam in dublin
two lions tours)
when frankly ROG was dire
Hook the best 10 in europe bar none
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Hook is made so much better because of Dwayne Peel who is possibly the best scrum half in Europe, if not the world at the moment, he dictates play so well that he brings Hook into the game at the best times, which accentuates how class Hook is.
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#15 'jack' - bitter irish/english/scottish fan. lovely to see.
it's funny - we finish second from bottom but we're in a positive frame of mind. as a wales fan i'm sure i fell a hell of a lot happier today than the heartbroken irish, the head-scratching english & the uninspired scottish.
the win was not the most important thing in the world & in no way atoned for the four losses that preceeded it, but thanks to the boys finally getting it together we now have some hope for the coming months. & a lot of us can say that we were right all along, if hook had played at 10 throughout the tournament we possibly would have done much better.
brilliant to win by a good margin too rather than the usual 1 or 2 points. hopefully now we've laid to rest the psychological fear of playing england. we really smashed em, they looked like 15 clueless idiots for large parts of the game. we do need to sort out our defence when it comes to counter attacks tho...
england probably have more questions now than they did going into this 6N. yesterday must have been a real hammer blow after the new 'young' side was lauded all week. where do you go from here fellas? can you feel your last finger slipping off that trophy?
call me small-minded, whatever. it always feels great to beat the english.
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Last comment absolute rubbish. Hook is a good defensive player, look at his tackle on Tuqiri against the Aussies; when he plays at centre he is admittedly not as good due to his tendency to drift. I certainly would not call Shane Williams and Ryan Jones legends, but the first has an astonishing tries per game ratio and the latter is an excellent ball carrier. Hopefully we can turn in a decent performance in the World Cup
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Don't beleive the hype! he had one brillant game. As did a fair few of the big names in the 6 nation e.g wilkinson one game doesnt make him the best on the planet look at dan crter who does it every game
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I agree with luke. One good game for Wales with their backs to the wall against an English side with nothing to win or lose on the day as 3rd place secured. So now Wales will go on about their great new dawn. You criticized England when we do the same, it takes more than one win to make side. The world cup will show us all what are teams are really made of.
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18 funkentelechy
"15 clueless idiots"
nice to see some people are as gracious in victory as in defeat!
"england probably have more questions now than they did going into this 6N"?
Different questions, not more. At least the questions are of a more positive nature than they were before.
England now have a good, intelligent coach, also a humble man, generous both in defeat and victory (like Gareth Jenkins but unlike Eddie O'Sullivan/Frank Hadden/you), he's started the rebuilding process that should have been started in 2003.
Only Italy have moved forward more from their starting position in this tournament.
Yesterday was more a reality check than a hammer blow, how can some of these promising youngsters get on in such a cauldron? As it happened, not very well but credit to the Welsh for that. Somehow, it seemed a far more important game to them than it did to the English.
Especially James Hook, at 12, he's just another centre, but he grows into the 10 shirt, as though he needs the extra responsibility.
Finally, "call me small-minded".
OK, I will.
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Great luck for wales with Stephen Jones' injury. Though i believe that there is another necessary change being overlooked. Phillips! The best attacking scrum half in the world!
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Of course it has to be Hook on form but I think the debate could extend to Morgan at full back. He seems to promise but I haven't seen him deliver this year. He gives the ball back to the opposition too often - as did the little man on Saturday
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What all these posts ignore is that Gareth Thomas made a much better centre than James Hook. The difference between yesterday and the previous 4 games was that Wales were going forward all the time. That put England under pressure which turned into the decisive penalties. A lot of the credit for this should go to Alfie who made some crucial runs from unpromising positions which took Wales over the gain line.
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This is all irrelevant. The bottom line is that he played well in a dead rubber tie. Actually, I take that back, it was a game Wales had to win to avoid the wooden spoon so I suppose there was some meaning in it. He is not even the best No 10 in Wales never mind the British Isles. Another year, another Welsh legend. I've had enough of it.
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The No 10 debate is surely now settled in favour of Hook. And to get the best from the boy Gareth Jenkins must be made to overcome his prejudice against Henson.
But worries remain. Not least the blinkers worn by Shane Williams. That we didn't win by a bigger margin yesterday is in large part due to him.
And then there's the pack . . . it went well yesterday, and Alun Wyn Jones just gets better and better (just wait 'til Ian Evans is fit again to partner him), but the front row - no matter who's picked - remains suspect, and the back row still looks unbalanced.
With a summer tour coming up and friendles, GJ has a chance to experiment, and maybe reconsider players he's ignored up until now. A certain Colin Charvis comes to mind.
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Jack, so so bitter.
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Whats that Jack on eh? Sure Shane Williams had a nightmare yesterday but Stephen Jones has had a nightmare season. I like Jones but nobody can tell me Hook'not the best 10 in Wales.
Defensively Wales looked so much more secure although I'd worry about the cutting edge providing by two bashers in the middle.
But I reckon that the Welsh forward display was phenomenal and along with the Irish v England at Croke Park the best forwards display of the championship. If only Wales had produced that kind of intensity previously who knows?
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i have to admit i read blogs from welsh fans criticising the english for celebrating their win against france! seriously is it one rule for the english and one for the welsh? i'm irish and have to say i thought the passion yesterday was amaxing. just one quickie- do wales only gear up for the game against their old enemy? hook was great though but remember the gushing about toby flood last week- where was he yesterday? no offence to the englsih as i'm sure he's a great player but pity jonny wasnt available-experience for these kind of games is the key!
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'Why do Wales always behave and select with such emotion? New Zealand, a country with many comparisons to ours, are the undisputed team in our sport.'
Absolute rubbish! The similarities between Wales and New Zealand only exist as far as numbers of sheep to head of human population! New Zealand know how to win, you do not. We do not have an inferiority complex to England (get over it and gorw up as a nation!), we have confidence as a nation and have a history of being brilliant at rugby which you don't despite a dillusion that a couple of years of a good side in the 70s seems to give the Welsh (its just like the pommes and their divine belief that one soccer world cup win in 1966 makes them the best side ever) - in fact Wales' record against New Zealand is appauling; as bad as comparing the Welsh soccer teams record against Brazil! Please lower your expectations as they are unlikely to be fulfilled for a long time.
As for Hook - please! he's alright but one performance makes no man - otherwise I would be hailing England's David Strettle as the best thing ever!
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Its great to see such interesting and positive comments about the current situation, especially considering our overall finishing position in the competition. I think this just goes to show how we have matured both as a team and as devoted fans alike, i.e. being able to appreciate that its not as black and white as the 2 points we achieved would suggest. Nowadays i like to think that we know to leave the witch hunts to the media than to join in.
I hate to admit it as i have always admired SJ's contribution to the welsh team, but i did experience a tinge of hope when i found out he was out for the england match. At the time this was not down to my thinking that Hook would do a much better job, rather more a case that the correlation between SJ's loss of form and promotion to captain to me was more than a mere coinsidence.
Likewise i think Gareth coming back in played no small part in lifting the rest of the team to a better performance. There are plently of great players in the world that, while would be considered the logical choice, are not captain material, it's by no means an insult to SJ.
But what to do now? I completely agree that one good game does not make a world class player, but i dont think we can be talking about Hook seeing as he has had numerous great performances for Wales, especially before the 6 nations in the kicking department. Hence the 'hype' in the first place. And now he has shown in a short period of time he has improved moreover since then.
Looking back on the Henson 'saga' i think alot of people are ready to treat Hook with kid gloves less that we all pile our hopes of glory on the young lad. However i think theres distinct difference between these two players, from hearing Hook in interviews he seems like he has his feet on the ground and has his focus on the game, whereas (and i'll probably get burned for this), Henson on the other hand seemed too preoccupied with being the Beckham of rugby, believing in the hype more than any of the fans, and seemingly lost the ability to put in a performance that mirrored is reputation.
So in conclusion i believe that Hook is the man for the job, with Martyn W as captain...in the ever improving quality of players in every position of the Welsh team i just don't believe there is room for sentimentality with a world cup coming up.
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I think it shows how little some people have seen him play if they say 1 good game. He scored on his debut in Argentina and rescued a draw against Australia in the Autumn and has often been great for the Ospreys when playing at 10.
Also the every year a new Welsh great is wrong Thomas and Harris were ok but were talked up because of how bad we were at the time. Hook and Henson (when on form) are two potentially huge talents which will be hard to replace.
Hook was subed on against the All Blacks and Hansen was quoted as saying if he was a Kiwi he would push Carter in the future.
Lastly, England were up for this match theres no need for excuses and England fan who remembers the 60-mid eightes will know how bad if feels losing to Wales regularly. England were outplayed and its as simple as that.
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Kiwi Bill, your comment about an inferiority complex to England is very uninformed. For a start, we do not consider ourselves inferior, it is about rivalry and long history between England and Wales which goes a hell of a lot further back than the game of rugby. You also appear to have missed the point that Wales and New Zeland share a love of the game of rugby which is simply not found in other rugby nations, and for that alone we desurve more respect than was given in your comment. Furthermore, the team of the 1970s wasn't just a random good team, it was a team with player which were even hailed in New Zeland, after the Lions tour, as legends, especially Gareth Edwards and Barry John. While we haven't always had a great team, we've always had a love for the game of rugby, and the world of rugby would be a much duller place without us. We respect your nation and your rugby legends, and love to watch the New Zeland team play, it would be nice if you could give us the same courtesy, seeing as we have some tallented and exciting players of our own. As for your comment on Hook, I totally agree, let's not get too excited based on one preformance, although he was fantastic on Saturday.
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Kiwi Bill's comment is disappointing. Most Kiwis know something about the game of rugby - please don't judge an entire nation on Kiwi Bill's ignorance. The Wales/New Zealand rivalry dates back to that epic first match in 1905, and Wales' record is only appalling since 1987 when more than three times as many game have been played as the period 1905-1987. If there had been international air travel for rugby teams in the years up to the war, no doubt Wales would still be close - they led the series 3-1 up to 1963.
There are many explanations for Wales' comparative demise since they ruled the world in the seventies. The point is, many of these opinions are aired by Kiwis in New Zealnd bars and clubs up and down the land of the long white cloud. The state of Welsh rugby matters to the entire rugby world - if it didn't, no Kiwi would bother wondering whether Hook is the next Barry John/Phil Bennett/Jonathan Davies/Neil Jenkins etc.
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It is easy, after one set of results, to come to conclusions about who is better than whom (teams and individuals). But the one thing that seems obvious to me, over the years, is that it is impossible to predict how the 6N will go. This year France lost to England, Wales beat England, France beat Wales. Where is the logic in that?! Of course the pesonnel and circumstances were different. But then, they are always different... I have given up trying to predict results! Hook was good. Peel was great. Catt was good, Ellis was good. Will this be true for the World Cup? So many other factors abound that it is impossible to say. So if you're Welsh keep your fingers crossed for the lad, but let's ration the plaudits for now (see the comment about Flood).
Just one other thing - great to read so many well-informed comments, but doesn't anybody know how to spell anymore...?
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A wonderful Welsh team performance with young Hook deservedly man of the match.The no 10 shirt is now his for years to come.
Eddie Butler,s red rose army were outclassed and were forced to play off the back foot.The ever biased Eddie must have cried in his milk as, in his eyes England can do no wrong.
The 大象传媒 coverage of the 6 nations was again excellent but why do we have to suffer the pompous and biased Eddie commentating?
Well done Wales!
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Kiwi Bill.......whats your problem then? undisputed kings eh...? marvellous..... 1987 wasnt it I seem to remember. Bottled it every time since bless....
I also recall Fitzpatrick declaring what great winners and losers the Kiwis are and how the rest of the rugby world loves them.... yeah right. Too many people like you Kiwi Bill....thats your problem.
Now that youve spent the last 20 yrs shipping every decent young islander over to your schools to give them a free education from their early teens you may well become the cupholders next time out.
Get back in your box pal. NZ used to be easily my 2nd favourite team....that mythical black jersey was special. people like you do it no credit.
Good luck to your fijian/Samoan/Tongan select...I mean All blacks.......oh, and your spelling suggests that maybe you didnt get as good an education as you gave rokoko and sivitatu...
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I agree with dai jones that we need to start picking our team with less emotion and having a more professional, even perhaps ruthless selection system.
Stephen Jones was made captain not just because he has a good working relationship with Gareth Jenkins but because he is a likeable, level headed character who is very popular within the squad. These personal qualities of his would allow him to accept being dropped and work harder to regain his form and raise his game.
However, the main opposition to creating genuine competition for the 10 jersey is Lynn Jones who seems intent on shuffling his team around in the most bizarre ways (Alun Wynn Jones at 6- STOP IT!). Hook needs to play the remainder of the season as the Ospreys first choice 10 (hopefully with Mr Henson outside him). Only then will we be able to accuratley judge who will be first choice for the world cup.
On a slightly different not, I just want to mention the great job that Neil Jenkins seems to done with Hooks kicking. Prior to entering the Wales setup, his goal kicking wasnt all that great but since the Autumn it has come on leaps and bounds. Maybe Neil should have a word with Nicky Robinson.
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Unfortunately Wales will never be a great Rugby nation as long as they only set they're standard as being better than the English! Year in and Year out we here the same tune. Yes it was a deserved win the other day, especially to avoid a wooden spoon, but lets face reallity, Wales shouldn't be in the tournement avoiding a white wash,they should be beating the likes of Italy easily not thinking "It doesn't matter as long as we beat the English!"
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I am so fed up with the attitude of Welsh rugby players.
This stance of "It doesnt matter who we loose to, as long as it isnt England" is a load of crap.
I dont know when they filled in Offas dyke, but it was a long long time ago. As a nation we have been standing on our feet for quite a while, so get over it.
Its obvious that we have some class players, and its about time they stared using the passion and commitment that they showed against England when they play all teams.
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Re post 40: We beat england, get over it, yeah england have been on average better than us for the last 5-10 years, but when i count how long wales have had the upper hand on england i dont count in years, i count in decades. just because you have only watched rugby long enough to see england succeed doesnt mean that they are the best thing since sliced bread, nor does it mean that they are any sort of benchmark that wales would waste their time comparing against. The reason wales likes beating england is the same reason every country likes beating england and thats because england players and fans alike are the most bitter and sore loosers in the world in every sport you care to mention.
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The writing was on the wall about how Wales would play from the New Zealand game.Wales were beaten in the first half when Stephen Jones was on and then when Hook came on they did alot better.Jenkins had to stick by Jones as Captain and play him.Loyalty can work against a team and it has this season.
Having said that England did not play well and they know it.Both sides have shortcomings which will be exposed in the World Cup.
If you were New Zealand and you had watched the Six Nations would you be worried,maybe Ireland but not the rest.
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Kiwi Bill, it's alright pontificating about how good New Zealand are and their record against Wales.
Let us not forget how a New Zealand forward threw himself out of a last minute line out, thus securing a penalty kick that won the game for New Zealand.
Let us not forget how New Zealand players have off the ball obstruction refined to an art. Taking players out who are just about to support the ball carrier.
You are a talented rugby nation but not a great one until you stop these underhanded, cheating elements of your game. Any great team does not have to resort to these tactics.
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I am afraid to say that Kiwi Bill is right - the welsh do have an inferiority complex towards England and indeed the rest of the world - it extends well beyond rugby - The Irish and Scotish are better liked, known and revered throught the world because they have got over theirs - come on Wales - lets grow up together - YMLAEN CYMRU
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why-oh-why didn't our forwards play like that all championship!!??
Still, nice to avoid the wooden spoon, nice to beat England (as it always is! :-) ), great to see James Hook on the front foot, but we still have a long way to catch up. Our backs made some great breaks - but back to school for passing/catching methinks! With that possession going forwards we should have completely buried them really.
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James Hook is now the man in possession and it's up to Stephen Jones to get back to top form and get his place back in the side.
Aside from selection was it any great concidence that with Gareth Thomas we looked more fired up (granted the occasion was much nmore conducive to this than the previous 4. Having Alfie as captain definitely gives us an edge and playign him at 12 even more so - all the talk of the fashionable option of having two kickers at 10 and 12 proved not necessary by both Hook's perforamnce and the 10 - 12 axis in the Englansd side where two kickers made little difference.
Roll on the tours and the RWC where hopefully the Welsh will carry on with this style of play and look to reach the last 4.
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Steven Jones has been a great servant for Wales and hopefully will still be an integral part of the structure of the team, however I am a great believer in if something is not broken then do not attempt to fix it. There was nothing broken about the Welsh performance on saturday so Hook should stay at No10, as should the rest of the side remain in tact. I was a great believer in Jamie not being dropped and still feel that he would have done no damage at all to the side, he was not and the team won so unfortunately a place on the bench is the highest he can hope for at this time and the same should be the case for Steven Jones.
It was good to see Shane Williams making those breaks as he did in 2005 again, although he was rightly accused of being greedy at times and his final pass being embarrasing on occasion. It will not be long before he starts geling again with the rest of the backs if he carries on in that vain.
Morgan has cemented his place and I feel that this has helped Gareth Jenkins as he says there is not much strength in depth at 12, I think this has just given him a choice of 3 Gavin Henson, Gareth Thomas and Jamie Robinson all of which would be an asset to any side and not a hindrance.
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"Another year, another Welsh legend. I've had enough of it."
I don't know if you don't read the press Jack but last week, it was full of talk about England's rising star number 10s in Flood and Geraghty and how it was going to cause selection head-aches because they were both so fantastic. Previously, Johnny played one game and Robinson came out of retirement and they were about to save the planet. Last year it was the awesome might of Sheridan.
And it's just the Welsh that do this you say?
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Re post 40, Ok wales lost the other games but on another day they could have beaten both Italy and Ireland. They also played right into scotlands hands and were probabley kicking themselves after that game. I think most of the welsh public realise this and thought well its been a close championship this year but as long as we don't get white washed it won't be to bad. The fact that it was England just made it a bit sweeter.
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Post 44 - If we are not a great rugby nation then who is? Do tell as Wales certainly are not - in fact I rate England as a better rugby nation! As for England being the worst at losing, well they are to a certain extent, but my god the Welsh cry every time the Blacks hammer them into the ground and don't get me started on the haka incident last November! The only sides the kiwi's have really respected in Europe for the past two decades are France and England - take that as you want but beating a young England side (who I would suspect will be beating Wales regularly in future years) at home and losing to Italy (again!) does not make me jump up with excitement about a side with any real potential on a world scale!
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Do believe the hype? We're a fickle lot in rugby. One good game and players are suddenly world beating legends then one bad game and they're past it or should be dropped.
Sad fact is that Northern Hemisphere teams are struggling to put two strong performances in on the trot; it's why a SH team will probably win the RWC. I blame it chiefly on club v country - our players our knackered.
It's also really very sad that other British Isles teams really only lift/peak their game when playing us (England). They really ought to have more ambition that that, else they'll never win the RWC. Let it go and join the rest of us in the 21st Century.
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Two facts and one query:
1. the Welsh pack won the game against England. Hook was magnificent but it is Jones' misfortune that when he played in the first five games his pack was going backwards.
2. you can't blame Jenkins for naming SJ his captain (even if it was rash to appoint him through to the World Cup). You have to pick someone who is certain to start, and in the autumn (when Hook had only just turned pro) there was nobody to touch Jones at 10. Of all the candidtaes for captaincy, only Martyn Williams is now an automatic pick, and he has made it clear he doesn't want to be captain. Keeping Jones as squad captain and picking a leader on the day seems the best solution.
3. Hook was picked at 12 on the grounds that it is a good place to give the young playmaker experience (both Wilkinson and Carter started their international careers there). But is it? Wales suffered from the lack of a footballing 12 on Saturday (Alfie's best position has always been 13). If Henson (who played well against Australia in Novermber and in my view has been unlucky since) is not picked, why not play Hook 10 and Jones 12?
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Post 44 - New Zealand not a great rugby nation!!!!!!!!!!!! because they cheat! Good grief I've never been to a match where a team has given away no penalties. All teams break the rules. I believe this is the reason Scotland scored all their points against Wales or were you robbed!
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Apologies to raise this, but one swallow does not make a summer. If the forward play had been like that for the rest of the six nations we would be looking mid to top table position with SJ still at 10.
The captaincy is a problem but a separate issue, Sweeney, Jones or dare I even say it Robinson could have done a decent points tally against England the way those forwards played.
Hook is awesome I really rate him, no doubt about it and that is the type of competition at 10 that this country needs. But saviour, to early to tell for me just yet.
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Wales and New Zealand share one thing - Rugby Union is their FIRST and major sport. A great rugby nation is determined primarily by their love and affection for the game, not by results exclusively. Wales and New Zealand hold the game in the highest regard. In England, for example, rugby union is secondary to soccer and other sports.
As for England being a great rugby nation, you only have to stand in Twickenham car park before a match to see what rugby means to them - MONEY! It's less about the rugby, it's about the money it can generate. If my last statement isn't true, the powers that be in England would have sorted out their structure to place England's national team at the pinnacle of importance (ala Wales, Ireland, New Zealand) years ago.
Make the changes now or face the future in fear...
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Flippin heck Natalie, I enjoyed your posting a great deal - made absolutely no sense at all but that doesnt matter. I particularly liked your reference to Stephen Jones as "astonishing". Astonishingly bad or astonishingly good?
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'...they should be beating the likes of Italy easily not thinking "It doesn't matter as long as we beat the English!"'
On behalf of the WRU Executive and Coaching Staff I should like to thank "Gaz" for his sound and innovative advice. Without his incisive analysis and gifted foresight I'm sure the WRU would go for decades satisfied with low level defeats.
If you believe that the supporters' gag of "as long as we beat the English" reflects the attitude of the Staff and Players at the WRU then you are showing your thought processes to be as shallow as the talent in England's squad.
Welsh rugby has ambitions that stretch far beyond the annual contest with our country's unwelcome stepfather. These ambitions will hopefully be evidenced in France later in the year.
I believe we have the playing personnel to satisfy these ambitions - evidenced in the series of explosive performances that won the GS 2005. The problems of the last few years appear to be in the management and in the coaching. While I pity Kiwi Bill for his simple and unworldly mind, I can go some way to understanding his reaction. To compare the Wales of recent years with the New Zealand of recent years is a nonsense. The gulf between these nations' respective attitudes tells year in year out on the field.
Wales needs to develop a more professional and more rigorous coaching set up to take in talent and turn out world beating athletes. Our front row could be harder and stronger. Our back five should be able to go for 80 minutes hitting men and breakdowns at full steam and still want more. Our back line should be so well versed in the basics that every offload makes its target, every man going forward has options either side and every overlap is exploited to make a showing on the scoreboard.
At the moment each of these things is exhibited individually and from time to time. When a few of these elements come together the performances are undoubtedly astonishing. The difference between us and a great team like New Zealand is that they do this every time. This must be down to the coaching.
It is time for our boys at the WRU, both playing and otherwise, to man up to the task and realise their full potential. There is no time like the present.
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Hook is a class player in the making.
Only with more games under his belt at International level will we know how great a player he will become.
Youth is no longer an issue at this level, you have to start somewhere (look at JW in the England side).
S Jones has had a lacklustre season but is a better kicker from hand and a better place kicker.
Going into the World Cup things don't look too bad for Wales. All that needs to happen is for the pack and backs to perform well in the same game.
As a slight aside I find it incredulous that a team can perform a lap of honour when only winning 1 of 5 games.
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Now, now girls, let's all be gracious in both victory and defeat. Anyone who has followed the 6N will know that Wales raised their game several notches against England, but in doing so showed what they are capable of. It came as no surprise as they had threated this kind of rugby before. The worry for Wales is that they will not be meeting England every game, so need some other motivation to raise their game.
As for England, I am interested to hear international professional players (from a highly competitive league) and coach alike saying the players are still on a learning curve! Am I missing something?
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With reference to comment 23, What a load of rubbish. Dwayne Peel is probably the best scrum half in europe right now. Phillips is more interested in money than playing for his nation. Peel scrum half for Wales for years to come.
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To those saying Hook has had one good game this season, nonsense. He had some superb runs against Italy and showed he could do some damage to a SH side last year against Australia. He's far from the finished article but he is a superb talent who, I sincerely hope, doesn't go the way of Henson and get himself a celebrity girlfriend and a deal to be the face of Matalan (classy, Gav!). Hook seems to love himself a little less than Henson - that said I would love to see a top-form Henson and Hook play together.
As for Wales' six nations championship in general, I thought the only bad match we had was against Scotland, who have only two or three genuinely talented players.
Losing almost all our games is obviously gutting and we should be making a noise about it - but we didn't get trounced by anyone. I can see no reason why Wales cannot get another Grand Slam within the next 2/3 years with the talent we have.
As for the world cup, New Zealand could put out their under 21-side and it would win it. I think France, with home advantage, are the only team who will get close to them. Ah well, roll on Six Nations 2008.
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Yes, surprised England jumped whole-heartedly on the inexperienced bandwagon after the game. Julian white/Chuter are experienced campaigners, Tom Palmer's been around a bit, so has Corry and Worsley. They seem to think they fielded their U21 team!!!
People seem to forget that Wales had some youngsters out there too! Namely AW Jones and Hook.
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regarding post 37 - daithai
Dai, what are you about regarding your comments about Eddie Butler being biased ?? You, like a number of Welsh think that just cause someone doesnt praise everything Wales do they are biased - total rubbish. If someone like Buttler wants to give an opinion that may not praise the Welsh or praise another team for something they have done it doesnt mean he is biased. Why are the Welsh ( and I am one ) so senstive ?! Grow up !
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Just a small comment about Shane
Williams.
He played well , did a lot of breaks .
It looked as if he wanted some of the glory for himself by not passing the ball That , to me , was a little selfish . We could have had two or even three more tries .
As Jonathen Davies commented , only he did know why he ignored players outside of him . Rugby is after all a team game.
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more to the point, eddie butler is a former welsh international so why you think his commentary is biased towards england is beyond me.
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Kiwi Bill's comments are unhelpful and unfortunate. As a NZer living in UK for the last 18 years, I've enjoyed experiencing the passion that Wales feel for the game and enjoyed some friendly chats with many Welshmen on the subject.
There are plenty of things that aren't perfect or laudable about NZ rugby, Messrs Hogarth and Lewis; however, let's make these arguments based on facts rather than prejudice. Firstly, although it's not the first (or last) time anyone's mentioned this - NZ's penalty against Wales in 1978 which won them the game was not the result of Andy Haden diving out of the lineout, deplorable though it was. The referee has been interviewed on TV and said he didn't even see it. Can we put this one to bed - how much evidence do you need!?
Secondly, people living in the Pacific Islands can work in NZ with relative ease. This was a trend that accelerated in the 1970's and Auckland is now easily the largest Polynesian city in the world. In fact, there are some Pacific Islands where there are larger proportions of native-born Islanders living in NZ than at home. I'm sure there are some cases where good Tongan/Samoan/Fijian rugby players have been enticed over but let's not assume that all of them were. For example, Lomu was born in Auckland and Rokocoko migrated with his family to NZ at age 5 - may be a "NZ talent scout" spotted his potential at a kid's playground in Nadi?
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I think we need to not get carried away with this Hook hype. As posted before, defensively he hasn't quite got it.... I can see the likes of Dan Carter, Giteau walkin all over him in the coming months. i just hope hes not another Henson. Wales cant afford him to be off form for the world cup.
Get Hook, Henson and Shanklin on form and FIT for the world cup we might push our way through to the semi's....
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Let us all bear in mind that it was the welsh pack you won the game on saturday. Yes, Hook scored the points, and the three-quarter line generally looked a class above the their English counterparts, but it was the consistent quality ball that the forwards, via Peel dlivered that allowed Hook to shine. Truth be told, if the Welsh Pack had played like that in every game, the Steven Jones would not have looked exposed and slow-witted.
Yes Hook appears to be a real find and yes, in-form players should definitely be picked ahead of unfit or out of form players with reputations for occaisionally playing big games - (thank goodness Henson wasn't picked. But lets not get carried away. The real triumph for the welsh team was that all the players actually looked like they wanted to play a game of rugby and performed close to their best for substantial periods of the game. The real dilema for the welsh coaching staff is not who to pick at No.10 but how to get all the players, and especially the forwards to play at their best for one game after game. Quick, quality ball and the ability to repeatedly get over the gain line is what puts opposing teams on the rack and wins games. Until the welsh team consistently delivers this i will refrain from jumping up and down about a good performance from one rising star.
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hook is a weed. against newzealand he will get hospitalised.
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Hook looks the part and if Wales are to trouble anyone in the World Cup, then they need something special and Hook certainly has it. Also, its clear that he needs Henson alongside him at inside centre. Another hypocritical issue on Gareth Jenkins.....he said rugby had moved on and changed since Wales GRand Slam, so why is it that the only success he has enjoyed is when the players REVERT BACK to the fast, furious offloading game so successful in 2005. Jenkins has seen the light at long long long last.
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Re: posts 37 and 64
Having played 16 times (6 as captain) for Wales, Butler is highly unlikely to be biased towards England is he?
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Hook has to be the Welsh number 10 for the summer internationals and the world cup that follows. My main comment however is how can Robin Mcbride be an international forward coach.I'm not a great fan of Gareth Jenkins but with his experience and track record i feel he deserved his opportunity BUT quotes heard recently re Mcbride from Gareth Jenkins and Mcbride himself include "He's a coach for the future" and "I'm still learning". What the hell is he doing there if he's inexperienced/still learning/one for the future!!??. We need top quality coaches with a PROVEN track record if we want to get the best out of a group of individuals that are without doubt the most talented group of players we have had for a generation.
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Hook was okay at the weekend...
To call him a legend based on a game when he missed a tackle on robinson for one english try and nearly handed them another when he let the ball bounce in front of him and Strettle stole it (though this only ended up as 3pts conceeded when england missed a 3 man overlap) seems premature to the tune of desperation... Surely Steven Jones hasn't become that bad?
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To Rhodri of Post 67.
I think you had better go on YouTube and try and find Hook dumping an 'in full flight' Tuqiri of Australia last year. He has it defensively, don't worry about it. In fact, list to me to multitude of people that 'ran over him' in the 6 Nations that has led you to believe that he will crumble against opposition. He is not another Henson, he is more mature (even though younger) and has humility in his talent. To be honest, can you imagine him on any advert? or doing modelling? No is the answer. Hook, Henson and Shanklin fit for the World Cup though would be an exciting prospect. With Gareth Thomas as back up for 13 as well as 15 would be nice. I don't like seeing 10s and 12s playing at 13 like we regularly had at the start of the Championship e.g. N Robinson.
PS Dan Carter's stiff arm will hand off any rugby player in the world. Dan Carter runs all over EVERYONE. He would probably hand off his own player if he got in the way, and seeing as it's New Zealand, he would get away with it without getting pinged for Accidental Offside. But that's another issue...
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Let's leave Shane alone. At least one of his missed opportunities was because he slipped. Another was a fingertip tackle away from a stunning try. He's one of the best players in the world at beating defenders by sidestepping. Hardly surprising then that sometimes he backs himself to do so. That's what he's in the team for. If just one of his gambles had come off, he'd be a hero. And as it was, he created mayhem in the english defence. So let's give the guy a break
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chris i agree - you dont want 10s playing at 13 - however, i should point out that nicky robinson has not played once this championship, it was his brother jamie (who plays 13 week in week out for the blues) playing at 13 at the start of the championship!
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It's the game that's the thing...
Living in NZ in the 1970s when Wales used to tour - it was great..they loved the game. When my family and I visited Wales they treated us so well because we had the common love of rugby. Their singing was amazing and I've always loved Wales after that visit.
It is such a shame to read such narrow-minded rubbish. NZ are a GREAT rugby nation. We love the game and welcome anyone from anywhere who feels the same.
Re: 38 ...We are a Pacific nation. Our players are not poached from overseas but reside in NZ. Why the sour grapes and bitterness. Our current team are great sportsmen and I am looking forward to seeing them play to the best of their ability in the WC just as I enjoy watching any sportsmen ( or women) at the top of their game.
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The success of Wales and Ireland teams are the result of the regional structures, the Heineken cup and the celtic league.
their progress comes as little surprise for those watching rugby regularly. They are also the two most exciting NH side to watch right now.
Wales suffered more than most from their injuries which showed in their results. With a ful dech to choose from they have a grand slam in them.
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Totally agree about the atmosphere in the stadium, was only my third game there but my first victory, last 2 visits were draws against Italy and Australia.
It was just an amazing atmosphere the singing, the cheering the celebrations at the end with random strangers it was brilliant.
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no 70 that is one of the funniest blogs ive read on here!lol poor old hook but i bet he wont be the only one to get hospitalised v the all blacks!
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Can I just say that it's so obvious Kiwi Bill is really English. If he was a Kiwi he wouldn't keep bringing England into the debate. Its a bit sad when posters have to pretend to be a different nationality.
As for Hook, he had a great game and only the bitter will say otherwise. His missed tackle on Robinson saw him slip just before making contact, and besides any fan with a knowledge of the game will know how difficult it is to stop Robinson in those circumstances. Agree that it is still early days with Hook, and only time will tell.
As for England the have some great 10's coming through. The two that played Sat, Lamb who completely outplayed Hook a couple of years ago for the 21's and also the much vaunted and hyped Cipriani. Give Hook credit where its due, and don't be bitter that you lost!
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lamb may well have completely outplayed hook for the u21s a coupla years ago - but dont forget henson completely out played carter at under 21 level, and also won the IRB world player u21 award and now look whats happened!
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Eileen has more common sense than most of the Kiwis (or pseudo-Kiwis, if Bill truly isn't one!) The shared love of rugby is just one of many similarities between our two countries (read Huw Richards' excellent Dragons and All Blacks for a considered commentary), but I'm astonished to find an All Black fan still citing Roger Quittenton's assertion that he didn't see Haden's dive in '78. Who on earth ever believed that? There is absolutely no doubt that the dive was the reason he gave the penalty. All kinds of complications were laid on in the days, week, months and years afterwards to allow the man to salvage some face, but even Haden admitted his ploy (hatched with the knowledge of the entire AB pack) was nothing more than an attempt to con the ref in the second minute of injury time (he admitted this on the 大象传媒 in 1989 on the eve of the Wales game that year). I'm all for admitting that New Zealand set the standard for the world at the moment, and that, in any case, two years after that Quittenton disaster, Mourie's team returned to Cardiff to give us a serious whipping, but for many of us our moral victory in 1978 is more important than our last scoreboard victory in 1953. I just hope I actually live to see a Wales victory over the All Blacks. It's far from guaranteed, but it could be much worse in that regard - at least I'm not Scottish!
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It really is typical Wales isn't it(and yes I am Welsh)a dire season is forgotten because they beat a poor England side(the Martin Johnson England side would have destroyed Wales on Saturday lets be honest).Wales have to play like that every game before they can be considered a decent side.The immature 'as long as we beat England'attitude is self defeating and simply gives Wales and their supporters an air of inadequacy(the average England supporter doesn't find the Wales game that important and will even support Wales against a host of other opposition).Kiwi Bill is right, NZ are the rugby nation because they want to beat everyone, a bad season isn't turned into a good one just because they beat oz for example, and yes Hook has potential but he has a long way to go,to regard him as world class on the strength of one performance which featured a number of errors is simply ludicrous.
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#70 "hook is a weed. against newzealand he will get hospitalised."
He already has played NZ in the autumn. He was one of the few Welsh players to come out of the game with credit IMO. Perhaps if you watched some rugby you'd be taken more seriously.
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Somewhere in here is a consensus that:
(1) Hook could be a great player, and has earned the 10 shirt for now;
(2) Wales has the backs to create and score tries, when they are fit, confident, and in their right positions (I prefer Henson at 12);
(3) Wales' pack played well on Saturday, but needs still more upper-body strength, more intensity, and more "OUR ball" attitude. Do this at pace, and calculatingly, and our backs will win games - maybe even SA & NZ.
As for the rugby nation debate - Wales, New Zealand, South Africa, Fiji probably express themselves fullest through playing rugby to a greater degree than (say) England. But I'm not jealous: if they love the same game, I won't deny anyone the right to be part of their own rugby nation.
Wales v New Zealand 1978: yes the AB pack dived, but Geoff Wheel had one of his nervous twitches (ask any ancient Swansea supporter) readying his arms for the throw, and his hand brushed Oliver's shoulder just before Oliver joined in the collective dive. Quittenden's eyes would have been drawn to the suddenly-waving arms, then he saw Frank Oliver fall down. Though it pains me to say it, I was there and that is how it would have appeared to the ref. New Zealand cheated, and the ref penalised the offence he believed he had seen. On that day, Wales should have been out of sight if only JJ Williams had taken one more tap of the ball with his feet and fallen on it, rather than attempting to pick up two metres out in front of the AB posts (well, 18-13 instead of 12-13).
And it is never just about one game. (Though until no-side in 1978 NZ boys in the pubs in Cardiff were still moaning about 1905!)
Should be a great RWC. Cymru am byth.
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What Hype? I'm sorry but lets come back to earth, we are all guilty of taking a player and putting them on a pedestal i.e. Gavin Henson for this is the welsh way.
So James Hook stepped up on the weekend and played like we have wanted our national No 10 to play, I will admit that I for one was proud for the lad and the fact all he touched turned to gold, but lets be diplomatic and not get blinkered but Hook's Midas 'Rugby' Touch.
James Hook and his talent has been unbounded, while playing for Wales at under 21 (or whatever level it is now) and Neath, he has been in the shadows for a while even though a brilliant player Lyn Jones has felt that this lad was not good enough for the Osprey鈥檚 even when the Osprey鈥檚 were struggling at No 10.
This is our problem management through out the regional system don't know what their best teams are, there are many players on form in Wales but them same old heads keep cropping up it's a shame but GJ will use his judgement call and play the people who he feels are 'his' best and not necessarily 'the' best.
The summer tour should include some of the younger players like GJ did last year in our tour to Argentina and allow our better players to rest for the fourth coming RWC.
I feel we need the youth within the squad, with players like Bradley Davies (Blues) Richard Hibbard (Ospreys) Morgan Stoddard (Llanelli) Aled Brew (Newport Gwent Dragons) Ashley Smith (Newport Gwent Dragons) just to name a few, when play for their respective clubs are aware and mobile yet need the international experience and I feel that the summer tour will provide not only these players with the experience but allow the Welsh Management team with more options instead of running all our important pivotal players into the ground.
As for the Management now we need to look outside the box of friends, too many favours have been paid out and it鈥檚 really sickening for the last six weeks. We need experience there and it鈥檚 time for the regions to step up I feel that we have all been a bit harsh on GJ but it cause of his blind trust in old friends, I think and feel that Saturday was more about pride for the Welsh team than being coached into winning as stupid as it sounds I feel that the team were fired up because of the 鈥楨nglish Famous Five鈥 not because of cutting edge training techniques and a masterplan of ingenious welsh design. (Which one was the dog I鈥檒l let the public decide) We need to bring 鈥榓dvisors鈥 into the fold and allow GJ to have the best support the regions can provide it will strengthen the team and allow the bonds of the club v鈥檚 country to for want of a better word bond, we should allow Mike Ruddock back to support GJ bring onboard coaches like Dai Young, Rob Howley, Phil Davies, Robert Jones, Wayne Procter (only if to work with Czekaj), Jon Humphreys, Lyn Jones and everyone within the Newport Management team cause they have worked out how to break down any team in every league within the European Spectrum.
So we know need to nurture our young and bring them through not put them on this Welsh Pedestal made of ivory for it destroys their attitude and love for the game maybe it鈥檚 our fault for being a rugby loving nation but now let James Hook go from strength to strength I feel we have lost Gavin Henson to the dreaded disease that is the downfall of talent I don鈥檛 want this to happen to one of the better things for Welsh Rugby for the last two years we got to stop pinning our hopes and dreams on just on player the last time I counted there were fifteen players in a rugby team and twenty two on the day lets look at the bigger picture and ask, 鈥淚s the present Welsh team world beaters or playing on a tank of Pride that can only last for only a few games before we search for the next big player to fill it back up?鈥
Am I wrong?
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I've got to say, does anybody know much about rugby on here?
Firstly, there is no inferiority complex with England. The only people who think there is, are the English. The reason we take great pride in beating you is because it justifies the reason that we decided to remain an amature sport when England went proffesional. You see, England decide to turn thier game proffesional back in........1968, I think. But, the Welsh decided to remain amature so that Welsh players wouldn't have to play international rugby under the name of England, much like the cricketers do. There for, we remained amature so that we could still play you every year. If the English rugby union..........Sorry, "Team England" (You lot still using that one)..........had its way, there wouldn't even be a 6 nations. There would be a northen tri nations, because all the Welsh/Irish/Scottish players would be playing for England. Anyway, how do the English react when they beat France??? From what I can remember Flood/Gerraty (If thats how you spell it), were the next big things. Its enough to say don't talk Hook up after one game (Even though, hes had two man of the match performaces whenever hes started at 10 for Wales). Gerraty had 20 minutes, and the English fans were talking as if he was a world beater. People should look a lot closer to home before bringing out statements like that.
I'm not even gonna start with the Kiwi comments. The only question I have for anybody from New Zealand, when are us teams from the 6 Nations ever gonna play a New Zealand team? You guys are a decent team, the Tongans/Fijians/Samoans are the real talent in you side. If the truth of the matter be told, the real problem with world rugby is that the IRB forever bends over when New Zealand/Australia/S Africa want to make changes to the laws. The big 3 Southern Hemsphere teams are slow destroying rugby. The longer that you are allowed to, literally, take players from another country. The longer that every other country struggles to compete. How can a team like Wales compete with a team who bring together the best players from about 4 different countries?
Every comment on this board is totally biased. Even the Welsh ones. Even mine to an extent. Why? Because non of us are ever gonna agree fully. I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that Hook should be Outside half for Wales, because hes an exceptional talent, and will one day be a total legend. Now, anybody who disagrees, fair enough, because I really don't care. The reason being that I'm Welsh and there for have pride in the players who represent me and my country. English fans believe Toby Flood is the next best thing. I disagree, because I'm Welsh and think that Hook is better. Irish fans thing Ronan O'Gara is the greatest thing since sliced breed right now. I disagree, because I'm Welsh and think that Hook is better. This is just the way it is. People should stop being so God damn bitter, and just accept that there are 6 Nations, and all 6 are gonna be patriotic. I have no doubt that somebody out there thinks that Andy Farrell is the best centre in he world!!!
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hear hear flooky 89! totally true! although there is a difference between saying our fly half is the best etc etc and totally slagging off another team!
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When you've decided between Jones & Hook can you send the other one up here.
Cheers,
Steve
Perth
PS. Anyone else you don't need too.
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Welsh rugby is living in the past. I'm tired of welsh people talking crap about the potential of this team. One thing is for sure, the welsh have a greater potential to lose a match , than win a match. So dont believe the hype, the welsh, or England "B" as they are also known as, will never win a world cup. They are full of hot air, just like the English. So forget England "b", it is all hype.
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Hook is an average player, with average ability. Just as the 6 nations is an average championship,unlike the tri-nation championship. Welsh players are just average at best. Forget Hook, in ten years time, he'll be forgotten, unlike a great player.
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England are crap too.
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to anyone critiscising hook- bloody hell is there any welsh fly half that'll get a bit of praise? hook was lauded as the ideal replacement to stephen jones! and now people are slating him. i'm irish but i think hook is fantastic but fantastic only goes so far whn you're playing in a team that is performing badly. congrats to wales on their win the other weeks. not because it was necessarily against england because i hate that celtic nations v england rubbish but because of the prevention of the wooden spoon! also to english fans england will be back. england now have time to get a decent team together and will definitely have a decent squad for the wc. although nz will win the wc!
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I agree with some of the posts on here saying that it's a shame the Welsh have to wait till they play the English at home before they raise their game. It was a cauldron in that ground on Saturday, I was there. It wasn't in any way hostile but there was a lot more desire, tension and testosterone flying around than any other international I've been to there (and I go to most of them). The English kids were upstaged by a significantly more experienced Welsh team with a BIG point to prove and an enormous home advantage. The simple fact of the matter is that Wales shouldn't have had a point to prove. It's sad that they have to rely on feelings induced by an almost unhealthy desire to beat one team in order to perform.
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Number 85 - R Turner
You couldn't be more right if you tried. I didn't think people like you existed in Wales!
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I thought this was a sensible discussion board? Some of the posters above are talking rubbish.
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What a wonderful way to finish the 6 nations - still trying to get my voice back after my visit to the millenium. Well done james, you and the welsh team did us proud. Well done Gareth, it must have been very difficult listening and reading to the stuff said and printed over the past few weeks. I have always believed in Stephen but as always a younger, faster model always comes along. For the past year or so, we've watched this incredible flyhalf develop. I live in England and it was great to go to work on Monday and have something to cheer about. As for Mark Rings comment on IC wales - wake up mate and smell the coffee. You always play the in- form player and no matter how much respect we have for Stephen, the aim is to beat all and on current showing, he is not in form and before you throw the "it'll be different when up against the experience of NZ and South Africa" at me, just look at difference this inexperienced player (Hook) made when he came on during Australia, Italy and English matches. Despite all that's been said, keep going Gareth, the true welsh rugby supporters really do believe in you and the boys. All we've ever wanted is for max effort and to date (apart from Scotland) you've delivered.
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In reference to R. Turners comments, hes typically Welsh. A total pessimist. We pushed Ireland all the way, we pushed France all the way, and beat England. Yeah, we are really awful. This is the sort of thing I hate from us Welsh. The glass is always half empty. In an answer to everybody telling the Welsh not to get carried away with Hook, we've got to. The only time we get optimistic, is when a new young talent comes through. Or, if we're constantly winning games. The squad that played this 6 Nations, has the same basis of players from the Grand Slam season of 2005. Now, tell me, can a team go from Gland Slam champions to a team that has had to take so much stick from its public and fan as our national team has over the last 7 weeks? I got to be honest. We didn't deserve to beat England. The reason why, because we turn upto games, even though the week before we slated, say Steven Jones for this, that or the other. Granted this is part of the game. But, the amount of slating and sledging this team has come under is pathetic. One credit for England, they never slated the players when they lost about 12 games on the bounce under Robinson. No, they stuck by the team. They knew that Robinson was always the wrong choice. The problem the Welsh public has now, is that the person in charge of the Welsh team is the man that the Welsh public has been calling for for years. So, isn't it overly hypocritical now for the Welsh public to get on his back, when all the WRU did was listen to the public. If anybody is to blame for the problems with the Welsh team, its the Welsh supporters. And, I'm just as accountable as the rest. So, how about us looking past the fact we had 'ONE' win against England, and look forward to the World Cup with optimism instead of pessimism, please.
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Anyone who says beating the ebglish is not high on the welsh priority list is clearly mislead. I would like to bet for centuries that us welsh have had a desire to beat anyhing remotely english! the fact that it took decades for william the conqeurer to conquer all of wales makes me glad! Only the welsh can truly understand what it means to beat the english! no -one else will ever be able to have the mentality to the english as we do! i think!
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Post 101 - Funny thing is that we still rule you! And while you may have had for centuries the desire to beat anything English, I think the English actually put those words into practise and did the reverse! I guess beating the welsh has always been part of our agenda - its just that we have always had much bigger fish to fry, so we don't pay so much attention when we beat a tiny province.
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Well said Flooky #89.
Can I ask one thing? Why are everybody hyping the All-Blacks to win the world Cup? It would appear that all they have to do is travel to France to pick up the trophy! I don't think I have read a report saying Australia might be in the final, do they have as tough a group as France or Ireland? New Zealand have "choked"(a term leveled at Ireland)in every World Cup since the first one.
As for Wardie #101
Youself and the "800 year" Irish, I say grow up.
And Dan #102
you only antagonize them, so grow up too.
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dan 101 can see why comments like beating the english etc etc is annoying to you! however your comments are only designed to wind ppl up which isnt very funny!and to call wales a tiny province is just plain stupid! welsh guys- if history is going to be brought up then you could say that ireland have had more reason than any to want to keep beating england, but we really dont think about the history anymore when we play them! the reason ireland got fired up v england at croke park was because of the french defeat and a desire not to lose there again, not because it was the "old enemy". rugby is a sport and aside from friendly rivalry and banter, politics should be separate! yes i like beating the englsih in the same way i like beating the welsh, scottish,italians and hopefully the frecnh at the wc! wales played well v england and i was glad to see them avoiding the spoon but going up like that for one game isnt enough! expect to say a big improvement though!
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im a welshman living in bristol who had been taking serious stick from my english brethren about the parlous state of the welsh performances in the six nations. however as a reflective observer {apart from the scottish game) it was clear that wales had been somewhat unlucky/ under performing in the first four games of the tournament. therefore from the initial news that sj was unfit to play against england i was quietly confident that here was a game that wales could win and win well....why....quite clearly the boy hook should have had the no 10 shirt from the beginning of the tournament and was itching to fill those hallowed boots. strength and experience in midfield at 12 and 13 with thomas and shanklin and a backline that given quality ball and space to run into were going to cause serious problems to the best of defences. all we needed was a front eight that played to their potential and boy did they do that! here is a balanced side that has the potential to do well in the rwc. the boy hook has undisputed talent but lets not forget that modern rugby is won up front and for me the key players in that game and therefore for the future were alun wyn and an inspired back row of williams, popham and jones. if henson can get his act together and fulfill his potential at inside centre then this is a side that fills me with excitement and encouragement not only for the tour of aussie but an auspicious wrc! bring it on!
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And yes, believe the hype. Hooky is the real deal. A player with that much talent and poise at 21 has not been seen for quite a while. Yeah, one man does not make a team but a duff fly half can ruin a team too.
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Peewi Bill #31 we are talking 6N here.
'A history of being brilliant at rugby' listen to yourself man.
Brilliant enough to achieve what exactly on the world stage? It's 20 years since you won the world cup 20 long long years an eternity for a country with such an over blow view their place in rugby. As for the lowering of Walsh or any other countries 'expectations' for the WC. I suggest you in the context of the WC should be lowering your expectations you are after all (and taking into consideration 'A history of being brilliant at rugby') the worst performers in WC history.
When I think NZ rugby I think:
Of that Spear tackle, sorry I just can't get it out of my mind. I see an AB and I can't help but think to what extent will they go to win.
Having the arrogance to place your teams pre match song and dance routine above the National anthem of a nation that welcomed you as guests, Then sulking and performing the thing in the changing room like petulant children. I'm sure you though this was 'brilliant' too.
Oh I almost forgot the vist the AB's made to Ireland for the first time after the spear tackle when you were too chicken to field Tana Umaga.
You have a history but I don't think much of it
Now go away and post to some no brain AB's site.
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Re: No 107
Your comments are very sad.
Is having an opinion about the 6 nations is only open to those from these countries ?? I see that Sean Fitzpatrick has a regular column in the Times which most people seem to be interested in reading.
Where has all this venom come from to be directed at the ABs? I think that you have shown yourself up by making so much noise about NZ. You are obviously jealous of the talent and BRILLIANCE which they have consistantly shown over the last 80 years or so.
When you think of NZ you think of spear tackles ... rugby is not a non-contact sport.
As for the 'arogance' you talk of concerning the haka. This is a tradition which is for the players and nobody else. The ABs decision to perform it in the shed was not petulance on their part but more that they wanted it out of the way without any hassle so that they could get on with the game.
The haka is for the team and not a performance for the crowd, although usually most of the crowd enjoy it.
I am sorry for you that you don't think much about our rugby history and I hope that your opinion is not shared by the majority of real rugby fans of the 6 nation countries.
Your attitude sounds very much like a soccer hooligan's and I very much hope that you keep your insults to blogs and do not taint any rugby matches with your bitterness.
Maybe you should be the one who goes away and finds a site where you can post your inadequacies.
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Re: 107
If, as you say, we are talking about the 6 nations here - then why don't you get on with talking about it instead of posting infantile remarks about what you think about NZ rugby.
You seem to have some real problems there and I would suggest that you maybe have some AB envy.
Getting back to the 6 nations...and the original topic..Hook's pretty good but I won't believe any hype until I see Wales play in the WC. I think that they're in an intersting position and could throw up a few surprises...looking forward to seeing some good rugby and a great tournament.
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A lot of people on this blog are questioning why the Welsh should get so fired up for the English game... Have you noticed that the majority of them are English?
Why should we stop feeling this hatred (if that's the right word), if it is what our rugby team can use/channel into such success on the field?
Of course the English would like us to lose our edge, as any other team with a superior arch rival would.
If our team can do as method actors; remember the motivation they had for the England game and apply it always when they play the bigger rugby nations... Then we're in with a good shout in this world cup.
New Zealand, use the haka to re-find their motivation before every game, and it hasn't done them any harm over the years.
We should find our very own Welsh Haka and be world beaters again.
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I was at the ABs - Wales match in Cardiff and I was GUTTED I never got to see the Haka. Personally, I can understand the WRU's point but I think that to mess with what is undoubtedly a rugby tradition there and then was a bit un-necessary. The Haka, in my opinion is the perfect precurser to a rugby match...much more so than any song.
Back to the subject, Hook is a star in the making, no doubt. I just hope it all goes well for him from here. It's always a risk giving a youngster so much hype but if anyone can deal with it, I'd say James can. As an Englishman, I don't look forward to our boys lining up against him over the coming years, although hopefully we'll have some dangermen ourselves for you to worry about.
Good luck to Wales in the WC. I think you're due a decent tournament and where better to do it than there? I just hope my lot can pull some forwards together after Cardiff! Also, my girlfriend, who is Welsh says that there is a friendly between Wales & England coming up. I've heard nothing of it though. Can anyone confirm or deny and also, if it is on, where is it?
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